Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SaburoS on March 19, 2003, 02:02:40 PM
-
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030319/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_iraq (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030319/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_iraq)
Yup, it's for peace and freedom. It's going to be a pre-emptive war to prevent future american casualties. It's because we wanted arms inspections again. Hmmmm.
So why is it we're told to be prepared for casualties?
Why is it we're told to be prepared for terror attacks?
Where is the link to Iraq and 9/11?
Now tell me that we won't increase the anti-American terrorist pool with this invasion/war. Tell me that the terror pool didn't get bigger with our war on Afghanistan. Or because the other side suffers civillian casualties is ok because it's mearly collateral damage. Next big attack on American and/or English soil against our citizens, just don't be shocked ,ok? We're creating an ever bigger pool of terrorists by our lack of human respect around the world. It's a new age of instant communications. We reap what we sow. BTW, do you all care at all for any innocent Iraqi civillians that might get killed?
Good luck to us all. We've entered a new path of no return that'll be hard to undo. :(
I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party.
-
That airhead post makes me chuckle.
-
You may wanna flip the page in YOUR history book, it was WJC who gave us the attack on the USS Cole and the WTC towers.
Pay attention! The balls been set in motion for some time now, atleast SOMEONE is doing something about it now.
-SW
-
SaburoS: We've entered a new path of no return that'll be hard to undo. :(
US has entered that path - the path of big government and imperial ambitions - well over a century ago. It stayed on that path because people like you are not willing to study history, stay ignorant and only realise that things are wrong when bombs start falling.
I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party.
I sure wish americans studied all those things - then we would have a president we would not have to worry about.
miko
-
Saburo = toejam..
You do no justice to Saburo Sakais Name...
He would say the same thing about you he did about the Japanese Gov..
You are an idoit..
I will be very simple...
diddly you..And Go be a human Shield. Saddam will take good care of you
Ya..dont do anything..they will get more mad......Ya....You are a handsomehunk
"let the persoanlattaks begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
diddly You
BiGB
666
"the never check 6 lists continue to grow"
Saburo
Blitz
whos next?
-
Imperial Ambitions?
Please Miko.... exactly how do you mean? Did we have a colonial empire that I forgot to go visit?
-
Originally posted by miko2d
... I sure wish americans studied all those things - then we would have a president we would not have to worry about.
miko
Worry about?? I thank God for a leader like George W. Bush. It litterally gives me th shivers to think how Gore would've handled Sadam Hussein. We probably wouldn't be going to war at this time. Rather, we'd be wringing our hands and wondering how to appease him once his nuclear/biological/chemical capabilities became known some years down the road.
-
BGB I also think Saburo's post was retarded but you are going over the line with the personal stuff. Attack the post not the poster.
-
US has entered that path - the path of big government and imperial ambitions
I agree with the big government thing, but I don't think the US has imperial ambitions, at least not since the 1920's or so. Maybe you have a different definition.
-
why if someone is going to vomit crap like this..I will hold him accountable..diddly him
yes..ban me now i guess...Hes full of toejam
-
BGB, you're not holding anyone accountable. You're merely showing yourself in an extremely poor light. In short, you're embarassing yourself. IMO.
Funked is right on the money with his comment.
Old saying:
When the first guy calls you a horse's patoot, laugh it off.
When the second guy calls you a horse's patoot, stop and think about what you've been saying or doing.
When the third guy calls you a horse's patoot, go buy a saddle.
Figure I'm the "second guy" in this thread.
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
"the never check 6 lists continue to grow"
Saburo
Blitz
whos next?
me
-
Whats up Saburo not getting enough attention on the Bigweek
newsgroups?
T0J0
-
That's it- I'm getting my Aces High account reactivated just to shoot IdiotMAW out of the sky.
-
Bgb, please remember that you're in uniform when you are posting like that :)
-
midnight Target: Imperial Ambitions?
Please Miko.... exactly how do you mean? Did we have a colonial empire that I forgot to go visit?
Ever visited Southern States that once wanted to get out?
How abouit the plains where indians were exterminated by US military so that government-chartered cartel could build a railroad and get 20 miles strip of land along it?
Phillipines where quarter to one million people were killed in 1898-1904? The only christian country and only republic in the eastern hemisphere of the time?
Haiti, Mexico, and other south-american counrties that US corporations liked to do business in?
Texas that was infiltrated by american settlers and then joined the USA?
Hawaii that were infiltrated by american settlers that overthrew local government and then joined the USA?
Joining the WWI in 1917 when the strategic stalemate was achieved and sides were ready to sign the armstice? That prolonged the war by a year, caused bolshevik coup in Russia and establishment of a communist regime. Also enforced intolerable peace conditions and reparations on Germany (which did not start a war but was involved through allied obligations) which resulted in Hitler eventually coming to power and WWII?
Russia in 1919 where american intervention helpled bolshevics persuade population in the reality of "international oppressors and aggressors" and seriously hurt the popular support for the anti-bolshevic forces in the civil war?
Hepling French to keep it's Indochina colony and all that Vietnam debacle?
Toppling elected regime in Iran in 53?
Supporting Ba'ath and Hussein in toppling lawfull regime in Iraq in 60s?
Screwing up with other aspiring democratic regimes and helping despots all over the globe?
I could probably come up with a few others upon some consideration.
Enforcing dollar as international reserve salary on the world in 1944, then unilateraly refusing to back it with gold in 1973 and collecting $500 billion a year (~10-25% of real GNP) "tribute" in goods and material from the world through printing paper money thay are forced to take?
