Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on March 06, 2003, 08:26:44 PM
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10 Bears
Two bets, $45 each one.
First bet:
Ths war will happen. Time frame for bet to be determined between us. I think it will be this Spring, but desert weather may postpone it till fall. You think "cooler heads" will prevent this war. I don't. I'll wager you $45 it happens. If I win, you pay $45 to HTC to cover 3 months subscription of the one TAS member that is in the Special Forces of the USA and is currently "in theater". If you win, I send $45 to Ronald McDonald house and provide you either with a receipt or have them notify you it has been received in you name.
Second bet. When the war does happen, Iraq (most likely Republican Guard Units) will use either chemical or biological weapons currently prohibited by the UN against the US forces. If not, it will be clearly shown on worldwide media AFTER the war that Iraq had stockpiles of these weapons that WERE NOT known to the UN inspectors prior to the war. In other words, that they're lying through their teeth about not having this stuff. I'll wager you $45 this also happens. If I win, you pay $45 to HTC to cover another 3 months subscription of the one TAS member that is in the Special Forces of the USA and is currently "in theater". If you win, I send another $45 to Ronald McDonald house and provide you either with a receipt or have them notify you it has been received in you name.
If, for some reason, the TAS member does not make it through in good enough condition to play AH, you donate the money directly to his family.
Well?
(Thought maybe you lost that thread or forgot about it.)
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no bad bet..
Already told ya that.
was that last paragraph for emotional appeal?
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...smells like chicken.
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WHAT?
10Bears:
My prediction, if your willing to wager, is that the Security Council is going to vote no on the latest resolution. Cooler heads in the administration will somehow coxes Pres. Bush to back down...
(From the "Yanks; sometimes I wonder... thread")
So, I'm willing to wager. Always have been. What happened to you? I said you're wrong on this, and I still say it.
Are you backing away now?
10Bears:
I’m willing to see the evidence. You seem to know 100% can you point a link to the actual evidence? Not circumstantial, has to be real evidence that can be used in a court of law.. not a couple of buckets of bug spray either.
(From the "Yanks; sometimes I wonder... thread")
You've intimated over and over you don't believe he has WMD.
I said I'm willing to wager on this as well. Where's the rock solid belief in your correct assessment?
I still say you're wrong.
When the war does happen, Iraq (most likely Republican Guard Units) will use either chemical or biological weapons currently prohibited by the UN against the US forces. If not, it will be clearly shown on worldwide media AFTER the war that Iraq had stockpiles of these weapons that WERE NOT known to the UN inspectors prior to the war. In other words, that they're lying through their teeth about not having this stuff.
Or are you backing away from your belief he doesn't have these prohibited weapons too?
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Nuke, the war is schedueled to start next Wed... France, Germany, Pootie-Poo, and China all said they're voting no...
10bears told us this back in January..............
And he said it again in another thread.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
was that last paragraph for emotional appeal?
No, it was simply common sense that if he can't play AH for some reason, you'd still be obligated to pay the wager. I'm sure his family would be able to make good use of the $90.
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They're going in anyway Toad.. they're going in..
Debates over..
You see the President's speech today?... he don't care about the U.N.
Blix gives his findings tomarrow.. the U.N SC supposed to vote next week unless the US pulls back the resolution. I suspect they'll vote no.
I feel nothing but dread...
Your not the only one that has a friend deployed...19 yr old Pvt Tory Jenson is also over there.. I've know him since before he was born..
Get ready for the "New American Century"....
sigh..
Secretly, you always wanted the New World Order didn't ya..
(as long as we run it)
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Originally posted by 10Bears I feel nothing but dread...
Get ready for the "New American Century"....
sigh..
Secretly, you always wanted the New World Order didn't ya..
(as long as we run it) [/B]
I feel nothing but satisfaction in the knowledge that we have a president that actually cares about America more than he cares about pandering to the UN
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Originally posted by NUKE
I feel nothing but satisfaction in the knowledge that we have a president that actually cares about America more than he cares about pandering to the UN
mby its not good example to compare, but 80 years ago in one country ppls say the same
10 years ago too in other country
and scenaerio repeat in bouth of this countries.
bevere
ramzey
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Originally posted by 10Bears
They're going in anyway Toad.. they're going in..
