Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Lizard3 on March 17, 2003, 09:28:58 AM
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now its time to face the music.
washingtontimes.com/national/20030316-24182798.htm (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030316-24182798.htm)
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Not really...can't hear em here :) Local Country Stations threw their stuff out. Maybe they can tour France tho?
:D
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I love the comment about them being anti american, I didn't see and anti american comment. I saw an anti bush comment
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At this time and at that place(overseas) to play to a crowd and express shame at the Commander and Chief of thousands of fellas about to go off to war is, IMO, anti-american. Obviously there are a number of Americans who feel as I do.
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Freedom of speak ?
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Fatty shoulda just kept using her mouth for eating hostess cupcakes.
Cool now dont feel so bad about downloading all those songs.
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its interesting and scary that in a nation founded on dissent, and holds the freedom to say what you feel in supposedly high regard, that this would cause such a big fuss. Its also a shame that they felt they had to apologise for their comments. The message here is that unless you jackboot the party line, you are un American. its so ridiculous.
so much for the 'land of the free'
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Ooooops....
How dare they assume that country music fans would be understanding of dissent!!
A few fans suggested the group change its name to "Terrorist Chicks."
"Dump that anti-America group. Obviously, this group intends to give aid and comfort to a known killer of the innocent,"
Let them go give a concert in Baghdad
In Bossier City, La., KRMD organized a"Dixie Chicks Destruction," running over CDs with a tractor
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midnight Target, those are really frightening quotes,
they aren't really that much different than the Islamic fundamentalists' mindset are they?
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Someday, entertainers will learn that when people see a concert or watch a show, that we don't give a crap about their political opinions. It's bad enough that we have to shell out US$50 to see/hear you perform a song on a CD that we paid US$15 for. We didn't pay to hear you talk politics.
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Freedom goes both ways, she has the freedom to say what she wants.
But you seem to think the fans do not have the freedom to be pissed about it? No one is saying she can't say it, and I am sure she only apoligised cause she was worried about money. I would bet no one made her do it.
The fans have the freedom to toss their CDs, and to dislike the band for making a statement they don't like.
That's the American way...
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Originally posted by hawk220
midnight Target, those are really frightening quotes,
they aren't really that much different than the Islamic fundamentalists' mindset are they?
similar
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The libs often seem to forget that part GtoRA2.
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"Patriotism means to stand by the country,
it does not mean to stand by the President
or any other public official."
- Theodore Roosevelt -
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Freedom goes both ways, she has the freedom to say what she wants.
But you seem to think the fans do not have the freedom to be pissed about it? No one is saying she can't say it, and I am sure she only apoligised cause she was worried about money. I would bet no one made her do it.
The fans have the freedom to toss their CDs, and to dislike the band for making a statement they don't like.
That's the American way...
Exactly what I was going to say. You beat me to it. Freedom at its best.
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Don't often see libs destroying records or burning books because they disagree with the author.
Cons often miss that point.
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Originally posted by weazel
"Patriotism means to stand by the country,
it does not mean to stand by the President
or any other public official."
- Theodore Roosevelt -
Very true. Good quote, but I feel that applies mostly before or after wars begin. Make no mistake, it has begun.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Don't often see libs destroying records or burning books because they disagree with the author.
Cons often miss that point.
I dunno MT, what political persuasion do you suppose that most of the flag burners are?
And what about the bras??? The humanity! ;)
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MT but you have to admit, they have the freedom to do it? Why is it so bad that they are pissed?
They have the freedom to be pissed and to send a message to the band that they are really pissed, what better way to do that then burn the CDs.
Do you get all up in arms when people( good libs) burn a flag?
CDs burning=bad?
Flag burning good?
Why? Cause CDs polute?
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I love the comment about them being anti american, I didn't see and anti american comment. I saw an anti bush comment
Anti-Bush comments are fine, but delivering them to foreign audiences is pretty greasy. Especially when these bimbos are getting rich, largely from Texan fans.
Freedom of speak ?
They still have freedom of speach. But now they have less money. They blew it.
ra
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LOL...
Do you guys honestly think it is the burning that is the point?
Would you agree with the burning of a book because you disagreed with the author? How about all his books? Is there a difference between a book and a CD?
Of course they have the right to disagree with what the Dixie Chubbs said. When people assume that dissent means treason is when they have missed the point of what America is (should be) all about.
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WhereI live country stations pulled thier music as well.
They can say whatever they want. So can the people who dont agree with umm.
They can burn their CDs, boycott theirs shows and radio stations they play their music. None of that impacts their freedom.
Next time the fat one opens her mouth the other 2 will most likely shove a sandwich in it.
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Gto and Iron
yup, you are right that they have the freedom to torch the CDs in protest. so what about jumping to the conclusion that they are 'terrorist chicks' because they said something against the President? so that means that to say anything against the President makes you a terrorist, and all that entails? If so, then there are 140 million terrorists in the US.
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Originally posted by weazel
"Patriotism means to stand by the country,
it does not mean to stand by the President
or any other public official."
