Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Cabby44 on March 16, 2003, 07:50:40 AM
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Air Force Base Authorizes 'deadly Force' Against Trespassing Protesters
The Associated Press
Published: Mar 15, 2003
VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - Security forces at Vandenberg Air Force Base are allowed to use "deadly force" in some cases if any anti-war demonstrators infiltrate the military complex, officials said.
Some anti-war activists have announced plans to trespass in hopes of disturbing Vandenberg's mission and to vandalize sensitive equipment they believe helps the war effort.
Vandenberg officials revealed Friday that military security police have always been allowed to shoot to kill, if necessary, to protect base residents and equipment.
It is more critical now that people understand the severity of that policy, a base spokeswoman said.
"This is not fun and games anymore," said Maj. Stacee Bako. "We're living in post 9-11. We don't know what's going to happen with the war effort in Iraq."
Military police will use their judgment, experience and training to determine if lethal force is necessary, she said.
"It's impossible for us to determine what their intent is," she said. "Are they protesters? Are there terrorists in that group and (do) they plan on killing everyone on base?"
The policy will not deter protesters, said Peter Lumsdaine of the Vandenberg Action Coalition, one of the organizers of the planned trespassing.
"I think it does underline that people in the nonviolent resistance movement are willing to take some risks," Lumsdaine said.
Glad to hear it, Lumsdaine. To whom can we mail your posthumous "Darwin Award"??
Cabby
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Itching to join in the shooting ehh cabby?
Don't forget your white sheet and hobnailed boots.
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damn....
used to go to Point Sur beach all the time.. Its on Vandenburg property, but is one of the best on the Central Coast.
Will they shoot surfers?
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wouldn't it be easy for a terrorist, domestic or foriegn to enter a base during a protest where many are ripping down fences and making distractions? I think its reasonable that the military has explained what could happen if they climb onto the base. I also think its unreasonable to think the protestors have some unspoken exemption or protection just by virtue of their protesting.
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Security forces at Vandenberg Air Force Base are allowed to use "deadly force" in some cases...
Nothing new here. I assume that the Air Force treats security in much the same way the Navy does. Think of the security zones like an onion. The closer you get to the center, the likelihood that deadly force might be used against you increases. You'll know when you've exited one "layer" and entered another. There is typically a fence or a wall.
Just don't take it personal when Staff Sargent Iowafarmboy puts a bullet in your head. He's not playing around.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Will they shoot surfers?
one can only hope :)
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Nothing new or unusual here. There are "Use of Deadly Force Authorized" sign's posted all over the U.S. at military facilities. AF Security Forces go to great lengths to ensure these signs can not be missed by would be tresspassors, sabetours (etc etc).
I was a Security Forces dude for 10yrs and have to say... anyone who thinks they are "just" signs with words are screwing with thier own destiny... SF is heavily armed and do not f***k around with what they've been designated to defend... and you better believe there are more than a few who have itchy trigger fingers.
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Originally posted by hawk220
wouldn't it be easy for a terrorist, domestic or foriegn to enter a base during a protest where many are ripping down fences and making distractions? I think its reasonable that the military has explained what could happen if they climb onto the base. I also think its unreasonable to think the protestors have some unspoken exemption or protection just by virtue of their protesting.
Military is authorized to use deadly force now. Heard it on CNN!
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Will they use guns against peace people blockin US bases in Germany after the war has begun?
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
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Originally posted by OZkansas
Military is authorized to use deadly force now. Heard it on CNN!
CNN just woke up to it... I'm willing to bet that there is absolutely no change in policy.
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Originally posted by blitz
Will they use guns against peace people blockin US bases in Germany after the war has begun?
I don't think you understood the post Blitz, they'll use deadly force to protect on base assets and operations. This isn't a new policy.
I'm sure the US will leave it up to the German government to handle any interference off-base. And I'd almost welcome German government interference, be a helluva lot less taxes comin' out of my pocket to defend you ingrates.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I don't think you understood the post Blitz, they'll use deadly force to protect on base assets and operations. This isn't a new policy.
I'm sure the US will leave it up to the German government to handle any interference off-base. And I'd almost welcome German government interference, be a helluva lot less taxes comin' out of my pocket to defend you ingrates.
We are persistant, hope nobody of us doesn't join violence,(don't burn american flags, please), we won't avoid a war but we made our decision :)
Regards Blitz
Bush, please take ya soldiers back from Germany!
We loose lotsa money? Yeah, sure, but can't help about it.
Please use your new friends at Poland and Rumania to store your deadly load. Thx
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
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So much for passive resistance.
Once "protestors" enter a United States military base with the intent to damage equipment or harm personell, they are no longer protestors, but attackers... to be dealt with accordingly, of course.
Warmongering protestors!!! Wait...
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I was training airport fire crews at Whiteman AFB in Missouri a few months ago. The first thing I learned was, “Do not cross the Red Line”! It’s only common sense. Hey, the signs will tell you when you’re about to die. I assume the protesters can read.
