Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: miko2d on March 11, 2003, 03:08:54 PM
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Might as well post it here too...
No.6: Miko, please provide source for these cute accusations. Of course it couldn't be Saddam's lavish lifestyle and rabid rearmament program sucking up the money, it must be the U.S. starving children...
I've just spend time typing a post explaining that there is no starvation in Iraq - US caused or otherwise - as anyone watching relatively healthy Iraqi people on TV could see for himself, but rather a lack of critical infrastructure components because of US-imposed ban - most ceverely affecting the water supplies and farmaceutical industry, but it seems to bounce off you...
The whole thread is about the surplus of money on Iraqi's bank accounts, despite "Saddam's lavish lifestyle", etc. It is obvious that Husein did not spend or divert all that oil money and if food were an issue, there is plenty of money there for it.
If you do not care to read what I or others actually post in this thread, why should I waste my time digging for references for you? It takes time to search, you know, but what the hell. I will give you the benefit of a doubt.
Here are documents of the Defense Intelligence Agency proving beyond a doubt that, contrary to the Geneva Convention, the U.S. government intentionally used sanctions against Iraq to degrade the country's water supply after the Gulf War.
Go to this US government site Office of the Special Assistant for the Gulf War Illnesses (http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/) and do a search for "Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities" Check this declassified report:
DTG: 221900Z JAN 91
FM: DIA WASHINGTON DC
VIA: NMIST NET
TO: CENTCOM
SUBJECT: IRAQ WATER TREATMMENT VULNERABILITIES (U)
AS OF 18 JAN 91 KEY JUDGMENTS.
1. IRAO DEPENDS ON IMPORTING-SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT-AND SOME CHEMICALS TO PURIFY ITS WATER SUPPLY, MOST OF WHICH IS HEAVILY MINERALIZED AND FREQUENTLY BRACKISH TO SALINE.
2. WITH NO DOMESTIC SOURCES OF BOTH WATER TREATMENT
REPLACEMENT PARTS AND SOME ESSENTIAL CHEMICALS, IRAO WILL CONTINUE ATTEMPTS TO CIRCUMVENT UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS TO IMPORT THESE VITAL COMMODITIES.
3. FAILING TO SECURE SUPPLIES WILL RESULT IN A SHORTAGE OF PURE DRINKING WATER FOR MUCH OF THE POPULATION. THIS COULD LEAD TO INCREASED INCIDENCES, IF NOT EPIDEMICS, OF DISEASE AND TO CERTAIN PURE-WATER-DEPENDENT INDUSTRIES BECOMING INCAPACITATED,
INCLUDING PETRO CHEMICALS, FERTILIZERS, PETROLEUM REFINING, ELECTRONICS,PHARMACEUTICALS, FOOD PROCESSING, TEXTILES, CONCRETE
CONSTRUCTION,AND THERMAL POWERPLANTS.
4. IRAQ'S OVERALL WATER TREATMENT CAPABILITY WILL SUFFER A SLOW DECLINE, RATHER THAN A PRECIPITOUS HALT, AS DWINDLING SUPPLIES AND CANNIBALIZED PARTS ARE CONCENTRATED AT HIGHER PRIORITY LOCATIONS. ALTHOUGH IRAQ IS ALREADY EXPERIENCING A LOSS OF WATERTREATMENT CAPABILITY, IT PROBABLY WILL TAKE AT LEAST SIX MONTHS (TO JUNE 1991) BEFORE THE SYSTEM IS FULLY DEGRADED.
5. UNLESS WATER TREATMENT SUPPLIES ARE EXEMPTED FROM THE UN SANCTIONS FOR HUMANITARIAN REASONS, NO ADEQUATE SOLUTION EXISTS FOR IRAQ'S WATER PURIFICATION DILEMMASINCE NO SUITABLE ALTERNATIVES
.....
FULL DEGRADATION OF THE WATER TREATMENT SYSTEM
PROBABLY WILL TAKE AT LEAST ANOTHER 6 MONTHS.
Plenty of silimar info can be found on that site's search engine.
The Geneva Convention is absolutely clear. In a 1979 protocol relating to the "protection of victims of international armed conflicts," Article 54, it states: "It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove, or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies, and irrigation works, for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population or to the adverse Party, whatever the motive, whether in order to starve out civilians, to cause them to move away, or for any other motive."
But that is precisely what the U.S. government did, with malice aforethought. It "destroyed, removed, or rendered useless" Iraq's "drinking water installations and supplies." The sanctions, imposed for a decade largely at the insistence of the United States, constitute a violation of the Geneva Convention. They amount to a systematic effort to, in the DIA's own words, "fully degrade" Iraq's water sources.
