Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunthr on March 17, 2003, 02:51:06 PM
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:p
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"Paris, enh?? that's just gonna make everybodys day..."
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Got me...now pull this hook out and put me back!
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poor saddam , he will now have to eat stinky cheese and drink sour french wine.
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I bet Chirac is worried. I think Saddam may beat him in the next election.
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ROFLMAO! I think they split the "worm" vote; hopes rise for a non-"worm" government
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I doubt it. Chirac is actually representing public opinion.
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say, is France actually still in NATO? I recall DeGaulle pulled them out of the military portion of the alliance in '62 or so. Did they rejoin, if so when? Could we reform the alliance under another name, and just not invite them? :) say, NewTO?
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Vive le Saddam!
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I doubt it. Chirac is actually representing public opinion.
Thats unfortunet. Why do you think that is? Selfishness, popularity, the desire to win another election. Public opinion amounts to little more than feelings based on spoon fed information instead of well informed decisions.
Bad for the Frenchman, good for the worm.
On the other hand what MR. Blair did, THAT took a huge set of brass ones. His carreer might have well gone down the crapper but what he did he did for his country not for himself so he could stay in power.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Well ... what can you say to that?
Oh ... 4 x Le Triomphant SSBN x 16 M45 SLBM = 64 US cities vaporized.
Perspective ...
LOL moron, the correct formula looks like this:
4 x Le Triomphant SSBN + War with US = 4 ex- Le Triomphant SSBN imploded hulks at the bottom of the ocean.
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lol hortlund..where Blitzy boy
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are you sure ?
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Originally posted by GScholz
LOL! You simply don't understand how difficult it is to locate a modern sub these days. Hell even the Russians can routinely evade the USN now.
I know enough about modern naval combat thankyouverymuch.
Lets just say that the French submarines does not impress me. And your analysis of the Russian subs and their ability to evade the USN... nah, lets not go there shall we.
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I'll see your sub and raise ya a few trillion dollars "star wars" system you only think was unsuccessful.
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Originally posted by GScholz
LOL! You simply don't understand how difficult it is to locate a modern sub these days. Hell even the Russians can routinely evade the USN now.
The Russians you say? Care to point to yer source of this nonsense?
What I see of the french boats are 4 warm spots on the ocean floor.
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gawd.. wouldn't that be fun?
there are no french boats that are a threat.. above or below the surface. and i'd bet my months pay all 4 of those french nukes have a SSN in trail right now.
about the only boat the ruski's ever produced that was a pain in the bellybutton for us was the lil diesel kilo's.
and they can stay hidden only as long as their air and batts last... maybe 2 days tops.. at less than 5 knots. any faster, and we've got 'em pegged.. run the diesel to recharge.. pegged. makes for a pretty decent coastal defense weapon, but this sure ain't a blue water attack boat like a Los Angeles Class SSN.
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hmm Groton Connecticut, the Vatican City of submarining :)
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unfortunately for them, they can't afford to run it.
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i just love it when the US think their armed forces are invincible
I remember a boat called the USS COLE with a big hole in the side.....
A rubber dingy with tnt did that :D
ever heard og a consept called asymetric warfare?
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The Akula is the quietest Russian nuclear submarine ever designed, and the low noise levels came as a surprise to Western intelligence. Russia claims the Akula is the quietest of its domestically built submarines and is fitted with acoustic countermeasure equipment. Noise reduction efforts include rafting the propulsion plant, anechoic tiles on the outside and inside of the hulls and possibly other measures such as active noise cancellation. Nonetheless, the American Improved Los Angeles class retained a decisive edge in silencing compared to the Akuka I. The Project 971A Akula II incorporated an improved double layer silencing system for the power train. According to Russian sources, this variant had noise emissions that were roughly the level of a basic Los Angeles and that of the Improved Los Angeles at slow speeds. At medium or high speeds the Improved Los Angeles design retains an acoustic advantage according to Russian sources. The Project 971 uses advanced sound insulation techniques that may not withstand Russian service conditions, and it may actually be noiser than earlier designs using more basic quieting technologies if poorly built or improperly maintained. The Project 971 is said by Russian sources to be at a distinct disadvantage in sensors, with a sonar suite that is roughly one-third as sensitive as the Los Angeles, able to track only two targets simultaneously (as opposed to the multiple target tracking capabilities of the American system).
