Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Urchin on March 21, 2003, 11:56:54 AM
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OK, this goes out to all the new folks flying the spit/n1k. I constantly see them make mistakes that get them killed, so I will try to post some easy stuff that will help.
First off- if you bounce another plane, be aware of his speed. If he is going a lot slower than you, he will probably try to sucker you into flying in front of his guns. I'll put in a poorly drawn diagram here.
Whoops, I messed up my diagram. Read 'attack' instead of 'turn' for time 2
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That's in the Fighter Combat book, isn't it, Urchin? Scan the diagrams from there (if there are some and you have a scanner), or if you find some and don't have a scanner, let me know the page # and I'll do it.
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Probably be a copyright violation to scan it directly from the book- I don't think a diagram of that is in there anyway though.
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how come icant find any 250 mph 109,s to fight ??????:mad:
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That's because hoardes of 250mph Spits and N1K2s are already fighting your 38, cobia :D
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pff urchin.. i can just cut out the text and page numbers and such. And I highly doubt the publisher / author would give 2 shts that a page or 2 was scanned and posted on some forum approximately 0.000000000000001% of the population looks at :D
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Originally posted by wetrat
And I highly doubt the publisher / author would give 2 shts that a page or 2 was scanned and posted on some forum approximately 0.000000000000001% of the population looks at :D
heh don't forget that it usually ends with
'Everyone who flies in AH should own a copy of this book."
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Wetrat, the author, Colonel Shaw aka Mouse, flies here.
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Typical average Spit/n1k dweeb combat manouver
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lol freeze!
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Originally posted by qts
Wetrat, the author, Colonel Shaw aka Mouse, flies here.
ya don't say?
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Freeze, I dissagree with your circle number 76, at this point the "standar" 25% fuel spit/n1k2 is on fumes :D
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Damn i thought i only draw 75 cirlces :)
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lmao freeze
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(http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/Info/Urch.jpg)
Here Urch re label this image and add your text
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That is really nice Wotan, how did you do that?
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Make screenshots from AH spit and FW.
Reduce the sice and use a photoshop to remove the backround.
Then safe each image and import it in the picture u want to create.
:)
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Yup :)
Freeze is right
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Batz and Urchin, these diagrams show a spit absolutelly unaware of the 190 presence and the same for the 190, what do these diagrams try to explain? The 190 reaction once it detects the unaware spit? Cant find any other explanation, unless the 190 path is well above the spit one.
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Well if you read Urchins premise the 190 is lo and slo the spit is high coming in fast and overshoots. The 190 breaks right the spit does a flat turn but because of his speed the turn is wide and again he overshoots this time into the guns of the 190.
This happens 100 times a day in the main.
Is all explained in Urchins post I just made an image for him.
No 2 nme planes arent flying parallel to each other completely unaware. The spit is bouncing the 190.
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updated version
(http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/Info/Urch.jpg)
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1 thing this aint a guide as to how to kill a spit fire, it shows what not to do while in a spit / niki or any "turner".
The spit can out trun the 190 but the key is the speed of the spit. The spit has a wider circle then the 190 because of its speed.
Also have some imagination while looking at the image. It wont necessarily be a 90 degree break by the 190. He just turns enough to cause the spit to overshoot. The spit should zoom or as Urchins points out turn in the opposite direction.
The problem ya get is most spits are newbies and they assume that a spit or niki etc should be able to out turn anything. They can but as speed increases your turning circle gets wider. The spit will get around a faster but with the wider turn the 190 can stay inside to atleast get a snapshot.
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Well, it seems there is some problem with Urchin post, I cant find any diagram.
Anyway, what I see everytime is the spit pointing directly to the target and spraying like mad, never parallel. In your diagram, you should imagine the spit's nose tracking the 190 movements every time till the overshoot. And, if the overshoot is achieved due a break turn of the 190, instead scissoring, the resulting angle woulbe be of 90 degrees or more, so, the supposed flat turn of the spit will place it more than 400 yards away of 190 guns in the first wide circle just to end at the 190 tail in 5 seconds more.
You should also consider the corner speed of the spit, well, not the corner speed but the range of speeds where it outturns the 190 at any speed. You will probably find out that the spit, even above 300mph, can outturn a 190 at any speed.