- Theodore Roosevelt -
well said theodore
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(http://members.cox.net/jcwest/9065.jpg)
(http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/b/sign.jpg)
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Who said they were terrorists hawk? I wouldn't even say they are terrible, though I don't care for much of their music.
MT, dissent can be treason, depends on the content and how it's acted out.
The Dixie Chicks are guilty of nothing more than bad judgement, and I for one hope they lose their careers over it. They have more money than they'll ever need anyhow.
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Yes they have the right to be stupid. Yes they have the right to mistakenly think they are now Terrorist chicks, or whatever.
Do you really think the person who said the "terrorist Chicks" Thing, thinks they are now terrorists?
I think the fan said it cause it is a funny take on the bands name. But even if I am wrong they have the right to believe it.
People in the U.S. Have the right to say dumb things. This is new to you and seem anti American or wrong?
Hey MT, and as long as they paid for the books, burning them in my eyes is fine, just as long as they don't try and burn mine.
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good thing we live in a capitalist society, once they put out another hit in 6 months all the people boycotting them now will be buying it up.
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what'd you expect from the Dixie Chicks?
(I refuse to comment on fat chicks)
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What sort of dumb sh(* would spout off a "liberal" view to what has been a tradionaly conservative group..ie country music fans.
She outta get at least an honorable mention in "tard" of the year awards.
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Gto
saying dumb things is as American as apple pie. what I'm saying is that its a rather fine line between saying dumb things and burning CDs and books in anger and burning people. Rewind to Germany in the late 30's. Think I'm being inflammatory and outrageous? it happened before and could get that way again.
Iron, I was reffering to one of the quotes about 'terrorist chicks' in MTs message.
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That she apologized...typical spineless liberal.
I'm ashamed not only that chimpy is from Texas...but that he's allowed to be called an American, obviously he could care less about the principles that made this nation great.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive.
—Thomas Jefferson
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i for one am getting sick of the fundamentalists in this country. they sound like a bunch of nazis and muslims. the whole "if your not with us your against us" is a line the fundamentalist love to use.
This country really could have used another TR about now. We almost had one in McCain, but he wasnt easy to control so his party ran him out of the presidential race. Instead we get quotes like this from the guy a minority of americans voted for.
"there ought to be limits to our freedoms" -George w.bush
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
i for one am getting sick of the fundamentalists in this country. they sound like a bunch of nazis and muslims. the whole "if your not with us your against us" is a line the fundamentalist love to use.
Better watch the Muslim bashing, they'll pull your lib card.
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Let me point out the difference to you folks.
People here have said that they would like to see them leave, they have said that they will not buy their stuff anymore.
No one has decided to kill them.
The government hasn't condoned their deaths...etc...
There is a difference between disagreeing with someone's statements and taking personal action to withdraw support...and targeting them for death or torture.
If people here decide to burn their CD's, it's because they are still for sale in the U.S. and those people will have to buy them first (stupidly supporting them financially in order to make a symbolic statement but whatever)
want to point out the similarities to me?
Originally posted by midnight Target
similar
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hey Iron, you said earlier
"The libs often seem to forget that part GtoRA2."
this has me wondering about the guys here.
tho I don't consider myself a lib, I sometimes take lib views. and sometimes very conservative views. do all/some/few take opinions based primarily on how they view themselves? lib/con. or are opinions based on the case?
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Originally posted by hawk220
hey Iron, you said earlier
"The libs often seem to forget that part GtoRA2."
this has me wondering about the guys here.
tho I don't consider myself a lib, I sometimes take lib views. and sometimes very conservative views. do all/some/few take opinions based primarily on how they view themselves? lib/con. or are opinions based on the case?
Hawk, are you attempting irony here? It seems you're suggesting that I or many judge based on something said here and at the same time ask me to speak for others?
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Branding someone a traitor for making a comment in opposition to the policies of the Government is the similarity Kanth.
That is a plain as day.
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Do you say the same thing about burning the flag? That it is a fine line, from that to roasting people in ovens?
I think you are very wrong.
I do not think any of these fans would consider killing people over this, or most issues, hell they are pissed cause they see this band in support of Sadam instead of Bush. Are they wrong? Yes they are, I am 100% sure the Dixie chicks do not like sadam, though they probably do not want to see war over him.
I think you would have to go much further then book or CD burning to approach the insanity that was Nazi Germanys final solution.
I would be more worried about the Political correctness roadkill that wants us all to only think Nice happy thoughts, and is editing "bad words" like jungle and Mother Russia from our school books.
SO again, that is not a fine line, it is a huge gulf, that no reasonable person should be able to cross.
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Hell I agree on the typical spineless part..
Not the rest though, well, not completely, lol.
Did your Pontiac come through the fire ok?
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actually Iron it was an honest question, and i figured others would chime in with what they thought.
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so if I say that I think you are a traitor then I'm just like an islamic fundementalist?
you don't think that's a stretch at all?
Originally posted by midnight Target
Branding someone a traitor for making a comment in opposition to the policies of the Government is the similarity Kanth.
