Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: CurtissP-6EHawk on March 23, 2003, 08:26:19 PM
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Why is the Bf-109G-2 available? The MOTD says that it will not be enabled.
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Dont know afik it was not going to be enabled.
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It was enabled a few days ago, when jarbo stepped in and saw the Axis forces were like 8 people, and Allied were 22. Flying the F-4s in such conditions for pretty long time(I remember asking if a few Allied pilots could change to the Axis.. after a few minutes, the numbers gap actually grew larger!), the handful of Axis pilots were disgusted and utterly complaining how 'it was as forseen' where the only aircraft we would see in Tunisia was the SpitV..
The F-4 and SpitV is a close match up, but the vast number of CT noobs who simply won't pass the chance to fly a Spit for easy gaming, just hoarded to the Allied where the Spit was available and stayed there. Not surprising - such things happen with every setup where Spits and Hurris are involved..
So, as we were ranting by ourselves, I let out a big complaint "man, we could be faring a bit better if we at least had the G-2...".. and that's when jarbo stepped in the arena.. maybe he heard me.
He said he'll enable the G-2, but it was a temprary solution.
One thing I've noticed. After the G-2 was in the game, the numbers balanced out about 15 to 15. Some changed to Axis from Allied, some Allied noobs saw that they're getting banged around in their Spits and left, and some others newly logged in to the Axis.
That's what I know about the G-2. Maybe jarbo forgot to turn it off.
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Well I am not just a CT Staffer I am also a player:)
And I mean "spit dweab" it is a thing is spit out as i say it, I dont fly set up's whear I expect the enemy will up tons of spits because I have been playing since tour 3 and frankely have had my fill of fighting them, and I will not stoop tooo flying them. But ya cant shame a spit dweab out of his ride, he is after all a "dweab":)
Personaly I dont buy the bs line it's the man not the plane.
On the flip side fly what ya want and ignore the whiners, it is your 15 buck's, we are all intitled to our pet peaves and above is one of my favoret's:)
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Ok,
The Checkertails fly allied no matter what. We have LW squads growing. We will fly allied aircraft in non-furball tactics and missions as do some...at least one...LW squad, JG-3.
The Checkertails will not be flying the P-40E against the Bf-109G2. The G-2 is way too "uber" in a non-furballing fight. Bf-109G2, per AH chart, is 100mph faster at 20,000ft. The P-40E climbs almost 1500fpm slower than the P-40F and is almost 65mph faster than the P-40E at 20,000ft. The P-40F was used in Tunisia between June and Sept 43' as well as the P-47-11 in late 43'.
Cya in the MA :mad:
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
...The Checkertails will not be flying the P-40E against the Bf-109G2. The G-2 is way too "uber" in a non-furballing fight. Bf-109G2, per AH chart, is 100mph faster at 20,000ft....
who in the heck is at 20,000 feet in CT and what is he doing up there .... LOL
10k is an orbital alt in this map ... oops sorry -reads->Checkertails - that splains it :)
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Complait noted P6E though I must admit I never heard you complain about speed disadvantages when you had 440mph mustangs vs 390mph Bf109G2/6 in the ficticius greek scenario. Why do you assume that allies must always have the fastest planes?
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Ok,
The Checkertails fly allied no matter what.
Lots of folks have that attitude, which explains why I was one of 5 LW fighting 20 Allies for much of last night.
eskimo
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its the pilot not the plane
have killed numerous spitV's amd P40e's in my 109f this week while at the same time a few pilots have handed me my arse while they fly the same planes....I try to avoid those PILOTS :)
it's more the pilot than the plane..
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"It's the Piolet not the plane."
With all do respect that is and always will be the bigest crock of krap ever uttered with conviction in the history of Air Combat sim's. In time and place specific CT set up's certain Planes give real and preceaved advantages to players granted some good sticks like Eagler can do wounderious things with any plane but that does not change the fact of the former statement.
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I agree with Brady. "Its the pilot not the plane" is a bunch of crap. Such a statement ignores the fact that both sides in this arena will have a roughly equal distribution of pilots, ranging from the great ones to the average ones to newbies. Thus the plane types each side has will be the deciding factor.
