Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hawk220 on March 12, 2003, 09:47:36 AM
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Does America need a Department of Exercise?
Tuesday, March 4, 2003 Posted: 6:56 PM EST (2356 GMT)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- America's flabby population needs a federal Department of Exercise, a recreation researcher believes.
A high-level federal agency could direct and coordinate state, local and private efforts to get people more active, said Lynn Jamieson of Indiana University.
"We are in a crisis with a lack of controls," said Jamieson, an associate professor of recreation. "We are lacking a policy."
America needs a physical activity equivalent of the U.S. Department of Education, because the Department of Health and Human Services isn't up to the job, Jamieson said. A spokesman for HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson disputed that.
In at least 100 countries, a national agency funds and coordinates activities from walking trails to elite athletics, said Jamieson, who studies how communities organize athletics. America is far less centralized, leaving exercise to varied initiatives by government agencies and private volunteer groups.
Federal statistics say about 60 percent of American adults are not regularly active, and about 25 percent are not active at all.
Current federal initiatives have recommendations but no penalty for failure, so state and local programs are good in some areas but poor in others, Jamieson said.
For instance, programs of the President's Council on Physical Activity and Sports are voluntary. Even the council's best-known program, the school-based President's Challenge fitness tests, must be purchased by schools, "and no one has to do it," Jamieson said.
Initiatives by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are implemented through limited amounts of competitive grants, so programs might not get funding even if they meet the initiatives' requirements, Jamieson said.
In contrast, countries such as Australia have a minister of sports and an organizational structure to foster physical activity, said Jamieson, who spent two years studying Australia's system.
Tax dollars fund the Australian Sports Commission, an agency under the minister for sports. The commission encourages Australians to go out and play games, said Shirley Willis, manager of sports programs.
"We try to hit the fun message more than the fat message," Willis said. "What we've discovered is you cannot bludgeon people into feeling guilty. You can't shame people into being active because they are fat."
The commission provides funds for sports big and small, Willis said. Much of the commission's work is to create new customers for sports, including sports that don't get much attention, Willis said.
For instance, the commission provided seed money for Australian football's development of a kid-sized version of the game, helps to set up athletics programs for after-school care facilities. It even has people take portable skateboard ramps into the sparsely populated rural areas that Australians call "the Bush," to show kids who have never skateboarded how it's done, Willis said.
The commission also helps to set up in-school programs; in Australia, health and physical education must be taught in every school, Willis said.
In Washington, a spokesman for HHS Secretary Thompson, Tony Jewell, said Thompson is directing an effort to coordinate federal health and fitness programs that historically had worked separately. Thompson is insisting that the agencies work together, Jewell said.
As for Jamieson, "The good professor has not been paying attention to what Secretary Thompson has done in the past two years," Jewell said.
The federal Steps to a Healthier US initiative included $25 million for community-based pilot projects in fiscal 2003, and has a $125 million proposal for the coming budget year, Jewell said.
However, one U.S. expert doubts that a top-down approach would work in the United States.
"That's not our model for anything," said Judy Young, executive director of the National Association for Sport and Physical Education, a physical education professional group. Many Americans would agree that people need to be more physically active but would balk at having Washington give them orders on how to do it, she said.
What America needs is a change of individual attitudes, Young said. Even where Americans have abundant opportunities to exercise, such as walking on sidewalks or trails, they often don't use them, she said.
America's problem is in making exercise as normal a part of life as brushing teeth, Young said. "I just came back from the Netherlands -- even on bad days, they are playing field hockey, and when it's 20 degrees, they ride their bikes," she said.
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Just put a sales tax on food. That way you might be able to pay for a brand shiny new war and live happily ever after. :D
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Less television, fewer video games, decreased use of automobiles, and better diet would help, but who's going to stop that? Certainly not the government. I guess if one good thing comes from high gas prices it would be a decreased tendency for people to drive their cars as recreation on weekends.
Maybe there should be a law against owning couches and reclining chairs.
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maybe they should award perk points for walking to work, which can later be redeemed for a nice car which can be kept till you hit something with it.
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Fat people have fat kids, because they don't know how to eat right. Being obese is no way to live. No reason for it.
Ground beef is 50% fat. Your gonna have to run alot of freaking miles to burn off a hamburger. Weight lifting barely burns any fat at all.