That is a plain as day.
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no you sound more like a nazi then a fundamentalist
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So their opponents should bite their tongues and not speak so that two's freedom of speech may be protected?
I could care less about the dixie chicks, if I did their statements would hardly influence whether or not I bought their CDs (if I tossed out all my CDs whose artists I disagreed with I don't think I'd have any left). Are you seriously suggesting those that do are trampling on their free speech? Come on.
Boycotting them is silly, as is their assumption that anyone really cares what they think in the first place, but neither of those is a trampling of anyone's rights. I'm off to more important issues, namely my NCAA brackets.
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:D stop it! i'm reeling
Originally posted by Frogm4n
no you sound more like a nazi then a fundamentalist
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arizona all the way fatty
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Well, all the way until they meet Duke.
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so angry i cant even type my oppinion.
they are still free for a while yet.
you bush supporters cannot fathom the hatred the other 95% of the world has for him. i can understand you as weak minded followers. if i think of it like that.
this guy stands for
threat to my citizenship thru rape of constitution
torture
religious wacky born again crap
deserted the military
more calculated lies than you can even consider in one sitting.
i can go on and on these few are more than enough.
he must go and anything he has a hand in must fail.
for the good of the nation.
that is what you are up against with about 95% of the planet. not just france look at the world news if you dont think so.
saddam pails in comparison to bush in dangerousness in my oppinion and most others i speak to. you just cant seem to get this thru your heads. read it again and think about what it means.
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Originally posted by hawk220
actually Iron it was an honest question, and i figured others would chime in with what they thought.
Fair enough, and I do know that most folks are as you described and not completely brainwashed by whatever politcal affiliation. Emotions are running high right now and for good reason.
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rgr that Iron
I hope that once the toejam hits the fan, regardless of what anyone thinks of the war or the President, all will give their support to the boys in harm's way.
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I think a right wing nut-bag is similar to an Islamic fundamentalist, yes.
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Who would you say is a "Right wing nut bag".
Anyone on this board?
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so angry i cant even type my oppinion.
You got 'my' right.
Branding someone a traitor for making a comment in opposition to the policies of the Government is the similarity Kanth.
Many of their fans are pissed off about what they said in a foreign country at a delicate moment, so they are responding angrily in many ways. If they feel like labeling them 'traitors', or 'potatos' for that matter, then so be it. 1st amendment, remember? Only the state can brand someone a traitor in a meaningful way. If they are arrested upon return to the US and charged with treason, then I am right there with you. Otherwise, they are just getting what they earned from their fans.
ra
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I think a right wing nut-bag is similar to an Islamic fundamentalist, yes.
Fair enough, and I also think a sniveling pinko leftist is similar to an oppresive communist. Hey, we're not talking about anyone on this bb are we?
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It was next to the house and the chimney fell on the hood. :(
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Man that sucks, is it fixable?
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
This country really could have used another TR about now. We almost had one in McCain, but he wasnt easy to control so his party ran him out of the presidential race.
McCain would have pulled the trigger on Iraq 6 months ago without even bothering to consult with the UN, and he would have been praised for it.
Bush is doing the right thing, although taking too long to do it. Look past the man and even for weazel, its not that bad afterall.
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All my comments were based upon the quotes from the article.
Any accusation of existing BBS users was unintentional.
:cool:
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Don't often see libs destroying records or burning books because they disagree with the author.
Cons often miss that point.
Thats because, in the US at least, the libs are often that ones making sure that those records arent cut or those books published. :)
Seriously tho, you didnt see the Lib reaction to Trent Lott's offhand remarks about Strom Thurmond's long ago presidential campaign? You'd have thought that Lott had proposed the reinstitution of racial segregation throughout the US!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Don't often see libs destroying records or burning books because they disagree with the author.
Of course not ! The libs just sue to get the books thrown out....
And it is funny how you support burning the US flag in protest but are appaled when somebody burns some pop music CD... I could call you names and all that MT but if you dont see the hypocricy in your stance then there is nothing to say.
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Vader you've just tied Weazel for the "Dipshit of the Year" award.
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Internal dissent is fine, you dont agree with something our leadership is doing, you have the right, and I would say almost a responsibility to speak up. BUT SPEAK UP IN HOUSE. Do not go in front of other nations and complain or criticize.
If I am mad at my brother, I can talk to him at his house or mine and tell him just what I think. He will listen, maybe understand, and he might even respect my opinion. It won't cause a big problem. Now on the other hand, if I go around telling others how I think my brother is messed up, wrong or a jerk, he might get mighty mad and I would be wrong to do it that way.
Thats the problem with what Natalie did, she didn't keep her stupid comment in-house, rather she pandered to the Euro audience, looking for quick acceptance. Too bad she lacks the courage to stand by her country and it's leaders through thick and thin.
dago
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Originally posted by Turdboy
Vader you've just tied Weazel for the "Dipshit of the Year" award.
Not the first time they've been close.