Sure, a good pilot can defeat a less-skilled enemy who is flying a better plane, but that's not the goal of an arena setup. An arena setup should give equally-skilled pilots as close to an equal chance of success as possible.
In the case of the 109F versus Spit 5, they're fairly well-matched in performance...the 109 is quite a bit faster and it climbs better as well, while the Spit can turn tighter and has better diving performance. IMO what makes the Spit more popular is the HISPANO cannons which are a whole epoch more effective than the MG 151/20's (and making things worse is the probability that the 109F has too little cannon ammo). That massive difference in weapon effectiveness--both range AND punch--is what throws off the balance of this matchup. It's a shame that there isn't a way to somehow equalize the differences in weapons. Perhaps AH2 won't model them so drastically different.
J_A_B
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Strapping gondolas onto a 109 is a great equaliser in the firepower department.
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While the Gondals do help, it comes at a price, preformance and handeling, areas that the spit already has an advantage (low alt handeling), also the effective range of suxcessfully acheaving a hit is roughly twice that of the 20mm MG 151, and those hits are more effective per hit than the 20mm MG 151. But this is only part of the issue, As mentioned above the Spit is far less chalanging to fly than the 109 is, in other words piolets of lower skill levals can be deadly or as deadly as piolets of higher skill levals in a 109, more disipline and knowledge is required to fly the 109's in AH than the spits, at least to a realy effective and deadly degree.
The unrealistic low alt fighting and systems management simplifacation in AH realy playes to the Spits advantages as it does to many other popular planes in AH. Also the Spit is realy just a great Fighter, and thus who are real fans of it should shrug off this whining and keep flying it, although they should feal guilty:)
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Guilt is a big one in this setup. (feel it you spit dweebs!) What pisses me off is that so many people fly em I just cant do it. I know I would enjoy it.
109s have to be the most challenging plane to fly well in our whole planeset. Luckily, they are the fastest plane in town for this setup. Gondolas on the 109g2 are not too bad, you are still faster than anybody else.
I have been flying 202s as axis, and man what a squeak that is. I never knew the spit v handled better at 200mph.
I have been flying hurricanes as allied, and they are UBER!
Numbers have been even everytime I have been in. (twice)
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Try burning the wing tanks out first in the 202, it handels better in combat with them dry. But ya the Spit's are tough and the Bredas suck so you gota real seel them on the 12.7mm to get a kill. Also leaving the 7mm on the ground will help in handeling.
One thing though, a kill in the 202 is worth 6 in the spit in terms of acheavment, at least for me.
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No guilt here. Ill be in a Spit, and be getting killed by Eagler. SOmebody come up with the " No squeaking, everyone is happy, even Steven" setup please.
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That massive difference in weapon effectiveness--both range AND punch--is what throws off the balance of this matchup. It's a shame that there isn't a way to somehow equalize the differences in weapons. Perhaps AH2 won't model them so drastically different.
Interestingly, IL2: Forgotten battles also has a Hurricane IIC with 4x Hisp. MkII cannons.. I've noticed Hizookas are Hizookas anywhere be it AH or IL2 :D
Probably the only cannon in IL-2:FB where you can spray like as in AH, and expect a kill at over 300 meters.(I remember firing 8 rounds and knocking out a 109E-4 at 540 meters, in FB :D )
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its the pilot AND the plane :)
though I am ok in the 109, I stink up the place in just about every other airplane... so its both :)
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so you have to give people a huge advantage or they won't fly LW?
people who like "historical" euro planesets are sick of spits?
The 109f is a perfect match for the spit v but allmost every LW guy was B & Z ing in G2's?
that's what I got out of the experiance...
guess 109 and spit scenarios don't work... I sure didn't have any fun... was either fighting over scraps or totally gangbanged by B & Z 109's ... this is the first 109 vs spit ct I have tried and it sucked.
The finn russ one was fun... the zeke p40/f4f one was fun... this one was crap. put planes that have to engage against planes that die if they engage and you have an unfun mess.