Claiming that arabs raised the price of oil 4 times in 70s while it was really the dollar that dropped 4 times against the prevailing currency of that time - gold - and using it as an excuse for intervention and interference with mid-east regimes?
Sounds pretty imperial to me.
miko
-
So why is it we're told to be prepared for casualties?
Why is it we're told to be prepared for terror attacks?
Where is the link to Iraq and 9/11? - Saburo
One at a time:
1. "So why is it we're told to be prepared for casualties?"
How about: Because there will be casualties?
2. "Why is it we're told to be prepared for terror attacks?"
How about: Because there may be terror attacks?
3. "Where is the link to Iraq and 9/11?"
How about:
Al Queda wants WMD.
Iraq has WMD.
Al-Queda is active in the Middle East, near Iraq.
Iraq would presumabley love to see an attack on USA?
Iraq is likely to give WMD to Al-Queda or other terror groups?
-
slimm50: Worry about?? I thank God for a leader like George W. Bush. It litterally gives me th shivers to think how Gore...
Whichever imperial socialist party - Reps or Dems - is in power, screw up the government will. That is one thing you can be certain of and not worry about. The details are secondary.
miko
-
air head i welcoem good fight in the air..
I still stand by everything i say..
ANd about m ebeing a MAW...
I will always b efaithful to them..I will do my jobb in AH
Bom..Kill and break Bish and rooks up..
But I will not let toejamheads talk about the USA like this.....
Yes other MAW dont agree with me..fine..other Knights wont..other Rook Bish wont..
But you kno what there are that do...
Just liek there are peopl who agree with Sab....yes Bush wants war no matter what..He wants dead bodies all over...
you diddlying morons..i cant beleive you right thius toejam
Yes we shouldnt of attaked Japan...They might of go tmore upset..And Tortured more Humans ..Chinese-British -American South Asian..
Next big attack on American and/or English soil against our citizens, just don't be shocked ,ok? We're creating an ever bigger pool of terrorists by our lack of human respect around the world.
HOW CAN YOU GUYS LET HIOM GET AWAY WITH THIS toejam!!!!
WHO DOES MORE TO HELP THE WORLD THEN USA!!???
Yes we arent perfect...Who is bettr then huh?
yes saburo..you are a hunk of toejam
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
One at a time:
1. "So why is it we're told to be prepared for casualties?"
How about: Because there will be casualties?
2. "Why is it we're told to be prepared for terror attacks?"
How about: Because there may be terror attacks?
3. "Where is the link to Iraq and 9/11?"
How about:
Al Queda wants WMD.
Iraq has WMD.
Al-Queda is active in the Middle East, near Iraq.
Iraq would presumabley love to see an attack on USA?
Iraq is likely to give WMD to Al-Queda or other terror groups?
Why get so complicated?
Iraq provided training to Al-Queda. (per Iraqi defectors)
Mohammed Atta had meetings with Iraqi intelligence agents during the planning phase of the 9-11 attacks. (per Czech intel agency)
-
shhh funked up...you cant prove that
you want war at any costs
Give Peace a chance...atleast over 12 years
LMFAo...
o well
SAlute:)
hehehe
God Bless our soldiers..Seems like it can get very ugly in that desert..
-
makes me want to listen to the "imperial march" and pretend the f-16's are tie fighters lol
-
watch star trek sometime dudes...we will rule the galaxy and occasionally let people with foreign accents or alien DNA to work aboard our glorius starships.
-
You make a good point there, Funky. I go to extra pains for SuburoS because he's challenged. :D
-
"I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party."
I don't think chimpy and his junta ever wanted the inspections to be successful.
President Death likes killing too much to have allowed the inspections to succeed.
On another note what excuse will he use to go into Iran right after Iraq?
With the troops already there I bet he's looking for any reason to go after them too.
I just hope we don't listen to his roulette wheel of excuses for 9 months like with Iraq.
-
weazle
go nutz for chimpy!
-
Originally posted by weazel
"I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party."
I don't think chimpy and his junta ever wanted the inspections to be successful.
President Death likes killing too much to have allowed the inspections to succeed.
On another note what excuse will he use to go into Iran right after Iraq?
With the troops already there I bet he's looking for any reason to go after them too.
I just hope we don't listen to his roulette wheel of excuses for 9 months like with Iraq.
That's an awesome idea. I'm going to send him an email.
-
Weasel, I don't think the Butcher and his bloody-handed gang of murderers wanted the inspections to be successful either. Well, they got their wish. And we gonna throw them a big party! Ka-Boom!
-
Why complicate things?
Of course American has never trained or aided terrorist or supplied them with WMD. American has never use WMD on a large scale during warfare. The CIA has never been directly involved in assassinations of democratically elected officials of other countires. America never harbours war criminals and or terrorist. American has never invaded or attacked a soviegn nation with no justification.
Why complicate things?
You have a War to fight no time to ponder why Bush won't release the Enron minutes or the fact he used the Enron jet while campaigning or Cheney's open face lies about Haliburton Oil and Afganistan.
Oh say can you see...the enemy within?
-
Miko...last time I checked imperialism was a path of conquest/expansion. Oh you could argue economicly but come on... we cater to nations that wont allow us to trade w/them on an equal footing much less ram our products down thier throat..
Our Imperialism simply doesnt exist. We had a brief period of semi-colonialism... but that went out the window as well. Oh..we waged war to expand our borders w/the Native American. It was going to be us doing it or some European power.... so dont fool yourself there.