*yawn*
oh.. well.. if we need to worry about these.. if they ever get to sea... it sure won't be because they are a 'threat'.
At least two and perhaps as many as four Improved Akulas entered service between 1992 and 1995. An additional Improved Akula I [K.267 Drakon] was launched in 1994 and delivered to the Russian Navy in 1995, though subsequently repossessed by the shipyard due to lack of payment. The boat reportedly remained in the possession of the Komsomolosk yard, which was said to be trying to sell her. According to some sources at least one [and probably two] additional Akula-Is remained undelivered [and almost certainly largely unfinished] at Komsomol'sk-na-Amur.
Pound sand, G.
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hey, nielson.. whatcha got?
spud guns?
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
i just love it when the US think their armed forces are invincible
I remember a boat called the USS COLE with a big hole in the side.....
A rubber dingy with tnt did that :D
ever heard og a consept called asymetric warfare?
Am I reading this wrong or is Nilsen10 saying he loved the terrorist attack on the Cole?
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Hey Nielsen,
I'm 50 years old, somewhat rotund, balding, and outta shape. Come over HERE and say that!
Shuckins
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Makes sense seeing as Mugabe just left, Paris just isnt Paris without respectable world leaders dropping by.
Vive le France!!
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u da man shukins. you get this squarehead, i'll take that eaglecz toejamhead.
they'll look good with keyboard smiles. ;)
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Oh boy :rolleyes:
think you are reading things very wrong mr funkedup.
I stated facts, but you guys are so wound up that you blow on anything.
I have never "picked a side" in this french/US bashing thing but just telling the folks on this board that there are more to warfare than expencive shiny tomahawks and laser guided eggs. There are people involved and technology is not everything to warfare.
What makes me upset is that alot if folks on this board is looking forward to a war with popcorn and widscreen tv's and thinking its gonna be a great show.
There are humans involved in any war and an iraqi sivilian is not worth less than a US soldier or sivilian.
REAL PEOPLE ARE GONNA DIE GUYS and they have families just like you and me, so take one second and think about that.
PS, i never said anything on the post about liking the attack on the COLE, just a fact !
That is all for tonight
:)
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The Cole is refitted and the suicide goatherds who put the hole in her died, obviously, in the attack. And the goatherds who planned and organized the Cole attack are either dead, captured, or soon will be.
Yeah, f*k'n with the US Navy is real smart......
Cabby
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France`s anti submarine satelite system is best so far
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true Cabby44 and im happy for that.
Why is stating facts on this board considered a hostile act?
Shukins i could say what i said to your face anyday, would you beat me up or what?
Do you smash your TV when the news brings you facts?
What was wrong about what i said Shuckins?
pls explain!
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Nilsen, sorry if I didn't read your message as you meant.
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np funkedup :)
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Originally posted by GScholz
The Russians have commisioned 12 SSN's, 3 SSBN's, 6 SSGN's, and 3 nuclear "special mission" submarines, 1 Kirov/Ushakov CGN, 1 Udaloy DDG, 1 Udaloy II DDG, 5 Sovremennyy DDG's, 1 Smetlivyy DDG (modernized Kashin), 2 Legkiy FFG's (modernized Krivak), and 3 Tartarstan FFG's plus a number of fleet auxiliary vessels and patrol craft since 1990, after the fall of the USSR. The Russians spend a lot on their navy, don't ever think the state is poor just because their population is.
Russia is no threat to the USA. It's time to bring our troops home from Europe and let the UN handle whatever happens over there, without our help.
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But if the USA leaves europe there will be nothin to stop the bosnian serbs from running over the whole place.
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Hey Hangtime,
Nilson is really taking all of this SERIOUSLY! I don't think the boy has a sense of humor!
Nilson, you and I are separated by 4000 miles of ocean. In fact, we are separated by a lot more than that. We obviously are never going to meet. I found what you said about the bombing of the Cole to be not only flippant but in poor taste. How would you have felt if a Norwegian ship had been bombed by terrorists and 36 of your fellow countrymen killed? Would you have appreciated such a remark about the incident from ME?
My remark was meant to voice my disapproval of your statement and the attitude behind it. My threat to dot your eye was said in jest, even if you deserved it. It was the type of remark you might hear on a school playground, such as "I dare ya to step across this line."
Is it all clear to you now?
Shuckins
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I give up Shuckins
Read it the way you like, you have made up your mind about what i ment anyhow so there is no point.
