Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: wipass on March 24, 2003, 04:41:45 AM
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In the last week or so I have been accused numerous times of warping.
I had checked with ping plotter and the inbuilt net indicator and all seemed fine.
However ........ My 14 year old Daughter has started using the internet for research/chat etc, as a safety measure my wife and I installed some basic "snooper" software (we told our daughter of course, but better safe than sorry).
It appears that this software takes a screen shot every couple of minutes, I think that this may be the cause of my warps. I have now changed the settings and hopefully I wont warp anymore.
Sorry
wipass
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Lol, I suspect there will be many inquires asking for the name of this software.
Doh!
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Talk about 'big parents'
Lol.
Do you monitor her toilet activities too? :D
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I know it seems harsh and underhand, this was not a decision taken lightly by either of us, she knows about it and she is aware what it does and why it is there. We haven't found it necessary to look at anything yet as I think that just the knowledge of its existence is enough.
Whilst a 14 year old girl may look like a young woman, they sometimes have to be protected from them selves. With instances of Child pornography, abduction, perverts and adults posing as children in chat rooms, I am not taking any chances at all and make no apologies.
wipass
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yea..and RaUmL is out there surfing too:D
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Maybe your daughter would be interested in some screenshots of the text radio buffer on AH!
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Kim IL Wipass's Police State.....
:p
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Originally posted by wipass
I know it seems harsh and underhand, this was not a decision taken lightly by either of us, she knows about it and she is aware what it does and why it is there. We haven't found it necessary to look at anything yet as I think that just the knowledge of its existence is enough.
Whilst a 14 year old girl may look like a young woman, they sometimes have to be protected from them selves. With instances of Child pornography, abduction, perverts and adults posing as children in chat rooms, I am not taking any chances at all and make no apologies.
wipass
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Being a dean at a high school and currently having issues with internet crap that carries over into school, I wish more parents would use a tool such as this. You can't believe the number of parents that have no idea what their kids are doing on the internet.
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No need to explain yourself wipass, any parent should understand. I love it when my kids try and tell me they have "rights" lol. Yep.. they have the right to whine. The right to deal with it. The right to move the hell out etc etc lol.
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Lock them in their room until they're 22, I say.
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I'm a parent.. But I'm not going to deny my child access to anything that's out there..
Simply because the world is what it is, and trying to hide the fact won't make it any different. In fact it may make him naive and unprepared for the reality.
I will however talk about the subject with him when he grows a bit older to understand, and try to explain the way things work. I know wipass has good intentions and he clearly loves his child a hell lot.. But he has a very different approach to mine obviously. I'm going to informy my kid about everything possible, not leave him in the dark.
If he's like I was when I was young, he can handle the information and make his own logical conclusions about the world.
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The only "denied access" or "keeping in the dark" was actually in your own post.
I'd suggest you re-read what wipass is doing for full understanding.
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I'm a parent.. But I'm not going to deny my child access to anything that's out there..
he has a very different approach to mine obviously. I'm going to informy my kid about everything possible, not leave him in the dark.
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Kanth by inserting a surveillance software he effectively denied his child any access to content he/she considers private.
So yes, he told her "You better not browse any nasty sites OR.."
"You better not type anything bad to a chat OR.."
"You better not take my creditcard and order crack online OR.." :)
You get the picture.
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WTG wipass, the internet has its own cesspool. You are doing well knowing the who what where and whens of a child's surfing.
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im a kid and i love the idea of snooper software...(of topic of course)
you should have thought about the fact your snooper software and your warps coincided earlier though
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Does this mean I can warp at will by pressing alt-s?
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Being denied privacy and being denied access are two seperate things entirely.
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Kanth by inserting a surveillance software he effectively denied his child any access to content he/she considers private.
So yes, he told her "You better not browse any nasty sites OR.."
"You better not type anything bad to a chat OR.."
"You better not take my creditcard and order crack online OR.." :)
You get the picture.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I'm a parent.. But I'm not going to deny my child access to anything that's out there..
Simply because the world is what it is, and trying to hide the fact won't make it any different. In fact it may make him naive and unprepared for the reality.
I will however talk about the subject with him when he grows a bit older to understand, and try to explain the way things work. I know wipass has good intentions and he clearly loves his child a hell lot.. But he has a very different approach to mine obviously. I'm going to informy my kid about everything possible, not leave him in the dark.
If he's like I was when I was young, he can handle the information and make his own logical conclusions about the world.
Sounds a lot like my dad.
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Originally posted by ccvi
Does this mean I can warp at will by pressing alt-s?
Lol, I hear it costs perks though ;)
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Simply because the world is what it is, and trying to hide the fact won't make it any different. In fact it may make him naive and unprepared for the reality.
...I'm going to informy my kid about everything possible, not leave him in the dark.
...If he's like I was when I was young, he can handle the information and make his own logical conclusions about the world. [/B]
I found my 11 year old daughter checking her webmail account one day...I came into the room and found her sitting in front of the computer, looking guilty, monitor off, computer on.
I asked her what was on the screen... "Nothing"...
I turned it on, and it was the front page of a porn site...
I asked her what it was...
Angrily, she told me..."They sent me this email that said (xyz)...but all they want is my MONEY! Besides, these girls are so *UGLY*!"