We could of taken Mexico...Cuba..Central America... blablabla. We could of damn well established a much more powerful influnce in the world after ww2...we had the bomb, nobody else did. Guess what... we didnt. We could pushed NK and the Chinese outta of Korea forever and decimated China... we didnt. We could of obliterated Veitnam by waging TOTAL WAR ..we didnt.
I'm sorry but the entire concept of calling us Imperialistic is simply DEAD WRONG.
Hell..we're talking of withdrawing forces from nations... this is hardly empire making.
On a 2nd note.... eventualy the world will be ruled by ONE government... how long was Rome a Republic before Ceaser?
-
Somewhere there's a bulldozer with your name on it.
God bless America.
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030319/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_iraq (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030319/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_iraq)
Yup, it's for peace and freedom. It's going to be a pre-emptive war to prevent future american casualties. It's because we wanted arms inspections again. Hmmmm.
So why is it we're told to be prepared for casualties?
Why is it we're told to be prepared for terror attacks?
Where is the link to Iraq and 9/11?
Now tell me that we won't increase the anti-American terrorist pool with this invasion/war. Tell me that the terror pool didn't get bigger with our war on Afghanistan. Or because the other side suffers civillian casualties is ok because it's mearly collateral damage. Next big attack on American and/or English soil against our citizens, just don't be shocked ,ok? We're creating an ever bigger pool of terrorists by our lack of human respect around the world. It's a new age of instant communications. We reap what we sow. BTW, do you all care at all for any innocent Iraqi civillians that might get killed?
Good luck to us all. We've entered a new path of no return that'll be hard to undo. :(
I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party.
The face of the world has changed..get over it. Your looking at the future for abit. We're going to have to continue this for along time. The genie is outta of the friggen box...every 3rd world dictator is going to want his personal nuke or version of anthrax.
It has to start and end somewhere. Better Iraq w/US doing the assult than some radical w/a bio-nuke in Paris...London...New York..etc.
We're entering an age of Choas and mayhem. We are entering an age were we better be ready to do what is needed to protect ourselfs..beacuse the world has proven how GD useless they are at protecting anybody but their selfs... if that. And its only going to get worse.
-
BGBMaW, you really oughta cut down on your posting, you're making yourself look like a complete tard. Perhaps i'm biased or maybe not, my brother is a Royal engineer and is on the Iraq/Kuwait boarder this very minute, surprisingly for a european i'm pro war.:eek: However turning psycho because you don't agree with someone is just plain stupid, for your own sake.....calm down!
A funny thing happened to me tonight, me and few friends were in a pub and it was kareoke night (just got home). My mate performed the song Sex Bomb by Tom Jones (dunno if this song is known in the US) and at the end when people began clapping he shouted "yeah! lets go send some sex bombs to Iraq and kill the b******ds!".....the whole pub went dead. It was soooo funny i couldn't stop laughing at him (the pub is 90% full of students) it was such a stupid thing to say but that's how he feels i guess.:D This doesn't have any relevence to this thread at all- but i thought ti was funny.:D
-
Torque is a fairy.
-
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You may wanna flip the page in YOUR history book, it was WJC who gave us the attack on the USS Cole and the WTC towers.
Pay attention! The balls been set in motion for some time now, atleast SOMEONE is doing something about it now.
-SW
...and who gave us the attack on the USS Stark?
How about the Marines in Beiruit?
...or do you save all your accusations for Democrats only?
Sure the balls been rolling for decades now, but this is the first time that I'm living through seeing first hand our lack of world support for a military action so large. (I was too young for Vietnam). We could have chosen diplomacy, but we're set on war.
We're adding fuel to the fire of our true enemies.
-
Originally posted by miko2d
SaburoS: We've entered a new path of no return that'll be hard to undo. :(
US has entered that path - the path of big government and imperial ambitions - well over a century ago. It stayed on that path because people like you are not willing to study history, stay ignorant and only realise that things are wrong when bombs start falling.
I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party.
I sure wish americans studied all those things - then we would have a president we would not have to worry about.
miko
miko,
I've been studying history as it's been a hobby of mine for over 23 years. Am I thinking all of a sudden something's wrong? Heck no. Our imperialist expansionism had its real start in 1898 from our isolationism previously. The path I speak of now is our nation heading down a dangerous road isolated from world support and allies. In this age of instant communications, technology of bio, chem, and atomic weapons and their delivery systems, makes for a very unstable future. Our pool of enemies (from our dabbling in other's affairs) will definitely increase with this latest action. There's a big difference from fear to respect. Make people fear you, they'd not willingly help you (they might even actively try to destroy you). If they respect you, you'll have genuine friends coming to your aid if needed. If you bully others, they tend not to be so forgiving (I'm using "you" as a generality).
We are at a unique time in modern times. Being the strongest both militarily and economically with no real enemy of equal strength. We could choose to build stronger relations via diplomacy and seek out making friends of supposed enemies. Enemies want to see of your demise, friends seek to protect one another. We've been going down the path of creating enamies for a long time now. But now, we're creating a bigger pool of real enemies that can do some real damage. It's a shame it's coming down to this.
Maybe someday we'll evolve further as a human species before we wipe each other out.
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
Saburo = toejam..
You do no justice to Saburo Sakais Name...
He would say the same thing about you he did about the Japanese Gov..
You are an idoit..
I will be very simple...
diddly you..And Go be a human Shield. Saddam will take good care of you
Ya..dont do anything..they will get more mad......Ya....You are a handsomehunk
"let the persoanlattaks begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
diddly You
BiGB
666
"the never check 6 lists continue to grow"
Saburo
Blitz
whos next?
