Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on March 13, 2003, 02:09:55 PM
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Awhile back I posted that an interview on AH2 would be appearing on SimHQ soon. I've been quiet thinking that it was imminent, but a string of technical problems have delayed it from appearing. I'm told that it should be up today or tomorrow. Sorry for the delays on that.
Charon also has put together a new FAQ and that will be appearing shortly after.
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Wklink (a squadie) was deployed to the Middle East, that may have been part of the problem.
Looking forward to the interview. :)
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It's up!
http://simhq.com/simhq3/sims/interviews/ah2/
My sincere thanks to Pyro and HiTech for all of their patience. Tom's deployment really wasn't the delay....he wrapped up all of his loose ends before he left. Our host (and therefore our site) just had a ton of technical problems in the last couple of weeks, which is why articles have been few and far between....I think there's at least three more in the queue, waiting for the problems to go away.
(knock on virtual wood) They seem to be fixed.
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Originally stated by Pyro
There will be a lot of things that are either different or won’t carry over from Classic to ToD. For example, killshooter (reflective damage for friendly fire) will remain in Classic but won’t be in ToD. Instead, there will be a court martial system.
I hope I am wrong, but I see a huge window for player abuses here. Some "troublemaker" might think it is funny to use an alternate avatar to infiltrate the opposing side and then shoot down that side's best pilots because they think it's funny.
This might be a tough one to find a balance on.
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Midnight do you think some one will get a second account or try to get a 2 week freebee to come into ah and kill you just so they will screw up your rank?
lol I thought beetle was paranoid.
Pyro doesnt actually say that you would get damage and die, what he said was there would be a court martial system instead of reflective damage. It may very well mean you can frag your own team but I doudt we will see very many folks creating second accounts just to frag you.
We’re making some big changes in gunnery and damage modeling. We’re improving the precision of our hit detection by removing the granularity from it. If our current system is 95% of as good as it gets, we’re going after the last 5%. I don’t know if it will make a noticeable difference, but at least we’ll be wholly satisfied with that aspect of it.
We’re also making improvements to our weapon calculations as well as increasing damage effects. We’re still debating the exact level we want to take those effects to so that detail is still undecided for now. Our main goal is to have the damage both believable and variable without resorting to randomness.
Now the above is a bit ambiguous but even a 5% change could be a good thing.
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Originally posted by Batz
Pyro doesnt actually say that you would get damage and die, what he said was there would be a court martial system instead of reflective damage. It may very well mean you can frag your own team but I doudt we will see very many folks creating second accounts just to frag you.
Hmm.. Good point Batz. Maybe I jumped the gun there. That could work just fine I suppose. Rather than a friendly actually being able to shoot you down, he just recieves the court-martial for attempting to do it.
So then the question becomes how will the system determine when to court martial you? Obviously, a stray bullet or two shouldn't be enough to trigger a Court-Martial, but a concentrated burst on a friendly target could. Pilots will need to be mindful of when they pull the trigger and be sure their drop zone is clear if they are planning on releasing ordnance on a target.
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And even if the victim of such an attack were to receive damage and get shot down, I doubt very much that the perp would be allowed to carry on as such. I would think repeat offenders would warrant being banned.
Maybe we should all try to keep in mind that its a simulation of war.......there were instances of friendly fire.....you think a pilot who was shot down due to friendly fire was not frustrated?
Ifluff'n you can't hack ToD, stay in AH Classic.
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I see 2 problems with this:
1) I got 50 kills, and then BANG, newbie shot me down. Frustration. I was not trying to go to his cone of fire, just started turning when despite the order he opened fire at enemy which even were not in the range, and couple 30mm sent me to the tower. I do not care how much he is punished, I lost my month long kill steak!
2) I am flying and some friendly jumps ahead of me just in stream of my fire and die. He was bellow and under me, and though I gave vox message when started to fire, he still did it. I am court martualled, though it was not my fault at all. Frustration.
Will not happen very often, but probably there shall still be some way to send film to prove your innocence in case 2. About case 1, I would suggest the following, though air frame is lost, pilot who died from friendly fire accident considered bailed out, not killed (unless his plane were dammaged already).
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Originally posted by AcId
Maybe we should all try to keep in mind that its a simulation of war.......there were instances of friendly fire.....you think a pilot who was shot down due to friendly fire was not frustrated?
Maybe so, but the internet and on-line games have a way of attracting trouble-makers who do malicious acts just because they can, or just because it is fun for them to ruin other people's enjoyment of something.
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it would be no different then flying in the main now when you try to avoid kill shooting yourself. The main is more packed and less disciplined.