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Nilsen,
I read it the way you intended:
"I just love it when the US think their armed forces are invincible."
"I remember a boat called the USS COLE with a big hole in the side...
"A rubber dinghy with tnt did that :D "
You put the smiley face in after that statement, I didn't
At the very least, you statements were in bad taste. Sorry, but I do not believe that you were not aware of that fact when you made them.
Only incredible naivete can excuse it.
Shuckins
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It wasn't exactly a rubber dingy vs a destroyer. It was a surprise attack by terrroists with a bomb. Ya know what, if they get by with it again then we deserve it.
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i just love it when Norway thinks their ships are immune.
I remember a boat called the M/S RIGEL with a big hole in the side.....
A few stringbag biplanes with bombs did that.
ever heard of a concept called warfare? :D
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
i just love it when the US think their armed forces are invincible
I remember a boat called the USS COLE with a big hole in the side.....
A rubber dingy with tnt did that :D
Nilsen, I think we read you right..that big bellybutton smiley at the end of your sentence above shows your grinning face about the Samson vs Goliath feelings. :(
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If the Cole had reason to suspect terrorists or been at war then things would have been different. As it is now, we are at war and it won't happen like that again.
Americans are typically a trusting people, maybe to the point of gullibility. Times, they are a changin'.
That was David and Goliath Rip. :)
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How about Novye Atagi.. shall i put a smiley face next to that?
you just don't get it, do yah?
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guys...its pointless. who cares if they can nuke USA or we can nuke FRANCE...no matter what ever happens in the UN or elsewhere, that simply will never happen.
when it all comes down...we need one another in one way or another right???
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incorrect. this planet will spin just fine without the likes of ^^^ THAT ^^^ disgusting piece of pig toejam.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But if the USA leaves europe there will be nothin to stop the bosnian serbs from running over the whole place.
Well, wouldn't that be a joy for you. You could go home and start again with your correction by ethic clensing plan..
Hey.. post that again... the nessesary murder thingy.. please do..
Come on... good old times !!!
Here, i'll give you some reminders..
For all others, those are VERY graphic images of Croat attrocities during WWII. Part that Grun here forgets to mention when he gets into holier-then-thou speaches. Don't look if you are weak stomach.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/axed-head.gif
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/Saw-head.jpg
We all know that Craots are good god fearing folk...
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Ive often spoken about croatian attrocvties in WW2 in the apporopriate threads involving ou 1990s civil war. Those guys were nuts and even the SS complained about their brutality. Plus that the ustashe idiots gave half of croatia to italy outright makes me have an incredibly low opionon of them. They did have cool lookin airplane insigna though, i'll give them that...
I dont know why you think i never mentioned it. Guess that makes you more comfortable to think ythat I'mm one sided.
And again we see this "so another guy did it" fallacy used by liberals to excuse inaction. They gotta make that official.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Heh ... the all knowing judge (lol). So how do you compare the Akula II to the 688i or the Seawolf? The USN lost its edge over the Russians with the advents of the Akula (which was the first Russian sub to loose its USN "tail" due to it's stealth rather than an error on the USN part).
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Well, see the Soviet/Russian problem has always been Sonar, propeller and Reactor insulation from the hull. While they did achieve a breakthrough in propeller techology back in 80-something with the Toshiba/Kongsberg (?) scandal (Toshiba and a Norwegian company sold the latest computer tech to USSR so they could make better computer models of the propellers (and thus cavitation estimates/calculations) it was not nearly good enough. It was found that when the propellers got quieter, the reactor was making more than enough noise. Something about vibration from the coolant pumps spreading through the hull.
NOW, with the new generation of Soviet subs, they have indeed gotten more quiet, but hey..everything is relative. I'd say the Akula I might be somewhat on pair with the (old) 688, while the Akula II might be somewhat better (between 688 and i688).
However, that is just from a "being quiet perspective" and that is only one half of sub combat. The other half is about detecting the enemy. The USN Subs owns the Russians (and everyone else) in this category. The soviet sonars suck bellybutton while the USN sonars are the best in the world.