I will be avoiding the euro sets.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I will be avoiding the euro sets.
lazs
109g2 was in the area during this time frame. they left it out at first trying to head off allied whineage...
enjoy pizza.
:D
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ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! Make it pepperoni!!!!
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was either fighting over scraps or totally gangbanged by B & Z 109's
"Fighting over scraps..." Hmmm, if I understand you correctly I can rephrase this as "was either gangbanging or being gangbanged."
Still, I logged in a couple times this week with even numbers. In both cases I logged back off within about an hour when the Allied numbers went up to 2x the Axis numbers.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Strapping gondolas onto a 109 is a great equaliser in the firepower department.
But I don't use gondolas, so what is my excuse in the G2? :o
Cavalear: Nice fight we had 'till the Spit showed up and chased me off. I thought we were pretty evenly matched (P-40 v 109G2) as long as you didn't turn fight, and I didn't compress chasing you. ;)
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Yea was fun but thats the way it goes, whenever its a good fight a spit arrives to spoil it :)
Although i was still gagging over the fact that i was unexpectedly finding myself fighting a G2 and thinking AAARGH why has this been enabled !
If memory serves me we both escaped with various holes in bodywork as spit forced you to disengage.
Oh and i am in the camp that thinks the 109-F was more than capable vs the spits.
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yep... gangbang or be gangbanged... with the g2 you better have a 2/1 allied superiority or you end up with high utouchable swarms of g2's over the base.. I am not surprised that shane approves of an untouchable fast plane in an otherwise even set tho.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... gangbang or be gangbanged... with the g2 you better have a 2/1 allied superiority or you end up with high utouchable swarms of g2's over the base.. I am not surprised that shane approves of an untouchable fast plane in an otherwise even set tho.
lazs
let me type this real slow-like.
109g2's.... were.... in... the... area.... extensively.....
here's another free clue for ya, tardlet: i always fly the outnumbered side. read that again. you get it yet?
do *you* ever fly anything other than allied in CT? in those rare times you deign to fly CT at all?
this is the CT not the DA, or so i've been repeatedly told.
don't see why the axis are always dealing with the handicaps of
a) earlier axis versions in a later dated setup
b) facing later allied versions stuck in an earlier dated setup.
c) gaping holes in the axis setups, particularly the pacific.
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Originally posted by lazs2
The 109f is a perfect match for the spit v but allmost every LW guy was B & Z ing in G2's?
lazs
Ever try flying the 109G-2 (or F or even E) against spit 5s?
Its a classic energy fighter Vs angles fighter match. Go round and round in a 109, and you die. Its much easier to get yourself into a bad situation in a 109 than it is in a spit.
When you get into trouble in a spit, you just turn. If you are good, you can time a turn and reverse on you attacker, but even a newbie can throw off a 109 attack by just clumbsily yanking the stick back anytime before the attacker shoots to kill.
In the 109, on the other hand, get a spit on your six and you are in much greater trouble. If you are low and slow, you are as good as dead. Sure, the 109s are a bit faster, the problem is staying alive while your machine accelerates from slow to top speed. If you go straight, your an easy target, juke around too much and you will nerver get out of range of those long reaching hispanos.
So how do you keep alive in a 109? Think ahead - boom and zoom. Timing is critical.
eskimo
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This is a general observation but it seems to me that the Axis pilots tend to fly with their heads and the Allied pilots tend to do whatever. This does not apply to everyone and certainly not to squads, well, not all of them, but as a newly converted Luftwhiner I find the fight to be more cerebral now and more rewarding. Success or failure, it seems to be a matter of who can intellectually outwit the opponent. I am going to say this again as to avoid miscommunication, THIS IS A GENERAL COMMENT AND NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS ANYONE. Just a general observation.
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Both planes are fun. I kill ... I get killed. Some pilots kill me repeatedly .... in either. Some only kill me occasionally ... in one or the other. Some I kill occasionally ... in one or the other.
sweety B!itch sweety. It's a tradition. So shoot me. :D
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I think the problem here is that historical fights are not interesting.
I turn and burn (staying vertical as long as possible) in the 202.
I die sure, but at least it works for a little while.