I remember my parents fixing fried hamburger and deep fried french fries every night for supper. Its a wonder I'm not 300 pounds now. Discovered running my junior year in high school. Didn't lose much weight because I was always pretty skinny, but I did learn how to eat right.
I'll take brown rice over steak any day. And if you know whats good for you, so will you.
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Originally posted by davidpt40
Ground beef is 50% fat. Weight lifting barely burns any fat at all.
If you don't know what the hell you're talking about you shouldn't post stupid bellybutton statements like these.
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50% fat?
LOL, lets make soap out of it.
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where do you buy your beef, davidpt40? the local supermarket has 9%.
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Originally posted by hawk220
where do you buy your beef, davidpt40? the local supermarket has 9%.
And that is a lot.
50% fat ground beef would look like a brownish-yellow translucent blob of crap that only the most hardcore self destructive fatties would eat.
I know SOB would buy it.
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Yea, where do you get this 50% fat ground beef? The best I can find is only 25%. I’m gettin ripped off!
On a serious note, the American kids in school now are expected to be the first in US history to have a shorter life expectancy than their parents. 25% are obese (twice the rate of several generations ago) and only 1 in 4 get even the minimum amount of recommended exercise. SDS (sedentary death syndrome) will kill more Americans than Al Queda could ever dream of.
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High school P.E. classes should include one hour of Karate, twice a week. It's great exercise, and there would be fewer fights between classes.
People would have respect for each other, enjoy doing homework, and learn to live together.
The Principal of the school could be Japanese...and no one would dare to get out of line.
Altogether, it would make for a better school system.
Les
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myelo: On a serious note, the American kids in school now are expected to be the first in US history to have a shorter life expectancy than their parents. 25% are obese (twice the rate of several generations ago) and only 1 in 4 get even the minimum amount of recommended exercise. SDS (sedentary death syndrome) will kill more Americans than Al Queda could ever dream of.
Those who worry about their and their children weight are not fat - and if they still are, the government would not be able to help them anyway. Those who are fat do not worry about ther weight or a couple years it knocks off their life expectancy. So where is the problem?
Or does Lynn Jamieson believe that americans are some kind of a cattle herd and she has rights or obligations to manipulate and "improve" it? And if private persuasion and education does not work, let government coerce the people into her standards?
She wants lean people all around her and a lot of government coersion, let her live in North Korea for a while.
miko
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Leslie: High school P.E. classes should include one hour of Karate, twice a week.
That would contradict the curent policy of feminisation and emasculation of american boys.
You could probably persuade them to do it for girs, at least - considering how the males are rapists, etc.
miko
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I knew a girl who was a White Belt. She studied for about six months.
One night, a would-be rapist woke her up by sitting on top of her in her bed. He had a knife. She said to herself, "This is not going to happen to me." She got the guy off her and actually kicked him out of the window using a side thrust kick.
This is not unusual for six months training.
One guy was harrassed by another man on the road (road rage incident.) He pulled over and the man attacked him. The boy laid him out over the hood of the car with a punch.
Another guy pulled over to help someone who he thought was stranded on the side of the road. Turns out the stranded fellow had an accomplice, and they attacked him with a chain. He defended himself and sent them running.
Les
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Originally posted by gofaster
Less television, fewer video games, decreased use of automobiles, and better diet would help, but who's going to stop that? Certainly not the government. I guess if one good thing comes from high gas prices it would be a decreased tendency for people to drive their cars as recreation on weekends.
Maybe there should be a law against owning couches and reclining chairs.
And furthermore, high school PE should include 30 minutes of running 4 times a week, with Wednesdays as the "off" days.
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no way. That only works for certain body types.
that's like telling a marathon runner (light build) to be a wrestler
bottom line is the reason a lot of adults don't excercise is because they don't equate to a pleasurable event.
probably because they were forced to participate in sports that weren't for them .
if more schools would recognize this, more kids would WANT to excercise/play sports.
how many kids had a bad experience in sports/excercise etc.. and stay away from the peer pressure because of it.
if you have fun excercising (play) you'll probably continue to do so.. otherwise it's mcdonalds and prime-time TV viewing.
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LMAO Animal !!!
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Originally posted by miko2d
Those who worry about their and their children weight are not fat - and if they still are, the government would not be able to help them anyway. Those who are fat do not worry about ther weight or a couple years it knocks off their life expectancy. So where is the problem?
It's a public health problem, just like any other epidemic. Everybody ends up paying for it.