*ROFL*
The way I see it?
I did well.
I have a child that:
Can see a sales pitch from 5 miles.
Is not offended or embarrased by nudity and sexuality.
Yep, she's prepared to be a teenager...
I feel sorry for the kids she'll date...they'll have no idea what hit them.
:)
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I'm a parent.. But I'm not going to deny my child access to anything that's out there..
Simply because the world is what it is, and trying to hide the fact won't make it any different. In fact it may make him naive and unprepared for the reality.
I will however talk about the subject with him when he grows a bit older to understand, and try to explain the way things work. I know wipass has good intentions and he clearly loves his child a hell lot.. But he has a very different approach to mine obviously. I'm going to informy my kid about everything possible, not leave him in the dark.
If he's like I was when I was young, he can handle the information and make his own logical conclusions about the world.
As a father of 5 (2 daughters) and a grandfather to 2, I have also used similar software when my daughters started to become internet savvy. I needed to make sure that they were not getting prayed upon in my absence and I didn't want to have to be looking over their shoulder all the time. They had accounts on AOL so I also blocked them from AOL chat-rooms, but I left AOL IM available to them.
Siaf__csf
Explanation of any subject with any child will only be fruitful if the child has the capacity to understand what it is your talking about, and secondly, do you really want to get into a in-depth discussion with a 10 yr old girl about cyber-sex, internet pediphiles, rape, etc. Not me ... I waited until I felt they had the capacity to understand these subjects and at the same time, not scare or confuse the daylights out of them. I turned my software off when the youngest turned 16.
The computer in my house is not a "right", but a "privilege", that myself and my wife have complete autonomous control over. The right to privacy on my computer is lost the second your fingers touch the keyboard.
You want to use my computer, then there is a price to pay. You don't like it ... get your own house, your own computer, and your own DSL line.
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Where is it implied anywhere in this thread that he leaves his kid in the dark? No ... this is protection. In a world where's there's easy access to all sorts of stuff that you are *supposed* to protect them from ... maybe you need to consider one very important thing. Maturity. Education does not supplant it.
Now .... Wipass explained that he thinks he found a possible source of warpage in the game caused by a proggie on his machine. He went so far as to explain the nature of the proggie. You've had your cow. And the cow said mooo. You really don't want to hear what I think of your "let the child run free and someday explain things to it - hopefully before it's not too late" philosophy.
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I'm a parent.. But I'm not going to deny my child access to anything that's out there..
Simply because the world is what it is, and trying to hide the fact won't make it any different. In fact it may make him naive and unprepared for the reality.
I will however talk about the subject with him when he grows a bit older to understand, and try to explain the way things work. I know wipass has good intentions and he clearly loves his child a hell lot.. But he has a very different approach to mine obviously. I'm going to informy my kid about everything possible, not leave him in the dark.
If he's like I was when I was young, he can handle the information and make his own logical conclusions about the world.
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I Didn't expect many replies, and certainly not concerning the software.
Anyway, I am not denying my child any access to the internet at all, She is 14, she knows about sex (in a 14 year old way) and she knows about the existence of pornography, she can surf the web to her hearts content, she can talk to her pals online and send and receive emails. She decides where the boundaries are by thinking "would Dad agree with what I am doing".
She is as street wise as a 14 year old can be, she reads daily newspapers and takes an active interest in the world around her, she is completely aware of the existence of perverts and sexual deviants. However, as arlo so eloquently put it
"Maturity. Education does not supplant it"
Siaf__csf I am assuming that your Child is quite young, as they change over time so do we,
wipass
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I think wipass found a good comprise between freedom and education. There are loonies out there... harmless ones like us who get excited about WWII aviation, and harmful ones who get off on chatting with curious 14 year olds who love a bit of attention.
I also saw examples of loonies who combine those two but I won't mention any names :-D
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maturity is just a result of many different experiences.
internet porn is just one of those experiences, therefore good for maturity.
also, it can be very educational (anatomy etc.)
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Yeah Wipass he's only 2 but already plays Disney online :)
"Explanation of any subject with any child will only be fruitful if the child has the capacity to understand what it is your talking about, and secondly, do you really want to get into a in-depth discussion with a 10 yr old girl about cyber-sex, internet pediphiles, rape, etc. Not me ... I waited until I felt they had the capacity to understand these subjects and at the same time, not scare or confuse the daylights out of them. I turned my software off when the youngest turned 16."
My approach to that problem is that when the kid is too young to understand the real explanation, it's suffice to say to him/her that there are sick people out there and they should take care when talking to strangers, especially on the net. Then later on when the 'why' question comes out, further explanation takes place if necessary.
I won't try to protect my kid by eavesdropping his activities. I value privacy highly and I'm going to grant my kid just that. If he has active interest in something, he's old enough to handle it.
Naturally I'm not going to let him see horror movies on tv etc. when he's clearly too young and will be scared.. But the day he wants to see a horror flick himself, I'll offer to see it together.
I know that if I ban it, he'll rent one and watch it with friends anyway - without my support. Just like I did when I was a kid :)
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Sounds like you're doing a good job raising your kids wipass. Keep on truckin'... As for some others here, you are the problem with society today. Flame away but I won't throw pearls before swine. IE: I will not waste my time replying to why I say that as you most assuredly could not comprehend the answer... but I digress.
