Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: blitz on March 11, 2003, 01:22:09 PM
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When Bush goes to war with Iraq without being aloud by a new UN resolution Tony is politicaly dead.
Will Bush risk that? I bet :D
Regards Blitz
When will Blix take care of the WMDs of the the big four?
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Blitz, some answers for you:
Leftists: The United States is taking unilateral action against Iraq!
Answer: So far, it's a 90-member worldwide "unilateral" coalition.
Leftists: We are in a rush to war.
Answer: An 11-year rush?
Leftists: Tough inspections can disarm Saddam Hussein without invading Iraq.
Answer: Years of inspections have done wonders so far.
Leftists: We should let the inspectors finish their job.
Answer: We did. They didn't. We will.
Leftists: Why fight? The Iraqi military is weaker than in 1991.
Answer: But their biological weapons and chemical weapons are much more dangerous.
Leftists: There's no proof of weapons.
Answer: We know they have 'em, we know they hide 'em, and we have tape recordings and photographs. What more is needed? An Iraqi rocket in Martin Sheen's shorts?
Leftists: If we invade, Saddam Hussein might use those weapons of mass destruction against us.
Answer: I thought you said Iraq didn't have them!
Leftists: But terrorists might attack if we invade Iraq.
Answer: Oh…so if we don't attack Iraq, terrorists will never strike again?
Leftists: We shouldn't go to war without a UN resolution.
Answer: ANOTHER resolution? What about the last 16 resolutions? Shall we use them as wallpaper? Or shall we use the same resolutions Bill Clinton used in Bosnia?
Leftists: We don't have a real declaration for war.
Answer: It's called "Joint Congressional Resolution #114."
Leftists: If North Korea has nuclear weapons, why aren't we invading them first?
Answer: First things first.
North Korea has not invaded two neighboring countries within the past two decades. Iraq did.
North Korea does not pay $20,000 in blood money to the families of terrorist murderers. Iraq does.
North Korea has not used nerve gas and mustard gas against invaded countries as well as its own citizens. It's merely starving them. Iraq HAS used poison gases.
Iraq, not North Korea, welcomes and houses Arab terrorists who despise Israel and its only ally in the world, America. There are more reasons, but these will do.
Leftists: European leaders are against the war.
Answer: The Reichstag wasn't attacked. The Grande Palace wasn't attacked. The Kremlin wasn't attacked. And the Jerry Lewis Lifetime Achievement Museum wasn't attacked. America was attacked. And besides, except for the tantrums of France, Belgium and Germany, only three European nations aren't willing to defend freedom. The entire rest of Europe is with America.
Leftists: The French don't support the war.
Answer: Oh…did they surrender already?
Leftists: Germany objects to this war.
Answer: Germany objected to Reagan's "attitude" towards the Soviet Union. Of course, they objected to our presence in 1943 as well.
Leftists: Belgians are against the war.
Answer: I can live without Waffles and ice cream.
Leftists: Russia doesn't support the war.
Answer: They are still angry over Reagan's brilliant Cold War victory.
Leftists: Polls show Europeans are against this war.
Answer: Polls show Europeans believe their freedom was achieved by endlessly debating in marvelous dining halls, conveniently forgetting their right to be pompous blowhards was granted with American blood, not fabulous wine and brie…
Leftists: We should build a coalition with our friends.
Answer: With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Leftists: What happens if we can't build a United Nations coalition?
Answer: Who cares?
Leftists: But the UN is the world's most respected governing body.
Answer: Not as respected as the US military.
Leftists: America has always waited until enemies attacked.
Answer: Now that oceans can't hold back enemies, pre-emptive war is forever a necessity.
Leftists: War will cost billions!
Answer: So…how much is YOUR city worth?
Leftists: President Bush says he's willing to violating the 1976 executive order forbidding assassinations of foreign leaders.
Answer: As soon as the ink is dry on rescinding that idiotic order, will someone please pull the trigger? The line forms to the right…
Leftists: Many Senators don't support Bush
Answer: Are you speaking of the Senators from Bordeaux?
Leftists: Tom Daschle says George Bush has a "credibility gap"
Answer: When was the last time we came to Tom Daschle for the truth???