Look at scenarios where we have ks off, while their are incidence of this happening that are relatively rare.
Either way if the guy that shoots friendlies does it more then one or 2 times no one will fly with him. If you get hit by accident then this goes to SA and understanding when the other guy has position. Instead of jumping in on his kill you should take a support position. Then use vox to let the guy know when you will take a shot. You will be more likely to take a support position in ah2:tod rather then cut someone off if it means you may get fragged.
Its the samething if by accident you shoot a friendly. Its all about SA. If theres a possibility that a guy may get "court martialled" he may be less likely to fire over your shoulder. It may cut down on some of the sprayers.
But pyro hasnt clarified what this means. It or or may not mean team "fragging".
But this brings up the question I talked about in an earlier thread. I feel there needs to be structure to the missions. There should be an ability to eject those who would disrupt folks from the mission. Pyro mentions a rating system and maybe it will include a means to deal with disruptive folks.
Another thing that didnt get talked about is squad missions. Will e have the ability to designate "squad only" missions?
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Originally posted by Midnight
Maybe so, but the internet and on-line games have a way of attracting trouble-makers who do malicious acts just because they can, or just because it is fun for them to ruin other people's enjoyment of something.
Can't argue that point....hence the "banning" method.
I do tend to think that the nature of ToD won't attract those types of people, at the same time I'm not saying it won't ever happen.
And Batz makes a good point that in current events friendly fire is rare because its a different atmosphere than in the MA. I admit I did put a couple rounds into a friendly once, didn't cause any damage though, what a relief. Poor SA on my part....sorry Rip, I still feel bad about that. I need therapy.
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I kinda doubt the court martial system would kick in for 1 friendly kill.
Do it in multiple sorties or multiple times in 1 sortie and then you can expect the CO (host) to be pissed.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Did anyine notice this?
The Squad format of the main arena won’t be a part of ToD
That really really sucks!! :(
The squad based play is the major reason I fly AH. Oh well
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Originally posted by addy
Did anyine notice this?
The Squad format of the main arena won’t be a part of ToD
That really really sucks!! :(
The squad based play is the major reason I fly AH. Oh well
Addy, classic will still have squads. And I think if you want to fly with your squadies in mission arena, you can just ask them to be there at same time, and join same flight.
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1) I got 50 kills, and then BANG, newbie shot me down. Frustration. I was not trying to go to his cone of fire, just started turning when despite the order he opened fire at enemy which even were not in the range, and couple 30mm sent me to the tower. I do not care how much he is punished, I lost my month long kill steak!
2) I am flying and some friendly jumps ahead of me just in stream of my fire and die. He was bellow and under me, and though I gave vox message when started to fire, he still did it. I am court martualled, though it was not my fault at all. Frustration.
Analysis:
1 - can happen in real life
2 - can happen in real life
Solution:
1 - Watch over newbies. Train them. Educate them. Notify them that if they do it, they're going to court marshalled, before the mission starts, if you think that guy flying near you is really a newbie. (but on second thought, really real newbies will probably flunk the training rounds over and over again. They probably won't be able to join your flight anyway)
2 - Stay aware of where your frdlies are. Talk to them. Get your roles straight on who's attacking, who's covering, so dumb things like 3~4 planes hogging over 1 enemy, all firing over each other's shoulder don't happen. If some guy ignore your vox, and does something like that, he's bound to courtmarshall.
Let's try and think in the WW2 environment mindset, and we'll all soon realize, those things aren't any problem. If you shoot over someone's shoulder, or if some guy just jumps in front of you.. if he ignores your vox.. if someone doesn't know the word of 'cooperation'... it just means your flight is full of untrained, unqualified, and uncooperative rookies, whatever the personal skill level. Nothing more.
Actually, those situations seem only more real and immersive to me. ;) If I ever become a flight leader, and see someone like that, his evaluation will be zilch.
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Originally posted by Oedipus
Regardless, the good news is that with our new graphics engine, the building process for the 3D models has been greatly simplified. We’re expecting a 30-50% decrease in the time it takes us to complete a new model.
That is damn good news!
Um, any chance for an IAR-80 for the Ploesti missions? ! :D
And maybe a B-24 too? ;)
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Analysis:
1 - can happen in real life
2 - can happen in real life
Solution:
1 - Watch over newbies. Train them. Educate them. Notify them that if they do it, they're going to court marshalled, before the mission starts, if you think that guy flying near you is really a newbie. (but on second thought, really real newbies will probably flunk the training rounds over and over again. They probably won't be able to join your flight anyway)
2 - Stay aware of where your frdlies are. Talk to them. Get your roles straight on who's attacking, who's covering, so dumb things like 3~4 planes hogging over 1 enemy, all firing over each other's shoulder don't happen. If some guy ignore your vox, and does something like that, he's bound to courtmarshall.
