Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: NHawk on March 25, 2003, 10:35:26 AM
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I have been advised not to post this, however I personally think it reflects the general feelings of the more seasoned flight simmer...
Many people have noted a sense of anger and frustration in Aces High as of late. I am so disillusioned by the current state of affairs in AH that I may actually cancel my accounts. Certainly at the very least, I won’t be a two account accessory to HiTech Creations’ current approach to their game.
To those of us who have been around since the pre-AOL Air Warrior days of online flight simming, it is painfully obvious that the same thing that slowly destroyed AW is now hard at work in AH. The very thing needed to stimulate progress in the creation of the upcoming AH2, money, has prompted HTC to utilize the very thing that will destroy the integrity of the game itself; specifically, attracting a mass excess of 'game players' (NOT flight simmers) to an imperfect sever setup with increasingly buggy software that was never designed to handle the load. This is accompanied by the inevitable lack of arena discipline and control created by such an influx, to wit, a general failure to understand the game parameters and the unchecked ability of players to insult or harass other players with impunity.
This situation has already cost AH some of the more purist members. Recently I’ve noted many people logging off in frustration on numerous occasions with 'technical or questionable play' issues. In the past month or so, many of us have noticed many more 'invisible' planes and 'unexplained' deaths that do not appear to have any connection with warping or connectivity issues. Until recently, most of us have felt that AH was generally immune to 'hacking' (or cheating as some call it). Now we are not so sure....... Many of us have had some rather odd occurrences but nothing we can absolutely attribute to illegal play. I don't think anybody in their right mind will make such claims until they can prove them. We all know this buzz has been making the rounds with other more experienced players too. In addition, I have noted the lack of attendance by many of these veteran players.
We play AH for pure pleasure and derive from it a sense of accomplishment and fraternity. It is fulfilling and challenging. However, I personally do not like the direction Aces High is clearly going and know there is nothing I can do to prevent it. Many of us are finding much more pleasure in off line games (or other online games) at the moment and a nearly equal sense of satisfaction without the unpleasant aspects.
All in all, many of us are not very happy with AH and I am unsure what that will lead to.
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NHawk,
I understand some of the frustrations in your post, but I'd like to take exception to one of the points you mentioned, mainly, that the incursion of the 'unwashed masses' (my interpretation of your description) is a bad thing for Aces High.
Flight Sims are a difficult market today. For every IL2, there's 20-30 First Person Shooters or Command & Conquer. A business that caters only to its core audience may have temporary success, but that's no strategy for building a succesful business. Flight Sim enthusiasts (like any game genre) 1. lose interest in a sim for months at a time, 2. eventually wear out, 3. die, 4. move on to something else. If HTC _only_ catered to the current AH audience, their revenues would inevitably sink as more of the players wandered off.
By opening the doors to people who aren't already hard core simmers, they create an opportunity to replenish and expand the paying user base, a move that helps them stay in business profitably and keep making a great game for us.
Finally, I hear objections on Channel 1 about how the newcomers are 'quakers' and people make cracks about how some of the people come from arcade style flying games. This might be true, but the important fact of the matter is that these playes are bound by the same flight physics as we are. It doesn't matter what games people played before, they aren't going to 'infect' Aces High with their presence, so welcome them with open arms.
One final comment on the current state of affairs, we need to do whatever we can to ATTRACT the new players. This means that when a new player asks "how to I put out a carrier hook?" or "What's the key to cycle between secondary weapons?", we should help out and give them the answer. Every time someone asks, I see some jerk say 'Alt-F4'. That's a stale joke that can only really be funny when used against obnoxious players (eg, the ones who ask 'what key turns on cheatz?'), but it hurts the sim when you tell genuine newbies that because they find themselves at their desktop and are a lot less likely to come back in.
When you answer an honest question with 'Alt-F4', you're hurting Aces High.
THAT is the real current state of affairs.
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A quick aside, btw: In your opening paragraph, you say that your post reflects 'the more seasoned simmer'(s).
I've been flying sims for years. X-Plane, MS Flight Sim, SWOTLW, all the way back to Falcon on the Atari 520 and Flight Sim for the Apple ][, so I consider myself a somewhat seasoned simmer.
Your post does not represent my views of the current state of affairs, and I imagine I'm not the only person who feels this.
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My statement comes from discussions with quite a few flyers. I didn't intend to say everyone would agree with what I was saying.