Yep. That's what anybody that's been paying attention has known for at least two weeks now.
So, you're admitting your analysis (wild hope?) was way off the mark.. no bet.
How about the bet on the chem/bio weapons? Still think Iraq doesn't have anything proscribed by the various SC resolutions? Want to wager on that?
Originally posted by 10Bears
Secretly, you always wanted the New World Order didn't ya..
(as long as we run it)
Far from it. I'm about the premier the US isolationist around here. Check my latest thread saluting Rumsfeld for starting to plan to bring the boys home. At long last.
So, there's some hope. I'm not in favor of this Iraq invasion, unless it is with specific SC direction and approval. But it wasn't too hard to read the face up cards on the table the last two weeks. Six CV battle groups? 200,000 men in theater? Betting you was money in the bank; too bad you wised up at the last minute.
Still, there's hope for the $45 bet on chem/bio weapons. Want to take that wager? Or did you realize the truth on that one too?
But, I'm not suprised that you're still as mistaken about me as you are about most stuff you post about.
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How about the bet on the chem/bio weapons? Still think Iraq doesn't have anything proscribed by the various SC resolutions? Want to wager on that?
No.. and here’s why. In two months I come back asking you about the WMD.. we’re talking nukes.. MASS program like you said. spin A will be Saddam moved it all across the border into Syria. OK.. that will be the pretext for launching an attack on Syria. Spin B: Well, they got to be around here somewhere.. maybe they’ve buried them deep in the sand. It’s only a matter of time before we find them. In either case the issue will be mute Your going to have people shooting at our troops that will be justification enough to lash out anywhere Chaney pleases. Like any war, toejams gonna get FUBAR real quick. You and I don’t know what’s going to happen. Giving the finger to the rest of the world might end up being a very very bad mistake. Pissing off people like Putin might end up with a very real world war three..
Bush claims to pray to God every morning.. he’s one of these born again Christians.. The born agains tend to read more of the old testament than the new.. It’s all about the end times with them.. Rapture..
Quote: “Does the Pope have moral authority?” --Bill O’Rally.
Quote: “When the war starts, we should lock up all the war protesters” -- Michel Savage speaking to millions of Americans on his radio show.
Quote: “What type of BOMB would Jesus use?-- Michel Savage
But, I'm not suprised that you're still as mistaken about me as you are about most stuff you post about.
You don’t want to retreat from South Korea sheesh... do you know anything about geo politics at all? And by the way, in the last year and a half.. Just about everything I’ve posted has come to pass. Oh ok Nuke’s right.. I was sure they were going to attack on Jan 15th.. The next date for the new moon was on March 3rd.. they didn’t attack.. maybe maybe there was hope. That hope is gone now.
Take heed of Ramzey’s words.. When the Germans invaded his country, most of the people in Germany agreed with it.
Naw that's a bad bet.. it's nasty.. it's ugly... I'd rather bet on football.
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Seems to me you've continually said you haven't seen any evidence that they have the extensive chem/bio weapons that the UN is specifically asking them to destroy. You don't take Powell's word for it, etc.
I'm saying I'll wager you on the chem/bio alone........ I think they've got all the stuff Powell said they did.
In short, I'm saying your totally wrong and I'm willing to bet you are.
Further, I'll stipulate that they will either USE the chem/bio against our troops in the coming invasion or large stocks of chem/bio will be found...... with the attendant world press to document same...... within a year after the invasion.
You're the one saying "there's no proof". Want to bet the proof is there right now but that the inspectors haven't found it in this "voluntary disarmament?"
Or are you finally willing to admit that Iraq HAS lots of the stuff proscribed to them by the UN resolutions? In other words, that Bush, Powell and Rumsfeld are right?
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Savage is the equivalent of your darling Zebb in my eyes.
I'm actually FOR leaving Korea. You got that wrong too. Your idea that "geopolitics" requires the US maintaining troops in other sovereign nations where the democratically elected representatives and the people themselves don't want US troops is ..... curious, to say the least. What does Zebb say about that?
