Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on March 15, 2003, 12:04:10 PM
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(http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003120231,00.jpg)
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it may be peace, but can't give a haircut worth a damn!
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Scary
:rolleyes:
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Yaright.
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Hey funkedup, why not post a thread called 'Christianity is peace' or 'Judaism is peace' with a picture of someone being circumcised? That'd a barbaric, bloody ritual that actually happens all the time, but nobody ever says anything about it...
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Are you really trying to compare some barbarian cutting up his kid with a sword to a surgical procedure performed by a doctor which has well documented health benefits?
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Examining the claim of medical benefits of circumcision:
http://www.circumcision.org/benefits.htm (http://www.circumcision.org/benefits.htm)
Excerpt:
Our science is affected by our cultural values. Circumcision reflects a cultural value, and a principal method for preserving cultural values is to disguise them as truths that are based on scientific research. This “research” can then be used to support medical practices. This explains the claimed medical “benefits” of circumcision.
Blind acceptance of science and belief in “objective” reality is imprudent. There is no such thing as objective observation, because observations are made by people who have inherent theories and expectations about how things should be. Studies defending circumcision make this clear by ignoring vital information (such as the functions of the foreskin) that conflicts with observations, results, and conclusions.
Because it is unnecessary surgery, the burden of proof in the circumcision debate rests with those who advocate it. They must show that it is both safe and effective. Neither has been demonstrated.
(edit: added excerpt)
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Show some christianity in dublin too please.
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The muslims also do circumscison you know chairboy.. So please get pff you high horse if you dont know what ur taliking about. But of cousre that wouldnt serve your purpose of self hating west bashing.
BTW what exactly is that guy doin to the kid in the picture and why?
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I'm not defending Muslims, I'd attacking the idea that Muslims are any more barbaric then Christians, Jews, or the rest of the religions.
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Self hating west bashing? Since I'm not Christian, Jewish or Muslim, how does that work exactly?
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Let's start talking about female circumcision performed on 12 year old girls by some Christians.
Wanna see some pictures?
What a stupid thread.
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Agreed, this is a stupid thread, because Christians and Jews (and more) have done stuff just as bad as anything Muslims have done, but there appears to be some real selective memory here.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Let's start talking about female circumcision performed on 12 year old girls by some Christians.
Apparently the custom is cultural, not religious, and was practiced by a wide number of cultures...including those of Jewish and Christian orientation. BUT, you will find that in modern days the practice of female circumcision is performed almost exclusively by Islamic cultures, mainly situated in Africa or the near or even Far East.
Seems like some cultures "grew up" on a societal level and others didn't.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cirm.htm
As to male circumcision...I feel that it was initially a practical attempt to thwart infections in young boys. If you know how a noodle develops and grows in boys you will also know that such infections are common in uncircumcised boys.
Since the development of anti-biotics and better hygenic attention in "modern times" this practice has been continued under the guise of cultural necessity...Jews, Christains and Musilms all engage in the practice.
I am circumcised...my two boys are not. I don't agree with it, but the practice has hardly left me incapable of enjoying sex. IMHO, far from it.
Female circumcision is nothing short of multilation.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Let's start talking about female circumcision performed on 12 year old girls by some Christians.
Wanna see some pictures?
What a stupid thread.
Or we could go into genital mutilation - of course performed by Muslims.
Psst - youre gonna run out of "evil Christian practices" before I run out of Muslim ones.
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The point stands. Religious nutcases are religious nutcases whatever particular religion they follow.
The cultural issue is a good one. Strangely, when Christians are committing questionable acts, it's the first point made. When Muslims are the instigators, Muhammed himself must have sanctioned it and it must be in the Qu'ran.
What I've read of the Qu'ran does not mention this. But maybe it was in the 'Dodgy activities that demonstrate how evil Islam is' chapter. I must have missed that one.
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what happened to that kid?
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I've got one.
Stoning women...who are the ones doing that Dowding?
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Modern Islam has about as much in common with the actions of fundamentalist illiterates in thrid world countries as the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury has with this:
Deuteronomy 21
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,
19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.
20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard."
21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
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Lotta friskie fishies today!
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Originally posted by Dowding
Modern Islam has about as much in common with the actions of fundamentalist illiterates in thrid world countries as the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury has with this:
Are you joking? Stoning of women is something that happens regularily in Saudi and Iran for example.
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Stoning of women is something that happens regularily in Saudi and Iran for example.
My point exactly.
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So now I'm confused. Exactly what is your point?