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Chairboy is right on the money on every front... How will the HighTech crew test the limits of their engine and where they need to go without pushing the envelope from time to time anyway? If you want them to stay around we better hope they keep growing...
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"Certainly at the very least, I won’t be a two account accessory to HiTech Creations’ current approach to their game. "
Being a multiple account holder places you in a rather distinct (and small) demographic and suspect as a representation of the majority view. You might have to ask yourself if you are taking this game a bit too seriously. Paying for Aces High twice would seem a bit excessive - if not indeed obsessive.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
we need to do whatever we can to ATTRACT the new players.
I DO agree with this statement. But, not at the sacrifice of performance/game integrity. We may be better off with smaller arenas than we are with one huge one that has difficulties.
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I think the trick here is to provide enough arenas to allow players to sort themselves according to their own tastes and ability. How much of this is done depends on how many people you can attract because someone has to pay the development cost.
To me the crucial element of an online game is the degree to which tactics and coordination matter. If it does not matter at all, the game is not very interesting. If it matters too much, the game becomes so hard to play that very few play and product improvements cannot be funded.
-Blogs
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Yes, I agree completely. This situation has gotten completely out of hand because there are too many airplanes and not enough ground armour. We need more ground vehicles in Aces High. I suggest the M4 Sherman Caliope, the M7 Priest, the German Wirblewind, and a .50 cal armed jeep. If these were introduced, then Aces High would be a much better sim for all of us.
And, one more thing, we need player-controlled destroyers and more ports, too.
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Nobody is born as an uber flightsim purist. Everyone starts somewhere, and that may very well be in AH. The solution is to make the newer people feel accepted, teach them, and fly with them, so that they stick around long enough to move beyond the quake-suicide-jabo style of play.
If a player feels that they can never survive a sortie because they have little knowledge of ACM, they'll be drawn to suicide jabo and other activities considered "dweeby," where they can at least feel like they've done something before they auger.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Nobody is born as an uber flightsim purist. Everyone starts somewhere, and that may very well be in AH. The solution is to make the newer people feel accepted, teach them, and fly with them, so that they stick around long enough to move beyond the quake-suicide-jabo style of play.
If a player feels that they can never survive a sortie because they have little knowledge of ACM, they'll be drawn to suicide jabo and other activities considered "dweeby," where they can at least feel like they've done something before they auger.
Yes, exactly, which is why we need more tanks and ground vehicles. Knowledge of ACM not necessary, and it does allow folks to contribute to the war effort.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Yes, exactly, which is why we need more tanks and ground vehicles. Knowledge of ACM not necessary, and it does allow folks to contribute to the war effort.
Interesting point. Never thought about it like that. I'd be all for more GVs.
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Originally posted by NHawk
I have been advised not to post this, however I personally think it reflects the general feelings of the more seasoned flight simmer...
How long does someone have to play flight sims before they are excepted into this "seasoned" club ? Does one have to have played all those other, now ancient, games to really have a vaild opinion such as yours. This statement smacks of elitism.
Originally posted by NHawk
... specifically, attracting a mass excess of 'game players' (NOT flight simmers) to an imperfect sever setup with increasingly buggy software that was never designed to handle the load.
This reminds of the day after we launched the first tomahawks at the "target of opportunity" in Iraq, and a press reporter asked Rumsfeld the next day as to why they deviated from the War Plan. Rumsfeld looked over the top of his glasses and asked the reporter something like ... "and you have a copy of the War Plan ?"
Did HiTech send you his code and did Skuzzy send you the server architecture documentation ? Without both of these, your statement is completely conjecture, a guess, and I think your wrong.
This statement also smacks of elitism. So Aces High should only really be made available to pure "flight" simmers. What would be the test for this .. a questionnaire, and if you don't answer all the questions correctly you can't install/play Aces High.
I came to Aces High from mainly flying Space Sims, so really I shouldn't have been allowed to play this game and become the avid "Flight" simmer that I am now.
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You are jaded. When somebody first starts flying on of these online sims the level of excitement and interest is incredible. After a while not every fight is a huge challenge, you notice the twits spewing crap on the open channel, and the lack of "newness" removes a lot of value from the game.
HTC can't really do much to fix this absence of "newness". And the arenas aren't really that much different than they were 6 years ago. If HTC wants to make me happier then they will allow range channel mute, permanent squelch list (too many morons out there talking) and make bases closer together and much easier to capture so the flow of conquest moves rapidly (high action anti-boredom changes hopefully). Nonetheless I must admit that the player base has constantly grown since I've been here. They are doing something right. More and more players like the game: There is no denying this.
