Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StSanta on March 20, 2003, 09:57:48 AM
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With war here and there, aid offers in the billions, toejameloads of cash for terrorist prevention, tax cut that will only have a real effect on a small part of population, cost of rebuilding Iraq etc. etc.?
Spending is increasing dramatically and the deficits getting larger and larger. Every day I see Bush promising money for this and that - without having them.
*I* get worried when I see it. Let us disregard that Bush is leader and reps in power and just look at the economy of it all. Aren't you the least bit concerned?
The state of the US economy indirectly affects me and my employment. It directly affects you chaps. So what are your thoughts? The money he is giving out has to come from somewhere sometimes, which means you.
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Deficit spending ended the cold war...maybe it will help fight terrorism...time will tell. While I am normally against tax hikes for Pork barrel projects, military spending and money for increased security is something I don't mind spending money on.
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Provide pre-bush figures on spending with current spending. Seems your post is based on the media reports rather than the figures.
The last U.S. Economy peak was 1998. It started to decline a year and a half prior to George entering office. Our economy is not trying to recover from presidential spending policy, it is trying to recover from massive losses in the .COM sector that virtually every retirement package and mutual fund delved into despite their own good judgement.
I'm more interested in stability as far as investing goes right now.
MiniD
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"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
This much we pledge-and more. Let both sides unite to heed in all corners of the earth the command of Isaiah- 'to undo the heavy burdens...and let the oppressed go free.' All this will not be finished in the first 100 days, nor will it be finished in the first 1,000 days, nor in the life of this Administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin. In your hands, my fellow citizens, more than mine will rest the final success or failure of our course."
John F. Kennedy.
his words ring in my ears.. my heart. our souls.
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short answer - nope
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Originally posted by Mini D
Seems your post is based on the media reports rather than the figures.
This is a rather commen trend as of late.
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Well, the media has reportde accurately increases in spending on security. War in Iraq costs a lot. Tax cut also takes some cash.
And the economy has slown down a lot. So what I am saying isn't directly from some news site; it's just common sense; less money coming into the treasure chest, yet more money being spent. UNLESS he is cutting back on something; am not well enough versed in the US economy to say it.
But the fact is that you u were well in the black before, and are now well in the red. Not saying it is Bushs fault; it is the economy. Am just saying it seems as if he's spending MORE despite f this, instead of trying to cut costs. Since Saurdakar's confidence is on the verge of arrogance, I'd kindly ask him to help educate me; mayhap you can show me that Bush is spending less than previous admins (which he said spent way too much, and in his election speeches he pledged to spend less).
Saurdakar, I realize that the lines are drrawn up in the sand vs reps and dems, but I am neither. My questions aren't an attack on Bush but rather a real question based, as you said, on what I have read (and most of that naturally come from the media, which I find quite natural since they report on these things).
So you are in the red no doubt, and deficit spending according to the media going up. Can anyone point me to an authorative source proving what I've read wrong, or is what I read valid enough?
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Not worried.
There are some economic views that a tax cuts, increased government spending (deficit spending) and increasing the money supply are just the right medicine for an economy that is in slowdown mode or recession.
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I've been counting the Tomahawks, and GPB's that have hit Baghdad so far.
Let me see.....doing the math....
I'm out $64.38 so far.
Where do I send my check?:D
I know how to pay for the war without affecting our taxes. Make the news coverage Pay-Per-View!
Sad, but true. (And yes, I'm watching...not proud of it, but I can't help it)
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It's basic macroeconomics - increased government spending stimulates the economy. There are long term problems with deficit spending of course. You can't do it indefinitely. Only in times of crisis. And I would say the time from 9/11 to present qualifies as crisis. In the short term it's the best and most direct thing the government can do to stimulate the economy.
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I saw an analysis where it compared in "real dollars" adjusted for inflation the expected costs of the war with Iraq was like 10% of the cost of WWII.
The cost compared to what we spent freeing the europeons is trivial.
Tell ya what, let us worry about our budget. Old europe can worry about appeasing dictators.
Wab
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HANGTIME,
Hmmm... what city in what country did he say that?
Thought so
I will and continue to pay for freedom and will pay anything for it(life included) I may want to stop sending my $$ to others who just support us for the money in good times only.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Old europe can worry about appeasing dictators.
Santa is from Denmark, who have been quite supportive of the US in the war on terror.
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The deficit is somewere around 3% of GDP under in the 80's it was around 8%.
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I'm out $64.38 so far.
Naww, those are already paid for. May as well get your money out of 'em and start launching them somewhere. Also, just like any retailer, there comes a time to dump the older models to make room for newer models.
;)
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spending money on hunting terrorists does not bother me, but this war has nothing to do with hunting terrorists, so spending money on this bothers me.
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I'm with hangtime.
That being said,
Now is not the time for americans to debate this question.
Now is the time to show support for our president & our troops in harms way.
8:00 am this morning my flag went out.
guys, best of luck.
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No worries about Bush spendings, he is just investing.
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Originally posted by Hristo
No worries about Bush spendings, he is just investing.
Hristo did you overdose on smart pills today or something?
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Here are the tax income and spending numbers.
(http://www.newsbatch.com/bothgdp.gif)
Deficit spending has made it to where more than 15% of our taxes every year go to paying interest on the debt. Not making it smaller so it goes away someday, just servicing it. This number is going back up.