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Placing wagers on a war date?
*shakes his head*
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Just asking him to put his money where his mouth is.
Doesn't look like he will.
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geeze 10 bears.. if he has bio weapons buried deep in the desert then what's stopping him from digging em up and using em? seems you are admiting that they exist and that weapons inspectors couldn't possibly find em... seems that the only solution is to take out the madman who is just waiting for the opportunity to use them. And...
I have been reading things you post for a long time and haven't seen any evidense of clairvoyance from you.... indeed.... your liberal doom and gloom is mostly laughable.
lazs
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Q: what does 10 Bears on a BBQ taste like?
A: chicken.
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Originally posted by lazs2
geeze 10 bears.. if he has bio weapons buried deep in the desert then what's stopping him from digging em up and using em?
Maybe we should demand he turn over his shovels of mass dirt movement.
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I have been reading things you post for a long time and haven't seen any evidense of clairvoyance from you.... indeed.... your liberal doom and gloom is mostly laughable.
lazs
Yo Laz.. you laughing now?... Pttttz Dweeb...
for Toad...
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You guys startin' the clock today, with victory declared and all?
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Nah, I volunteered to start the clock back on April 19.
There's a thread in here I started with "End of Hostilities" in the title.
The clock's been running.
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Pretty generous of ya Toad. Was it 30 or 90 days after hostilities?
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Betting on the word of a politician? Bad idea.
bowser
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AK, 90 days.
Bowser, no we're not betting on "the word of a politician".
We're betting on whether or not Iraq actually had WMD that will be found and verified independently.
I believe Hussein had WMD.
10B believed they didn't.
I did not base my belief on what a "politician" said. I read a lot, talked to some of my ex-USAF buddies and made an evaluation.
We'll see.
But don't worry; I'll be OK if I lose. It's not a million dollars or anything. Thanks for your concern, though.
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I didn't see the thread where the clock had started... but I assume it goes for our wager also Toad (or whenever u want)?
As far as I'm concerned, *everyone* was going on guesses. Due to that, bragging about any which way this turned out (and will turn out) is absurd.
"I was right, you were wrong" is the same as saying "Gee aint I smart - neither of us had any information, but I made a better guess than you". So I think it's silly to see or do any bragging on it.
It'll cost me, but I really do hope WMD turns up. And for selfish reasons. It just works out better for folks in our part of the world if this WMD stuff doesn't turn out to be a crock of ****. It'll end up being worth a lot more to me than the bet, that's for sure.
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It seems to work for Rush Limbaugh. He spends half his time going over his past statements and saying, "See? I was right."
:)
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I don't know why he'd need to... Everyone already knows that Rush is the kind of visionary that only comes along once every ten generations.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Bush claims to pray to God every morning.. he’s one of these born again Christians.. The born agains tend to read more of the old testament than the new.. It’s all about the end times with them.. Rapture..
If, for George W Bush, it is all about the end times, and the end times is dealt with in Revelations.... the last book of the New Testament, then he tends to read more of the the New than the Old.
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To me the bet was more about the old "put yer money where your mouth is".
There's a lot of BS slung around here; just one tiny little way to see who really believes what they're saying with the electronic ink.
Nash, of course. I figured you saw the thread. I'd never do something like that anyway.
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Toad,
I was curious this morning and wanted to remind myself how noodlesure you were about all these WMD I kick myself for not betting you on the first part.. that they would use WMD in the first hours of the invasion.
Our country’s credibility depends on you winning this bet. I want you to win.. But I based my prediction on a pattern of deception from Bush that goes back to the campaign of 2000. The tax cut was supposed to put more people into work not the other way. The $300 rebate was nice but the next year on line 27, they deducted the 300$.. I was expecting to get that. Turns out, that wasn’t a rebate that was just an advance. Tells us he’s the education President.. Has a photo op for a early childhood reading program for 300 million in front of all the cameras. Same time he’s doing that he cuts 5 billion from the student loan program. Tells us he supports the troops then cuts 15 billion from Veteran benefits. This guy is a real work of art.
I realize you want to give Bush the benefit of the doubt but is there a limit to the benefit?..