I have a list of changes they could implement to make this jaded old curmudgeon a bit happier, but it is really not clear that this will make any particular other jaded old curmudgeon any happier.
Maybe HTC will be kind enough to give us permanent squelch and range channel mute. Perhaps if you are more specific on what you really want it can be added to the upcoming feature list.
Hooligan
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I also think that the influx of newbies is a good thing. All of the "core" players were newbies at one point in time. In the last month I have seen many old AW players, who left air combat online sims when EA killed AW, return to fly in AH. Partially attracted to test AH during the open flight period that HTC, but also by the fact that AH is no longer $30/month. The great thing is that several of these experienced pilots have stayed on to become paying customers and good members of our community.
I do think many of the issues with crowding in the MA will be reduced when AH2-TOD comes online and many core players move to that arena.
The solution to Ch1 is .squelch! Which is one of the first things I do when I log in to the MA.
As far as hacking...I'm not convinced. Aside from known bugs and warpy behavior, I cannot say that I've been engaged by any aircraft that did not perform the way I expected it to perform.
There is one issue in this thread that does bother me and that is the subject of multiple accounts. To me, this is an extremely tempting cheat that just happens to benefit a whole country rather than an individual. I personally cannot see a valid reason to maintain two accounts other than to spy. I know this issue has been discussed before, but I'm starting to think that this is a growing problem that HTC needs to address soon to save the integrity of gameplay.
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I'm pretty new to AH, this is my first flight sim, and I'm also one of those "other gamers" you seem to detest.
Not that anyone cares, but here's my view.
Many of us "other gamers" just like to play. We enjoy community aspects, we like graphics, we like strategy, and like to kill stuff. The majority of us are younger, I'd guess 16-26. There are a decent number of "other gamers" (generally the younger range) that we call "griefers". This group really doesn't enjoy most of the other aspects of gaming. They just like to play to cause "grief" to other players. That's what gets them off. They sit in CH 1 and talk crap, trying to get people riled up.
Unlike those of us that are older, many of this group was raised on computers. Many of them can take any program apart, and get it to do whatever they want. When they devs figure it out and fix it, they change it. If they want invisible planes, they have them. Unlimited ammo? sure. whatever they want.
So you may have THOUGHT AH was unhackable, but it wasn't. What you had was a group of simmers that loved the gameplay, so they didn't even THINK of hacking. That's why I originally came here. It seemed relatively hack free, and the community was more mature, or seemed to be.
Now many of you are letting the few griefers that followed us here "bait you out". They cuss on CH1 and you argue with them. They use a hack, shoot you down in an invisible plane, you squeak about it. This is the only reason they play the game. To tick you off. Don't believe me? I'll give you any number of games/players and you can see for yourself.
If you'll just ignore them, they stop. They call you bad names? Ignore them. You get shot down with an F-14 while you're still in the tower, ignore it. I know it sucks, but if the game isn't giving them what they want, which is your misery, they leave. Just report the hacks to hitech as you see them, they'll watch the player and fix them. Don't post them here, or they'll change them.
Anyway, call me a stupid noob, but I've seen this cycle a million times in a million games. Eventually the "good players" leave, and since their is noone left to torture, the griefers leave, and you have a server with 60 people on it at peak time.
Bear in mind, though, that the majority of new players are those of us trying to find a "grieferless/hackless" game.
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The only reason for 2 accounts is if more than one person is flying at the same time like a father son or husban wife etc.
otherwise who needs a second account.
DarkHawk
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I'll repeat this..
I DO NOT object to new players in AH. They are good for both AH and the community at large. The problems are in general server/program performance with such large numbers.
No, I don't have the software code. No, I don't have the specs on the server itself. But, the unusual happenings within the MA are happening far to often, to far to many people to continually point to people's systems or their connections.
In any case, I am enjoying watching all of the same arguements that were flying around before AW's demise.
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"A lonely impulse of Delight,
Drove to this tumult in the clouds...."
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Originally posted by NHawk
everything was better back in the old days, blah, blah, blah
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As one of the "experienced" flight sim guys (since Nov, 93) I kind of understand where Nhawk is coming from...the flavor of the game has changed dramatically over the years. I still mis the old (pre 1.04) FM and the smaller #'s...however I've enjoyed myself alot over the last month since I re-upped (after my 3rd or 4th "break").