I boom and zoom in the 109s. period. Then i get slow and die. period.
Spit vs? I do both and kick bellybutton (although I am not flying them in this map). then die.
Now the hurricane tears em apart.
I think this map is fine, I think the plane match up is great. I dont see anything to complain about.
You guys just want to have ww1 style fights with ww2 style planes.
If that is what you want, just wait till the next bob setup. or a biplane to be included in ah.
Dont blame these pilots or planes. They just dont play the same way.
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it's the plane. however, the pilot who flies his inferior plane to it's strengths and against the weaknesses of the superior plane can come out on top.
yeah, any newbie can yank back on the stick of a Spit V to avoid trouble from the rear quarter. Any one with an inkling of SA and ACM should realize that's what they're doing and adjust accordingly. Keep it fast if there are other threats to you and extend. If not, go vertical and roll your lift vector to where the Spit is gonna be.
Having said that, the G-2 is uber if you keep your speed up in this setup.
Having said THAT, the Spit V can handle a 109G-2 in a co-E situation. It can frustrate most 109 pilots from a disadvantaged situation as well.
Friday night I had some pretty good fights. At first it sucked in the over 2-1 Allied advantage. Some whining got a few to jump to Axis and we had a very good fight between 2 and 55 (or 54, whatever it was) the rest of the night. I ended up switching to Allied and flying with Arlo and Eta45 (or some number, hehe) at the end of the night to re-even out the odds.
I'm sorry, but you're not going to get turning matches with Spits/Hurri's vs 109s if there's a smart pilot in the 109. That's suicide for the 109.
The 109G-2 was in Tunisia. So was the 190A-5 (tho the A-4 was more prevalent, ifluff'n I'm not mistaken.) Both planes should be in this CT setup if this is a historical setup.
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Is it Friday yet?
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shane... now heres a clue for you... No need for me to say it slow tho... it's written... the clue is... read what I write before you respond.
I never said anything about your flying with or against the numbers... allied or axis ... who cares? what I did say was that I was not surprised that you advocated having a plane in an otherwise even set that was much faster and accelerated and climbed better. You seem to have a real fondness for such behavior.
Now..., for those able to read... if this is all about strict adherance to history then why not just hand out a script and we can all be "WWII re-enacters" ? I fly for good fights... good fights have some parity.... the ability to dodge 1, maybe 2 or 3 much faster planes with much better climb rates for a long time is not really parity... nor, is it much fun. For me... it wouldn't be much fun on either side.
but.. if you simply want to re-enact the give and take of one side having the advantage and then the other... well that's fine... just not conducive to good fights.
Anyhow... It is fine since I can pick and choose when I want to fly the CT.. If you find my opinions contrary to your own or you feel that they are simply wrong... fine... ignore em. Perhaps the fights and the numbers are just as you would like them to be and I am merely trying to solve a nonexistent problem.
I do realize that the core of CT players has very different opinions on what is fun than those in the MA... I admit that I am at a loss in understanding what is fun about some of the setups. I am serious here... I simply don't understand. Compounding my missunderstanding is the fact that in the setups I have seen with parity the fights are endless and well attended and the ones (like the current one) that aren't are not so much so.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I do realize that the core of CT players has very different opinions on what is fun than those in the MA... I admit that I am at a loss in understanding what is fun about some of the setups. I am serious here... I simply don't understand. Compounding my missunderstanding is the fact that in the setups I have seen with parity the fights are endless and well attended and the ones (like the current one) that aren't are not so much so.
lazs
Perusing this thread, it seems like the chief complaint this week has been about ganging. I've noticed it myself, even when I managed to fly Allied one night. Generally, I think most of us agree that it isn't much fun to be ganged, even if it is just like The Real War (observation: probably the real war wasn't much fun when you were being ganged, either).
I actually think the ganging is fairly innocent in its inspiration. I think it flows directly from having squads in a relatively low-numbers arena. If I were in a squad, I'd want to fly around with my other squad buddies, and help them if they got into trouble, and that would often result in ganging (what, you're supposed to pull off to the side and watch your squad-mate get killed?). I don't know how this plays out in the MA, because I never fly there, but in the CT, when you may only have 20 guys on each side, the two or three who meet up with a squad are going to get overwhelmed.