My God.. do you know what.. If we find out he lied about the pretext for invasion, what else did he lie about?.. 911?
Do you remember me making all these stipulations on the wager?.. Can’t be precursor chemicals that could be duel use.. Can’t be deployment systems.. Did that on purpose because I know how these guys will try and change the spin.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Our country’s credibility depends on you winning this bet.
LOL!
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Originally posted by 10Bears
My God.. do you know what.. If we find out he lied about the pretext for invasion, what else did he lie about?.. 911?
Yes he lied about 911... the towers still exist.
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Originally posted by GScholz
This is true.
Really? America's credibility hinges on TOAD winning a bet?
That's a good one!
Toad, I hope you realise what you have done to America by making that bet..... LOL sweet L!
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You can put that in your sig line Nuke..
BTW I'm d/l'ing DoD.. what are you doing?
173MBs.. this better be a fun game.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
You can put that in your sig line Nuke..
BTW I'm d/l'ing DoD.. what are you doing?
173MBs.. this better be a fun game.
I'm "on the road" sitting at a desk in a Holiday Inn with my new laptop..I just d/l AH, .... I have but only a mouse. I wanted to play AH tonight but did'nt have the energy to buy a stick.
Oh well........... I'll be home tomorrow night.
BTW 10bears, I wouldn't bust your nutz by putting it in my sig.
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so recappin - 10bears thinks the world/Iraq would be a better/safer place for its ppl and the rest of the world if we continued to sit on our hands as we did 93 - 00 ?
:rolleyes:
great speech on the Abe last night
wtg - Bush!
for those against this admin - blow it out ur asre - PLEASE!
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If I lose, I believe it will be on one of two "points" in the bet, not the acutal presence of WMD.
It's possible it may take them longer than 90 days. It's possible that there will be no "proof" short of Hans Blix opening a container of anthrax and dying on the spot in the presence of 1000 UN inspectors that 10Bears will accept.
But I think the WMD are there and if they're found on the 91st day I will cheerfully pay on the 90th but I'll still know I was right.
Now, if it gets into the 6 months or a year range...... I'll be looking at Bush in a whole new light.
But, as I've said, time will tell and I'm a patient man.
Geez, 10Bears.... you think a sitting President would look right into a camera and lie? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!. I share your outrage. ;)
What'd I hear last night on a recap? Something like "This President builds his speeches around "we will" and the last one built his around "I didn't". :D
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It's possible it may take them longer than 90 days. It's possible that there will be no "proof" short of Hans Blix opening a container of anthrax and dying on the spot in the presence of 1000 UN inspectors that 10Bears will accept.
Fact : The US went to war to remove IRAK´s weapons of mass destruction.
If they find weapons of mass-destruction (large quantaties that is) it was an valid war.
If they dont find weapons of mass-destruction (large quantaties) it was an non-valid war. In this case the U.S as an whole will suffer enourmously... What was your intellegence agencys thinking? yet reporting to the White house?
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"Now, if it gets into the 6 months or a year range...."
That works for me too Toad. The point is whether they're there or not... not how fast the team can dig them up. It's along the same lines as the "reasonable people can conclude" thing (wrt the WMD)... which you were fair with. So lets use the same standard for the timing as well.
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Maniac,
Who will make us suffer greatly?
1.)The UN?
2.)The nations on the UN SC?
3.)The terrorists that hit us with a 9/11?
4.)The EU through economic pressure?
Answers:
1.)No, it is an ineffectual knitting society.
2.)See 1.
3.)We've been hit and will be hit again, but while Iraq will be the stated excuse, it would have happened irrespective of our action there.
4.)Very doubtful, as the French and Germans have shown they have a greater loyalty to money than to principles. (which btw, I actually don't have a problem with as long as they are honest about it.)
Hussein has had em and used em repeatedly. He tried to/did get them again and would have employed them again.
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I still think WMDs will be found in a relatively short period, relative to the years the UN inspection team spent looking. However, even if they are never found, it won't prove they don't/didn't exist. It is a very large desert and I have little doubt that Syria, along with a few other countries, would love nothing more than to see the US embarrassed.