"It is difficult to find the most advanced Russian Akula class submarines when they operate at tactical speed or less," Admiral Jeremy Boorda
"The Akula is the best submarine in the world today.", Anthony Batista, senior staff member of the Armed Forces Committee (1988)
"The $7 billion-per-year Russian program has produced the Akula submarine, which is quieter than Seawolf.", Vice Admiral E.A. Burkhalter (1995)
These quotes are from people seeking more money for the USN. Cant bloody well say "we own their asses" then.
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When speaking about subs...
The quietest subs you will find are modern diesel/electric subs(on electric power of course :D ). Whatever platform you are in they are nearly impossible to find in a littoral enviroment unless the subdriver makes a mistake. There is little doubt that the us and canada has the most sensitive towed-array sonars in the world, but there are other sonars that are effective enough to track other marks well beyond the range of their weapon systems.
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
When speaking about subs...
The quietest subs you will find are modern diesel/electric subs(on electric power of course :D ). Whatever platform you are in they are nearly impossible to find in a littoral enviroment unless the subdriver makes a mistake. There is little doubt that the us and canada has the most sensitive towed-array sonars in the world, but there are other sonars that are effective enough to track other marks well beyond the range of their weapon systems.
Diesel/electric subs are among the most quiet ones in the world. Not when they are at the surcace running the diesels to recharge the batteries though...
I am not only talking about towed array sonars, I am talking about all types of sonars. Except active sonars, because they are as effective as using a flashlight in a desert night to locate your enemy...sure you can find him if you are close enough and point the flashlight on him, but he (and everyone else) will know where you are long before you know where he is.
Please elaborate on these "other sonars that are effective enough to track other marks well beyond the range of their weapon systems" You can start out by saying exactly what you mean with that sentence, because I do not understand it.
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Hortlund
Im talking about sonars that can track other surface/subsurface targets well beyond the range of their onboard weapon systems .
There is as i stated very little doubt that when it comes to long range passive detection in bluewater conditions the CANTASS systems and Lockheed Maritin's TB-29 and AN/SQQ systems are the finest in the world. However there are very fine sonar systems coming from manufacurers in europe and worldwide that are highly sophisticated and very capable for their purpouse. Thales systems and STN Atlas Elektronik system comes to mind as they are the systems i have been in most contact with.
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
Im talking about sonars that can track other surface/subsurface targets well beyond the range of their onboard weapon systems .
And that is what I'm not understanding what you mean. Even the most rudimentary passive sonar from the 50:s could do that.
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yes, but...
surface and subsurface warships have become very much quieter now than 50 years ago and the weapon systems like torpedoes also has alot more range than 50 years ago.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Hortlund, I'm afraid you digress. You don't need superior sensors to launch a ballistic or cruise missile attack. That's a major reason the Cold War stayed cold. Neither the US nor the Soviets were able to track all of their opponent's SSBN's reliably. The Russian SSN's also rely heavily on other ASW/ASuW platforms for remote targeting data, mainly the Tu-95 Bear Foxtrot and Il-38 May, to fill the "sensor gap".
I think this started with the French SSBN's. I doubt very much that anyone know exactly where ALL of them are right now, even the mighty USN.
This entire line of arguing began when you claimed that soviet SSN's were on level with USN subs. I was simply pointing out that there are two aspects that are crucial in submarine warfare, the ability to stay hidden, and the ability to locate your opponent. The russians are not good enough at staying hidden, and they are really bad at finding their opponent...that is a bad combination. The USN subs on the other hand, are masters of staying hidden, and they excel at finding their opponents...that is a good combination.
I would love for you to explain exactly how the Russian SSN's make use of targeting data coming from Tu-95 Bear (which is not really an ASW plane) or Il-38 "May". What is the link of communication between the different platforms, and how well can they support eachother in a tactical encounter?
How many SSBN do you think the French has?
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who has told anyone that the US is that far ahead of the russians?
US intelligence?
the movies?
discovery channel doing documentaries from US subs?
Of course the US will say that they are the best and the russians will argue the same.
But how do we know who are the best?
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
who has told anyone that the US is that far ahead of the russians?
Books & Articles.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Notice how I stated "evade" not "on level". I only compare the stealth not the ability to attack other subs (SSBN's don't need that capability).
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Detect is not the same thing as attack. SSBNs does very much need the capability to detect other subs.
For someone who stated "I know enough about modern naval combat thankyouverymuch" I find it strange that I have to explain the fundamentals of Russian tactical ASW and ASuW operation, but I will. [SNIP]
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What you are describing here can be considered wishful thinking at best. (I was confusing the Bear with the elint variant btw.)