On balance, I can put up with it, I suppose, because we usually benefit from having more people in the arena. Some of us can remember back a year when it was not unusual to have a total of six or eight people (total) in the CT. I'll put up with the ganging, but I wonder if it wouldn't be possible for the squads to fly in flight strength, rather than squad strength.
- oldman (PS to Lazs: You may simply not enjoy historical match-ups, which is fine. I've always thought that P-51s fighting against P-51s was surreal, and detracted from the enjoyment. Plainly there are more of you than there are of me.)
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Originally posted by lazs2
shane... read what I write before you respond.
I never said anything about your flying with or against the numbers... allied or axis ... who cares? what I did say was that I was not surprised that you advocated having a plane in an otherwise even set that was much faster and accelerated and climbed better. You seem to have a real fondness for such behavior.
lazs
ding ding ding! go to the back of the clue line. i advocated having a plane that was historically present in significant numbers. it has nothing to do with the speed or climbrate of said plane. actually the fw190a5 *should* probably be added as well, since there were numbers of fw190a4's present, as well as some of the A5's.
quite clearly in your dabblings (and latest post in the CT) on a very infrequent basis, you have very little grasp of how the arena, the setups and the playerbase function.
might i suggest you fly in the TA, you'll find all the action you need right at the base you up from.
enjoy your pizza... oh it should be gone soon, so we have at least another week or two before we have to listen to your blatherings in here again.
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:rolleyes: another uselss thread.
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Not totally useless Hawk, I have chuckled quite a few times reading it!!
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I chuckled quite a bit too, but i was just wondering who it was that started this "useless thread" ? :p
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hehehe I find it funny that about 37 of the replys are worthless. This is what I get out of thiese replys:
I like flying the Spit against the Bf-109 cause the idiots that slow down in the 109s get killed.
I like flying the 109G-2 cause I can kill the idiots that are flying the Spit V in a turn fight agaisnt the idiots that slowed down in a 109 to turn fight a spit V.
I like flying the Bf-109g cause I can fly at high alt abouve a better than any other allied aircraft so I can dive down on the lower idiots.
Well, I'm the idiot that keeps flying the porkrd P-40E at 20k trying to get above the idiots flying the 100mph faster Bf-109G-2 so I can get him slow.....ah hell, nevermind!!!! :o
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another uselss thread
yep
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oldman... yeah I guess i don't get it.. I found myself really wanting to up an FM2 during the russ setup so that I could fight all those other Fm2's... now that would have been fun! don't get to fight em very often but.. I had to settle for fighting em and seeing how others flew em. I don't care about the "historical" aspect... I read the book... I know how it came out and why... I also don't get "immersed" in history when flying any flight sim... there is absolutely nothing historical about how people fly in either arena. Yeah... everyone knows the two 109 moves and how they will reactg every time against spit 5's about 2 sorties of knowing ahead of time what my next fight will be is not a lot of fun for me.
but.. when people come to the general discussion board and plead for players here they don't say... come for historical immersion... they say "plenty of good fights".. I am talking about that aspect... the good fights are all I'm intersested in.
shane... give it up... I have "fought" you in the MA. all is as I have observed. you want the fastest plane so that you can hit and run... nothing wrong with that if you are like that but...
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
clueless tard-speak
lol. how little you know, yet think you know more than others.
arp! arp! the seal arpeth!!
TA is ------>
you'll have fun there. it suits you.
<----- Quake servers... this might be more fitting, tho'
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you sound like a little boy whistling in the dark to prove he isn't afraid shane... or more like the little boy who runs away after being scolded by an adult and then when he is a block away screams "f**k you!".. come to think of it... that pretty much describes your channel 1 behavior.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
you sound like a little boy whistling in the dark to prove he isn't afraid shane... or more like the little boy who runs away after being scolded by an adult and then when he is a block away screams "f**k you!".. come to think of it... that pretty much describes your channel 1 behavior.
lazs
lol. whatta tool.
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Pretty bang on actually.
bowser