Regarding whether Bush was lying every since he took office. If/when the WMDs are found will that make every nay sayer here and elsewhere in the world liars? Be careful with the rocks when ya live in a glass house.
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They were used against the kurds years ago and during the iran iraq war.
Hussein HAD WMD's. Anyone denying it has a severe case of imbecility.
They could make them back then, they could destroy them for the international community's benefit, then rebuild them a year later.
You know, kinda like N' Korea and their nuclear program.
You can bet yer arse the US spec forces and the CIA are running around Iraq now, not looking for Saddam and his cronies but for the scientists and facilities that worked on the project. They are the biggest threat.
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They were used against the kurds years ago and during the iran iraq war.
Hussein HAD WMD's. Anyone denying it has a severe case of imbecility.
Nobody is disputing that he HAD the weapons, resolution 687 spelled out that he had to destroy them. As of this date, as far as we know, this was done.
Item: Saddam’s son in law said these weapons were destroyed in mid 90’s
Item: All the scientists captured so far confirm those weapons were destroyed.
They could make them back then, they could destroy them for the international community's benefit, then rebuild them a year later.
Sure but the point of this wager is I didn’t believe Saddam had massive piles of this stuff. I base this premise on many factors, the many deceptions the Bush administration has already demonstrated plus intelligence officials giving themselves wiggle room i.e. administration taking our reports out of context so forth and so on.
As far as placing a 90 day time limit, this is a wager.. Any wager must have rules and boundaries or it could go on forever and nobody would win.. Haven’t any of you guys ever played cards?.. Or gone to Las Vegas like Bill Bennett?.. I’m betting Bush is holding a pair of deuces in a game that’s jacks or better.
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Thats what makes the UN resolution so ridiculous. It was made *for* the stupid masses, aka the public opinion.
Every goverment on earth knows it is a futile gesture to destroy WMD's that can be rebuilt in a matter of months. And yet, when some nutcase develops them, all they do is play the public opinion game and hope that by doing *good* bussiness or acting as buddy-buddies with mr. nutcase, they will somehow escape being hit by said WMD's when the cheese hits the fan
Retards the lot of them!
What the coalition did in Iraq may well be the equivalent of the Penemunde raid and the Norwegian commando raid on Nazi rocket / nuclear programs during WW2.
The Mullah Kebob has been served, next up Kim Noodles!
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Nobody is disputing that he HAD the weapons, resolution 687
As far as placing a 90 day time limit, this is a wager.. Any wager must have rules and boundaries.... I’m betting Bush is holding a pair of deuces in a game that’s jacks or better.
As I recall, I asked for 6 months as the limit but you wouldn't accept that. To my way of thinking, if they're there at 6 months, they're probably there at 90 days but just not found yet.
But 90 days it is; I accepted that time limit. No other way to get the bet down. :D
Tell me this... if they find a big cache of WMD on day 91 or 95 or 170....... is Bush still holding dueces?
I'm thinking he'd have four Aces.
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Time will come today... Time!!!
tick- tock... tick-tock... tick tick tick.... tock... tock... tock....
time time time time....
Chamber's brothers --1966
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Just counted it off the calendar from this post. (http://hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85069&highlight=hostilities)
Bet ends 10 days from today.
Said Toad: "When the war does happen, Iraq (most likely Republican Guard Units) will use either chemical or biological weapons currently prohibited by the UN against the US forces. If not, it will be clearly shown on worldwide media AFTER the war that Iraq had stockpiles of these weapons that WERE NOT known to the UN inspectors prior to the war. In other words, that they're lying through their teeth about not having this stuff."
Curious to know what yer thoughts are on the matter at this point Toad. Is it still "hasn't been enough time" or is that beginning to change some?
Yours and mine's bet ends 100 days from now, correct? (we tacked on an additional 3 months if I remember that right).
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Man, if only we could all be as good at guessing as 10bears is! Super Duper 10bears!
SOB
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haha toad
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You mean they didn't find any WMD yet!!??? What the...
bowser
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Liberals....sad that your only hope is for the economy to tank and for us to fail in Iraq.