Truthfully I have noticed much more "questionable" activity than I remember...mainly amazingly well timed "mirowarps" or a zero that outran my la7 (got film somewhere)...but nothing pervasive.
Hopefully the new offering will allow the "old" arena to return. Truthfully all this strategy stuff bores the hell out of me. As for the reality of a flight sim...this is probably much more realistic...everything we call "dweeby" is simply how it was in the real world....every major ace made it clear you don't turn, you don't fight "fair" and you don't push bad odds....as for vulching...it was the #1 reason the lufftwabble went south...after 10/44 just getting of the ground was an adventure for them.
So it's not the nature of the pilot's (new or otherwise)...it's simply the dynamics of the enviornment...bigger #'s equals a more realistic enviornment and degraded SA and produces more "unseen" planes...99.99% of the time they were there...you just didn't see them.
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Originally posted by NHawk
I'll repeat this..
I DO NOT object to new players in AH. They are good for both AH and the community at large. The problems are in general server/program performance with such large numbers.
No, I don't have the software code. No, I don't have the specs on the server itself. But, the unusual happenings within the MA are happening far to often, to far to many people to continually point to people's systems or their connections.
In any case, I am enjoying watching all of the same arguements that were flying around before AW's demise.
Far different in context to your original post.
Here is my take on it ...
Yes there is some issues as of late with warping, but not to the point that I don't enjoy the game.
I believe that HTC is hearing everything that we are saying and it is all being incorporated into "Tour of Duty". They gave us a couple of patches ("bones") to hopefully keep us appeased while they continue to go full-bore on "Tour of Duty". "Tour of Duty" is now their flagship product and I don't believe that we will be getting too many more significant patches in the near future. I know I wouldn't if it were my business.
From what I have read, HiTech will be introducing new technologies and many improvements (flight/damage/etc) in "Tour of Duty". It is also my impression that all this new stuff will also be incorporated into "Classic" (Aces High as we know it now).
Sit back ... take a chill ... deal with it !!! It way too early to tell the "Chicken Little" story.
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the fields need to be closer together and easier to capture so that there is a lot of action between fields and the action "flows"
more action= less time for channel 1 chat and cowardly building battling...
lazs
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NHawk's argument strikes me as a really strange combination of Jeremiad (Lo! The end is nigh! T'is like the plague of locusts that laid low the mighty Air Warrior!), nostalgia-trip (Twas so much better when flight simmers all lived in houses with picket fences and watered one another's lawns) and elitism (Chairboy hit it bang on with the comment about the "great unwashed").
I've been critical of the way a lot of the Channel 1 behavior has started to migrate across to other channels, but I'm also thinking that what we're seeing is probably just temporary, the way a community inevitably has to adjust when you get a massive influx of new people. And honestly, while I don't play as much as some, I do play a lot depending on the tour. I have a middling system (PIII 600) and I have never experienced any of the technical problems, or been shot down by an "invisible plane." When I get shot down its because I'm either stupid, or the other guy (or gal) is better than me, or the especially deadly combination of the two.
I also recognize that some of my own dissatisfaction of late has been due to feeling jaded, as Hooligan pointed out. As such, I find myself more than a little put off by NHawk's claim to represent the "seasoned flight simmer." I think one characteristic of the real "seasoned flight simmers," or at least the ones that I really admire, is that they don't expect the game to magically fix their "jadedness." Rather, they go looking for different ways they can experience a new angle on the game, or they start trying to create new experiences for the game themselves. They design maps and scenarios, they spend a whole tour flying planes they have never flown before, they push the envelope in terms of difficulty (they fly a Spit 1 into a furball of LaLas and Niks), they try to survive as many Stuka ops as possible; they try everything they can to blow their perk points.
But above all, the "seasoned flight simmers" do not sit around pissing and moaning about how having MORE people experiencing what you yourself already enjoy is a bad thing. This is a game, it's not an exclusive club.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Far different in context to your original post.
.....specifically, attracting a mass excess of 'game players' (NOT flight simmers) to an imperfect sever setup with increasingly buggy software that was never designed to handle the load.....
Actually no it isn't. I think people are interpreting this statement as being against new players. While I can understand that, the point was and still is the software/server issues. If the software/server setup would actually handle the load...the more the merrier :)
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Originally posted by Montezuma
everything was better back in the old days, blah, blah, blah
Don't claim I said something I didn't.