I don't really care about the adults. And I don't think the government is the answer other than funding for physical education for youngsters. This has been cut to very low levels in most public schools.
I think educating kids about health, including diet and exercise, is just as important as reading, spelling, and math. What if 25% of kids graduating from the public school system were illiterate? Would you say they're just stupid, it's their fault-- what's the problem?
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It's a public health problem, just like any other epidemic. Everybody ends up paying for it.
Yeah but how far are we going to take it. There's already too many restrictions by the government on what we can or can't do with our bodies.
I think you're right that the public school system is the appropriate place to deal with it.
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I certainly don't think we (general public) should be paying for what basically amounts to "lazy americans"
if they can afford to pay for their own care great..
if not, Darwin comes to mind.
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If you don't know what the hell you're talking about you shouldn't post stupid bellybutton statements like these.
Hey now, calm down. No reason to attack me like you attack a sloppy-joe sandwhich. Perhaps we could each post pictures of ourself, and then we would see who the huge fat slob was, and who doesn't eat meat?
I did get my figures wrong. 1 serving of the ground beef in my refrigerator is 47% of the daily saturated fat recommendation.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I certainly don't think we (general public) should be paying for what basically amounts to "lazy americans"
if they can afford to pay for their own care great..
if not, Darwin comes to mind.
Amen bro. Down with socialism.
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Fat people have fat kids, because they don't know how to eat right... I remember my parents fixing fried hamburger and deep fried french fries every night for supper... I was always pretty skinny..
Heheh here's a shovel. :)
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And why would a vegetarian have ground beef in his fridge? Did you actually go out and buy some just to spank SOB? :)
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TheWobble is back?
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I certainly don't think we (general public) should be paying for what basically amounts to "lazy americans"
if they can afford to pay for their own care great..
if not, Darwin comes to mind.
Who in the US pays for their own health care? If they have insurance, they cause increased permiums, increased HMO payments, and/or increased costs for employers who provide health care. Or, if they don't have insurance they get medical care anyway, increasing taxes for medicaid and increasing medical costs for everybody to cover those that don't pay.
Like I said -- it's a public health problem that affects everybody, whether you think you should have to pay for it or not.
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Originally posted by davidpt40
I did get my figures wrong. 1 serving of the ground beef in my refrigerator is 47% of the daily saturated fat recommendation.
No problem. By the way, you messed up on the weight lifting comment as well. Weight training is actually helpful in decreasing body fat.
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Ok, more snacks for everybody. ok, now why dont you go pick on some homeless people for a change.
:D
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Used to lift these weights years ago.:)
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If you are overweight you are given al ultimatum - you'll have x amount of time to get in shape.
If you dont, then NO healthcare.
The other day I was watching a movie in the theater, and this grossly overweight guy sat next to me. He took way too much space. He kept weezing and coughing.
I had to stand up and move. It was worse than sitting next to a smoker.
It was worse than diddlying Fatty's mom.
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Originally posted by Leslie
Used to lift these weights years ago.:)
CRAP thats a huge fish!
How did it taste? You could feed a whole overweight American family for a day with that!
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Oh man Animal, it was GOOD!!!! That was about five or six years ago. The boat is a 30' Contender, which if it had wings I think it would fly...60 mph top speed.
Anyway, this pic was taken about 30 miles south of Mobile, Alabama around the oil rigs. Good fishing there.
Btw, the boat belongs to my buddy. He got a good deal on it. $50K...about half what it costs brand new. He still has it, and runs charter trips every now and then, but not for a living. It's a lot of work.
Les
:)
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Originally posted by davidpt40
Hey now, calm down. No reason to attack me like you attack a sloppy-joe sandwhich. Perhaps we could each post pictures of ourself, and then we would see who the huge fat slob was, and who doesn't eat meat?
I did get my figures wrong. 1 serving of the ground beef in my refrigerator is 47% of the daily saturated fat recommendation.
Plenty of people have seen me in person at last years's Con. I'm a carnivore through and through. I drink all the beer I want and regularly wolf down huge hamburgers and large orders of fries. I also weight train regularly and at last check my bodyfat was about 8%. I've forgotten more about fitness than you've ever known. Bark up another tree. Numbers are numbers. Daily recommendations are a general guidelines, not the gospel.
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If my choice is to choke down brown rice or to eat a steak, I choose the steak, and the fat ass. I go for ground sirloin though...it's got a little less than 50% fat. What a tard.