Oh well....this next year will be interesting....can't wait to hear the libs attack Bush....so much easier than offerring up real solutions to real problems.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Toad,
Do you remember me making all these stipulations on the wager?.. Can’t be precursor chemicals that could be duel use.. Can’t be deployment systems.. Did that on purpose because I know how these guys will try and change the spin.
This seems pretty precient now.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
This seems pretty precient now.
One entry found for prescience.
Main Entry: pre·science
Pronunciation: 'pre-sh(E-)&n(t)s, 'prE-, -s(E-)&n(t)s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin praescientia, from Latin praescient-, praesciens, present participle of praescire to know beforehand, from prae- + scire to know -- more at SCIENCE
Date: 14th century
: foreknowledge of events: a : divine omniscience b : human anticipation of the course of events : FORESIGHT
- pre·scient /-sh(E-)&nt, -s(E-)&nt/ adjective
- pre·scient·ly adverb
Or you could read STRATFOR.COM like I do, their pretty reliable. They’ve been having doubts about all this WMD stuff the summer of ’02.
Or you could do a goggle search of the hundreds of articles the past year, many intelligence folk stepping forward, saying how their information is being manipulated by the Bush administration.
You can relax rednecks.. nothing will come of this.. Bush will be re-elected by a land-slide. The majority of Americans will whoop an’ holler with ol’ Dubba he finally went over and kicked some ass. They’ll just shut these knuckle-heads up be asking too many questions... You want to know the real reason?.. Go read the PNAC white paper.. it spells it all out.. The United States and Great Briton would like to control the military and oil contracts in a line from Syria to Afghanistan.
The fact of the matter is... Their right!!.. It would be in America’s best interest. But why lie about it? They could’ve easily have sold this war based on the truth.. They could’ve sat down with us and explained exactly what’s happening here. American’s would’ve bought it they love drivin’ their SUVs.
Thx MT ;)
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This is awesome. It's supposedly up to the people who don't think there are WMD hidden in Iraq to show where they're hidden.
Spaketh Ari Fleischer in Pretoria, South Africa yesterday:
"I think the American people continue to express their support for ridding the world of Saddam Hussein based on just cause, knowing that Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons that were unaccounted for that we're still confident we'll find. I think the burden is on those people who think he didn't have weapons of mass destruction to tell the world where they are."
Huh?
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Oh oh.. let me clairfy let me...
"I think the American people continue to express their support for ridding the world of Saddam Hussein based on ...just because, knowing that Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons back in the 90's that were unaccounted for that we're still confident we'll find.
"I'll spend the rest of my life searching for those weapons" shouted President Bush from his golf cart
I think the burden is on those people who think he didn't have weapons of mass destruction to tell the world where they are."
WHAT?
"1 or 2 American G.I.'s killed a day?.. Pshaw!" exclaimed Sec. of State Rumsfield "more crack dealers are killed every day in drive-by shootings in any major city"
(close to actual quote)
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The truth of the matter is that those of you who oppose the action taken in Iraq, would not have supported Bush in anything he proposed.
The truth is that you guys don't like him, feel he stole the election and shouldn't be president.
I don't believe you have the integrity to simply state the above without disguising it with this policy or that.
Is honesty only for those whom you guys place in your political crosshairs?
Within the next year, we will all know the truth of this and other points of discussion regarding the current administration. If we find out factually, that Bush and his intentionally decieved the American people, then I'll be the first to shake your hand and admit my error in judgement along with calling for his immediate impeachment.
I remain confident however, that WMD's did, still do and most certainly would have festered in Iraq by Saddams hands had we sat and done nothing as the UN prescribed.
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The World hates you for it.
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What are your GPS coordinates?
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Originally posted by Yeager
What are your GPS coordinates?
you don't know how to use a map ?
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Oh come on Rude!
I supported the war with Iraq, but that quote Nash posted is undefendable! We were sold on this war as a measure to enhance OUR NATIONAL SECURITY DUE TO WMD.
Saying that "we" are just angry at Bush is just dodging the point. Don't you think we Americans should be expecting Bush etal to back-up the prewar rhetoric?