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Saudi and Iran are not examples of 'Modern Islam'. I was referring to the Islam practised in the West, in secular nations.
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Yes Dowding in the west if they did that they'd be put in Jail and get bellybutton raped and become the squeak of some 300lb man. That's a good deterrant.
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The only religion that IS peace as far as I know, is Buddhism.
IMO Islam and Christianity rank equally in the peace rating.
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Originally posted by Glasses
Yes Dowding in the west if they did that they'd be put in Jail and get bellybutton raped and become the squeak of some 300lb man. That's a good deterrant.
I know that squeak.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Saudi and Iran are not examples of 'Modern Islam'. I was referring to the Islam practised in the West, in secular nations.
Ah ok, so your point would be this: When you take their religion, and leave them to practice it as they want, then they are bad. But if you take their religion and force them to change it to follow our rules (based on our Christian values/rules), then is ok?
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so what's the backstory on this picture?
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i'm circumcised and the women love it.
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They tell you that John?
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How can you say it's a muslim fron this pict ?
It can be a christian (copte for exemple) or a muslim (chiite) ...
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Curval you reference is a bit flawed it happen to christian woman too in Africa it's more a cultural than a religious practice.
For exemple if I remember ok it happen quite often in Ethiopie... and the ethipian are not muslim in general ...
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nice work .... Photoshop or Corel ?
anyway try to ask people of this country what do they thing about your Judgement (http://www.nuclearfiles.org/images/gallery/naga/)
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Hey funkedup, why not post a thread called 'Christianity is peace' or 'Judaism is peace' with a picture of someone being circumcised? That'd a barbaric, bloody ritual that actually happens all the time, but nobody ever says anything about it...
Jewish law says to circumcise, not christians.
Jews dont follow Christ.
Ignorance is bliss.....
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Religion is peace, just ask 3 million burned witches about it :D
Regards Blitz
btw Just remind me, which 2 big churches blessed the weapons and his soldiers of Mr. Adolf till the final end?
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous
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Originally posted by straffo
Curval you reference is a bit flawed it happen to christian woman too in Africa it's more a cultural than a religious practice.
For exemple if I remember ok it happen quite often in Ethiopie... and the ethipian are not muslim in general ...
"Apparently the custom is cultural, not religious, and was practiced by a wide number of cultures...including those of Jewish and Christian orientation. BUT, you will find that in modern days the practice of female circumcision is performed almost exclusively by Islamic cultures, mainly situated in Africa or the near or even Far East."
I think I covered it Straffo.
Note I said "Almost exclusively"...there are some cultures that are non-Islamic.
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wtf is he doing to the kid? giving him a shave with a knife?
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Originally posted by Eaglecz
nice work .... Photoshop or Corel ?
anyway try to ask people of this country what do they thing about your Judgement (http://www.nuclearfiles.org/images/gallery/naga/)
Still debating the use of the bomb to end WW2?
Selected costs of the conventional war...
Iwo Jima = 20,000 Japaneze dead
Okinawa = 110,000 Japaneze dead
Fire bombing of Tokyo = 100,000 + dead
Invasion of the home islands of Japan = ? maybe a million?
Add to that Dresden, Shanghai, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Berlin......
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(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030313/capt.1047574300.mideast_lebanon_ashoura_bei111.jpg)
Can you say nutjobs??? (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030313/168/3i6de.html&e=1&ncid=996)
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(http://jenwallace.wirephoto.com/Features/splatteringblood.jpg)
symbol of faith for some on the holiday of Ashoura (http://jenwallace.wirephoto.com/Features/Ashoura.html)
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Originally posted by Eaglecz
nice work .... Photoshop or Corel ?...
LOL
here's some more "PhotoShop (http://swallace.wirephoto.com/storyPage.php?storyPath=Ashoura)"
(http://swallace.wirephoto.com/Ashoura/CloseBleeding.jpg)
(http://swallace.wirephoto.com/Ashoura/Paramedic.jpg)
And I thought making my First Communion was hard :)
I'm sure these kids know EXACTLY what its all about.............
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it is their old custom, whats wrong with it ?
do they try to make it to your children or what makes you so "bad feeling" about this ?
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Originally posted by Eaglecz
it is their old custom, whats wrong with it ?
Whats wrong with it? Have you been licking frogs again Orel?