Both were obviouslly sexually abused during childhood. I blame society.
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Country Music.... heheheh... 2 gitars, 3 chords and lyricks about author's inability to score with chicks :)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Of course not ! The libs just sue to get the books thrown out....
And it is funny how you support burning the US flag in protest but are appaled when somebody burns some pop music CD... I could call you names and all that MT but if you dont see the hypocricy in your stance then there is nothing to say.
Before I comment, you have every right to burn your CD's or books. Burning books (CD's or any other intellecual product) is different than burning a flag however, for the following reasons:
Burning a flag is a statement that leaves you without a flag. It is a desecration of a symbol, and a statement that reaffirms that the people are the true power of a free country, and not the government.
Burning books is a statement that eliminates an idea. If done on a grand scale it makes the statement that a thought or idea is wrong or illegal.
I hope this helps.
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well articulated MT
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But in this case, it is not book burning on a grand scale, so it works the same, the fans are sending a strong statement to the band.
Nothing wrong with that.
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I would think that they'd change name to "Hollywood Chicks" and move there now; probably also pose as victims of censorship, make millions.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Burning books is a statement that eliminates an idea. If done on a grand scale it makes the statement that a thought or idea is wrong or illegal.
I hope this helps.
Or, burning a book is a statement about a statement. Some statements, like people, are in fact wrong. That is why we are going into Iraq after all. I believe you have the right to be wrong, just so long as you let me be right. And remember, that while two wrongs don't make a right, three lefts do.
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As a concerned American citizen, I apologize to President Bush because my remark was disrespectful. I now realize that whoever holds that office should be treated with the utmost respect.
I hope everyone understands, I'm just a young girl who grew up in Texas. As far back as I can remember, I heard people say they were ashamed of President Clinton.
I saw bumper stickers calling him everything from a pothead to a murderer. I heard people on the radio and tv like Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott bad mouthing the President and ridiculing his wife and daughter at every opportunity.
I heard LOTS of people disrespecting the President. So I guess I just assumed it was acceptable behavior.
But now, thanks to the thousands of angry people who want radio stations to boycott our music because criticizing the President is unpatriotic, I realize it's wrong to have a liberal opinion if you're a country music artist.
I guess I should have thought about that before deciding to play music that attracts hypocritical red necks.
I also realize now that I'm supposed to just sing and look cute so our fans won't have anything to upset them while they're cheating on their wives or getting in drunken bar fights or driving around in their pickup trucks shooting highway signs and small animals.
And most important of all, I realize that it's wrong for a celebrity to voice a political opinion, unless they're Charlie Daniels, Clint Black, Merle Haggard, Barbara Mandrell, Loretta Lynn, Ricky Skaggs, Travis Tritt, Hank Williams Jr, Amy Grant, Larry Gatlin, Crystal Gayle, Reba McEntire, Lee Greenwood, Lorrie Morgan, Mike Oldfield, Ted Nugent, Wayne Newton, Dick Clark, Jay Leno, Drew Carey, Dixie Carter, Victoria Jackson, Charleton Heston, Fred Thompson, Ben Stein, Bruce Willis, Kevin Costner, Arnold Schwartzenegger, Bo Derek, Rick Schroeder, George Will, Pat Buchanan, Bill O'Reilly, Joe Rogan, Delta Burke, Robert Conrad or Jesse Ventura.
God Bless America,
Natalie
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She can sing whatever she wants. Just don't expect to sell anything. She can go to the bulldozer front in gaza and hand them out to the protestors.
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You guys need Mc Carthy back to deal with the Evil Ones :D
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
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Originally posted by AKIron
Or, burning a book is a statement about a statement. Some statements, like people, are in fact wrong. That is why we are going into Iraq after all. I believe you have the right to be wrong, just so long as you let me be right. And remember, that while two wrongs don't make a right, three lefts do.
I'm guessing you're bored.
:)
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Someday, entertainers will learn that when people see a concert or watch a show, that we don't give a crap about their political opinions. It's bad enough that we have to shell out US$50 to see/hear you perform a song on a CD that we paid US$15 for. We didn't pay to hear you talk politics.
Aint it the truth? I wont watch a movie with Alec Baldwin in it now.
Or one with Martin Sheen either. too name just a few that have lost my ticket monies Maybe the cuddlinghunkes will listen to thier agents a little more closely when they say things that 75% of Americans disagree with.
Yeah straffo they can say whatever the hell they want(free speech), they may lose 75% of thier profit base by doing it
though. America is a very fickle nation. Our buying power speaks volumes too. Some americans wont ever forgive them. I will, I think shes just a stupid blonde. At least she was smart enuff to say she was sorry...(weather she was or not)
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One point to ponder is that, despite the uproar they generated, which may hurt sales of their "music" for awhile, the Dixie Chicks can return to the U.S. in safety. They may be booed or egged on occasion, but the hoopla will die down and they will return to business as usual.
I DOUBT the same could be said for any Iraqi dissenter who made a similar comment about Saddam while visiting a foreign country.