Leftists: These problems didn't happen under Clinton.
Answer: Actually, they happened. But Clinton ignored them. Now, Bush will clean up his mess.
Leftists: But Clinton didn't start a war.
Answer: Unless his girlfriend was testifying before congress…
Leftists: Bush 1st should have taken out Hussein in '91.
Answer: That 1991 UN resolution forbade a march on Baghdad. Remember?
Leftists: Millions of peace activists are demanding we stop the war.
Answer: Millions of Iraqi's are begging for us to start the war.
Leftists: Thousands of innocents will be killed or injured.
Answer: That's a lot less than Hussein is killing right now. (Of course, there's only one man that needs to be killed…)
Leftists: Young Americans will die in battle.
Answer: Would you prefer they die in skyscrapers?
Leftists: Protesters have genuine objections to war
Answer: Just like they did in Somalia? Bosnia?
Leftists: People are coming from all over the world to act as "human shields".
Answer: Quick, hurry, before the bombs start dropping…
Leftists: This is about American Imperialism.
Answer: So which country do we own? What nation sends us their tax dollars? If America was imperialist, we'd already own the entire world. Who could stand in our way?
Leftists: This is Blood for Oil
Answer: The only blood is the Iraqi people tortured, starved and killed while Hussein builds massive palaces to hide nuclear weapons…all financed with Iraqi oil.
Leftists: This is a racist war.
Answer: America happily endorses a multi-cultural attitude towards anyone who dares to take away our freedom.Regardless of race, color or creed, we hunt them down and kill them.
Leftists: A U.S.-led invasion of Iraq is a great recruiting tool for terrorists.
Answer: Have fun recruiting people into oppressive misery as they enjoy their first taste of freedom.
Leftists: An attack on Iraq could seriously undermine and destabilize Arab nations.
Answer: Destabilize the region? Is that possible? Do you think? The sooner we topple these tlineoppressive 14th century terrorist regimes the better.
Leftists: Are we prepared for a multi-billion dollar occupation?
Answer: Were we prepared to liberate Europe and Japan in 1945? South Korea in 1953? Grenada? El Salvador? Kuwait? The Eastern Bloc? Afghanistan? Nations always love Americans when we rescue them from tyranny. The price of freedom is never free.
Leftists: Polls show Americans are more concerned about the threat from al-Qaeda than from Iraq.
Answer: It's not a war against Al Qaeda. It's not a war against Iraq. It's a war against terrorism. Anywhere we find it. One nation at a time.
Leftists: American opinion is against the war.
Answer: No, it's not. A majority of Americans want to fight now, not later.
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At this point the US has staked too much on the issue to pack up its bags and go home. Won't happen, no matter how the French and the rest of the SC vote.
The speed of the war, the destruction, how long and how much it takes to rebuild Iraqi, AND most importantly do they find the weapons of mass destruction. THIS will be what determines the long term political damage both in the world, and in home countries.
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Should've finished the job 10 years ago.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Should've finished the job 10 years ago.
Talk to the Saudi's about that one for us. Thanks.
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When Bush goes to war with Iraq without being aloud by a new UN resolution Tony is politicaly dead.
Will Bush risk that? I bet :D
Regards Blitz
When will Blix take care of the WMDs of the the big four?
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I dont think I'll ever understand why you put a smiley in there.
The impression I get is that this is all some big game to you Blitz. Some clever debating game where the objective is to outwit someone...make them look silly...or something.
Everything you say indicates that this is just your little BB war where you are attempting to argue everything...
Saddam is a butchering thug? Sure but so is Saudi, and besides US supported him before
Saddam has WMDs? Sure but so has the US (one of the more peculiar arguments)
Saddam has used WMDs against his own people and his enemies? Yes, but at that time he was a US ally.
Saddam is in violation of UN resolutions? Sure but so is Israel.
Saddam is a threat to his neighbours? Sure but so is N Korea.
Saddam supports terrorists? Sure, but so does Saudi.
Saddam tortures his own people? Sure, but so does Saudi.