I'm not angry at Bush. The war was one of the few things he did that I supported. Now it seems that we were misinformed. Spinning that war as a liberation of Iraq is the worst kind of propaganda.
Asking people if they would rather have kept Saddam in power so he could persecute the Iraqi people is like asking "when did you stop beating your wife?"
The WMD need to be found (if they exist) .... PERIOD!
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There's an alternate truth Rude.
The truth of the matter is that those of you who blindly support the action taken in Iraq, would support anything Bush pushes and anything he proposed with knee-jerk regularity before even bothering to look into the underlying factuality of the policy or program using any third-party source.
The truth is that after the deep dark Clinton years, it's impossible to imagin that the golden savior of American could be in over his head.
I don't believe you have the integrity to simply state the above without disguising it with this policy or that.
Is honesty only for those whom you guys place in your political crosshairs, like Clinton or any other Dumbocrat?
Within the next year, we will all know the truth of this and other points of discussion regarding the current administration. If we find out factually, that Bush and his intentionally deceived the American people, then I'll be the first to shake your hand and admit my error in judgement along with calling for his immediate impeachment. However, if there is even the remotest, unlikeliest straw to grasp that allows me to say, "See, they COULD be here, he PROBABLY secretly shipped them to France, then I will say the factual burden has not been met.
I remain confident however, that WMD's did, still do and most certainly would have festered in Iraq by Saddams hands had we sat and done nothing as the UN prescribed. However immaterial that may be to America's non energy-related security, world security (such as the threat posed by N. Korea or PRC), or the events of 9/11.
Charon
BTW, It's about saving the Iraqi people now, even at the White House. You must have missed the memo.
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Originally posted by Rude
Liberals....sad that your only hope is for the economy to tank and for us to fail in Iraq.
Oh well....this next year will be interesting....can't wait to hear the libs attack Bush....so much easier than offerring up real solutions to real problems.
If the Dems only had semen on a dress to attack Bush with:} Now that would be important....
:rolleyes:
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I agree with you. Your views are the same as mine regarding the war in Iraq.
My point is that the views of many who post here are not honest, but rather convenient. They hope against hope....for Bush to fail would only bring them contentment in the most perverted way.
Like I said before....I believe in right and wrong....good and evil. I want what is best for OUR Nation. I have believed, and until PROVEN otherwise, will continue to believe that Bush is honest and forthright....he will serve the American people's best longterm interests.
If proof that he has decieved or in any way manipulated the truth to serve some private agenda comes to light, then I will be the first to call for his impeachment....until then, I remain supportive of our President.
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I thought this post was about a BET made between 2 people not about WMD and every ones feelings on the topic of GBJ!!!
So who won the bet and did the other guy pay up?
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Charon....
Learn to comprehend what you read....
If we find out factually, that Bush and his intentionally decieved the American people, then I'll be the first to shake your hand and admit my error in judgement along with calling for his immediate impeachment.
That's as honest as I can be regarding this topic.
Do I view democrats and liberals fairly? Fairness has nothing to do with it...it's about ideology.
I believe abortion born out of convenience is wrong....welfare or other social crutches which destroy character and ambitions are wrong....gay rights....public education regarding send more money as the solution and many other differences.
I do believe in free medical care for those 65 or older is the right thing to do....I enjoy the opportunities and success I pocess due directly to those who have come before me...to abandon or burden those seniors should be viewed as a crime both morally and legally.
My views are based on hard facts, not emotion or political party. I'll say it again....if Bush lied or decieved the American public, he should be removed from office. The difference between myself and others here, is that I want what works for my country, not my political party or it's captains.
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Originally posted by Silat
If the Dems only had semen on a dress to attack Bush with:} Now that would be important....
:rolleyes:
He lied....if having a President that lies sits good with you, then that's your bag and you're welcome to it.
You cannot be so ignorant as to not realize that Washington is about power and only power. BOTH parties play the same game and guess what....we lose. Last time the republicans played their games to gain back that power....this time it wil be the democrats.
Instead of being angered at one or the other, we should all be angry with ourselves for letting them hijack our goverment in the first place.
Serving the American people should be paramount in Washington....I simply hoped that Bush might lean that way....until FACTS PROVE otherwise, I'll support the best we currently have.