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Originally posted by Eagler
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030313/capt.1047574300.mideast_lebanon_ashoura_bei111.jpg)
Can you say nutjobs??? (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030313/168/3i6de.html&e=1&ncid=996)
Quoting from your own source:
Not all Muslims are pleased with these events, though. Sunnis and many Shiites are quick to point out to eager foreign observers that the practice of shedding blood is not required by Islam. Many Lebanese are concerned that the wide coverage given to these events will be taken as proof of Islamic fanaticism and barbarism, when in fact it is an extremely small portion of the population who practices the blood-letting at Ashoura. Consider the Middle East as a region: Islam is the faith of a significant portion of the population, but not all. Then narrow down the number some more as Islam is divided into several main groups, the two largest being Sunni and Shiite (or Shi'a). Ashoura is exclusively a Shiite holiday, as described above, but this is not the end of it. There are several countries with significant Shiite populations, including Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon--and although Shiites of all nations mark Ashoura, only the Shiite of Lebanon practice the self-mutilation anymore. Other Shiites merely pound on their chests as a sign of sorrow. Then of course within Lebanon there are several divisions of Shiites, based largely on political lines with the two largest parties being Amal and Hizbollah. As stated earlier, only Amal supports this particular practice of Ashoura, and even their supporters primarily turn out for the blood ceremony in only one city in Lebanon--Nabatieh. So, although the streets of Nabatieh are full of the faithful awash in their own blood, the practice is actually quite rare among the Islamic population as a whole--just as the Filipino Catholic devotees who nail themselves to crosses every Good Friday are not representative of the Christian world.
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BTW if you see someone wearing a turban, he'll most likely be Sikh or Hindu. Some don't cut their hair for religious beliefs. the turban is a way to keep the long hair out of the way.
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Don't confuse the issue with facts, SaburoS!
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Dodging my question Dowding?
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Don't forget the catholic Holy Week, wich is celebrated in some places with barbaric enthusiasm:
(http://pages.zdnet.com/asiabill/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t_p000745ggsinglemale.jpg)
(http://pages.zdnet.com/asiabill/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t_sfp_skinny_guy_back_scoring.jpg)
(http://pages.zdnet.com/asiabill/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t_p000794ggjesus.jpg)
(http://pages.zdnet.com/asiabill/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t_sfp_nail_in_hand.jpg)
(http://pages.zdnet.com/asiabill/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t_p000791ggjesuscross.jpg)
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nutjobs come in all flavors .........
don't see them nailing any children to any crosses though ....
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Hotlund what do you think of DA98 post ?
Not barbaric I guess.
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ho hoo...Dowding? Did you swallow the "submit reply"-key?
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I missed your post - I was kind of distracted by Eagler's pictures. I was going to post some pictures myself, but I think I'd be banned or at least admonished. Genital mutilation isn't a pretty sight.
While Western civilisations may have laws that have their origins in Christianity, I believe many of the laws are 'natural' - i.e. there to maximise the survival of the community. Murder, adultery, theft were all punished in pagan society. There were advanced civilisations before Christianiy, you know.
Your issue is the severity of the punishment. I believe that is a cultural issue, not a religious one. Read the bible; the old testament in particular describes some very harsh punishments - including stoning. Why aren't they practised in the West?
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Originally posted by straffo
Hotlund what do you think of DA98 post ?
Not barbaric I guess.
Far be it from me to critizise anybody.
Personally I think it is the wrong way to approach God.
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Personally I think it is the wrong way to approach God.
Modern Muslims would say exactly the same thing about the sword thing.
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Originally posted by Dowding
While Western civilisations may have laws that have their origins in Christianity, I believe many of the laws are 'natural' - i.e. there to maximise the survival of the community. Murder, adultery, theft were all punished in pagan society. There were advanced civilisations before Christianiy, you know.
Your issue is the severity of the punishment. I believe that is a cultural issue, not a religious one. Read the bible; the old testament in particular describes some very harsh punishments - including stoning. Why aren't they practised in the West?
Because Christianity has evolved, through the church meetings, the reformation, the counterreformation etc.
Same thing with Judaism, I think they call it the Toran or something like that (someone Jewish will correct me I hope).
No such development of Islam. There has been no reformation, no Toran, basically the text of the Koran, written ...whenever... applies as law to these people.
In Islam, weird fundamentalism is the norm, in Christianity and Judaism it is the exception.
As for the pre Christian societies...sure they had laws against murder, adultery, theft...
So..?
You still agree that the western morality code (or whatever you want to call it) we have now comes from Christianity...right?
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You still agree that the western morality code (or whatever you want to call it) we have now comes from Christianity...right?
Not entirely. I refer you to my previous answer about pagan society law - natural law - which seemed to go over your head. Many of the laws we follow today have much in common with those age old laws.