Over the last decade, Washington extended the toll by continuing to withhold approval for Iraq to import the few chemicals and items of equipment it needed in order to clean up its water supply.
Representative Tony Hall, Democrat of Ohio, wrote to then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright "about the profound effects of the increasing deterioration of Iraq's water supply and sanitation systems on its children's health." Hall wrote, "The prime killer of children under five years of age--diarrheal diseases--has reached epidemic proportions, and they now strike four times more often than they did in 1990. . . . Holds on contracts for the water and sanitation sector are a prime reason for the increases in sickness and death. Of the eighteen contracts, all but one hold was placed by the U.S. government. The contracts are for purification chemicals, chlorinators, chemical dosing pumps, water tankers, and other equipment. . . . I urge you to weigh your decision against the disease and death that are the unavoidable result of not having safe drinking water and minimum levels of sanitation."
For more than ten years, the United States has deliberately pursued a policy of destroying the water treatment system of Iraq, knowing full well the cost in Iraqi lives. The United Nations has estimated that more than 500,000 Iraqi children have died as a result of sanctions, and that 5,000 Iraqi children continue to die every month for this reason.
Here too: Effect of the Sanctions on Iraq (http://www.womenagainstwar.org/fetterly.htm)
- Access to potable water is 50% of 1990 levels in urban areas, and 33% in rural areas. Prior to 1990, 95% of urban households had access to potable water. (Harper's Magazine)
- In the late 1980's the mortality rate for Iraqi children under 5 was about 50 per 1,000. By 1999, it was 130 per 1,000. The main cause is the outbreaks of cholera and typhoid resulting from contaminated water. (Harper's Magazine).
- In 2001, the U.S. placed holds on $280 million in medical supplies, including vaccines to treat infant hepatitis, tetanus, and diphtheria. The rationale is that the vaccines could be used to develop biological weapons. European experts state that this is impossible. (Harper's Magazine)
- In 2001, the U.S. also blocked water tankers to be used to provide potable water to people without it. The reason was that the tankers could be used to move chemical weapons. Experts say that the lining of the tankers would not permit this. (Harper's Magazine)
- Many desperately needed items are banned because they are considered "dual use," with the potential to be used in weapons production. This includes chlorine, which is needed to purify water.
- The U.S. has blocked the purchase by Iraq of important goods. One example is that Iraq was allowed to but a sewage treatment plant, but not the generator to run it, in a country that has been pouring 300,000 tons of raw sewage daily into its rivers, following the destruction of the Gulf War. (Harper's Magazine)
- Items the U.S. blocked in 2001 include dialysis, dental, and firefighting equipment. (Harper's Magazine)
How about this: IRAQ: The Sewage Treatment Plant in Basra (http://www.prairienet.org/cpt/archives/2002/nov02/0031.html)
The sewage
treatment plant in Basrah, a city of 1.8 million people in the south of Iraq, demonstrates the twisted nature of this system...
Twelve of us from Christian Peacemaker Teams and Voices in the Wilderness toured the plant accompanied by an engineer who explained the breakdowns. Where the raw sewage enters the plant, iron grills trap solid waste such as plastic bottles and bags to prevent them from entering the settling pond. At the top of the grill's framework sits a steel rake lifted by a pulley and an electric motor. At regular intervals, a technician lowers the rake which scrapes up the debris and dumps it into a waste basket. Some time ago the clutch on the motor of one system broke. Fortunately, the engineer's team figured out a way to make repairs that didn't involve buying a new part.
Both channels were kept open. However, a pulley broke. It has to be replaced and herein lies the tale.
The part, a small and simple piece of metal, isn't available in Iraq. The engineer tried to order it from abroad but was turned down by the committee of the UN that oversees all imports. He was told that he had to tender a contract to a foreign company for the maintenance of the entire machine, a job the engineer's team could easily do themselves.
The engineer put out a call for tenders and a Turkish company ... won the bid. The contract was sent to the UN agency for approval. Time went by and nothing was heard. Finally word came back that approval had been denied but no reason was given.
Repeated appeals finally produced the explanation that an American company had to do the work. The American company that won approval has a connection with a member of the Bush administration. The work has not been done yet
How about this: Gellman quoted Colonel John A Warden, deputy director of Air Force strategy, doctrine and plans: “One purpose of destroying Iraq’s electrical grid was that you have imposed a long-term problem on the leadership that it has to deal with sometime.” Gellman added: “It gives us long-term leverage.”