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mandoble this happens 100 times in ah
The spit isnt chasing the 190, its start position is irrelevant. All that happens is a high spit dives on a lo and slo con. You can put any plane you want it any where it doesnt matter.
This pick images is similiar to what can be found in Shaws book. I suggest you give it a read. It seems you are confusing "outturn" with "turning circle".
A spit will out turn the 190 but because of the spits high speed its turning circle is wider. The 190 is simply turning into the attacker cutting his angle. When comes in at high speed he will over shoot. Because he is fast his turning circle will be wider thus the 190 doesnt out turn anything.
This isnt a tip for 190 pilots, its for the spit pilot who will flat turn just like this and get killed everytime. I have killed hundreds of spits this way.
It seems you are confused in general. I dont how to make it any clearer. A faster plane will always have a wider turning circle.
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mandoble is just being disagreeable
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Originally posted by Batz
A faster plane will always have a wider turning circle.
In some cases (speeds), true when you compare plane A with plane A. Different lifts, drags, wing load and elevator authority make your asumption false when you compare plane A with plane B. A 300mph spit will outturn easily a 200mph 190, a 450 mph typhoon will outturn easily a 350mph 109 and so on.
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I can name u maybe 5 Pilots that fly spit were i am sure they know what ACM is. The rest is coming either straight down or straight up to get a shot at u.
They normally spray like mad and hopen the bullets will hit.
Its quiet rediclolous to see the n00bs loosing 5k alt or more just to strafe u HO hoping to hit a lucky bullet.
If they miss they normally do a breakturn to the left or right.
Depends on what relais on their 5$ stick from walmart isnt broken.
After that breakturn faild its goal all they do is flying circles. Round and round and round. Sometimes in a clever moment they puit a loop in.
I often broke up because its so redicolous to see. Like counter strike knife fight where u run around an enemy scissoring with ur knife and hoping for a lucky hit.
I have absolutly no respect. To many commercials to many quaker.
Thats the reason for me to put the game on hold. I so burned out and getting pissed after 10 minutes.
I cant see these hordes of spitn1kla7 n00bs anymore.
That had to be said.
Let the flames come
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Wow it helps! I feel better :)
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Mandoble- your assumption does hold true in certain situations. If a 200mph 190 and a 300 mph spit are turning IN THE SAME DIRECTION the Spit will indeed out-turn the 190.
In the situation I described (and drew my diagram for before it was removed because the BBS no longer supports it) the Spit and 190 are turning TOWARDS eachother. In that situation (a nose to nose turn), if the seperation between the two planes is LESS than the turning radius of the 'worse turning' plane, then speed becomes the deciding factor rather than turning ability. The Spitfire will still get around its circle faster than the 190- but in doing so it will 'fly out in front' of the slower 190. That is the situation a new Spit or N1K driver should seek to avoid.
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Mandoble the spit and 190 arent starting their turn at the same point. The 190 is cutting the angle and by turning into the spit which coming in at high speed.
The spit overshoots and starts a turn. The spit will have wide turning circle because of that speed.
It happens 100 times a day in the main.
You keep making assumptions that have no relation to the premise posed by Urchin.
It doesnt matter where the spit is at point 1. For arguements sake it can be any where high and behind the 3/9 line of the 190.
At point 2 the spit is coming in at high speed and the 190 turns into to it. The spit may try a tracking shot but with the high closure rate he most likely will miss.
At point 3 the spit has overshot and entered a flat turn.
Because of its speed his circle is wide and he ends up in the guns of the 190.
It happens 100 times a day in the main.
If you cant follow that then theres nothing else that can be said.
if the seperation between the two planes is LESS than the turning radius of the 'worse turning' plane, then speed becomes the deciding factor rather than turning ability
Thats why the 190 turns into the spit to cut off that turning radius. If the spit was smart he would zoom. But lots of cases they fall right for that trick and get killed.
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funny I only see Vets arguing over maneuvers......
and this is suppose to help a newbie......:eek:
simple.....
not to overshot......don't be so aggressive.....if ya miss...doesn't matter....as long as you keep your alt. or speed greater then enme.....you will get another shot.
overshootin is created by aggressive fighters.....who need the kill "right now" attitude......