BGBMAW,
Dude your rant is so out of here that its hilarious. :D
Am I going to go on personal attacks against you? What for?
This I'll say about you:
You care very much about your country and it's populace....but so do I and everyone else here.
In this war, you want to see absolutely minimun casualties and hope that no innocent lives are hurt or lost......but so do I and everyone else here.
You absolutely hate terrorism....but so do I and so does everyone else here.
You consider yourself very patriotic...but so do I and most everyone else here.
Are you so pissed off at some (like me), Yes you are.
Am I upset about it? Nope. You are expressing your anger and frustration based on your beliefs as you see them. Yup, can't argue the way you feel.
Do I feel you're a bit lacking on knowledge of US foreign policy? Yes.
Do I care if you keep on with the Ef you's and similar stuff? Naw, rant away. It doesn't bother me...really. I'd actually be more bothered if I couldn't control my temper and went on a temper tantrum.
Do I care if you never, ever give me a check six call? Not at all. Kind of hard since we're on different countries. But if we did, I'll see the result of my getting shot down due to two things:
1) My lack of skill...and
2) My lack of SA
Will you or anyone else get a check six from me? Of coarse as I don't have time to keep track of cyber "enemies" on my own country to decide to give a check six or not (my indecision could get me shot down in the heat of battle).
I'll base my hatred for those that are real enemies, not fellow patriotic citizens that also care about our future. To do so would be silly and a waste of energy.
Best regards sir ~S~!,
SaburoS
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
WHO DOES MORE TO HELP THE WORLD THEN USA!!???
Yes we arent perfect...Who is bettr then huh?
yes saburo..you are a hunk of toejam
Yes, please educate me on how our nation helped the world out of the kindness of its own heart. Give me the examples.
The United States has interfered in more sovereign nations from developing into industrial, democratic countries than help. It was and is against US business interests to help develop competing industrialised nations. We have propped up and supported more totalitarian dictatorships whether they be via monarchy, dictatorship (Marcos, Somoza, Batista, Pinochet, Pahlavi, etc).
Former President Bush even toasted Marcos of his being pro-democracy and freedom (long after he declared martial law and went from elected president to dictator).
Jeane Kirkpatrick gave similar praise to Pinochet even as he continued to rule Chile with an iron fist.
Hypocritical, no?
BTW our first "Vietnam" was in Nicaragua during the early '30s.
It's funny that we see the UN as a legitimate organization when it supports us (like when Iran took our hostages), but we cast aside the UN as meaningless when they disagree with our actions (such as when we mined Nicaraguas harbor - an act of war btw, as it's stricly against international law to do that. Or now in our invasion of Iraq.)
Does it mean that America alone has its dark history? No, not at all. Not many nations can claim to not be interfering in other nations.
But you know what? I am not a French citizen living in France, German living in Germany, Japanese living in Japan, Iranian living in Iran, etc., etc.
I am an American living in the US. I am exercising my freedom of expression rights as an American citizen. Do I have the right to criticize that which I disagree with? I believe so, just as you or anyone else has that same right to disagree with me or anyone else.
I wish I was an English major so that I could express myself better. I guess we'll have to leave it as it is.
-
Originally posted by funkedup
Why get so complicated?
Iraq provided training to Al-Queda. (per Iraqi defectors)
Mohammed Atta had meetings with Iraqi intelligence agents during the planning phase of the 9-11 attacks. (per Czech intel agency)
So when do we attack Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to name but two countries?
-
How come it is called "legimate war" when civilians in Iraq get killed by americans, but US homefront is warned of possible "terrorist acts" if Iraq retaliates?
Because of the uniforms?
...just wondering.
-
Funky can you make a tinfoil helmet?
-
"How come it is called "legimate war" when civilians in Iraq get killed by americans, but US homefront is warned of possible "terrorist acts" if Iraq retaliates?
Because of the uniforms?
...just wondering."
You cannot possibly be serious...or are you?
A "legitimate war" as you call it, will not target civilians, it will target the enemy military. In other words, "my military against your military". Simply, my armed troops against your armed troops. Is it possible for civilians to get killed in a so called "legitimate war"? Yes, but the US military strives to keep civilian deaths to a minimum.......ZERO civilian deaths is what they shoot for.
"Terrorist acts" are in a completely different category. These are chickenshits who lack the courage to take on someone who is armed or trained to deal with the threat. Waging "war" or "jihad" by strapping a bunch of TNT or C4 to yourself and boarding a bus to detonate it and kill folks who are no threat to you is a terrorist act. Hijacking an airliner and flying it and the passengers into a building is a terrorist act. Both are examples of taking the lives of innocents, or noncombatants, just to prove a point. Don't know about you, but the only point they prove to me is that they, or their religion they are "fighting" for, care very little about human life.
When was the last time you heard of a US military action that involved hijacking an airliner full of passengers and crashing it into an area full of other noncombatants?
Sometimes I wonder what the rest of the "civilized" world would think if we leveled the playing field and used the terrorists rules against them? Answer: We would be termed barbarians, and rightly so. If we located and wiped out the desert training camps used by various terrorist organizations, killing everyone in each camp, the world outcry would be enormous........all the "innocent people" who had died, just for associating with an organization that blatantly plotted murder just to make themselves feel important.
IMO, Hussein should have been dealt with years ago, like 10 or more years ago. But the UN, in it's infinite wisdom, chose to sit on it's hands and make resolutions that are not worth the paper they are written on. Someone has to step up and make the hard decisions, buck the system, and take the guy out. UN sanctions did not kill Iraqis, Sadam Hussein did. Does he look unhealthy? If people are starving there because of the UN sanctions, how can he afford to keep his military up and build himself palaces?