By the way, American fundamentalists may be outspoken, but they do not have the reputation of blowing up innocent civilians. It's hypocritical to defend the Dixie Chick's right of free speech in one breath and condemn a different group for doing the same in the next breath. At the very least that's bigotry.
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by Kanth
\
If people here decide to burn their CD's, it's because they are still for sale in the U.S. and those people will have to buy them first (stupidly supporting them financially in order to make a symbolic statement but whatever)
Maybe the were burning the ones they already had :D
Kinda tarded to buy one to burn it. Maybe the companies that
sell the CDs and the radio stations were burning thiers.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
you bush supporters cannot fathom the hatred the other 95% of the world has for him. i can understand you as weak minded followers. if i think of it like that.
He has a 60% approval rating on his stand on Iraq.
And what the rest of the world thinks is irrelevant to me.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I'm guessing you're bored.
:)
I gotta put together a training session for Outlook and I'll find just about any excuse to avoid getting back to it. :)
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Originally posted by weazel
.... As far back as I can remember, I heard people say they were ashamed of President Clinton......
God Bless America,
Natalie
Natalie
I still am ashamed, hell I'm embarrased at Clinton... but look you stupid squeak, it's not about what you said, it's about where you said it. STFU already.
:D
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Originally posted by straffo
Freedom of speak ?
While I realize and sympathize that you are french, are you really that stupid??
Was she arrested for her comment? NO
Some kind of government censure? NO
She exercised her freedom of speech to express an opinion, perfectly legal.
Then a whole lot of other Americans excerised thier freedom of speech to let her know what they thought of her opinion.
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CNN vote running 2-1 against the Dixie Chicks
Created: Sun Mar 16 17:20:31 EST 2003
Are fans unfairly punishing the Dixie Chicks for Natalie Maines' comments about President Bush?
Yes 31% 34803 votes
No 63% 69835 votes
Who are the Dixie Chicks? 6% 6590 votes
Total: 111,228 votes
This QuickVote is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, nor the public as a whole. The QuickVote sponsor is not responsible for content, functionality or the opinions expressed therein.
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X2Lee && CavemanJ I agree that the people oposing the view of the chicks can do what they want but my lecture of the event is different and more general.
Why should an artist be banned of every radio just because of a different opinion ?
If another opinion as no way to voice it's the instant the freedom of speach dissapear, you agree ?
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Because the stations listeners cxalled in and asked them to stop playing the songs... Some stations agreed and others did not. Wow the wonder of a free society, frightening isnt...
The govt didnt ban it, people just got pissed and voiced their opinion about demonstrating against her comments.
I do understand how this confuses you strafoo as you livin a country whose president is telling whole nations to shut up and not even voice their opionios at all.
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I dunno...as far as I can tell boycotting their CDs over what she said might have been too much...but to each his own.
Yeah, what she said and where she said it didn't bode well for her. Freedom of speech protected her in that sense. But boycotting CDs and burning flags are two different things.
The way I see (and it's skewed...I'm young...so sue me) is that buring CDs is a way of showing you are against a particualr artist or producer or something. They've pissed you off to the point where you and your friends are willing to no longer give them money. Fair enough, right? But flag burning demonstrates you do not like the way the goverment of that country has done something you dislike. In a sense, flag burning is only a way for popsicle-assed people to prove they're bigger than that country by burning the flag. Yeah, to us the flag is a symbol...and we see it as a thing to respect. But in reality...what in essence are the "terrorists" doing besides burning a flag and feeling big about themselves? Are we phisically or emotionally hurt by it? Sure, we may feel angry...but we as citizens can't do anything but watch.
Oh well...nothing to do now but wait and see.
(Forgive me...I'm young...does that mean I can have a reprieve from the flames? :D)
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Originally posted by straffo
X2Lee && CavemanJ I agree that the people oposing the view of the chicks can do what they want but my lecture of the event is different and more general.
Why should an artist be banned of every radio just because of a different opinion ?
If another opinion as no way to voice it's the instant the freedom of speach dissapear, you agree ?
The artist wasn't banned. The radio stations, after complaints from their listener base, chose not to play their music. I don't know how they run things in France, but this is free enterprise.
Case in point:
Dixie Chicks offend me, so I decide to boycott their music.
I call station A and B and tell them I'm boycotting Dixie Chicks.
Station B makes the decision to stop playing their music, due to listener calls.
Station A continues to play it.
I'm listening to station B.
If a business wants to make money, they follow their consumer. That's why boycotting works.
An artist has every right to voice their opinion, just like I do. They have to realize, that no matter what their opinion is, they are going to offend a portion of their listener base. If they choose to voice that opinion, they may lose a portion of their fans.
It's up to them to decide what is more important. Voicing their opinion and running the risk of reducing their earnings, voicing their opinion in a manner that is less offensive (many artists voice their opinions with less backlash, it was mostly the words she chose and the forum she said it in), or keep it to herself.
There is no wrong answer.
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Originally posted by texace
I dunno...as far as I can tell boycotting their CDs over what she said might have been too much...but to each his own.