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Crumb-crunchers HAVE no rights, unless of course ya include the right NOT to get flogged fer not doin homework/chores. But seriously, ya can protect your kid from the harsher parts of the world without making them live in a sealed-off shell. THAT is a parent's job. When they turn 18 and get out of house (unLESS you are paying for their college) let em make all the stupid g'damn decisions they want. THEN you can say, with conviction.."WE TOLD YA SO!"
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wipass <<
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Both for care and love your exibiting for your family and your taking a moment to post an explanation here. Anyone who questions your actions regarding your daughters well being is sadly misinformed. About 12 years ago I ended up putting my step daughter (14 also at the time) under "house arrest" for a couple weeks because I was really concerned about a particular "friend" she was seeing...I got all kinds of grief from well meaning friends and nieghbors...right until this kid took a nieghbors daughter over a cliff with him one night a month or so later...I'm getting ready to go to her masters graduation instead of visiting a head stone...and trust me she's no "model child" She was still wild and moved out at 17...but I delayed stuff til she was a bit better able to handle her often bad choices....and she's the 1st to thank me for being a "hard ass" way back when. You can't chose the road they travel ...but you can put up a few roadblocks if you need to:).
All the Best
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I hope you're not a parent or a guardian of a minor. Your logic is so flawed here, it's scary.
If you truly think that allowing ... or encouraging your children to experience the adult world in the worst possible way will lead to maturity and education and is a good thing, then you need serious help.
If you're a minor and this is the message you got from your parents ... then they need serious help too.
Originally posted by ccvi
maturity is just a result of many different experiences.
internet porn is just one of those experiences, therefore good for maturity.
also, it can be very educational (anatomy etc.)
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If sex wouldn't be such a taboo in our society, there wouldn't be all these crazy teenage pregnancies and VD spreading among the kids.
The kids mature up fast, and when the hormones start to rage it's way better for them to know about sex than to figure everything out themselves (the hard way.)
I studied human reproduction and sex for a long time before I actually had some (ok insert the wise crack jokes here.. ;) )
I wouldn't have it any other way. What's worse than a kid having unprotected sex and getting HIV before turning 15 just because he/she never even saw another person naked let alone discuss about sex. Or be too ashamed to go and buy profalectics..
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
If sex wouldn't be such a taboo in our society, there wouldn't be all these crazy teenage pregnancies and VD spreading among the kids.
The kids mature up fast, and when the hormones start to rage it's way better for them to know about sex than to figure everything out themselves (the hard way.)
I studied human reproduction and sex for a long time before I actually had some (ok insert the wise crack jokes here.. ;) )
I wouldn't have it any other way. What's worse than a kid having unprotected sex and getting HIV before turning 15 just because he/she never even saw another person naked let alone discuss about sex. Or be too ashamed to go and buy profalectics..
The topic of sex was taboo back when I was a kid and for many many years before that, so how come teenage pregnancy and STDs were not a rampant problem then ?
Don't even begin to blame it on it being "taboo". Parents like mine and their parents sheltered us (the best they could) from all the "stuff" that you feel is "OK" to let them know about and experience. Its this line of thought, IMHO, that has brought about these rampant problems.
You could teach a 10 year old to drive a car, but that doesn't mean that they should know how to drive a car, and should be allowed to drive a car. Teaching and letting kids experience things at too young of an age can have real detrimental outcomes.
What in the hell does nudity have to do with filling your kids in on the pitfalls of having unprotected sex. Well son/daughter ... were gonna have a discussion on STDs tomorrow, so here is a porn magazine ... it will all make sense tomorrow. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Kanth by inserting a surveillance software he effectively denied his child any access to content he/she considers private.
So yes, he told her "You better not browse any nasty sites OR.."
"You better not type anything bad to a chat OR.."
"You better not take my creditcard and order crack online OR.." :)
You get the picture.
Give it a break. This might all be valid, in an adult v adult or government v citizen context, but that's not what's being discussed.
A parent who doesn't monitor his/her children in order to guide them while growing and learning about the adult world, and also in order to protect them from the dangers of that world, is an irresponsible parent indeed.
Nothing wipass said indicates he's restricting his daughter from any sort of information, merely that he's staying informed as to what she's seeing. He never said he threatened her with amy consequences regarding her internet usage. He just mentioned a concern for her safety.
I think you're seeing 2 + 2 here and making an arithmetic mistake by getting 5 as a result.
culero (DAMN sure keeps an eye on what his grandson sees on the net)
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Originally posted by wipass
Siaf__csf I am assuming that your Child is quite young, as they change over time so do we,
wipass
Your so right wipass. As a parent of 3 beautiful daughters 19,20,and 22 yrs old. Siaf__csf is in for a rude awakening.
Sometimes talking to them go in one ear and out the other. As a parent it's your duty to protect them from themselves. Not to mention the deviants.
Let them enjoy there childhood for as long as they can. Once innocents lost it is never regained.
This doesn't mean you don't make them aware of the dangers.
Totally agree with culero also... Except for his cpid. :eek:
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I won't try to protect my kid by eavesdropping his activities. I value privacy highly and I'm going to grant my kid just that. If he has active interest in something, he's old enough to handle it.