Happy?
miko
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"""US-imposed ban """ ??
i thought it was UN imposed sanctions ??
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Now dont ruin it.
I have been looking at this sentence trying to tie it to the US but so far I've come up short (aside from some general "when in doubt blame the US"-principle):
"The engineer tried to order it from abroad but was turned down by the committee of the UN that oversees all imports."
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blah blah blah miko...
go read here : http://www.iraqwatch.org
Seems the Iraqi's could import the water treatment stuff if they really REALLY wanted too, but they're too busy trying import components for weapons manufacture and stuff for saddams palaces.
In fact if I remember correctly, one of Saddams Palaces has a HUGE waterway system of canals, swimming pools etc, for entertaining Saddams bureaucrats.
And stuff like the Dialysis machine, if I remember correctly those units had components that could be used for constructing nuclear weapons AND Iraq ordered excessive amounts of spares of that specific component.
Read it up Miko.
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I think you are wrong about the dialyse machine .
It should be another kind of medical hardware like a cobalt gun ("canon à cobalt") wich can be use to cure cancer (radiotherapy).
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lol UN..what a bucnh of waste of human flesh...
yes blame US..we will take it....Bigger and bettr men the rest
Love BiGB
xoxo
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Originally posted by miko2d
Might as well post it here too...
No.6: Miko, please provide source for these cute accusations. Of course it couldn't be Saddam's lavish lifestyle and rabid rearmament program sucking up the money, it must be the U.S. starving children...
I've just spend time typing a post explaining that there is no starvation in Iraq - US caused or otherwise - as anyone watching relatively healthy Iraqi people on TV could see for himself, but rather a lack of critical infrastructure components because of US-imposed ban
miko
Why don't you blame Saddam instead of the US??
Ours is a reaction to his action. He has always held the key to liberate his country and his people.
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Originally posted by Lazerus1
Why don't you blame Saddam instead of the US??
Ours is a reaction to his action. He has always held the key to liberate his country and his people.
Because Miko holds a grudge against the US for helping the Mujahadeen kick the Soviets butts outta Afghanistan.
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Vulcan: blah blah blah miko...
Real mature. I was asked for sources, I cited them.
Seems the Iraqi's could import the water treatment stuff if they really REALLY wanted too
Right. All Hussein should do is kill himself and then we allow him to import all he wants.
but they're too busy trying import components for weapons manufacture
Or so we say. Did you hear about those Nigerian uranium fake documents? Guess who made that fake? Iraq? Nigeria?
and stuff for saddams palaces.
He has 20 billion in UN accounts he cannot buy any usefull stuff with, might as well build the palaces. Most population is out of work because of busted infrastructure and is living on issued food rations, so the labor is not distracted from productive uses. Consider it a public works to fight unemployment.
In fact if I remember correctly, one of Saddams Palaces has a HUGE waterway system of canals, swimming pools etc, for entertaining Saddams bureaucrats.
Is the water there drinkable? Iraw has no shortage of water. It's drincable water that is the problem.
And stuff like the Dialysis machine, if I remember correctly those units had components that could be used for constructing nuclear weapons AND Iraq ordered excessive amounts of spares of that specific component.
That's what we say.
Lazerus1: Why don't you blame Saddam instead of the US??
Good question. Not applicable though. I am not blaming US for exterminating iraqi population. If our president decides to exterminate iraqi childern or raise taxes or nuke someone, I may disagree with him and vote accordingly in the next elections but that is a normal politcs. People disagree. I had 8 years of a president I did not vote for, not I have one I voted for but many others didn't. We disagree with decisions and actions but one can never please everyone. That is fine. I do not have all the information and there might be a good case made for exterminating iraqis.
What I accuse US government is lying to US people. I care much less if they do what I do not approve than if they deceive me.
Iraqi's were not dying from hunger, Iraq was not buying uranium in Nigeria, Iraq did not amass troops on Saudi border, iraqi did not butcher incubator babies, etc. By deceiving US polulation the government denies our right to vote accordingly.
Vulcan: Because Miko holds a grudge against the US for helping the Mujahadeen kick the Soviets butts outta Afghanistan.
:) You really believe that, Osama lover?
miko
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Miko, thank you for being so ignorant, pig headed and just plain wrong. You make me feel intelligent, level headed and just plain right.
I wouldnt know what to do without you :)
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the man makes a post researched with evidence and you come back with a na na na na post.
pretty pathetic.