SOB
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Ahhh guys, hey already have it. Started by Kennedy in the sixty's I believe.
President's counsel for physical fitness
http://www.fitness.gov/
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There's definitely gotta be genetics playing a part in people's weight, or if not that- atleast their initial diet put on them by their parents.
However!!!! Fast food (not just MickeyDs, or Wendys.. but Jerrys and even SubWay) and laziness also play a part in *some* people's weight.
There is no one way to deal with it, except adopting a national weight loss program... called "Kick Animal's Ass", in this program we will adopt a national nutrition center where you may eat 1 rice cake every 12 hours, and have 1 gallon of water every 6 hours. This will ensure minimal caloric intake, while maximing fat burning and muscle toning with 95% fat loss. It also has a healthy end result, 1 beat to hell Puerto Rican.
As you can see, everyone wins in the end. Especially me, because the cost of this program is a measly $1,000 USD a day.
I guarantee results you can see, feel and laugh at (the Puerto Rican)!
Not only am I the president, I'm also a member!
-SW
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lets put all the fatties on treadmills and have them generate power for the regular people untill they are not overweight.
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There is no one way to deal with it, except adopting a national weight loss program... called "Kick Animal's Ass", in this program we will adopt a national nutrition center where you may eat 1 rice cake every 12 hours, and have 1 gallon of water every 6 hours. This will ensure minimal caloric intake, while maximing fat burning and muscle toning with 95% fat loss. It also has a healthy end result, 1 beat to hell Puerto Rican.
Wulfie, animal ain't yer skinny assed whippin squeak.. he's my son. and, while i have no recollection of screwing a parrot in PR over 20 years ago, when i was there it was virtually entirely populated by americans and parrots. In short, being 'puerto rican' is the same as being a 'californian'. Parrot and all.
further.. since he's my kid AND and an FDB; he's by default OUR skinny assed whipping squeak.
in short, u mess with our skinny kid, we all sit on yer face and you get to guess the average FDB weight.
:D
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You tell em!
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Hmmm...Hangtime's comments a side, I do believe this is a weight loss idea I could really get into! :D
SOB
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I certainly don't think we (general public) should be paying for what basically amounts to "lazy americans"
if they can afford to pay for their own care great.
if not, Darwin comes to mind.
Ahem the point of the article is that it is the general public who are "lazy americans" (as you put it). Federal statistics say about 60 percent of American adults are not regularly active, and about 25 percent are not active at all.
Not that I think having a department of exercise will do anything to help at all. Complete waste of cash, IMHO unless the DoEx people are heavily armed in SWAT style and stake out all the fast food joints & supermarkets. "Put the burger down, son, start aerobicizing and no one'll get hurt." ;)
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myelo: I think educating kids about health, including diet and exercise, is just as important as reading, spelling, and math.
And "educating kids about health" withing the government-run system would be just as ineffective as in "reading, spelling, and math". I do not dispute here that the goal (of drastically changing american culture) may be good. I only claim that creating a government program for it will be a complete waste.
What if 25% of kids graduating from the public school system were illiterate?
Over 25% of kids graduating from the public school system are illiterate! They may be able to read a printed paragraph aloud but that is not literacy if the school graduate reading comprehension is at the 4-th grade level.
Would you say they're just stupid, it's their fault-- what's the problem?
Yes, major part of the problem is that some are plain stupid though no fault can be assigned, unless you blame Creator or principles of genetics or the fact that our technology and customs stopped natural selection from weeding out the bad genes and habits.
In a mobile society like american one, smart capable individuals move out and congregate in different neighbourhoods and socialise in different circles, which leads dumb people breeding mostly with dumb people and not having smart people living next to them to set a lifestyle example.
As for "what's the problem...", I do not deny that the "problem" exists. As do many others. For example, gravity is a major problem - if only we could cut Earth surface gravity in half, we would drastically reduce fuel consumption, airplane range, heart failures, low water pressure in the faucets and women's breasts would be much perkier. :) But since there is no solution to this problem, what's the point of speculating about it or throwing tax money at it?
Or, if they don't have insurance they get medical care anyway, increasing taxes for medicaid and increasing medical costs...
So you've discovered the philosophical concept of "moral hazard" - socially reducing porential penalties for risky behavior leeds to increase in that kind of behavior! Forgive loans and people will take more unreasonably risky loans, subcidise treatment of consequences of obesity, and people will be more obese, guarantee pensions and people will save less. Congratulations!