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- April and May are usually the time when you see the most "I quit" posts.
- The AH community has an attention span of about 2 months. After that... they start to get antsy
- AHII isn't due out until August/September
This means that you are going to see a decline in population (especially amongst the vets) over the next few months.
MiniD
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Originally posted by NHawk
To those of us who have been around since the pre-AOL Air Warrior days of online flight simming, it is painfully obvious that the same thing that slowly destroyed AW is now hard at work in AH. The very thing needed to stimulate progress in the creation of the upcoming AH2, money, has prompted HTC to utilize the very thing that will destroy the integrity of the game itself; specifically, attracting a mass excess of 'game players' (NOT flight simmers) to an imperfect sever setup with increasingly buggy software that was never designed to handle the load. This is accompanied by the inevitable lack of arena discipline and control created by such an influx, to wit, a general failure to understand the game parameters and the unchecked ability of players to insult or harass other players with impunity.
As someone that played AW for a little over 9 years, I can firmly say that AH is not repeating the same mistakes that plagued Air Warrior.
What killed Air Warrior was the lack of advancement (ironically the same problem that is now currently happening in WarBirds) and complacent attitude at Kesmai. In all the years I've played AW, the updates were sometimes years apart. You can almost count the AW updates on one hand. This hasn't been the case with AH. I've been playing AH for a little over a year now and I've seen more updates in AH that I've seen in the entire time I've played AW and in this year alone we've seen over a dozen new airplanes and some new ground vehicles.
And as for catering to a mass player base, that is needed for any online game to survive and I think HiTech has struck a balance between the 'general' gamer and the 'flight-sim' addict in the upcoming AH2. The general gamer is probably going to be less attracted to the role playing elements of AH2, while the hard-core flight simmer will not be. The opposite will also be true, the general gamer will be attracted to the game play of the AH2 'Classic' arena while the hard-core flight sim addict probably won't be. A balance has been struck that satisfies both camps.
Ack-Ack
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I've played this game since beta. I have never personally witnessed any "hacking", although I have seen screenshot of some people with unlimited ammo and bomb hacks, completely plastering airfields with P-51's and such. HTC banned them by IP. I am sure that any prove-able hackers have met the same fate. While AH is probably not hacker-proof, what other game has (almost) 24/7 surveliance and responsive programmers support? I think 99.9% of "hacks" are connection/perception issues. I would be very surprised to learn that there is even ONE person to use hacks in AH. The nature of our "close" community would reveal any hackers relatively quickly. i.e. Someone who no one has ever heard of is number 1 for a tour with amazing stats. Hmmmm, doesn't take much to figure out does it? Honestly people... relax... Join a new squad or country, do something different.
I have never had more fun in this game than now. My squad "Flying Zoo" has just been dominating the arena where we choose, way to much fun.
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Originally posted by crowMAW
I personally cannot see a valid reason to maintain two accounts other than to spy.
Well, I have two accounts and have no intention of spying! In fact both my accounts play for the Bishops, so spying on my own country is a bit pointless. Also, I am not currently able to use both accounts at the same time.... :)
The reason I have two accounts is so that I can fly with two MA squads. When I started in each squad, it was in AW, where one squad was in FR and one in RR, so it was easy for me to switch between them according to which arena I was flying in. However, since coming to AH, both squads exist in the same arena and the only way I could fly with both was to have two accounts. I make no secret of it though, using both Flossy and FL0SSY as my GameIDs.
Flossy
FL0SSY //+HG+\\ - Hell Gods
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Originally posted by DarkHawk
The only reason for 2 accounts is if more than one person is flying at the same time like a father son or husban wife etc.
otherwise who needs a second account.
I suppose our family actually has four accounts between us. My husband has one - Zeb - and my son has one - Cloudy - and I have two - Flossy and FL0SSY :p
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Originally posted by Flossy
The reason I have two accounts is so that I can fly with two MA squads. I make no secret of it though, using both Flossy and FL0SSY as my GameIDs.
That does sound like a valid, yet possibly very unique, reason...and also very admirable that you make no secret of both identities.
NghtHwk, is your reason similar to Flossy's and what is your other account id?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
When you answer an honest question with 'Alt-F4', you're hurting Aces High.
THAT is the real current state of affairs.
So the question I tried to help out with the other night was honest? "I can't get my plane off the ground. What am I doing wrong?"