Yeah, what she said and where she said it didn't bode well for her. Freedom of speech protected her in that sense. But boycotting CDs and burning flags are two different things.
The way I see (and it's skewed...I'm young...so sue me) is that buring CDs is a way of showing you are against a particualr artist or producer or something. They've pissed you off to the point where you and your friends are willing to no longer give them money. Fair enough, right? But flag burning demonstrates you do not like the way the goverment of that country has done something you dislike. In a sense, flag burning is only a way for popsicle-assed people to prove they're bigger than that country by burning the flag. Yeah, to us the flag is a symbol...and we see it as a thing to respect. But in reality...what in essence are the "terrorists" doing besides burning a flag and feeling big about themselves? Are we phisically or emotionally hurt by it? Sure, we may feel angry...but we as citizens can't do anything but watch.
Oh well...nothing to do now but wait and see.
(Forgive me...I'm young...does that mean I can have a reprieve from the flames? :D)
To me, flag burning is hipocritical. Here's why.
Protesting your government is fine. It's your right as an American.
The flag is a symbol of our country. It isn't a symbol of republicans, democrats, green party, or the judicial system. As an american burning the flag, you are showing your hatred for it, and all that it stands for. Including yourself. And you are using the freedoms that the flag provides you to do it.
If you hate the country, then move. If you hate the government, then protest it. Or better yet, do something to change it. Run for office.
Burning the flag is disrespecting yourself, me, and my ancestors that worked to make this country what it is. I will, and have, take care of any flag burning that take place in front of me.
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Send all your dixie chic CD's to France...that will show them for not backing their allies. :D
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So you find completly normal to have some people phone to your radio and dictate what you have to listen ?
It's weird :(
And how can you assume that the people phoning are anything else than the more vocal ?
@GRUN : our democraty work fine ,thanks.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I do understand how this confuses you strafoo as you livin a country whose president is telling whole nations to shut up and not even voice their opionios at all.
Pot to kettle, pot to kettle: you're black, over.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Don't often see libs destroying records or burning books because they disagree with the author.
Cons often miss that point.
I would think the PC crowd, worried about Huckleberry Finn's use of the "N" word, and other such literary issues {those issues that tend to hurt peoples feelings} would tend to be toward the left side of the spectrum...
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Originally posted by straffo
So you find completly normal to have some people phone to your radio and dictate what you have to listen ?
It's weird :(
And how can you assume that the people phoning are anything else than the more vocal ?
@GRUN : our democraty work fine ,thanks.
Radio stations WANT you to call in so they know what to play to please their listeners. It's called free enterprise, that's why it's weird to you.
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Nothing like a good tentative of name calling.
You forgot to say : "Commie bastard".
Try to answer this question :
And how can you assume that the people phoning are anything else than the more vocal ?
You can also think a bit about this sentence :
"Majority minus one is allways wrong"
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Again, you are obviously a stranger to true freedom. In the U.S., we have choices. Most things develope through a vote of some kind.
If you want laws made that follow your train of thought, you vote for the politician that is most similar to you.
If you want laws passed, you vote in the referendum.
If you want the lobster roll back at McD's, you write them a letter.
If you want radio stations to play your music, you give them a call.
If you don't want to be part of the "majority -1", then you cast your ballot. If you aren't vocal, then you have noone to blame but yourself when things don't go your way.
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I do understand how this confuses you strafoo as you livin a country whose president is telling whole nations to shut up and not even voice their opionios at all.
Classic Grunherzian sig material.
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So if I follow you logic if a dictator got 51 vote of 100 all is fine ?
It's very weird.
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Originally posted by straffo
So if I follow you logic if a dictator got 51 vote of 100 all is fine ?
It's very weird.
Why is that weird? If the majority wanted him in, then he should serve. If after his 4 year term they no longer want him, then he's out. If he is completely failing in his role, then he is removed from office.
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I wrote a dictator ! not a president !
May I remind you that Hitler was elected ?
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Originally posted by straffo
So you find completly normal to have some people phone to your radio and dictate what you have to listen ?
It's weird :(
And how can you assume that the people phoning are anything else than the more vocal ?
@GRUN : our democraty work fine ,thanks.
So how many WW2 Nazi songs play on french radio? And if a station played them how long would it get away with it without drewing ire from the public. An exaggerated example but I think
you can see.
Well you prolly choose not to but thats your problem..
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Originally posted by straffo
I wrote a dictator ! not a president !
May I remind you that Hitler was elected ?
You don't need to remind me. While I'm not an expert, I'm familiar with much of history.
I guess I just fail to see your point. You asked what would happen under our system if a dictator was elected. I told you. I didn't even get into the "we wouldn't elect a dictator" argument.
I then told you what would happen if he didn't fulfill his duties. We don't elect "dictators". Once he won the election, he would become a president. You cannot be "Dictator of the United States of America". Unless the country wanted to change it's name.
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Originally posted by straffo
May I remind you that Hitler was elected ?