Surely you must agree to that? Honestly..do you think Russian ASW assets are able to detect and track USN SSNs? And forget "theoretically possible" do you think it happens? Considering the state of the Russian navy/airforce, the technology gap, crew training/motivation etc?
The French operate four SSBN's at present; L'Inflexible, L'Indomptable, Le Triomphant, and Le Téméraire with Le Vigilant scheduled for sea-trials this year and commission next year. A sixth unnamed SSBN is under construction.
And how many SSNs does the USN have? (you dont have to answer as long as you acknowledge the fact that the USN could EASILY put a tail on each French SSBN).
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[rant]
Been in court with a damn juvenile case today all day, thats why I havent replied yet. Stupid damn 17 yr old kid jumped on the head of a kid who'd been kicked to the ground already. The damn trial took 7 bloody hours.
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Well, I would really like to avoid the battle of sources that so often evolves in debates on this BB. How about this. You claim that the Russians have better equipment now than they did back in the 80s/90s sure I'll buy that. I'm still going to maintain however that the best Russian state of the art equipment right now is on par with US mid 80s equipment when it comes to stealth (propulsion, hull design, quietness) and on par with US mid/late 70s when it comes to sonar (both software and hardware). I honestly did not think that the US technological edge was in doubt. Sure the Soviets managed to excell in some very specialized areas, like the speed of the Alfa...but generally those special abilities came with horrible side effects..the Alfa was about as quiet as an exploding freight train when going at speed.
So they have a new torpedo now, first I remain unconvinced about the abilities of that torpedo, second any torpedo is useless if you cant locate and track the intended targets.
When you say the Russians are only a few percentages behind USN...what exactly do you mean by that? Because you simply cannot mean that when it comes to sonar capacity, or stealth for that matter. Even the dirt old Ohios are like a wall of compact silence compared to the latest Russian SSN's...but granted, the Ohios are special.
As for the US ability to track enemy SSBNs and/or SSNs... now you are wandering into detailed tactical encounters and tactics. I mean sure we can go there, but it becomes rather odd because I could just modify the example by saying "Oh but the USN decided it was so important to keep a track on these SSBNs, so they decided to put two i688s on each one, that way if one is driven off the other one can continue." I am noth convinced about the "crazy ivan" tactic you described either for a number of reasons.
But anyway...any 688 captain that chose to go flank speed to keep up with a rushing boomer and got caught by her escort would not be a 688 captain long after that. Much easier to stay hidden, follow the escort instead and/or just wait to detect the boomer again. Rule #1 of sub warfare is never to give up your stealth advantage, or in other words, never compromise your position. That is why your crazy ivan variant sounds rather odd, since doing one of those rushes would broadcast your position to everyone within miles.
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hort..i enoy reading stuff like that..
always interested in reading Military anaylsists(spelling i know)
always love reading sub stuff..but only kno wmuch about ww2 sub stuff..this new toejam is insane,,,
thx and keep it up..
Where is a good place to read New Sub stuff?
Salute
BiGB
xoxo
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Thanks BGB
Try this site, it is a really good starting point.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/submarine.htm
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Originally posted by Shuckins
How would you have felt if a Norwegian ship had been bombed by terrorists and 36 of your fellow countrymen killed? Would you have appreciated such a remark about the incident from ME?
..as obvious, terrorists doesn't care about Norway, since they don't tend to stir up problems and then fault the others for it.
US is just begging for more terrorist attacks and then acting innocent when something happens... ignorance rules.
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A French flag was raised over Bagdad since no white sheets could be found because of the dust caused by hundreds of Tomahawks missles dirtied the white sheets.
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Originally posted by GScholz
- I would mostly agree to that when considering the Russian sub force as a whole. However their newest boats, mainly the upgraded Akula II class are more on par with the early 90's USN boats in stealth, and (arguably) mid to late 80's in sonar capability.
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Ok, I'll agree to that assessment. I think what it boils down to then, is how much have sonar capability evolved since the 80s (alot...like obscenely much...compare with the average civilian computer if you will) and how much have stealth evolved (some, but not as much as the sonars). So, I'm going to argue that the Soviet subs (when faced with USN subs) are blind but quiet. (well, not really but you get the idea) and that is an improvement since they used to be blind and noisy.