Yes, I would have supported a Democrat as president if I believed he had the best interest of America in mind, rather than himself and his own selfish and adolescent wants.
How you guys could defend that man is beyond me.
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Been pretty busy with real life serious family stuff.
I know the time limit on the bet with 10Bears is close and it looks like he'll win it. And, of course, I'll send $45 to the Ronald McDonald house of his choice. I keep my word.
I remain pretty relaxed with respect to the whole WMD issue at this point, however.
I originally wanted six months as a time limit on the bet, figuring we'd see what we're seeing in Iraq right now. No matter how quickly you subdue their military, there is and always would be a much longer period of time before you can get cooperation from the common folks. Especially since SH isn't proven dead as yet.
However, 10B, in his overwhelming confidence, didn't want to wager at all, really. So, I took what I could get for terms just to get him to "put up or shut up".
So, Nash, in answer to your question: I pretty much expected the search to take much more than 3 months. I pretty much expected the "guerilla actions" we're seeing in Iraq now; in fact, I expected much more than what we're seeing right now. I also pretty much expected the anti-Bush crowd to start their drumming as soon as the war ended.
And they did.
As I said, time will tell and I never viewed 3 months as much time at all.
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Rgr that.
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Boobies in thread. :eek:
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the way i see it, no matter which way the 'bet' goes, Toad wins.
so does the rest of the world.
as for bush.. the guys a boob.
now, before yah all get yer balls in an uproar, lemme qualify that statement..
politicans IMHO pretty much have to be boobs to be electable. by that standard it ain't an immense leap of logic to come to the conclusion that bush is a world class BOOB.
thanks to the dubious providence of recent history, bush just happened to be the boob at the switch when the shidt hit the fan. and i would have supported any political boob that did the right thing after 9/11.. and the boob DID do the right thing.
see, i figure i get a chance to help pick the boob of boobs every 4 years. i await with anxious anticipation the next election.
after all, a boob in hand ain't necessarly better than a boob named bush.
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Can't say I disagree with the boob perspective, but I'm at a bit of a loss in seeing the logic involved as to how that makes Toad the winner either way here. :confused:
Btw... Where ya been?! Hope things are lookin' up for ya.
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hiya nash!
currently i'm retired.
it just sounds sooooo much better than 'unemployed'.
however, when the unemployment insurance runs out, my status will be downgraded from 'retired' to 'homeless'.
at whichpoint, i will spin that off to 'unencumbered'.
As fer Toad's Dilemma.. well, if there's no WMD found and Saddams been removed from power; I fail to see how that's all that much diffrent than WMD's found and Saddam still removed from power.
win-win deal, either way.
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wow... .... okay... to each his own I reckon. :)
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you know hangtime your not really considered and counted as unemployed till your getting no more checks in the mail. thats how we can say we have a 6 percent unemployeement rate(about 1 million people) when 2.5 million jobs have been cut in the past 2 years.
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As fer Toad's Dilemma.. well, if there's no WMD found and Saddams been removed from power; I fail to see how that's all that much diffrent than WMD's found and Saddam still removed from power.
Is this "American logic"?
Pffft!
And toads lame excuse for loosing the bet is priceless! :D
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
you know hangtime your not really considered and counted as unemployed till your getting no more checks in the mail. thats how we can say we have a 6 percent unemployeement rate(about 1 million people) when 2.5 million jobs have been cut in the past 2 years.
Fuzzy math should be a course.
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"Excuse" for loosing a bet?
Must be a Swedish thing.
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So if your pissed that the Americans went to war over WMD and no WMD are to be found, that makes you anti-Bush?
Gotcha.
yowser
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Originally posted by 10Bears
No.. and here’s why. In two months I come back asking you about the WMD.. we’re talking nukes.. MASS program like you said. spin A will be Saddam moved it all across the border into Syria. OK.. that will be the pretext for launching an attack on Syria. Spin B: Well, they got to be around here somewhere.. maybe they’ve buried them deep in the sand. It’s only a matter of time before we find them.
Wow!! :eek:
Not bad at all.
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*cough*