So the fact that
Saddam is a butchering thug,
that he has wmds
that he has used wmds
that he is violating UN resolutions
that he is a threat to everyone
that he supports terrorism
that he tortures his own people
...is just buried in long pointless ramblings from you and your ilk, hidden underneath pointless comparrissons (because there will always be someone worse) and then conveniently overlooked as you post yet another idiotic post spiced with a smiley or two.
Meanwhile, more Iraqis die at the hands of him, and he continues to booby trap his oil fields, dams, cities...
The blood is on the hands of the likes of you.
I have no respect for you whatsoever anymore. Congrats, now its you and straffo.
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Blitz. I suggest we allow Blair an easy way out. Just remove all UK military assests from the region. Blair would be gone anyway.
My opinion, europe is out. This should be a US military action. If not then we should leave the region and let the nuclear weapons proliferate among the arabs and the jews. Let europe deal with it. Same with Korean pen. Just tell everyone if we are attacked and even think your involved we destroy you.
Perhaps Germany will invade France again.
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At least I'm proud to not be a christian torturer mister Judge.
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Originally posted by straffo
At least I'm proud to not be a christian torturer mister Judge.
You couldn't be anyway...you would end up surrendering to your captive.
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Is it an error Rip?
Or shall I use the "redneck" word ?
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Redneck and proud of it! I'll post pics of my big-ass redneck belt buckle if you wish :D
(And you know I'm just joking Straffo, I've stayed out of most of the France threads out of respect..)
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ahhh, good old copy/paste.
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Blair's political career is done anyway. Bush wont be reelected either.
But in 10 years, the conflict in Iraq will be seen as the right action at the right time. Both men realize this.
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send these to iraq........:p
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I'm sorry Rip I shouldn't have posted that.
In fact as you guess my reaction come from the abomination posting after you.
(and no Animal it's not a compliment for you ;))
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My post was merely a gentle stick poke, Straffo!
No world conflict or nations can part the friendship of an online friend! :)
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Lefitsts like David Hackworth Rip?
http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-nyhen243101485jan24,0,5355570.column
As he travels across the country, Hackworth told me, the vast majority of military veterans he meets see this war as a rotten idea.
"They've been there," he said. "They know war is not a blood sport, as cable news make it out to be. Cheney and Bush and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld - they've never stood and faced the elephant. These are the people who gush for war."
But don't expect the generals and the admirals to raise their own private doubts.
"Through the long eight-year bloodbath of Vietnam, not one general sounded off and said, 'Bad war, can't win it, let's get out.' They went along to get along. It's true again. The top generals are head-shakers."
Anybody on this board counts as a popsicle compared to Hack, but he doesn't seem to think it’s a good idea. Hey, you mean the most decorated living soldier can be against the war and not be some hippy freaknik? "Of all the medals that have been pinned to his uniform, it's the Combat Infantryman's Badge he's proudest of."
Or General Zinni and Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., who served in combat in Vietnam
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/10/17/zinni/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2002-09-16-oplede_x.htm
(good coverage of the Chickenhawk factor as well)
In an address recently in Florida, he warned his audience to watch out for the administration's civilian superhawks, most of whom avoided military service as best they could. "If you ask me my opinion," said Zinni, referring to Iraq, "Gen. (Brent) Scowcroft, Gen. (Colin) Powell, Gen. (Norman) Schwarzkopf and Gen. Zinni maybe all see this the same way. It might be interesting to wonder why all of the generals see it the same way, and all those (who) never fired a shot in anger (and) are really hellbent to go to war see it a different way.
Or
Gen. Wesley Clark, a former NATO military commander.
"If we go in unilaterally, or without the full weight of international organizations behind us, if we go in with a very sparse number of allies, if we go in without an effective information operation ... we're liable to supercharge recruiting for al-Qaida," Clark said.
Paint it as a leftist deal if it makes you sleep better, but in reality a lot of people have some serious issues with how this is transpiring, who is calling the shots, the reality of why this is happening, the competence and motivation of the doctrine’s developers (Wolfowitz, Pearl, Rumsfeld, etc.) and what it will cost both immediately and in the years to come, both in blood and in gold and world opinion. But again, I suppose Hackworth and Zinni are just some anti-American malcontents so we should just dismiss what they have to say.