Note: This was my first access to an Air Force Base. I was amazed that I was so close to the ammo bunkers. Just the thought that Nukes are just across the runway was a very sobering experience. Anyone with any common sense wouldn’t even try to access a restricted area.
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Originally posted by Ozark
IIt’s only common sense. Hey, the signs will tell you when you’re about to die. I assume the protesters can read.
Same signs are on outside perimeter fence. If they have intent on disrupting anything, they will most likely get sentenced for few years on attempting to sabotage. Helpfully our boys will blow one of those morons’ head off and show example to other liberal rutabagas that type of behavior will not be tolerated.
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Bush, please take ya soldiers back from Germany!
count on it.
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I have no sympathy for anyone shot and/or killed trying to illegally enter a military reservation.
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They can't use rubber bullets against unarmed people?
Is this America's Tiananmen Square?
Whoever the person is in front of the tank, it'll probably be a woman.
I guess Spurious George wants to send a message of who's in charge.
President Death isn't satisfied with just killing Iraqis....now he wants to kill Americans too.
I'm so old I can remember when Republicans loved America...and all it stood for.
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Originally posted by weazel
They can't use rubber bullets against unarmed people?
.
SPs carry only live ammo. Once they cross that line they become lawful combatant.
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Originally posted by weazel
They can't use rubber bullets against unarmed people?
Is this America's Tiananmen Square?
Whoever the person is in front of the tank, it'll probably be a woman.
I guess Spurious George wants to send a message of who's in charge.
President Death isn't satisfied with just killing Iraqis....now he wants to kill Americans too.
I'm so old I can remember when Republicans loved America...and all it stood for.
shut up weazel, you are starting to sound more and more like a handsomehunk every day
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Conservatives embody the very idea of treason. They don't like America.
They actively work everyday to destroy America from within by attempting to squash any kind of debate or criticism of Dubya (who has no respect for working people or our opinions).
This coming from the people who had no problem disrespecting the Office of the President from January 20, 1993-January 20, 2001 with name-calling, lies, and innuendos.....most of which were unfounded.
Everyone is NOT entitled to their point of view.....in the fairy tale land of "conservatives."
Adolph would be proud of you concho.
Originally posted by -Concho-
shut up weazel, you are starting to sound more and more like a handsomehunk every day
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There are plenty of little islands in the pacific. Go start your own country if you like what GW is doing.
or better yet, got protest at your nearest military base
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This is not news. This has been policy since I can remember. It was policy when Reagan was in office, when Bush Sr. was in office and when Clinton was in office. Someone walks up and ask "Would they shoot someone who was trying to destroy sensitive equipment?" The answer would have been "Yes" anytime during the last 2 decades (that I know of... moreso for those that have been there longer).
If you want to see the extent to which this works... look up what happened when protestors tried to lay across train tracks to stop a train that was carrying nuclear weapons. Guess that was about 10-15 years ago... but it would happen again if someone tried the same thing.
MiniD
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If you want to live under a government ran by right wing religious nut jobs.
Originally posted by -Concho-
There are plenty of little islands in the pacific. Go start your own country if you like what GW is doing.
or better yet, got protest at your nearest military base
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Originally posted by blitz
Bush, please take ya soldiers back from Germany!
We loose lotsa money?
But Blitz, who would show your women what a real man is? Think of the poor frauleins!
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Originally posted by -Concho-
There are plenty of little islands in the pacific. Go start your own country if you like what GW is doing.
or better yet, got protest at your nearest military base
We dont want anymore hippys in the pacific thank you. Hard enough disposing those we already have.
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sorry spook, i meant something more... uninhabited
weazel, i'm not going to trade blows with you bud.
i think your and idiot and just wanted to let you know.
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You admit defeat and are tucking your tail and running away?
Typical right winger responses from you.......all insults and no substance.
I could care less about your opinion of me....
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weazel (http://www.southparkstudios.com/down/download.html?file=/media/sounds/204/sp204_hippie.wav)
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We dont want anymore hippys in the pacific thank you.
LOL! Thats right.. i'd almost forgotton where they went! oh, you poor bastards. i thought they all went to idaho.
Hard enough disposing those we already have
well, there's one thing you can do that we couldn't.. you can shoot 'em... ;)
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Originally posted by weazel
Everyone is NOT entitled to their point of view.....in the fairy tale land of "conservatives."
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, they are not entitled to their own facts.
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Originally posted by weazel
If you want to live under a government ran by right wing religious nut jobs.
As opposed to left-wing athiest nut jobs?
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Originally posted by Mini D
This is not news. This has been policy since I can remember. It was policy when Reagan was in office, when Bush Sr. was in office and when Clinton was in office. Someone walks up and ask "Would they shoot someone who was trying to destroy sensitive equipment?" The answer would have been "Yes" anytime during the last 2 decades (that I know of... moreso for those that have been there longer).