1 and only -- its not a real life. It is a game. What you write sounds good, now how you gonna implement it? In reality you flew with same people during many training and battle sorties, here you can't restrict someone who you never saw before to join same flight, and that may cause you a lot of trouble and spoil your experience badly.
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Pyro mentioned of an evaluation system. Im sure misbehavior won't pay.
I am well aware it is not 'real life'. However, it is definately one of the situations one might meet in real life.
Besides, from my experience, with a little awareness about what's going around you, one rarely gets kill shootered. I get KSd and cause KS to others like what, once every 6 months? I consider myself as very average guy normally fighting in very average situation amongst other very average guys. Unless something's drastically different about your situation, or there's some reason to believe you are going to seriously suffer from lack of KS, you're being too worrisome.
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"Stay aware of your friendlies..."
I agree with this to the point I think friendly "contact" should be turned on not just gun fire. It completely changes how you fly when you have to worry about running into friendly aircraft... Just go try IL2-FB online and you'll soon see that you plan your approach and line up your shooting much more tentatively...not to mention landing, etc. Much more realistic and not in a bad way IMO.
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Originally posted by Fariz
I see 2 problems with this:
I think the loss of rank due to death by freindly fire could easily be negated............even now logs record the country of the shooter.
re court marshalls.......I would be suprised if they were not simply automated penalties........
re accidentally shooting a freindly due to his incompetance............. it would be rare and it would be a part of std SA....... however even then I rem AW's early PNG status........
Here after 3 such incidents within a given period a player lost all ammunition for a day...........usually having to resort to support of fellow players by flying goons. The point being that the first offence could be ignored re court marshall (player given a warning) and the 2nd if shortly follows would incurr full penalty.
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Even the numbers HT posted early on as an hypothical showed he had no plan to make 1 death a cause to loose rank.
His example numbers (which maybe a clue to where his mind is at) showed you would need 5 straight deaths with out a kill to go back in rank.
If you keep getting killed by friendlies then most likely its your fault.
This all goes to SA and learning to play as a unit. Most ks incidents result from 50 guys chasing and spraying after 1 guy.
SA is much harder to maintain in the main. Knowing your roll in any engagement will be key to keeping your self out of the gun fire of your team mates. Understanding when you have position and communicating with your team mates will keep you from accidentally shooting them or getting shot.
The KS works now is that if you shoot a friendly you recieve all the damage localized in spot on your plane.
When ks is off the odds of dieing to a few pings will be low. But keep shooting after that you deserve a court martial.
You most likely wont end up in 50 man fight to the death furballs like in the main.
Position, SA and common sense will be enough to keep you from being fragged.
Now is some idiot wants go through training up 5 times and team kill some one he goes back to training, you will know who he is and you choose whether to fly with him.
I am not sure who this rating system will work and dont think ht can set the arena up with out squads. I dont what he means when he said the current squad format wont be a part of ToD. I dont think that would mean no squads at all. I wouldnt bother flying there. All I care to do is fly with my squadmates for the most part. But I would like a way to get rid of disruptive folks.
Most of us have played fps games where one guy will scream on vox and make noises. We could get one those 100 check six tards etc. I would be all for getting rid of these types either by vote or by .eject.
You guys take any little tid bit of info and run to its extreme.
Ofcourse there lotsa questions outstanding but geesh...
Take a wait and see :)
as example do you of play il2? I play most on full real. No icons, no clipboard gps, no radar no ks, friendly collisons etc. I have never killed a friendly or been killed by 1.
The 1 incident I remember is AG and I were in a fight. A friendly 262 came in and killed AG. But that guy was new and apologized.
I did get shot down by my ai wingman though and another time I collided with ai.
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The Generals will be coming out from under every rock.
In reality you flew with same people during many training and battle sorties, here you can't restrict someone who you never saw before to join same flight, and that may cause you a lot of trouble and spoil your experience badly.
This is why I hope they impliment squads being able to run missions. Fly with those your more fimiliar with instead of some KS newbie.
-SLICER
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It would be smart to make some sort of training newbies have to passed before they can actually start flying real missions. I was thinking that maybe it can be an AI mission not really involving real trainers. Newbs can practice or complete this training offline. Therefore, when they enter TOD, then they wont shoot everyone down. It has happened before that some idiot newb didnt know that green labels are friendlies and red is the enemy, and therefore starting shooting me and shot himself down. I did not read all of the above posts, so i dont know if this has already been mentioned.