Because Christianity has evolved, through the church meetings, the reformation, the counterreformation etc.
So these things aren't in the bible anymore - they've been 'reformed right out of it'? No? In that case it is a cultural decision not enforce them and on top of that, my legal system is secular.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Not entirely. I refer you to my previous answer about pagan society law - natural law - which seemed to go over your head. Many of the laws we follow today have much in common with those age old laws.
[/b]
Well, then we disagree. The "natural laws" you refer too, please give us some more info on them. I know the Viking laws pretty well, and I suppose they could be considered to be "pagan society law", but they are very very different from the Chrisitan morals, and the morals we have today. I dont see much we have today that is in common with those. And if you are going to start quoting roman civil law or something like that, let me say that I'm talking about criminal law here.
So these things aren't in the bible anymore - they've been 'reformed right out of it'? No? In that case it is a cultural decision not enforce them and on top of that, my legal system is secular.
Cultural desicion? If the Church says "previously, these passages in the Bible has been interpreted as meaning A, but after long consideration, we have now realized they really should mean B" that is not a cultural desicion. That is a reformation of the faith.
Yes, that brings up another point. Christianity accepts the division between Church and state, Islam does not. That means the ideal nation for the Moslem is a nation run by a clergy, in accordance with the laws and rules of Islam. Yes, the same laws and rules that hasnt changed since 600-something or whatever.
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I don't disagree that Christianity has influenced Western law, but I still maintain that the concept of natural law as described by Aquinas is an underlying theme running through our society and that of our descendants before Christianity. I think that, accounting for the often brutal implementations and cultural idiosyncracies that typify Viking law for example, natural law could be seen to working.
Separation of Church and state isn't a Christian concept. It wasn't that long ago that Kings and queens, ordained by God, ran the show. They were regarded as untouchables.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I don't disagree that Christianity has influenced Western law, but I still maintain that the concept of natural law as described by Aquinas is an underlying theme running through our society and that of our descendants before Christianity. I think that, accounting for the often brutal implementations and cultural idiosyncracies that typify Viking law for example, natural law could be seen to working.
Separation of Church and state isn't a Christian concept. It wasn't that long ago that Kings and queens, ordained by God, ran the show. They were regarded as untouchables.
Whether or not it is a Christian concept is very beside the point I was trying to make. The point is, Christianity does accept such a separation, Islam does not. And I'm going to maintain that the Christian position is and has always been that the Church and the state should be separated. "Give unto Ceasar" and all that you know...
In old law, the King answered to no one but God. That did not make him supreme ruler of the Church though. Even back in 1100-something there was a clean line between the king and the Church.
As for the natural law, I'll agree on some very very basic ideas...like "it is wrong to kill, steal, rape"... if you want to advance beyond that, then it comes from Christianity.
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IIRC, the pagan guideline is not even that specific... It is simply, "Do not harm anyone."
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it's the Torah.
And seeing you point about the lack of evolution of Islam it just show your ignorance of Islam and how full of certitude you are.
This sentence is another clue :
Yes, that brings up another point. Christianity accepts the division between Church and state, Islam does not.
try to put a sunnite and a chiite in the same place ... and they both are Muslim ...
Yes, that brings up another point. Christianity accepts the division between Church and state, Islam does not. That means the ideal nation for the Moslem is a nation run by a clergy, in accordance with the laws and rules of Islam. Yes, the same laws and rules that hasnt changed since 600-something or whatever.
Don't confuse Coran Charia and usages ...
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I don't care if some toejamloving Shiites mutilate themselves, but what about the poor kid in the first picture. THAT is barbaric.
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Hey Udet, what's your opinion on the genital mutilation performed daily here in the US (and much of the western hemisphere) where a newborn is held down and part of his noodle is sliced off? Not to mention that this is done without anesthesia?
Please don't misinterpret my question as supporting the 'cutting the head with razors' thing some of those nutjobs were doing, I'm just curious about double standards in our society.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Hey Udet, what's your opinion on the genital mutilation performed daily here in the US (and much of the western hemisphere) where a newborn is held down and part of his noodle is sliced off? Not to mention that this is done without anesthesia?
Please don't misinterpret my question as supporting the 'cutting the head with razors' thing some of those nutjobs were doing, I'm just curious about double standards in our society.
yeah, exactly the same thing :rolleyes:
take your ant-eater and head on down the road ....
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Is that the best you can do, Eagler? C'mon, try harder. What's the difference? And d'ya mean by 'ant-eater'?