After 30 minutes of basic control instruction, and setting up auto takeoff for this individual, he still made an impact crater within 30 seconds of taking off. Once this type of frustration has come your way it is difficult to respond positively when you see an equally "honest" question.
I think Alt-F4 is a bit harsh (though I have been known to do it myself) but surely people should try to understand the basics before they login?? The dude above was pulling the stick back to go DOWN and pushing forward to go UP! And would not, no way, no how, try doing it the other way. He also refused to accept that to initiate a bank you had to roll the aircraft a small amount and pull the stick back. The only thing that turns aircraft is the rudder in his no so humble opinion.
I don't pay $14.95 to spend a fair proportion of one night's AH session training someone who won't listen. I pay it in the fervent hope that I will find newbies like him to shoot down again, and again, and again,.... (j/k). RTFM for goodness sake, or spend half an hour in the TA with someone who is there for that purpose.
I personally think that without at least a modicum of interest in flight in general they aren't going to stick around anyway.
palef
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Originally posted by crowMAW
NghtHwk, is your reason similar to Flossy's and what is your other account id?
To answer that question and hopefully have the answer understood I will need to give you a little personal history. :)
In the early 90's I wrote some game software for AOL and had contracts for 2 other games. As a "employee" of AOL I was invited to participate in the closed beta tests for the AOL version of Air Warrior. Since I had always been interested in flight I decided to participate and went under the cpid of Eagle. After the beta tests closed I flew under the name NHawk (short for Night Hawk, an dhence my name here) only because someone grabbed my other name before I could get into the open arenas. I retained that name through all versions on AOL, with Gamestorm and EA. In early 2000, I left AW for personal reasons(one of which was AW's condition at that time). In any case, there are those here that remember me. With that said, there were times that the messaging and voice coms became more of an annoyance than fun. So, what I would use and did occasionally (once or twice) use another account for was to fly in peace (on the same side I have always flown) without the day to day chatter. The game ID is irrelevant since the account no longer exists.
Now for those whose memory seems to be lacking...
Air Warrior 4 Windows - Released April? 1996
Air Warrior 2 - Released March 1997
Air Warrior 3 - Released March 1998
All versions received online updates between major releases. AW3, suffered the most when Kesmai was merged (or whatever actually happened) with Gamestorm and suffered even more when EA took over. Granted AW3 did not get the promised updates, but AW's biggest problems arose when they increased the size of the arenas and it started suffering major lags, warps, disconnections, etc. People started complaining at that point and then slowly the game lost popularity, leading to it's demise.
I can't be the only one that sees the similarities. Can I?
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In your original message, you said you would consider cancelling your accounts.
See:
Many people have noted a sense of anger and frustration in Aces High as of late. I am so disillusioned by the current state of affairs in AH that I may actually cancel my accounts. Certainly at the very least, I won’t be a two account accessory to HiTech Creations’ current approach to their game.
What did you mean by that? It appears as if you're saying you have two Aces High accounts, because your post is about Aces High. What are your account ids?
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.In the past month or so, many of us have noticed many more 'invisible' planes and 'unexplained' deaths that do not appear to have any connection with warping or connectivity issues.
Having just logged off in frustration for that very reason. I tend to wonder is there is something in that. Now situated as I am on the other side of the Atlantic I suffer from big ping numbers at the best fo time so warping is a way of life. But tonight I found myself back in the hangar more times than can be explained by my bad flying. It's easy to blame the system or connectivity etc but it happened once too often tonight. Aircraft disappearing, magic bullets hit sprites with no effect etc. Maybe it was a one off tonight but frustrating just the same. I hope it's all on my side. Whatever the reason I'm irritated enough to log off right now. Naturally I forgot to turn on the film and I'm not going back in because I have a headache right now.
I'll try again in the morning while all you Yanks are asleep in bed.
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I think bases are too easy to capture now (I take that back...not too easy but easy enough). If there is a defense in place, then it becomes more difficult, and the more enemy there the harder it is to capture, but this only affects defended bases and eventually, a determined attack can kill the base and capture it without any more excessive difficulty. I enjoy this game the most when the momentum of capture / lose / capture flows back and forth, and you wind up in pitched battles with the same bunch of players on both sides fighting it out, trying different tactics, looking for that "sneak" in the back door to steal a base from under your nose ( or catching the little sneak just as he thinks he has made it, :D )
Now I am not against closer bases, I personally would prefer a combination of distances, instead of the set range of 20-25 miles.