SLAPS Siaf__csf ... Wake up man you've got some serious parenting to do.
Siaf__csf child in 4th grade talking to a classmate:
Naw! my dads cool he just lets me do what i want. [Siaf__csf child passes joint to classmate as he gets stoned] Classmate: Wish my dad was that way, but i can't my dad would kill me if i do. Got to go. see-ya. Third classmate: reaches for the roach and says he's a dweeb give me some. [Third classmates parents are divorced and dad is not at home to look out for his kid as well as he would like to.]
Siaf__csf Wakes up from this awful dream... Son what the hell!!! are you doing on that PORN site.... I thought you were playing Disney...
Divorced parents please don't take offence.
The above is just a hypothetical situation not to cause undue stress to those that are divorced.
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What is your callsign in the game? Same as on the BBS?
Thanks for telling about it though, don't agree with your way of "protecting" children, but that's another story.
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Jeesuz... it's no bodies business what wipass does to protect his 14 yr old daughter or what filters he places on his own computers for whatever purpose.
You ignorant opinionated busy body people need to get your noses out of other people's business and just shut up.
Wipass, appology not accepted! No appology or excuses was ever needed.
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Geez. The 1960's really screwed our thinking. I'm with you SlapShot.
Tara52nd
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NM
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Jeesuz... it's no bodies business what wipass does to protect his 14 yr old daughter or what filters he places on his own computers for whatever purpose.
You ignorant opinionated busy body people need to get your noses out of other people's business and just shut up.
Wipass, appology not accepted! No appology or excuses was ever needed.
DmdNexus... he's the one that brought it up - not us. :rolleyes:
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I for one commend wipass. and would like to know what program he is using. See in my castle, I am the King, a solemn dictator,my son has access to the internet in his own room as long as he uses it ith the understanding that i have access to review any place he has gone and anything he has seen. If a 45 year old man comes in to my house and poses as a thirteen year old girl it is obvious as it is seen with your own eyes,and i will not permit this, on the internet that man can do the same without exposing himself as a pervert,however some ofthere statements and comments can give themselves away , when caught,I willnot permit this (and yes i have seen this before in a chatroom) my son is no longer permitted in chatrooms, he is not naive by no means, but i have my rules in my house and those who do not follow those rules can expect to lose priveledges, those who are not from my house but are visiting whether be in person or via the internet, if they do not follow my rules , can expect to be removed from my house, some by force if neccessary.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Talk about 'big parents'
Lol.
Do you monitor her toilet activities too? :D
How old are you Siaf? 12-14 would be my guess.
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wipass <
>
Allowing a child to run through life all willy nilly with no supervision and guidance is a recipe for disaster. Kids might be more educated nowadays, but the common sense factor remains the same as it always was.
Parents have a responsibility to protect their kids from their inherent lack of wisdom. Wisdom comes with age and experience, and without guidance, a child has nothing to tap into when faced with a potentially dangerous situation that could arise in their future.
Keep it up wipass. Glad you care enough to make certain things your business.
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AkIron I'm father of 2, you have to check your biology facts.
But I already knew you weren't the brightest bulb in the park. :D
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Griego unlike your corrupt and censored society, we don't have a rampant drug problem here. Kids get a lot of information about drugs at school and they see the negative effects the use has.
No, they do NOT swipe everything under the carpet and censor everything drug related.. As with violence kids get lessons of the real effects of violence. They see busted faces, broken teeth, swollen lips and cheeks - resulting from a single punch. That's much much more effective way to make them think as opposed to censoring all violence in tv or movies. The violence is there anyway, it just won't go away by censorship.
Drug knowledge enables them to figure out themselves if they really want a life of a junkie or not. Same goes with teenage pregnancies etc. If the kids have knowledge they can act more responsively. If they don't know even what a condom is when they lose thier virginity, an unwanted pregnancy is very much possible. You're damaging your kid if you keep him/her in the dark and let the kid learn everything the hard way, by experience.
Teenage pregnancies weren't such a problem earlier because the society was much tighter. Young kids didn't go out like they do today and they also developed at a much later age, kids get sexually active much much earlier these days.
If my kid(s) gets in an age that he gets interested in porn sites, I won't stop him from going there. What's the point? They will find a way regardless of my attempts whether I like it or not. Naturally untill they're too young to understand I'm going to keep the stuff out of thier eyes.
But I'm not going to limit the natural curiosity kids have and certainly I'm not going to INVADE the kids PRIVACY by spying on them. This is my beef with wipass.
How can the kid send personal e-mail etc. if the parents have full access to anything the kid does on the pc?
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
yea..and RaUmL is out there surfing too:D
Amen Little Brutha....lmao.
And to Wipass.
Only the people without Daughters will see your VERY appropriate Monitoring actions as "harsh". the internet can be a very confusing, tempting place, and anything u can do to keep them on the "Straight and narrow" is a step in the right direction.
Fatty
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siaf ..i dont think you get the fact that it not about invasion of the childs privacy ,it's about protecting your child from the creeps etc on the net. as far as the email goes no problem as long as i know who its to or from i wont read it if i dont know who its from i will.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
AkIron I'm father of 2, you have to check your biology facts.