Charon
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The inspectors didn't find anything.
After the invasion, it will be all to easy for US to frame Saddam - from breeding nuclear was elephants to turtle ICBM fart gas submarines.
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May 15th, 2003, when Iraqi civilians are treating the US infantry to home made food, and wine..this OT board won't have many liberals like yourself posting, Charon. ;)
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Originally posted by Hristo
The inspectors didn't find anything.
After the invasion, it will be all to easy for US to frame Saddam - from breeding nuclear was elephants to turtle ICBM fart gas submarines.
Ah,, pre-emptive excuses for being wrong already arising I see!~
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
My post was merely a gentle stick poke, Straffo! No world conflict or nations can part the friendship of an online friend! :)
!
I'm pleased to read that as somtime I've nasty the tendancy to ... eeekk I don't know an english expression .. "put all the people in the same basket" (mettre tout le monde dans le même panier).
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
My post was merely a gentle stick poke, Straffo! No world conflict or nations can part the friendship of an online friend! :)
Am I the only one that finds this rather humorous? :D
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So we now add Blair and the UK to the list of 'irrelevances'?
The UK? Irrelevant.
Tony Blair? Irrelevant.
NATO? Irrelevant.
The UN? Irrelevant.
Blix? Irrelevant.
So, Beetle, what were you saying about that 'Special Relationship'...?
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Rip, too much warmongering reminds me of what happened here 12 yrs ago. Bush is acting in much the same way as Milosevic did.
Anti Bush = Anti American. Enemy is no human. Their religion is evil.
So far UN has inspectors there. They don't find anything. You say US shouldn't trust the UN and deal what it thinks is justice ? With so much warmongering, will it be right ?
Bush is man who will stop at nothing. We just need a Gleiwitz radio station somewhere in Saudi Arabia and there you go.
The inspectors I trust. Bush - I don't.
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I'll be very happy to post, particularly when it's all over. I'm sure even liberals like Zinni and Hackworth (both more attuned to my liberal beliefs than say, Weazel) will be happy too. Hopefully that will be some time before 2010, with minimal casualties, economic costs and with the bright shining light of regional stability which is the main focus for the war and has been since the current Iraqi policy was being developed by Bush's senior advisors back in the 1990s. Of course, the families of the war dead will be none too happy, particularly if the war, as sold, doesn't live up to the press releases.
[edit: I absolutely hope for the best. Hussein is in breach, hard to really argue the point, so the action is technically justified. However, I think the whole end-game scenario is a bit of a coin flip, and by going it alone (largely, in the important ways) we have the most to gain but also the most to lose if the long term perspective falls short.
I also do not believe the war is being fought for the main reason being used to sell it - a direct threat to US cities from Hussein's WMD. However, in the future this might be an issue as leverage against the US over Hussein's actions in the Middle East (though Israel, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are by far more obvious targets). Nor does his cruelty seem to be all that important, since there will be no Nurmeburg if he just decides to leave with his millions. This typical "selling" irritates me the most, frankly. Same old same old, only on this issue people are going to die and be killed in our names.
Frankly, I can see the potential need for action based on the white papers developed by current senior Bush staffers like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz back in the 1990s. A friendly Iraq would act as a counter to a shaky Saudi Arabia and stabilize the world energy markets to a greater extent. However, this strikes me as a bit too much like our "creation" of Panama or the justification for the Spanish American War for me to be comfortable. What's more, people who think the worst, that it is greed motivated, cannot be dismissed either. Just as France will be a big loser, there is no question that the supporters will be major winners where production and infrastructure issues are concerned. IMO the greed aspect isn't enough to motivate, but there are people close to the administration who will reap these "ancillary" benefits.
And again, we have to see if this will be a short war (likely) and short occupation, and not a decade long Beruit-like occupation with continual terrorist attacks. Hopefully, once the Iraqis get a taste of a Big Mac and see Baywatch reruns on the dish Democracy will stick like glue and serve as a shining example throughout the region. I really hope for the best.]
Charon
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Originally posted by gofaster
Should've finished the job 10 years ago.
Right
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
Right
Regards Blitz
But the UN was against invading Iraq and deposing Hussein 10 years ago just kike today...