I am not totally comfortable with what we are doing in Iraq, but I trust GWB to make the right decisions based on the intelligence he gets from our sources, be they American or from another country.
I do know this much: As long as Bush is in office, we in America finally have a leader who is going to take a hard line on the killing of Americans "just because they are Americans". Call it idealism, call it blind loyalty, but growing up I remember my sister being told not to travel overseas because Americans were being targeted by terrorists just for the simple fact that she was Americans The individual person did not have to have done anything wrong, just being an American made you a target.
That likely won't stop now, but we have a leader in office now who will do everything in his power to make it a risk to do that now.
Maybe I misread you question, but if not, you have my reply.
-
Originally posted by BlauK
How come it is called "legimate war" when civilians in Iraq get killed by americans, but US homefront is warned of possible "terrorist acts" if Iraq retaliates?
Because of the uniforms?
...just wondering.
During any military conflict, civilian casualties are a probability. Thats a war.
During peacetime, when civilians are TARGETED, thats terrorism.
Can you really not see the difference between 9/11 and the action in Iraq?
-
Yes, I'll defend unto death your right to say and believe such things. They still sadden me. Think such things after you've seen a member of the Mukhabarat drag a nine year old girl into the street and shoot her in the back of the head because her father decided to speak for what he believed in.
Is it about oil? Of course not, it's about the liberation of a people from a cruel, oppressive dictator. Having access to the Iraqi oil fields may very well be a side-effect of this war. Frankly if we free the people from that government's grip, I don't care for what reasons it's really being done.
I turned 26 in the mountains of Northern Iraq.
-
"the never check 6 lists continue to grow"
What the heck has, check- six in AH GAME , to do with a political discussion???
You dont give CK6 those which dont agree with your opinion??
Strange indeed, maybe I'llbe the next:D
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
So when do we attack Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to name but two countries?
One at a time. :)
-
1953: US overthrows elected Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran
US installs Shah as dictator
1954: US overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of
Guatemala.
200,000 civilians murdered
1963: US backs murder of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-1975:
American Military murders 4 million people in Southeast Asia, US used Chemicals weapons on a massive scale..
Sept 11, 1973:
US stages coup in Chile Democratically elected Presiden Salvador Allende Assassinated
Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed
5,000 Chileans murdered
1977: US backs military rulers of El Salvador
70,000 Salvadorans and four Amercian nuns killed
1980's: US trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill
Soviets, CIA gives them $3 billion
1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras."
1982: US provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to
kill Iranians
1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis
1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of
Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. US invades Panama
to protect the canal. In this 1989 invasion, Washington wiped out
Panama's military, along with about 6,000 Panamanian civilians who were
also murdered.
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from US
1991: US enters Iraq
Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait
1991 - present:
American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis.
UN estimates well over 700,000 Iraqi children have died from
bombing and sanctions
1998: Clinton bombs "weapon factory" in Sudan
Factory in fact made aspirin
2000-01: US gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in 'aid'
Sept 11, 2001:
Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000
people
Quite the resume of destabilization and terror, i hear Sweden is nexted to many natural blondes.
-
Originally posted by Torque
1953: US overthrows elected Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran
US installs Shah as dictator
1954: US overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of
Guatemala.
200,000 civilians murdered
1963: US backs murder of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-1975:
American Military murders 4 million people in Southeast Asia, US used Chemicals weapons on a massive scale..
Sept 11, 1973:
US stages coup in Chile Democratically elected Presiden Salvador Allende Assassinated
Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed
5,000 Chileans murdered
1977: US backs military rulers of El Salvador
70,000 Salvadorans and four Amercian nuns killed
1980's: US trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill
Soviets, CIA gives them $3 billion
1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras."
1982: US provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to
kill Iranians
1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis
1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of
Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. US invades Panama
to protect the canal. In this 1989 invasion, Washington wiped out
Panama's military, along with about 6,000 Panamanian civilians who were
also murdered.
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from US
1991: US enters Iraq
Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait
1991 - present:
American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis.
UN estimates well over 700,000 Iraqi children have died from
bombing and sanctions
1998: Clinton bombs "weapon factory" in Sudan
Factory in fact made aspirin
2000-01: US gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in 'aid'
Sept 11, 2001:
Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000
people
Quite the resume of destabilization and terror, i hear Sweden is nexted to many natural blondes.
I think I'll just quote your entire post and let your interesting characterizations speak for themselves.... Nothing else need to be done to illustrtare your madness and blind hatred of america.
-
Miko, for your review:
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature.
-
Sab says...
We're creating an ever bigger pool of terrorists by our lack of human respect around the world.
Ok..how about you prove what your saying?>
Sab also says...
I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party.
Ya..sure seems like you are already Biased...so why even bother with you. So when peoplle do drugs in there life it makes them "un-creditble'?
You have to be kidding yourself..People HATE the US..what the diddly DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO CHANGE THERE MINDS??
Send them more medice or food like North Korea..? lmfao
Saburo..I think you are a moron.
-
Three weekends ago, millions of demonstrators across the globe protested on behalf of "human rights." Their marches, slogans, placards and speeches did not declaim against Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, did not cite the human rights reports detailing his tyranny and torture, did not take account the plaints of Iraqis fortunate enough to live in exile.