But I already knew you weren't the brightest bulb in the park. :D
Sounds like you are new at this then, maybe you ought to stick to raising your own before criticizing how others raise theirs? Just a suggestion as no one here really gives a rats bellybutton what you think anyhow.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Griego unlike your corrupt and censored society, we don't have a rampant drug problem here. Kids get a lot of information about drugs at school and they see the negative effects the use has.
No, they do NOT swipe everything under the carpet and censor everything drug related.. As with violence kids get lessons of the real effects of violence. They see busted faces, broken teeth, swollen lips and cheeks - resulting from a single punch. That's much much more effective way to make them think as opposed to censoring all violence in tv or movies. The violence is there anyway, it just won't go away by censorship.
Drug knowledge enables them to figure out themselves if they really want a life of a junkie or not. Same goes with teenage pregnancies etc. If the kids have knowledge they can act more responsively. If they don't know even what a condom is when they lose thier virginity, an unwanted pregnancy is very much possible. You're damaging your kid if you keep him/her in the dark and let the kid learn everything the hard way, by experience.
Teenage pregnancies weren't such a problem earlier because the society was much tighter. Young kids didn't go out like they do today and they also developed at a much later age, kids get sexually active much much earlier these days.
If my kid(s) gets in an age that he gets interested in porn sites, I won't stop him from going there. What's the point? They will find a way regardless of my attempts whether I like it or not. Naturally untill they're too young to understand I'm going to keep the stuff out of thier eyes.
But I'm not going to limit the natural curiosity kids have and certainly I'm not going to INVADE the kids PRIVACY by spying on them. This is my beef with wipass.
How can the kid send personal e-mail etc. if the parents have full access to anything the kid does on the pc?
That is the most ridiculous thing ive ever read on this BB. Its is this obvious LACK OF PARENTING SKILLS that have caused the problems we face today- And i am not talking about teenage pregnancy. thats been around for years. im talking abot guns in school, children beating other children to death, and the general Bad attitude of kids these days.
And as far as calling our country corrupt and censored:
no one in this country gives a rats bellybutton about illiterate views from people in other poverty stricken countries. You are on something called the "internet" on your "PC" both brought to u by americans.
At least our women shave their armpits.
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biggest problem our country has with yooots is the inCREDible number of boys raised by single mothers..I spend lotta time working on stuff in prisons....and those folks DONT come from Ward and June Cleaver-type homes. Women are ill-equipped..by and large...to show a boy how to grow up to be a man
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I hate to break it to you Fatty but US is one of the worst countries as far as illiteracy goes.
Every single scandinavian 'socialist' country wipes bellybutton with american students with ease in all major subjects of education. In most scandinavian countries literacy rate is near 100% which is clearly not the situation up there. This BB is a perfect example of that with 50% of the posters being 'dyslexic.'
It's just a lame excuse for not knowing how to spell the very language you speak. [edit] Not meant to offend the ones that really are genuinely dislexic. [edit]
Hmm.. or maybe there's a genetic defect in americans and 50% of the people are indeed dyslexic.
You may feel high and mighty about your stuff, but you're standing on a hollow ground there buddy.
Your country is to my knowledge the only country on this planet that has a problem with student violence in schools up to an extent of actually students arming themselves when at school.
You're right about that, however, that the lack of parenting skills have lead YOU in the situation you're in at the moment. Your way to react to the problem seems to be that you prefer to censor the things that you think are wrong in the society.
That approach is doomed to fail because the reality is out there and this way your kids will have to face it unprepared. If you restrict your kid too much, the kid will rebel against your rules.. That rebellion can lead to exaggerated responses on both sides. I remember still the stories of an American friend of mine, the way the local kids gathered together with cars, obtained alcohol illegally and then started boozing at an empty forest strip outside the city.. All because the local cops would bust in a party at a private house immediately.
There in the forest people got extremely drunk, people smoked pot and every other bush was 'occupied' with the activity that leads to teenage pregnancies. Alcohol, dark forest, pot and other drugs, bunch of teenagers with NO supervision and the excitement of watching out for cops.. That's a brewing pot for teenage trouble.
That opposed to the european way where youngsters are allowed to consume alcohol at home as a normal practise (with parents) and have home parties without police intervention (unless they get TOO wild..) Because they're used to consume alcohol, it's very rare to see kids trying to get drunk - it's nothing special for them.
I think the euro approach is way safer for the kids.
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raising crumb-crunchers went REAL well in the US for about...190 years---THEN a buncha folks whose opinions are revered as gospel said that there is a BETTER way....now prolly half the kids born in this country are to unwed teenage mothers who havent finished high school---most these kids couldn't tell ya where Austrailia is on a blank map of the globe..but they know every work to the latest Eminen song---lack of floggings.
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Move the thread south a few notches. :D
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In my opinnion, the problem these days is that kids have no respect for authorities..
If you think about major differences in upbringing now and 50 years ago, it's use of physical force.
Kids were brought up in a very strict manner, and the fathers palm taught the kids to respect the parents straight from the cradle. Standing against the parent just wasn't an option.
The generations of those times generally respected authorities and acted accordingly. Naturally even then there was crime.