Stop your bullsshit blits its obvious the only position you hold is that the USA is wrong in whatever it's actally doing at the moment or did in the past.
You of course will deny this and try to lie your way out of it but it will only make you look even more idiotic and next you'll be telling us about scorpion bites you recieved in the desert while your uncle was shooting down F16s for the KGB in the vietnam war....
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Originally posted by Hortlund
I dont think I'll ever understand why you put a smiley in there.
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Can't help you if ya don't know the difference between a smiley and a sarcastic symbol.
Paul Wolferiz and Donald Rumsfelds neoconservative strategy of 1 nations rules the world outa the late 80thies may cause serious damage to Nato, friendship between America and Europe, UN and maybe relationship between America and UK.
That's why i put this :D in.
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Blair's political career is done anyway. Bush wont be reelected either.
But in 10 years, the conflict in Iraq will be seen as the right action at the right time. Both men realize this.
But sold very , very poor.......
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But the UN was against invading Iraq and deposing Hussein 10 years ago just kike today...
Stop your bullsshit blits its obvious the only position you hold is that the USA is wrong in whatever it's actally doing at the moment or did in the past.
You of course will deny this and try to lie your way out of it but it will only make you look even more idiotic and next you'll be telling us about scorpion bites you recieved in the desert while your uncle was shooting down F16s for the KGB in the vietnam war....
:D
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
But sold very , very poor.......
Regards Blitz
Cant sell green beans to a 9 year old... but they're still good for him.
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Originally posted by blitz
:D
Regards Blitz
Just like I said..... You are trying to evade and roadkill your way out of it.
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There is nothing in American experience or in American political life or in our culture that suggests we want to use hard power. But what we have found over the decades is that unless you do have hard power -- and here I think you're referring to military power -- then sometimes you are faced with situations that you can't deal with.
I mean, it was not soft power that freed Europe. It was hard power. And what followed immediately after hard power? Did the United States ask for dominion over a single nation in Europe? No. Soft power came in the Marshall Plan. Soft power came with American GIs who put their weapons down once the war was over and helped all those nations rebuild. We did the same thing in Japan.
So our record of living our values and letting our values be an inspiration to others I think is clear. And I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of or apologize for with respect to what America has done for the world.
(Applause.)
We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works.
We have seen these sorts of evil leaders before. We have seen them throughout history. And they are still alive today. There are still leaders around who will say, "You do not have the will to prevail over my evil." And I think we are facing one of those times now.
Remarks from Colin Powell, US Secretary of State (http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Remarks+from+Colin+Powell,+US+Secretary+of+State)
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would someone please point out to me the relevance of german or french postions on a impending U.S. led war against a mass-murdering dictator in the middle east?
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Hangtime you forget how important anfd influential France knows it is in the world... I think France has never gotten over waterloo and their utter insignificance and military failiures in the world since then.
Plus I think the real reason is that France is afraid they will be invaded by somedy while the US and Brit army is busy in Iraq and they wont be able save France this time around... :D
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Originally posted by Dowding
So, Beetle, what were you saying about that 'Special Relationship'...?
Dowding - Tony's beliefs are my beliefs - on one issue only - this war. Too bad there's so much "pinkoism" in the country these days. This whole shortsighted peacenik attitude might never have occurred under Thatcher in the 1980s. Clare Short can suck my... on second thoughts, I'd rather she didn't.
The pinkos have played right into Saddam's hands. It's pathetic.
Nice post up the top by Ripsnort. I guess I must be a redneck as I seem to accord with Rip on this whole issue. :D;)
I just wish this war would start and be done with before world relations get any more porked than they are now.
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Geez, heard Blair only finds support in 19% of thr Brit population. Blair may not be around too much longer, but
to him and the 19%. Your support of the USA position is truely appreciated!
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Icecream ?
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Originally posted by OZkansas
Geez, heard Blair only finds support in 19% of thr Brit population. Blair may not be around too much longer, but to him and the 19%. Your support of the USA position is truely appreciated!
Thats without UN backing - about what it is in this country if I recall.
The number that approve action WITH UN backing is much higher - but they wont tell you that on Faux News.