BS Cough BS.... Well he was elected in the sense Saddam Hussein was elected a few months ago. I believe the referundum on his dictatorship turned out some 98.7% Ja!
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not the first time (but I'll verify it's time to eat here).
My point : is you should be more tolerant and not use censure !
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So what did you find noteworthy in that Dowding, Chirac openly told half of eastern europe to shut up about their pro USA opinions of the war or face reprecussions in the EU application process... '
But Dowding I'm sure you will give us all a facinating postive spin to the whole thing on how France is good and the USA is evil - I cant wait...
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Originally posted by straffo
not the first time (but I'll verify it's time to eat here).
My point : is you should be more tolerant and not use censure !
Either you have trouble choosing the right words in English, so you say things not quite how you mean to same them, or you are really not that bright.
THEY WEREN'T CENSORED.
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Originally posted by straffo
My point : is you should be more tolerant and not use
censure !
roadkill strafool.
You said you supported Chirac and he told millions of newly free former communisim opressed east europeans to shut up or face the consquences. I will not allow you to get away with this hipocrisy now.
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point me this post GRUN.
@martlet : this is my interpretation but I can be wrong ,it won't be the 1st time I make an error.
Un seul mauvais exemple, une fois donné, est capable de corrompre toute une nation, et l'habitude devient une tyrannie.
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Your interpretation is not altogether incorrect, but it really doesn't fit. There are many examples of "politics gone wrong" in the U.S. but it doesn't mean they all become tyrants.
Are you familiar with how our form of democracy works? We have many checks and balances in place. While they don't keep every thing perfect, they keep things from going over the edge.
You also can't be familiar with the mindset of the majority of American's. We just would not live under tyranny. It's not in our nature.
I'm not familiar with "corrempre".
Pour voir la tyrannie, est d'observer l'absence de la démocratie.
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Never said the "contraire" Martlet.
It's just a reminder of how thing can degenerate.
Democratie should be on the act of the citizen not in what the state pretent to be (or in this case China would be a democratia ....).
Dunno if you see my point clearer now ,it's pretty hard for me to express some complex opinion in a foreign language.
corrompre == corrupt.
it's a citation from Voltaire.
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Originally posted by straffo
Why should an artist be banned of every radio just because of a different opinion ?
If another opinion as no way to voice it's the instant the freedom of speach dissapear, you agree ?
If the "owner" of the station does not want to play thier records does he not have that right?
No its not what they said its where they said it.
Makes them look like traitors even tho they are not.
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Never said a owner should play song he don't want to play, it's his property and provided it's legal he can do whatever he want.
For exemple a french radio owner can play/ban whatever music he want ... but if he try to play Nazi anthem he would be soon in trouble (legally).
What I question is the influence of some more vocal people.
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Again, this is why democracy works.
Si une station par radio changeait c'est politique en raison d'une minorité vocale, alors la majorité silencieuse serait malheureuse.
Ils cesseraient d'écouter la radio. Elle perdrait l'argent, et change en la façon dont elle était avant.
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Originally posted by straffo
What I question is the influence of some more vocal people.
Yes the vocal minority carries a lot of wieght here in America
Look at the "gay groups" they say its roughly 10% of americans
They are always getting thier way here.
But these girls are not censured. Other stations will play thier music. And some stores will still crry thier CDs. And people who like them still will play them on thier cdplayers. Almost every American has CD players....
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I know it`s a tad bit off topic, but country "music" sucks hairy goat balls.
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Irony. Delicious irony, Grunherz.
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I dont know about the argument, but there's a thing that amaze me.
I have read in the beginning of the thread that someone crushed/burned this group CDs...
But he had to buy it, no?
Is'nt funny, ironic?
:)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
BS Cough BS.... Well he was elected in the sense Saddam Hussein was elected a few months ago. I believe the referundum on his dictatorship turned out some 98.7% Ja!
see here http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GER1933.htm
I think we were not speaking of the same event, I thought of the 1933 election.
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Originally posted by straffo
X2Lee && CavemanJ I agree that the people oposing the view of the chicks can do what they want but my lecture of the event is different and more general.
Why should an artist be banned of every radio just because of a different opinion ?
If another opinion as no way to voice it's the instant the freedom of speach dissapear, you agree ?
Ok, I think I get what you're saying now. But the 3-4 posts following the post I quoted seemed to have splained it well enough.
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Caveman that's why the last time I spoke politic with a fellow american in france we ended completly drunk ....
and before feeling asleep I'm pretty sure we were speaking the same language :D
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Well straffo, the whole freedom of speech arguement only applies when it's the G'ment trying to suppress opinions. So it doesn't really apply to this.
The people here decide what's hot and what's not, who's a star and who's a want-to-be/has-been/never-was. That's the thing with being a celebrity over here. You piss off the masses and you're pretty much done for, because people will stop spending money on that celebrity's products (CDs, concert tickets, etc). Enough drop in popularity = end of celebrity's career. Such is the hazard of a 'public life' here, the American public is a very fickle beast.