Nowadays child psychologists rant about the damaging effect a healthy slap has on the child. How the child must be taught by means of grounding, not letting to eat or other mental suppression.
A child's nature is to seek its limits.. If the parent doesn't set the limits the child is not happy. The non-violent approach leads inevitably to the situation where the child realizes he/she can do whatever he wants with no real limitation from the parents. Groundings and other mental punishments do nothing but annoy the kid. This often leads to total disrespect of the parent.
Don't get confused if I'm talking about limitations now, it doesn't contradict with the things I've said above.. I believe that when a child is at a certain age, he must have very clear limitations on what he can do and what not. Just in order to live a normal child's life. That includes following the requests of the parents.
But when the child develops and starts to have its natural curiosity, that's the time I'm not going to interfere. I was an extremely curious child and I knew about all kinds of things before I even started school. I knew about sex, how babies are done. I knew about contraceptives and that there are dangers out there, diseases being one example. I learned to write at an age of 4 years so I was fully literate when I started school.
I lived in a bilingual family so I had a basic knowledge in english language, too, before the lessons started at school.
My favourite hobby was reading through the encyclopedia of my parents. I spent hours per day browsing it and gobbing interesting information from it. Naturally as I developed, especially the parts with human biology interested me. Yes I saw the reproductive organs as well as the internal ones at the age of 7 - it didn't corrupt me.
I can only wish my children will have the same kind of thirst for knowledge and I'm going to do my best to support that. If theyr'e anything like me they're also going to demand strict privacy - something I always had to fight about with my parents. They never even did anything outrageous like put spy programs to my computer (well back in those days I had no access to internet anyway, there was none. :) ) or read my letters etc.
Wipass's girl is already 14 and at a prime sexual age.. Chances are that she's already doing all kinds of nasty stuff with her boyfriend. Then when she gets knocked up its too late to start teaching her about safe sex and contraceptives.
I was continuously amazed how ignorant other kids of my age were as I grew up - even in my country where no special means are taken to try to 'protect' young people from this. At the age of 15 we had a special discussion forum with a priest where sex could be discussed among other things.. And the lack of knowledge on the kids was just unbelievable. In my group there were girls who were questioning if they could get pregnant by kissing. Then in the same group there was a girl who already had had an abortion - I bet she knew how she got pregnant.
When I was 14 my parent's trusted me like an adult and I could make my own decisions. It would have freaked me out totally if I learned that my parents would actually demand to see my post exchange etc. at thier will.
Maybe this will bring some perspective to what I'm saying.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I hate to break it to you Fatty but US is one of the worst countries as far as illiteracy goes.
Every single scandinavian 'socialist' country wipes bellybutton with american students with ease in all major subjects of education. In most scandinavian countries literacy rate is near 100% which is clearly not the situation up there. This BB is a perfect example of that with 50% of the posters being 'dyslexic.'
It's just a lame excuse for not knowing how to spell the very language you speak. [edit] Not meant to offend the ones that really are genuinely dislexic. [edit]
Hmm.. or maybe there's a genetic defect in americans and 50% of the people are indeed dyslexic.
You may feel high and mighty about your stuff, but you're standing on a hollow ground there buddy.
Your country is to my knowledge the only country on this planet that has a problem with student violence in schools up to an extent of actually students arming themselves when at school.
You're right about that, however, that the lack of parenting skills have lead YOU in the situation you're in at the moment. Your way to react to the problem seems to be that you prefer to censor the things that you think are wrong in the society.
That approach is doomed to fail because the reality is out there and this way your kids will have to face it unprepared. If you restrict your kid too much, the kid will rebel against your rules.. That rebellion can lead to exaggerated responses on both sides. I remember still the stories of an American friend of mine, the way the local kids gathered together with cars, obtained alcohol illegally and then started boozing at an empty forest strip outside the city.. All because the local cops would bust in a party at a private house immediately.
There in the forest people got extremely drunk, people smoked pot and every other bush was 'occupied' with the activity that leads to teenage pregnancies. Alcohol, dark forest, pot and other drugs, bunch of teenagers with NO supervision and the excitement of watching out for cops.. That's a brewing pot for teenage trouble.
That opposed to the european way where youngsters are allowed to consume alcohol at home as a normal practise (with parents) and have home parties without police intervention (unless they get TOO wild..) Because they're used to consume alcohol, it's very rare to see kids trying to get drunk - it's nothing special for them.
I think the euro approach is way safer for the kids.
Again More senseless drivel from the "Scandinavian." If you dont like america, Dont come here. We dont want or need your kind.
Talk about high and mighty... Who cares what your national literacy rate is. WTF has "Scandinavia" ever done for anyone? have they EVER contributed ANYTHING worthwhile on this planet to ANYONE?? (Besides the ugliest people on the planet)
such as the automobile? electricity? The AIRPLANE???...the list goes on.
Funny. all these other countries that badmouth us have been here for Thousands of years. Took america a little over 200 to raise the technological standard of the planet about 10,000,000%. You would still be ****ting in an outhouse and riding cows if us "illiterate bastards" hadnt came along.
Not to mention what would have happened in WW2 without us "corrupt, and censored" people.
While we Keep on Rescuing Pathetic countries like yours from ignorant eurotrash such as hitler, you unwashed animals keep bad mouthing america. go ahead...