Rather, they protested the U.S. and the U.K. and their efforts to topple Saddam and liberate Iraq. Now, we are seeing more television advertisements along these lines, and even a "virtual march on Washington."
Just after the celebration of Abraham Lincoln’s birthday, it is appropriate to remember his lament: "The world has never had a good definition of the word ‘liberty.’" With Saddam flouting international law, and President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair attempting to enforce it, portrayals of Bush as Adolf Hitler — as we saw and heard in the "human rights" protests — betray an ignorance of liberty, an ignorance of right and wrong, an ignorance of commonsense. Because Bush and Blair are putting together a coalition of countries to oust Saddam, they are labeled the warmongers and tyrants. We live in a confusing time indeed.
Lincoln described liberty by a useful analogy: "The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty." Lincoln made it clear who the sheep was and who the wolf was. It is equally important to recognize who the liberator is.
Those who march against the U.S. and the U.K. today, those who condemn Bush and Blair and remain silent when it comes to Saddam, are in league with the wolf’s view that the shepherds are destroying liberty. The people of Iraq will soon know what Afghanis know. The true wolf was devouring Afghanis, the true shepherd saved them.
It is worth remembering what those in the former Soviet republics know and what the anti-American Western street has forgotten: It was, and is, U.S. and British resolve that truly liberates the oppressed and that defends the lives and liberties of the free against the appetites and ill-will of the world’s dictators.
In 1998 then-President Bill Clinton stated: "What if he [Saddam] fails to comply [with disarmament] and we fail to act? He will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then go right on building up his arsenal. Someday, someway, I guarantee you, he'll use that arsenal." Last year, former Vice President Al Gore stated, "[W]e know that he [Saddam] has stored away secret supplies of biological weapons and chemical weapons throughout his country."
It is not President Bush who woke up one day to discover that Saddam was making and harvesting weapons of mass destruction. Yet it is Bush who is blamed for doing something about it. Saddam may be mad, but he is not a scientist. He does not collect chemical and biological weapons for mere pleasure and intrigue. Just ask the survivors of Halabja. So when Saddam acts, it will be Bush and America who are blamed for inaction, for appeasement. We will be liable for such blame because we are the only ones who can do something about it.
We are not at war with Muslims or Arabs around the world; we are at war with some Muslim and Arab leaders who misinterpret their religion and put a primacy on war over peace and slavery over freedom. But among the leadership in the world’s moral democracies there is no misinterpretation, and nowhere is that more true than in the case of the U.S.
This is not a new role for us, but is a unique role we proudly inherit as the world’s liberator. As Wolf Blitzer pointed out: "Over the past two decades, almost every time U.S. military forces have been called into action to risk their lives and limbs, it's been on behalf of Muslims. ... [T]o assist the Afghan mujahadin … during the Soviet invasion in the 1980s, to liberate Kuwait following the Iraqi invasion of 1990, to help Somali Muslims suffering at the hands of a warlord in Mogadishu, to help Muslims first in Bosnia and then in Kosovo who faced a Serb onslaught, and more recently to liberate Afghanistan from its Taliban and Al Qaeda rulers."
Those who protest against the U.S. just now are legatees of those who protested against the U.S. in the 1980s, when we fought the focus of evil then, the Soviet Union. But ask a former Soviet, or East Berliner, if he is better off now than he was, say, 15 years ago. Ask a Nicaraguan. Ask a Bosnian Muslim. U.S. resolve can be thanked for all that, even as those who protested our defense and military postures marched in favor of appeasement.
Indeed, we live in a strange time when the anti-nuclear movement and its leaders of yesterday can today suggest a course of inaction such that Saddam will be able to join North Korea in becoming a nuclear power. The only logical conclusion one can reach is that for the protesters today, weapons in the hands of the U.S. are to be met with outrage while weapons in the hands of Saddam are to be met with silence.
We seek to liberate Iraq today, not only because for Saddam "[t]orture is not a method of last resort in Iraq, it is often the method of first resort," according to Kenneth Pollack, President Clinton’s director of Gulf Affairs at the NSC. We seek to liberate Iraq because after Sept. 11, 2001, we were put on notice. We were put on notice that civilized people can no longer live in a bubble and hope for the best. We were put on notice that there are fanatics and tyrants who want nothing from us but our death. And this notice requires action: the action of the brave, the action of the unthanked, the action of the free.
In Iraq as in other contemporary situations, the responsibility to act has been ours because the ability has been ours. The responsibility has been ours because oppressed people look to us for their deliverance. There is a duty in being the nation that Abraham Lincoln, speaking of our Declaration of Independence, called "a rebuke and a stumbling-block to the very harbingers of re-appearing tyranny and oppression." That is who we happen to be. And it is an honor.
William J. Bennett,
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I think I'll just quote your entire post and let your interesting characterizations speak for themselves.... Nothing else need to be done to illustrtare your madness and blind hatred of america.
GRUNHERZ,
Obviously you believe those things didn't happen.
What if they were true? Can we say then that you were ignorant of US foreign policy?
Would you still believe that Torque was insane and had a "blind hatred of america"?
Why do you consider that one posts what they believe are facts to be hating the US?
Is he calling for the murder of Americans?
Is he calling for Terror attacks against America and/or Americans?
Is he trying to destroy our rights we enjoy as Americans?
Perhaps he has a love of the country that perhaps to illustrate some history that hopefully won't be repeated?
Trust me on this: Our country will not collapse because of dissent.
BTW, don't confuse your statements of others as fact. It is your opinion only.
By all means continue to prove your manhood by flaming away and showing your blind hatred.