- Yes the Alpha was a direct result of Russian planners recognizing that they could not compete with the USN in stealth in the 60's and 70's, and as such developed the stand-off doctrine of remotely detecting enemy subs I described previously. The analogy has been made that the Alpha was the Soviet navy's Mig-25.
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Yeah, when the Alpha arrived back whenever, the US was severely freaked because the Alpha could actually outrun the Mk48 torpedos. Something that changed with the Mk48 ADCAP, but still the adcap only held something like a 10 knot gap over a speeding Alpha. There were also doubts whether the original Mk48 actually could penetrate the titanium hull of the Alpha. If I remember correctly, that is why the adcap was set do detonate under the target instead of swimming straight into it like the Mk48.
- I am unsure which torpedo you are referring to?
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The 200 kts gas bubble variant that is rumored to have killed Kursk by exploding in the torpedo room.
- When comparing effectiveness (the platform's ability to fulfil its designed purpose) the USN has set the standard (100%) in all but the rarest cases. The Russians have been about a decade behind the US in sub effectiveness since the 50's and up till the last 5 years. However the gap in effectiveness between the 50's and 60's are tremendous compared to the gap between the 80's and 90's. Especially in quieting. For every year that passes the Russians are lagging behind the US in pretty much the same way as always measured in years (USN setting the standard for comparison), however in effectiveness the gap is closing ... or I should say narrowing. A late 80's US SSN is not that inferior to a mid-late 90's US SSN, as a 60's SSN to a 70's SSN. A 688 still is a very good boat, and stand a pretty good chance against an i688. The Russians are patrolling the Atlantic with ever more confidence now, practically gloating in their newfound abilities to evade detection.
[/b]
Agreed, except the last part about Russians patrolling the atlantic while laughing at the Americans.
You are absolutely right about the USN captains preferring to loose contact and try to reacquire the Russians later. The "crazy" in "crazy Ivan" comes from the Russians ending their dash abruptly and listening as the American rushed by ... dangerously close. It's funny you chose the "freight train" analogy when describing the Alpha. A Russian (retired) sub captain used the same analogy when describing a USN sub roaring past him in the 70's. The Russians use/used the "crazy Ivan" tactic in a piggyback fashion, extending on the quieter, but slower American "tail" with each leap. When they figured they had dashed far enough they went quiet and changed course, and the cat and mouse game began anew. As I said, keeping a "tail" on another submarine for a lengthy time period is VERY difficult, but the USN are successful in doing so in many cases, but not most and never all.
I was kinda confused about the crazy ivan variant you described, because it sounds awfully lot like the standard sprint and drift tactic that the USN hunterkillers use. But when you said soviet boomers did that... I dunno, the USN boomers leave port, dive and head out at 15-20kts for a while, then they go silent and dissapears...then they come back 6 weeks later. And no one can track them...not even the i688s...at least if the boomer captain knows what he is doing. It sounds weird to have soviet boomers do stuff like that because a boomer has one mission and one mission only: stay hidden. That is why the Soviets built their later generation SSBNs with reinforced hulls, so they could hide beneath the ice and come up through the ice to fire. Ice makes a he**ofalot of noise and it is much easier to hide underneath it. If you go sprint and drift with a boomer you are effectively breaking cover every time you sprint.
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French SSBN's are a joke. US submarines do not trail them because it is a waste of an asset. A bigger threat would be from a fishing trawler. We basically ignored them.
The high speed of an Alfa was impressive but with the exception of getting from here to there in a relatively short time and maybe outrunning a ASW torpedo it did not help you sink other submarines. The Alfa was loud and easy to detect and it's sensor systems were 50% effective compared to their enemies systems.
Do not underestimate the power of a MK48 (nonADCAP) torpedo. Even a close explosion will cripple or sink an Alfa. The shock alone would burst pipes, cause massive internal damage, shutdown electronics and possibly pop the shaft seals. Trust me, you do not want a MK48 exploding anywhere near you. Espeically if you are under water.
The Akula is impressive also, but I would bet on a 688 anytime in a ASW melee. The acoustic sensor capabilities and the high quality of crew training will bring the 688 out on top everytime.
Trailing a USSR sub for weeks at a time was common place in the US Submarine force. Probably alittle bit different now with the improvement of Russian technology. Regardless, the outcome of a submarine battle between a 688 and Akula would find the Akula a broken hull on the bottom.
Have a nice day! :)