Republican economics do not make long term sense to me. I can see where tax cuts can stimulate the economy, but how is perpetual deficit spending good? The tax pie available for things other than debt service keeps shrinking.
Democrats are typically not any better, but yhe only president to oversee our country's operation on a balanced budget since I have been a voter ('88) has been Clinton. How's that for a legacy?;)
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Americans have paid for so much since WW2 that this is just a drop in the bucket. We can afford it and it is right.
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Lance I agree. You can't do it indefinitely. I think 9/11 and the resulting economic downturn are a good reason to do it. But if we aren't heading towards a balanced budget by the next fiscal year I am going to be very pissed.
Originally posted by Lance
Here are the tax income and spending numbers.
(http://www.newsbatch.com/bothgdp.gif)
Deficit spending has made it to where more than 15% of our taxes every year go to paying interest on the debt. Not making it smaller so it goes away someday, just servicing it. This number is going back up.
Republican economics do not make long term sense to me. I can see where tax cuts can stimulate the economy, but how is perpetual deficit spending good? The tax pie available for things other than debt service keeps shrinking.
Democrats are typically not any better, but yhe only president to oversee our country's operation on a balanced budget since I have been a voter ('88) has been Clinton. How's that for a legacy?;)
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dudes...i would gladly pay an additional 1% sales tax on everything I buy if I could be assured that the money would be spent on missiles... i love missiles...
besides....we have more money than we know what to do with. After all, look at all the money we throw at toejamhead countries that dont appreciate anything we do.
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Originally posted by ET
Americans have paid for so much since WW2 that this is just a drop in the bucket. We can afford it and it is right.
Actually the whole point is that we can't afford it. We are having to borrow in order to pay for it!
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Here's the current figure (roughly):
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 20 Mar 2003 at 08:13:02 PM GMT is:
$6,471,035,430,925.22
The estimated population of the United States is 290,729,006
so each citizen's share of this debt is $22,257.96
Current Debt (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)
The debt really took off in 1983:
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Why the hell are so many non Americans worried about the American spending?
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N1kPas,
Zakley right
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Originally posted by Ghosth
I'm with hangtime.
That being said,
Now is not the time for americans to debate this question.
Now is the time to show support for our president & our troops in harms way.
8:00 am this morning my flag went out.
guys, best of luck.
Support for the president and support for the troops are not mutually inclusive. You can have one without the other.
I'm 100% behind the troops. I'm also 100% against this campaign. I'd call it a war but that upsets my Constitutional sensibilities.
Oh... and the answer to the original question... YES, I am worried.
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Lance I agree. You can't do it indefinitely. I think 9/11 and the resulting economic downturn are a good reason to do it. But if we aren't heading towards a balanced budget by the next fiscal year I am going to be very pissed.
Yeah, we'll have to see whether we get back on a balanced budget or if its going to be more of the same old decades of deficit spending. I have my doubts based on the past republican administrations, but if Bush gets us back on a balanced budget, I'll give him due credit.
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Santa is from Denmark, who have been quite supportive of the US in the war on terror.
I don't give a toejam. Like I said, its our concern not his. They sure didn't mind us spending that money when it was keeping their bellybutton free. Not Santa in specific, but the "euro" ilk.
Wab
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Originally posted by Martlet
Why the hell are so many non Americans worried about the American spending?
coz economy is interconnected....
Japan support you coz, they will follow your economy to the hell, hey are very dependent on your economy.. its old problem since 70`s or so
and so is europe.... but dont worry we are seeking new options
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but dont worry we are seeking new options
LoL. You do that comrade.
What are you going to do? Corner the mail-order bride market? I hear thats your biggest export.
LoL.
Wab
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nearly toejam my drawers, wab.. LOL!
Corner the mail-order bride market? I hear thats your biggest export.
eagle-shit; questions for yah:
1. has you government paid it's troops, sailors and pilots the back pay it owes 'em yet?
2. is it 1 billion or 2 we've sent you in aid so far???
3. you always been an ungrateful piece of toejam, or is this a recent accomplishment?
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nah,shucks yall, why worry, we'll simply pull out of the UN , save a bundle there, and quit funding 3rd world nations around the world, hell ,we might even make money doing that, besides when we increase tariffs on French imports into our nation, that will no doubt help as well.
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and quit funding 3rd world nations around the world,
like russia?
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LMAO
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Hm, Wabbit and others.
I apologize for being interested in your country. Also, it was not my intention to piss anyone off - just a general and genuine question. Usually when I ask others about things that concern them they are appreciative, accepting it as a sign of me caring, which usually is the case. If I want to insult someone there's usually no doubt that I've done that, assuming people reading the stuff has reasonable cognitive skills.
Am naturally inquisitive and will continue to be so. If I want to know the opinions of people on this board, I am going to ask them. Sorry Wabbit that you're angry at all Europeans and think we have no business minding your business - but please understand that I am no interfering - I'm asking about your opinion. Also; the US economy is the largest in the world. My industry - the IT industry - here in DK is made out of lot of sub-contractors for US commpanies. So your economy effects me directly, which is why (in part) I am wondering if I have any reason to worry because of this deficit spendiing thing.
Lance's chart helped me get the big picture, and as such has educated me. Many thanks to him and other posters who made contributions and refrained from being rather rude for the sole reason of me being located on the other side of the Atlantic.
One thing Yanks; you can come off as very friendly but also pretty hostile, some of you. Smile, dance with cute girls and always wear a towel. I do all that, and life is easier and more fun because of it. :)