Naso it's only ironic if you go out and buy the CD for the sole purpose of burning it. I'll wager 95% of the people who were trashing thier CDs had purchased them some time before the offending remark was said. The John Q Public hears about what she said and decides he's no longer going to support the Dixie Chics, and wants the group to know it, so he takes the CD's he bought a few months ago and joins others in a public gathering, destroying thier CDs.
And I'm sure there were some people who went out and bought the CD just to trash it.
Dowding I'm starting to wonder about you.. here lately you seem to make less and less sense with each post.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
If the "owner" of the station does not want to play thier records does he not have that right?
Interesting point..
Since radio frequencies are controlled by the FCC I would imagine that the owner of a station may be limited in the amount of censure he may employ. I could be wrong though.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Interesting point..
Since radio frequencies are controlled by the FCC I would imagine that the owner of a station may be limited in the amount of censure he may employ. I could be wrong though.
Everyone knows that the RCAA and the FCC are in cahoots to control the media, and through this, the governement. Eisenhower warned us of this "Entertainer-Corporate complex" back in the 50s, but we just never listened.
Ooops, I gotta go, I'm late for my LaRouche 2004 rally!
-Sik
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Since radio frequencies are controlled by the FCC I would imagine that the owner of a station may be limited in the amount of censure he may employ. I could be wrong though.
You would be wrong when it comes to playing entertainment content. Those country stations would probably never play rap music for example. It's not censorship. Or censureship. They can play what they want, within obsenity laws, etc., and not play what they want. The Dixie Chicks alienated a large chunk of their fan base, and the radio stations are responding.
ra
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Originally posted by Martlet
To me, flag burning is hipocritical. Here's why.
Protesting your government is fine. It's your right as an American.
The flag is a symbol of our country. It isn't a symbol of republicans, democrats, green party, or the judicial system. As an american burning the flag, you are showing your hatred for it, and all that it stands for. Including yourself. And you are using the freedoms that the flag provides you to do it.
If you hate the country, then move. If you hate the government, then protest it. Or better yet, do something to change it. Run for office.
Burning the flag is disrespecting yourself, me, and my ancestors that worked to make this country what it is. I will, and have, take care of any flag burning that take place in front of me.
I'll go to my grave defending the right of U.S. citizens to burn the Stars and Stripes. I'll also continue to not only defend, but exercise my right of free speech (a right to many people tend to believe as "free") to say people who live in the United States and wish to burn the Flag..... are one of, if not the most, ridiculous spectacles of stupidity and hypocrisy there are. Seriously.. all I can do is laugh at them :D
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Originally posted by straffo
Caveman that's why the last time I spoke politic with a fellow american in france we ended completly drunk ....
and before feeling asleep I'm pretty sure we were speaking the same language :D
The language of LOVE? :D
(sorry straffo... you opened the door, I just couldn't resist hehe)
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Originally posted by Dowding
Irony. Delicious irony, Grunherz.
Oh I diasgree. I'm assuming you mean to compare that to what america and Bush are doing. We arent telling anyone to shut up alltogether and not voice their opinion or face getting kicked out of the UN. Were just asking for their support and if they wont give it to us we will just do it by ourselves. If they disagree we will just not that and move forward in knowledge that we are right and that we must act in our self defence.
Again i ackgnowlege you may have dificulty seeing this through your bush hatred biut it's plainly obvious that we arent telling countries to shut up, were just trying to argue our case.
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Originally posted by Tumor
The language of LOVE? :D
(sorry straffo... you opened the door, I just couldn't resist hehe)
I didn't open anything !
hmmm ...I've trouble sleeping since this time .... perhaps should I see a psychiatre ? ;)
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Originally posted by fd ski
Country Music.... heheheh... 2 gitars, 3 chords and lyricks about author's inability to score with chicks :)
That would be GUITARS and LYRICS. Perhaps you should have spent more time in class and less time listening to Hip Hop.
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Originally posted by straffo
Freedom of speak ?
Yes, freedom of speach and also freedom to chose who's records one buys.
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By the by, I resent this group being called the "Dixie Hicks."
Most of the "hicks" I know support our troops AND the President during time of war. They might criticize Bush in private conversation, but they wouldn't be crass enough to do it overseas in front of foreigners.
Maybe they need to change their name...wonder what would be a good one for them?
Shuckins
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"Hollywood Liberals" comes to mind, dunno how much of a future they have among country music fans. It's pretty much right of center fan base.
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Originally posted by Rasker
"Hollywood Liberals" comes to mind, dunno how much of a future they have among country music fans. It's pretty much right of center fan base.
...but not necessarily one with a very long memory.
F.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Maybe they need to change their name...wonder what would be a good one for them?
I recommend "Unemployed Chicks"
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AkIron,
That works for me!
Regards, Shuckins
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Dixie Chicks-"Takes a big mouth to sing country and it helps alot when inserting both feet!"
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hmm, I wonder if they could do a lot of USO touring in Iraq as a penance, or would the troops hoot em off the stage? :)