I lump you right in with the stinking french.
And as far as you "Wiping your tulips with us, What a joke.
I didnt even think "3rd world idiots" even had the technology to do so. Good for you.
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I know truth hurts Fatty.
By corruption I meant the state of your society with drug related crime being a huge issue up there. I don't expect your government as such is corrupt.
You just can't face any criticism.. And you obviously didn't even understand half of the post. But that's ok. I didn't expect it.
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Big difference between encyclopedias or sex education textbooks and surfing the net for porn sites.
And your "well she's probably already doing all sorts of dirty things with her boyfriend already" argument is .... to put it bluntly ... lame as hell. Falls right in there with your opinion that the best way minors can decide whether to use dangerous and addictive drugs is to let them give it a try.
I am not only the legal guardian[/b] of my children but the moral one. It's a responsibility I take seriously. A responsibility! I am responsible ... for their safety ... for their welfare. It is my responsibility[/b] to protect[/size] my children from the dangers present in the world ... as well as providing guidance and a safe education. It is my responsibility to raise my kids.
Sorry, Siaf ... it takes work to do it. It takes more than just sitting around waiting to answer questions that may never be asked (or may be asked too late). It takes standing between them and the danger. It's your job. It's your responibility. And if you fail in it ... there is no excuse.
I hope, when you answer (if you do) and argue how oppressive it is to protect your child in that manner ... to intercede between them and the evil of the world ... that somewhere deep inside you it at least planted a seed of doubt.
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
My favourite hobby was reading through the encyclopedia of my parents. I spent hours per day browsing it and gobbing interesting information from it. Naturally as I developed, especially the parts with human biology interested me. Yes I saw the reproductive organs as well as the internal ones at the age of 7 - it didn't corrupt me.
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Arlo the encyclopedia wasn't the only source for me if that's what you think. I had many opportunities to access pornographic material before teenage.. That stuff didn't interest me untill the hormones kicked in and after that it's just normal.
Despite of all the 'horrible' filth I was exposed to, I grew up to be a responsible teenager. I knew exactly of the dangers related to sex and I never even imagined of having unprotected sex with anyone (except now that I'm married obviously.)
My parent's told me openly everything, and I'm grateful for them. The knowledge kept me out of many troubles.
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Fatty: You were quite right, scandinavians haven't played any role in technological innovations and continue not doing so. :rolleyes:
However things like automobile, electricity, nuclear power nor aeroplane were _not_ invented in US. I don't really know why you brought them up.. Maybe you were in a false impression of the opposite.
You might check this website however:
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inventors/scan.shtml
That should give you some idea. Just a scratch.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
However things like automobile, electricity, nuclear power nor aeroplane were _not_ invented in US. I don't really know why you brought them up.. Maybe you were in a false impression of the opposite.
You might check this website however:
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inventors/scan.shtml
That should give you some idea. Just a scratch.
I dont need to go to yer little weblink there, bud. . I know who Orville and Wilbur wright were. They invented the airplane and were the first humans to fly. If you dont know that you are sadly misinformed, and that is a testament to just how much you know..... Kitty Hawk. Look it up. It's in the IN U.S.
-As far as nuclear power goes. I Never mentioned it, But I'm sure it wasnt a "Scandinavian" that invented it, nor do i care.
And as far as why did i bring it up? Because I am sick of people jumping on the Bandwagon to point out U.S. Faults, when their sad little countries that have never done anything to contribute anything (technological or otherwise) take handouts given to them, But dont appreciate them, while they continue to achieve such technological marvels such as "Herding goats".
:rolleyes:
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Just for kicks i checked your link you posted..and Gosh Im awfully sorry..
... maybe they did invent something worthwhile... After all, What would the world be without the "Spray can" or the "Zipper" :rolleyes:
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I'm sorry to break it to you but Leonardo Da Vinci was the real inventor of helicopter and aeroplane, Wright merely was the first one to actually build one.
You're forgetting that without european technology your country would still be populated with native americans and maybe some scandinavians, who actually set foot on america centuries before Americano Vespucci.
This is not a 'bash' thread, I just have to correct your attitude a bit. You come out like Al Gore inventing the internet. :)
More information is never bad.. That's why it's a shame you didn't visit the link I gave you. If you'd do more reading and less chest thumping, you wouldn't have to embarrass yourself on the BB like that.
/edit you did visit the site.. Good!
That was just a sample of the inventions, the list is so long that I doubt you'd have the patience to read it through. If you compare the amount of innovations per capita, scandinavia is the leading inventor on this planet.
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hey guys lets kill this thread in here and move it to the o club
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Yeah I'm done with it too..
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No He Drew pictures of Them.Big difference. Drawing is FAR from inventing....If that were the case.. did anybody FLY in one of his drawings?
He had an idea. what the wright bros. did was invent.
ANd as far as killing this thread, I think the thing to do would be to "not read it if you are sick of it" I am also a registered user of these boards.:confused:
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Let's not fight fatty..
I really love American cars, hamburgers, dollar bills and jack daniels. Just like most of us.
I have many friends up there and I wish nothing bad for you or your nation. Despite differences in opinnions.
- Siaf.