-
BGBMAW,
In short, it is full of double standards. Our government is acting on double standards(nothing new in that BTW).
I'll ask you this: Is international law to be followed by ALL countries? Not just Iraq, Iran, North Korea, (------- insert any nation you don't like), but also our country?
Are we talking about following int'l laws only now or are we to include the past?
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
...or do you save all your accusations for Democrats only?
Yes, because there are so many democrats I blame for everything.
Sure the balls been rolling for decades now, but this is the first time that I'm living through seeing first hand our lack of world support for a military action so large. (I was too young for Vietnam). We could have chosen diplomacy, but we're set on war.
We're adding fuel to the fire of our true enemies.
Diplomacy? I don't suppose the 12 years of diplomacy has proven to be a complete failure?
It has, if you think it was a success... then I guess taking 12 years to build a highway that should take 6 months isn't a complete waste of taxpayers money.
Vietnam was something entirely different. However, when a nation (S. Vietnam) asks you for your help- what do you do? If you turn a blind eye, then you probably would fit in with those who didn't support us then... and I despise those people, they are the same type of people who will pretend to be your friends until you do something they don't agree with, then they leave you high and dry. They don't even deserve the title of fair weather friends.
In the case of Iraq, maybe you like to sit there and be complacent and give in to Saddam... but some of us got tired of that. If you don't think the UN has been giving into Saddam, then tell, why exactly has it taken 12 years just to get the inspectors into the country long enough that they actually find Al Samoud-2 missles? Something Saddam didn't claim existed until was found. Something that should of been claimed in 1991.
World support doesn't mean anything, especially when most of it is uninformed BS hearsay.
-SW
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
GRUNHERZ,
Obviously you believe those things didn't happen.
No, go read my post....
-
Sab... :rolleyes:
simple response..no
and where do you read all your news from? Any specific source?
"We run tings...Tings no Run We"
-Don Wani- Third World Cop-
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
Sab... :rolleyes:
simple response..no
and where do you read all your news from? Any specific source?
Your "simple response..no" is to which of the questions I asked?
To answer your questions: Various newspapers, magazines, tv shows such as the BBC, PBS, CNN, articles from the internet usually via google. I like to get multiple viewpoints of the same incident if possible.
How about you?
-
thougth your were going to say PETA and Greenpeace..lolo
no mostly Drudge report- which links to all major AP and other folks,,, I wacth Fox News a little CNN but they were so Blatant about pro-Clinton/ anti-Bush i toejam on the channel now (Ted Tuner is a hunk of toejam) i do really like the Turner Classic movie Channel tho :)
And no was to both your questions..
I dont think we should be in "internatinal Court" look at some of these countries and who runs them?
I mean come on..You want our soldiers judged by IRan? Syria? France? Russia?..etc... These countries Gov hate what we stand for..diddly them Burn in hell..and yes not all of the people..Hell like here in the USA..we could really "shed" some of these people..Daschle-Byrd..Buchanon...list goes on...
We are the Best Country this world has ever had or ever will ..
We are a hybrid of this world.that is why we are so dam good.
we have all come from other countries to this place. The founding fathers were so diddlying smart they wrote down toejam that works 200 years later!
Bill of Rights!!!! dam its good...
BiGB
-
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Diplomacy? I don't suppose the 12 years of diplomacy has proven to be a complete failure?
It has, if you think it was a success... then I guess taking 12 years to build a highway that should take 6 months isn't a complete waste of taxpayers money.
Sorry, but I guess we'll never find out if diplomacy would have worked or not. In the last few months through tremendous pressure by the US and Great Britain, we were going in the right direction.
Our motives have been shifting up to our invasion. Our demands kept changing.
I will give you this:
If after the invasion is over and Saddam is gone, and Iraq has free elections, civil rights, freedom of the media, trade unions, liberties, and dissidents allowed to protest (no one being thrown in jail, tortured, killed because of their political beliefs), then I'll admit I was completely wrong. I hope I am wrong.
BTW, I'm still waiting for that to happen in Afghanistan.
Vietnam was something entirely different. However, when a nation (S. Vietnam) asks you for your help- what do you do? If you turn a blind eye, then you probably would fit in with those who didn't support us then... and I despise those people, they are the same type of people who will pretend to be your friends until you do something they don't agree with, then they leave you high and dry. They don't even deserve the title of fair weather friends.
-SW
Vietnam was an experiment that failed. Early on right after Ho Chi Minh took power, he idealised the US that he made the Vietnamese constitution basically a copy of our own. We passed up a prime time to open diplomatic relations. Instead we chose to isolate him and Vietnam, and side with France instead.
We supported and help split up Vietnam into two, North and South. I do believe that after the French withdraw, there was to be a unification vote by the Vietnamese to which the US was opposed. We propped up leaders (hell, we had one assasinated because he wasn't "effective" in our eyes.). Did the South Vietnamese have liberty, freedom, and democracy? Hardly. Vietnam was our playground...our chip in the big game against the USSR. We miscalculated the Vietnamese resolve (they lost, what 2 million dead in that war? How many more injured?). We labeled them communists when in fact they were nationalists. After we finally realized that we couldn't win (oh we could have wiped out the entire nation but that wouldn't amout to a victory worth having), our politicians sold out our remaining "friends" in Vietnam just so our politicians could save face. Our soldiers and the Vietnamese in general were given the short end of the stick by our government.
Unfortunetly our govt has been fair weather friends to more than I'd like.
Bay of Pigs in Cuba
Mongolian resistance against the People's Republic of China
Iraqi resistance between the wars
Vietnam
Angola
...to name a few.