At least that problem - unlike gravity, dumb genes or bad culture - is legislatively created in the recent past. So we could remove it if we wanted to.
-dead-: Ahem the point of the article is that it is the general public who are "lazy americans" (as you put it).
Good point!
Or maybe Wlfgng was not clear. He was talking specifically about people who were paying taxes. Since way over 50% of US taxes if paid by way below half of the population, calling that minority "general population" was not correct on his part.
If I may offer a different wording - "We - general taxpayers, numerical minority of the population - should not be paying for what basically amounts to "lazy americans".
miko
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hmm sounds like we need Diet Nazis and Exercise Nazis to herd the unfit and overweight into Diet und Exerzize Kamps where "workouts macht thin". Isnt the right to be fat in the Second Amendment someplace? :)
"When Fat is outlawed only Outlaws will waddle"
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Is that some kind of sick threat??
Originally posted by davidpt40
I'll take brown rice over steak any day. And if you know whats good for you, so will you.
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Leslie.. what the heck are doing with that Giant GoldFish ??? :eek:
I agree with Animal...
cut them loose from the system if they're too friggin lazy to get of their asses.
let them die off while watching Richard Simmons and chugging diet coke for all I care.
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hehe
reminds me of that commercial showing a big boy sitting on his couch watching tv choking down a pizza while being zapped by a six pack ab maker ... telling his buddy on the phone to call back as he was busy working out :)
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Since we are eliminating lazy fat people from the health care system, I think we should eliminate all other people who take part in activities which increase their risk of incurring health care expenses:
- Let's start with skiers and snowboarders. Let Darwin take care of these bellybutton clowns when they are freezing on a mountainside with a compound femur fracture. They can pay for their own ski rescue team and helicopter.
- Anybody who takes part in any dangerous sport. Skydivers, mountaineers, skateboarders, bicyclists, etc. Emergency room and orthopedic surgery costs would plummet.
- Also anybody who drinks alcohol or smokes. Both addictions cause disease, and alcohol also increases the rate of accidental injury. Drunk drivers cost us millions every year. Dirty addicts!
- People who drive cars that can go faster than the speed limit. We know that speed kills.
- All motorcyclists. No other activity creates more drooling vegetables. Brain surgery costs would drop quickly if we got these idiots out of the system.
- People who work with power tools. Sew your own damn finger back on. Emergency rooms are full of these guys.
- People who own guns. Guns are more likely to injure their owners than any other person. Rosie was right!
- People who spend a lot of time outdoors. Skin cancer KILLS!
Join me, let's clean up this country and reduce health care costs! Keep the USA healthy and safe!
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Originally posted by Rasker
hmm sounds like we need Diet Nazis and Exercise Nazis to herd the unfit and overweight into Diet und Exerzize Kamps where "workouts macht thin". Isnt the right to be fat in the Second Amendment someplace? :)
"When Fat is outlawed only Outlaws will waddle"
Go ahead and eat as many bacon cheeseburgers as you can cram in your pie hole, but the government should provide public parks and recreation opportunities for those that want it.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
if they can afford to pay for their own care great..
if not, Darwin comes to mind.
I agree. DO most health insurance companies penalize for obesity? If so, judging from the increasing percentage of overweight people in our country, maybe the should penalize more. It would seem that their in the best position that effect change.
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If you wanna run heavy fuel you gotta build a big engine. Muscule mass burns calories 24/7 365 days a year. The more muscule the more calories it requires to operate.
Arobics are great..running is great. The can burn quit a few calories while doing them. You must be doing them to burn those calories though....
Fat is stored E.... even when the body is in a starvation mode from dieting it will still feed off muscule tissue as well as fat.
The best plan for excercise isnt rocket science... a mix of arobics and anarobic is good.
Kids today are allowed vie thier parents to spend alot of time infront of a PC..or TV. Parents themselves do this. Check out some of the pasty skins found in this game.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
.....but the government should provide public parks and recreation opportunities for those that want it.
Why? There's not a side walk that they can run down?
Maybe the government should provide bellybutton wipers in every public bathroom because we're not responsible enough to take care of ourselves.
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Mosgood, shh, some politician might read this board! Don't give them any ideas! :)
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ok funked..
