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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on March 18, 2003, 01:38:34 PM

Title: Combat psychology
Post by: davidpt40 on March 18, 2003, 01:38:34 PM
I read in some book a few years ago that during World War II, only 10-20% of U.S. troops fired their weapons in combat.  In order to alleviate this problem, the U.S. military started training its troops to shoot at human shaped targets in training.  By Vietnam 90%+ U.S. troops were firing their weapons in combat.

Anyone ever hear of this phenomenon?
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Mini D on March 18, 2003, 01:42:14 PM
Don't think you can draw a correlation between the two.

Millions of troops with a spread out enemy... fewer % fire weapons.

Fewer troops with a massive enemy... larger % fires weapons.

BTW... about 1 in every 100,000 rounds fired in Vietnam hit something.

MiniD
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Hortlund on March 18, 2003, 01:42:36 PM
If I remember correctly it was a study during the Vietnam war.  Something like this: In a firefight, 1 in 10 soldiers aims and fires his weapon at the enemy, 2 in 10 fires their weapon in the general direction of the enemy, 5 in 10 hugs the ground and wont fire unless specifically told to, and the remaining 2 in 10 will hug the ground and not fire their weapon at all.

I might be off on the percentages but I think it was something like that.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: davidpt40 on March 18, 2003, 01:44:19 PM
I don't have the book on me, believe it was either "Dirty little secrets of World War II", or "Dirty little secrets of Vietnam", but I don't think it was counting troops who werent in combat situations.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Hortlund on March 18, 2003, 01:45:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Don't think you can draw a correlation between the two.

Millions of troops with a spread out enemy... fewer % fire weapons.

Fewer troops with a massive enemy... larger % fires weapons.

BTW... about 1 in every 100,000 rounds fired in Vietnam hit something.

MiniD


actually it was worse.

In WWI, the ratio was 10 000 bullets/enemy casualty

In WWII it was 100 000 bullets/enemy casualty

In Vietnam it was up to 1 000 000 bullets/enemy casualty

There were occations where firebases thought they were under attack and spent most of the night shooting full auto into the jungle.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: davidpt40 on March 18, 2003, 01:50:05 PM
I know that it took an average of 200 pounds of lead to hit someone in the Civil War.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Ripsnort on March 18, 2003, 02:14:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
BTW... about 1 in every 100,000 rounds fired in Vietnam hit something.

MiniD


roadkillt...every round hit something.  Mother earth was there to stop them.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Eaglecz on March 18, 2003, 02:28:46 PM
but they do not count trees Rip :D
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Ripsnort on March 18, 2003, 02:36:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eaglecz
but they do not count trees Rip :D


No kidding!? :D
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Saurdaukar on March 18, 2003, 03:12:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
No kidding!? :D


What about VC trees?
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Pongo on March 18, 2003, 03:32:00 PM
Its as much about combat vision and situational awareness as it is about combat psychology. Experiance lets you know where to look. What to look for. when to shoot. When to wait..
Saying that only 10% of guys shot at the enemy isnt like saying that only 10% of the people where willing or capable of effectivly engaging the enemy.
This becomes realy important in a situation agianst an outnumbered and capable enemy. They dont give you opertunities.
But that being said. Not all soldiers are created equal. Some have more initiative and better situational awareness. Things you cant really drill into a soldier.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: funkedup on March 18, 2003, 03:40:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
What about VC trees?


Yep those weren't trees, they were "suspected truck parks".
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Martlet on March 18, 2003, 03:42:19 PM
Noone knows how you are going to react when fingers start snapping by your ears.

The extreme majority of people I've served with behaved exactly as they were supposed to.  I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen in combat that didn't perform their duty.  Of those, only one turned into a blubbering idiot.

Some people just aren't cut out for it.  It doesn't make them cowards.  It makes them human.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: rc51 on March 18, 2003, 04:30:01 PM
Being as most if not all of you have never seen combat I doubt you even know what you speak of.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Martlet on March 18, 2003, 04:32:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rc51
Being as most if not all of you have never seen combat I doubt you even know what you speak of.


I'm hoping you aren't referring to me.  If you care to learn a little history about the experiences I draw from, drop me a PM.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: rc51 on March 18, 2003, 04:34:11 PM
Notice i said most if not all.
I did not say ALL
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: rc51 on March 18, 2003, 04:37:07 PM
I am speaking to the keyboard generals who have never even served in the military!
So when they speak of combat I laughf.
My combat experiance is limited to central america.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: Pongo on March 18, 2003, 04:46:44 PM
lol
Finished thumping your chest? You must have one of those "combat vet" internet accounts.
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: rc51 on March 18, 2003, 04:54:21 PM
Oh your from canada  LOL never mind. LOL
Title: Combat psychology
Post by: davidpt40 on March 18, 2003, 05:02:31 PM
In "BlackHawk Down", it said the Rangers in Mogadishu practiced firing at targets with geometric shapes on them.  They were supposed to fire at a certain shape, and not fire at another shape.  This exercise helped them to determine whether a Somali was friend or foe during combat very quickly (by building neurogical pathways in their brains that made them identify before they fired).