(sorry if my timelines and facts aren't spot on as I'm going on memories of my studies of 10-20 years ago.)
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
We have all come from other countries to this place. The founding fathers were so diddlying smart they wrote down toejam that works 200 years later!
Bill of Rights!!!! dam its good...
BiGB
Damn right. Too bad we don't share it with other nations. Perhaps you'll name some 3rd and 2nd world nations (allies) that enjoy our same civil liberties and rights. Sadly we prop up and support more totalitarian dictatorships than not. That's the dilema I face as a freedom loving American.
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
thougth your were going to say PETA and Greenpeace..lolo
And no was to both your questions..
BiGB
LOL, sorry to disappoint you but I don't read reports from Peta (hey, I like meat, beef, pork, chicken, fish, etc. I don't consider my food as pets.) Besides I presume PETA to not be a good source of info on things other than the treatment of animals. I'm more interested in the human condition.
I don't read much from Greenpeace either. I am more concerned with things other than how many dolphins are included with tuna. Don't get me wrong, as they seem to be worthwhile causes, just I am concerned with more important things to me.
You see the double standard I am talking about?
You said both the US and Iraq should not be held to international laws. Then why is the argument against Saddam using those same int'l laws (UN resolution to prove disarmament) as reasons against him? Kind of hypocritical to hold the rule of international law against those you disagree with, but to ignore international laws when it suits us. Either we all follow international laws or lets not even have them (welcome to global chaos).
-
Give'em hell BGBMAW <
> :D
-
Sorry, but I guess we'll never find out if diplomacy would have worked or not. In the last few months through tremendous pressure by the US and Great Britain, we were going in the right direction.
Sorry for what? Please, tell me.
Face it, it's been 12 years. Diplomacy isn't an action of giving more time, and not getting anything in return. Which is EXACTLY what happened in Iraq. UN kept on giving more time, Saddam kept on kicking UN inspectors out, and when they did get in- guess who got him in? That's right, threat of force by the US. Months later, they were back out again, or they were simply told they could not enter this facility or that facility. OR the UN inspectors were given death threats and told to leave the region.
We were never going in the right direction, even with the threat of _WAR_ (that's not tremendous pressure, that's do obey now, or we'll be on your bellybutton like white on rice very soon) Saddam was not providing us with the weapons he had in stock, and destroying them underneath the supervision of UN inspectors.
If we were moving in the right direction, Saddam would of told us "Hey, I got these missles I'm not supposed to have. Watch me destroy them!" Instead, the inspectors had to find them and then Saddam got to play the false cooperation card. "Hey, you found them... now watch me destroy them."
That's NOT how this deal works. It even says so in the resolutions.
We weren't going in the right direction at all, it was simply proven evident to those who have been paying attention for the past 12 years that Saddam is still playing games.
Our motives have been shifting up to our invasion. Our demands kept changing.
The invasion has been imminent for a year now. Saddam is a dictator, he knows damn well a massing of troops in his region indicates war. This began a year ago. He had a year to comply with past resolutions- he did not. OUR demands did not change, they have been the same for 12 years- Show us a list of your weapons, and destroy them under UN weapons inspectors supervision. He hadn't accomplished this up to the point he was given an ultimatum. He did not comply with the ultimatum either, he brought this on himself.
If after the invasion is over and Saddam is gone, and Iraq has free elections, civil rights, freedom of the media, trade unions, liberties, and dissidents allowed to protest (no one being thrown in jail, tortured, killed because of their political beliefs), then I'll admit I was completely wrong. I hope I am wrong.
Hey, if 12 years hadn't passed and Saddam complied from the getgo, we wouldn't be where we are today.
We can play the what-if game till the cows come home, we are where we are because Saddam brought us here.
BTW, I'm still waiting for that to happen in Afghanistan.
Red herring.
As for Vietnam- Vietnam was a no win from the getgo, we were there to keep the South Vietnamese from being taken over by North Vietnam. If we had taken over North Vietnam, then it would of been a win... for the S. Vietnamese. But of course, we'd be the same as the Romans or Germans(in WWII). Invade and conquer. A lot of that stuff you threw in there, such as the 2 million dead (the South Vietnamese kept fighting after we left, that shows you how much they didn't want to be taken over by the North) is a side issue. The war was fought to prevent South Vietnam to be taken over by the North. Yes, it was a means to shove toejam in the face of the USSR. Nevertheless, you ask any S. Vietnamese person (assuming we could go back in time) while our forces were there- they were happy to have the US fighting on their side. They did _NOT_ want to be taken over. We found out that the North wanted the South so bad, they were willing to just keep on dying to get it.
Point still stands- Vietnam is a different issue than Iraq, and the South Vietnamese were extremely happy to have the US there preventing them from being taken over.
We could still be there today, and the US body count would be in the millions. Hindsight is always 20/20... I'd like to see the decisions you make in the same position.
It's easy to criticize, it's never easy to be the decision maker.
EDIT for spelling, it may not be perfect, had a lil to drink.
-SW
-
there may be double standards...
To me its kind of like..
Nuclear weapons..WHY CANT we all have them!!
Why can only some have them...?
Is this a double standard..?
Hell yes..you know why Saburo?..Let me here you on this one..
Im sure you know..there are humans in this world that cant run their own lives let alone a Gov'
SO.....
Saburo...my virtual friend.. Double Standards will always be needed...Because not all "humans" have the same logic and common sense as the rest of"us"
Love-Hate
BiGB
xoxo