I'll play all the sports I can , including so-called dangerous sports and you eat all the cheeseburgers and fries you can.
we'll so who ends up where at the end :)
'dangerous' sports, including 'extreme' sports cause far fewer deaths and health problems than the populace that's obese and does nothing for their own health..
btw.. I'm not trying to single out fat people per se.. in fact, I read somewhere that a 'fat' person that regularly excersices will have fewer health problems than skinny people who don't excercise.
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Montezuma: ..but the government should provide public parks and recreation opportunities for those that want it.
Local municipality and state - surely. Do what you want in Calfornia or wherever you live.
But the Federal Government is constitutionally barred from owning land in the states other than military installations with the state's agreement. Go read the Constitution if you don't believe.
So unless you "park" is an infantry training center, mind your own local business, do not push more government on us.
miko
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don't build any stinking 'parks' around here please!
we have all the outdoors we need and we like it just the way it is thank you...
more hockey rinks would be good though...
oh, and someplace to rollerblade with a grade less than 8-15 percent
oh.. and a McDonalds, please build one
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Originally posted by mosgood
Why? There's not a side walk that they can run down?
Maybe the government should provide bellybutton wipers in every public bathroom because we're not responsible enough to take care of ourselves.
One of the reasons there are far fewer fatties in San Diego than the Midwest is that San Diego has things like Balboa Park, Mission Bay, Mission Trails, and State/Municipal Beaches. The private sector does not magically toejam out stuff like that for the people's benefit.
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This just in:
HARM (Health Agency for Risk Management) has added onto my list. Those eating rare steaks and sushi are now excluded from health care. Also anybody who has ever been within 50 yards of a McDonalds.
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Montezuma,
What I'm saying is that making the government responsible for peoples personal health is NOT the road anyone wants to go down NOR is it the answer.
Also, I can't see that the guy that's too damn lazy to get off his ass, walk out his front door and jog down the road on his own volition, OR go into his own back yard to pick up a jump rope for 15 minutes WILL instead drive to a park to jog or jump rope? That's why excercise videos and home gym stuff is such a big market. People have just gotten to lazy to leave home.
The reason there are so many healthy people in San Deigo is the same reason that there are in all the sunshine states. And it's the same reason there are more unhealthy people in the northern/ colder states. There are more available days in the year for outside activities and the people that don't take advantage of the sunshine now.... WONT when there's a new park doen the street. So, if the government put a new park down the street from Joe Shmo in Detroit , Michigan, I don't believe he's going to excercise one calorie more than he would if the government spent the cash somewhere else.
Parks are great but they are not the answer for obesity. Self-respect and a desire that take responsibility for your own health is.
The private sector does provide ways for people to get fit and stay healthy. Books provide education on nutrition and fitness. The internet has thousands of sites that are fitness and nutrition related. Go turn on ESPN and workout with hotbodies on the shores of Hawaii.
IMHO
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a microcosm...
problem... people are too fat for their own good..
solution..
democrats.... form a government agency to fix it for our own good.
dowding.... tax everything that is remotely related to fat.
lazs.. "So... what's the problem it's their life."
lazs
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I agree. it is their life. But since 50% of americans are now classified as "overweight" that creates a HUGE effect on Healthcare and Health Insurance rates. We're all paying for Joe Shmo's heart transplant through higher H.I. rates. So while it IS their life, they should be the ONLY ones paying the bills for it. Do you agree?
A new park isn't going to get Joe bellybutton in gear BUT $100 bucks a month more in H.I. payments has a better chance.
Let them carry their own weight around.
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I think that people do have the right to be fat or unhealthy if they want. I just don't want to pay for it.
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mosgood: I think that people do have the right to be fat or unhealthy if they want. I just don't want to pay for it.
Oh, yeah? Than maybe you should not live in a socialist country, you stinky libertarian! :)
miko
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Lol.... I think your right.
I probably wouldn't be very popular.
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mosgood... name one well meaning govenment program or restriction that has ever lowered healt care costs... in fact... show me where health care has gone down now that ciggarettes are taxed and socialy unaceptable... seatbelts.... helmet laws? naa... helthcare just keeps going up. let the fatties die and get off the organ donnor waiting list.
oh.. and so far as you "paying for it".... you are not.. if your insurance company wishs to pay for it then take it up with them or... get another company or... stay healthy and get an "accident only" policy they are very cheap... like 60 bucks a month. it is you who is trying to tell people what to do.
lazs