If you want to see the extent to which this works... look up what happened when protestors tried to lay across train tracks to stop a train that was carrying nuclear weapons. Guess that was about 10-15 years ago... but it would happen again if someone tried the same thing.
MiniD
What did they do the train protesters?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What did they do the train protesters?
The train did not stop. Most protestors got out of the way.
MiniD
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Most! Muhhhaaaa, sometimes I really appreciate your sense of humor. :D
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Originally posted by -Concho-
shut up weazel, you are starting to sound more and more like a handsomehunk every day
He passed that threshold long ago.
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I accidentally crossed the red lined perimeter at the wrong spot in an Air Force truck once at Carswell AFB when there were B52s there in the '70s. I didn't get far before half the SPs on the base had me surrounded and spread eagled. I have little doubt they'd have shot me on the spot had I resisted. I was so embarrassed at the time I'd almost wish they had.
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I fly out of Quantico Marine Base, they have a secured field within a secured base. Two entrances to the field, one for the actual military personnell and one for the Flying club. Both gates are heavily armed. QMB also services the presidents helo's so on take-off on Rnwy 2 if we drift left of the center line, buh bye. they'll shoot us down. or on landing for 20. there is no left traffic for rnwy 2 only right traffic.
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Definitely not new policy. I was authorized to shoot to kill anyone unknown that did not identify themselves properly. Simple commands to be followed people. Halt. Who goes there? Step forward and identify yourself.
Those commands are not followed, you get a bullet. This was before and during the last time we were in the Gulf.
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Originally posted by weazel
They can't use rubber bullets against unarmed people?
Is this America's Tiananmen Square?
Tiananmen Square is a public place,whereas a military base is a restricted place.
If you trespass on one,you run this risk of getting shot.This is not something new that the Bush Adm. created,it's been going on for a very long time.
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Originally posted by Krusher
one can only hope :)
Jeez, surfing at Jalama Beach is going to get interesting.
Maybe I'll take up wind surfing, faster target yaknow.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
So much for passive resistance.
Once "protestors" enter a United States military base with the intent to damage equipment or harm personell, they are no longer protestors, but attackers... to be dealt with accordingly, of course.
Warmongering protestors!!! Wait...
Where does it say they intend "harm personel" ?
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Tear gas and water cannons work wonders against this type of protesting (Unauthorized entry into a restricted area).
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Originally posted by weazel
Conservatives embody the very idea of treason. They don't like America.
They actively work everyday to destroy America from within by attempting to squash any kind of debate or criticism of Dubya (who has no respect for working people or our opinions).
This coming from the people who had no problem disrespecting the Office of the President from January 20, 1993-January 20, 2001 with name-calling, lies, and innuendos.....most of which were unfounded.
Everyone is NOT entitled to their point of view.....in the fairy tale land of "conservatives."
Adolph would be proud of you concho.
They'll never get it, weazel. When our Bill of Rights and our Constitution are so ammended that our basic freedoms no longer exist, they'll blame the lefty-liberal-socialist-commie-facist-Democrats.
I can see the (Police State) path we're heading down now:
Guilty until proven innocent. Unlimited time in jail until one's court date is set - if there ever will be. Abortion will be illegal with heavy jail time (if not the death penalty for the mother and doctors performing abortions). Pledge of allegience will be mandatory not only at schools, but at all private, and public meetings. All weapons (firearms, bows and arrows, crossbows, hunting type knives, etc) will be outlawed. Books(some) will be banned. Unlimited wiretaps. Internet spies. Snail mail being monitored. Everyone will have to carry ID passes and have them available to show to any security force (Forget your pass, jail time until they have your ID confirmed). ACLU won't exist. Unions won't be around either. Don't think OSHA will either. Creationism will replace evolution in the public schools (if there are any left). Protesting won't be a right, nor will it be tolerated. Heck, this very type of post I'm writing now would probably be cause for an "interview" with "security" police in the future.
Democracy, freedom, dissent, and liberty? Civil Rights? What's that?
Just several things we have to look forward to (Gawd, I hope not). Take away some freedoms, where does one stop? Tough to get back what one has lost especially if the tools for recovery are gone.
I wonder if we'll have to go through "Goose-stepping in unison" class and "Book burning get togethers?"
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Well, I kinda look at it this way. If someone is breaking into your house, are you going to shoot him with a rubber bullet?
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Don't forget your white sheet and hobnailed boots.
The Klan runs the Air Force? WOW. To think I would have never found this out if werent for you. Thanks man!
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
No, its Germany thats safe. You dont want to pour anthrax on the guy your in bed with.
Where does it say they intend "harm personel" ?
Yeah, good point. Let them run free, break some windows, let the air out of some tires, but if they piss in the coffee pot blow a whistle real loud and show them a badge.
Bush, please take ya soldiers back from Germany!
Whats the beer like in Poland?