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Hehe .. I once drew a starship. Hop on boys, we're going to Tau Ceti. ;)
Originally posted by 420Fatty
No He Drew pictures of Them.Big difference. Drawing is FAR from inventing....If that were the case.. did anybody FLY in one of his drawings?
He had an idea. what the wright bros. did was invent.
ANd as far as killing this thread, I think the thing to do would be to "not read it if you are sick of it" I am also a registered user of these boards.:confused:
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I agree. No need for fighting amongst ourselves.
Perhaps we are all under a bit of a strain right now :o
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American inventions is similar to good sports teams.... foreigners are responsible for success ;)
Anyway, what does this have todo with spying the emails of your kids? Or screenshot induced warps?
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Oh, one last note about Da Vinci.. He didn't just draw pictures. Real samples were manufactured and glide planes were tested by jumping off cliffs with a strap-on wing system.
Needless to say those tests didn't have a very good ending with the lack of knowledge in aerodynamics.
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So ... that would mean ... he didn't even invent the glider. *ShruG*
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Oh, one last note about Da Vinci.. He didn't just draw pictures. Real samples were manufactured and glide planes were tested by jumping off cliffs with a strap-on wing system.
Needless to say those tests didn't have a very good ending with the lack of knowledge in aerodynamics.
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Siaf there is a convicted sex offender that lives down the street from me, he was recently released from prison. I sure as hell am not gonna let my 7 year old daughter play in his front yard in order to get THAT life experience. I am sure you think the guy needs counciling and therapy....I agree 100% I have a double barrel 12ga loaded with N0. 4 shot mags that is all the therapy he needs. I guarentee after one session, he would never cause anyone anymore harm. I talk to my daughter about drugs, and I tell her it is bad. The school she goes to is NOT responsible for her education on drugs I AM. I have tangled with Wipass a few times and wondered what was up, I say damn small price to pay if it keeps the sicko's and preverts away. Sounds like the girl already has good judgement, WTG Wipass.
Remember the old saying "Locks keep honest people honest." That means that if someone really wants to steal, a lock is no deturrant. Even an honest man hard up for tools or cash can be tempted by an open unlocked toolbox...consider that
Con
a.k.a. Mudcat
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Conagher as I was saying it's better to read about it than experience it. A 7-year old is clearly in an age that parental supervision is needed. The situation is way different when we talk about teenagers though.
If a child is curious and wants information, I think it's dead wrong to deny that just because of a social standard dating to the victorian times. We're all born naked and if someone thinks that it's damaging to see a naked body.. well they're far off the mark.
The point is to be honest to your child and tell things the way they are. In your case I'd tell the 7-year old that the mister next door is a very evil man and the child should avoid any contact with him on all times. I'd even tell her that the person hurts small children. With a 7-year old it's perfectly natural to monitor the activities also since the kid clearly has no practical sense.
I however would _not_ read the e-mail of a 17-year old or spy on thier internet activities. Teenagers are old enough to take responsibility for thier own actions - and they're old enough to have privacy of thier own. If they have been told the realities of the life, they come prepared for all the filth and sickoes out there.
You got things mixed up big time, either by mistake or on purpose.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Conagher as I was saying it's better to read about it than experience it. A 7-year old is clearly in an age that parental supervision is needed. The situation is way different when we talk about teenagers though.
If a child is curious and wants information, I think it's dead wrong to deny that just because of a social standard dating to the victorian times. We're all born naked and if someone thinks that it's damaging to see a naked body.. well they're far off the mark.
The point is to be honest to your child and tell things the way they are. In your case I'd tell the 7-year old that the mister next door is a very evil man and the child should avoid any contact with him on all times. I'd even tell her that the person hurts small children. With a 7-year old it's perfectly natural to monitor the activities also since the kid clearly has no practical sense.
I however would _not_ read the e-mail of a 17-year old or spy on thier internet activities. Teenagers are old enough to take responsibility for thier own actions - and they're old enough to have privacy of thier own. If they have been told the realities of the life, they come prepared for all the filth and sickoes out there.
You got things mixed up big time, either by mistake or on purpose.
I agree with the top portion of your post here somewhat.
You don't need to get elaborate with your answers to a young child. Teenagers you have to be tell them like it is.
As far as reading the e-mail of my 17year old. Well if i thought he/she was getting into trouble I would in a heartbeat.
They're not responsible for there own actions untill they're 18years old. Then they can have at it as long as they're not in my house and still being supported by me as in paying for school. so on...
At 18years old and if they are supporting themselves then All I can do is give unsolicited adive they can take or leave then.
Then all the moral values you taught them come into play.
Don't think that when there teenagers they know what there doing. Far from it thats when they need you the most, because that when they can really get into trouble.
OH just because they have been told doesn't mean they took it to heart or that they actually listened to you. Since you are the old man the authority figure. Keep on eye on your kids even though they seem responsible. if they're not 18 yrs old they're not you are! Unless the laws in your country are different.
ASK WHO WHAT WERE AND WITH WHOM. even then keep an eye on them. Your the only thing keeping them from harm.
Privacy well thats for adults. Give your teenagers the illusion of privacy.
I don't know about you but did you ever lie to your parents. Teenagers are alway trying to push the envelope. It's up to you rein them in.