As for the difficulty of capturing a base, I think that being able to destroy fuel / ord / troops & supplies and only 1 easily destroyed VH makes a base defense only a temporary holding action......it is inevitable that it will fall if the attackers are co-ordinated and determined. We all know that bases can be defended, but the difficulty of holding onto a base out weighs the difficulty of taking it. Add to this the fact that the attackers can easily change plans and hit another of your bases while you must either move to intercept them in air or wait on the ground for an attack that is not coming, and it shows that this game is offensively driven. I have no problem with that either, it is as it should be, but I would like to see more VH's or harder to kill VH's.
Now as to the point of this thread........I am relatively new to AH and to sims and to the computer world in general. I agree with various points from all of the above.
We should encourage new players
We should not tolerate those who want to disrupt our fun
We should endevour to make this community better
We should be more tolerant of the occasional "bug" or server issue ( They seem to be dealt with as well as one could hope IMO )
The old timers are not elitists in my view (for the most part) but some do seem to have short fuses sometimes. But this holds true for new players as well.
Are there cheats? I doubt it (at least on any large or long term scale)
Does my SA suck? Yes
Do I need to be told how much I suck on Ch 1? no...really, no
Was that plane invisilble? well, I didn't see him! (4ACES turned a Tiffie onto my six so fast last night I thought sure he had disappeared :p ....but it was just my lack of skill...hehe )
OK my tirade is over.........I think
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Originally posted by NHawk
I can't be the only one that sees the similarities. Can I?
Yes, you are.
AW was cancelled by EA because it failed to draw 'Everquest Numbers", not because its popularity was declining.
Thankfully, HTC is independent of corporate bozos like those at Newscorp or EA.
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I find this very intersting??
Last night a few squaddies and I were attempting to take V195 down a steep gulley in the Pizza map. A particular GV spawned in a place high above A194, a small air field, that we were running ops from. The GV was so startegically placed that access was impossible by our ROOK GV's and difficult, to say the least, for even our aircraft to attain. This lone GV was able to literally "close down" access to the field. He had his guns trained down the runway and proceeded to pound anything that launched GV or A/C.
Cute hey? Gaming the Game? I guess I really don't know? I'm just too new. It wasn't the most realistic situation I have seen thus far in this SIMM. A wrinkle in the Map perhaps? I personal didn't think much of it. I considered it dweebery. Quakery even! I finally just moved on. The guy in the GV was "nghthawk". Given your two accounts, was this you?
If it was, you might consider practicing a bit more of what you preach! If not, I apologize for this totally irrelevant post.
OBTW, if it matters, I have been in flight SIMMs since the AMIGA 128 offline and just concluded a 6 year tour of WarBirds. Personally I love this game!! I do squelch Channel 1!! It's a bit more than these 54 year old eyes want to see when playing a SIMM......
Regards,
Dracon
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Originally posted by NHawk
To answer that question and hopefully have the answer understood I will need to give you a little personal history. :)
Now for those whose memory seems to be lacking...
Air Warrior 4 Windows - Released April? 1996
Air Warrior 2 - Released March 1997
Air Warrior 3 - Released March 1998
All versions received online updates between major releases. AW3, suffered the most when Kesmai was merged (or whatever actually happened) with Gamestorm and suffered even more when EA took over. Granted AW3 did not get the promised updates, but AW's biggest problems arose when they increased the size of the arenas and it started suffering major lags, warps, disconnections, etc. People started complaining at that point and then slowly the game lost popularity, leading to it's demise.
I can't be the only one that sees the similarities. Can I?
Hmmm...
Summer 1990 - AW adds 'realistic gunnery' (before this, it was put the pipper on target, pull trigger and get hits)
Winter 1990/91 - AW adds NEW European terrain. There was a bug in this terrain that was not repaired for 2 years. (randomly, take offs from C1 would start 75 ft in the air).
1992 - Svga AW comes out. AW also became available on Cris. (here come the 10,000 dweebs!!!)
From 1992 until AW2 was released, there were NO major updates to the game.
Fall 1995 - AW2 is shown at the AW convention. This product was a simple port of DOS AW to Windows. Complaints at the convention convinced Kesmai to release it as AW4W and spend the next 18 months creating AW2.
All of the updates from AW2 onward were mere eye-candy. The AW flight model was circa 1992 when it was finally buried. With the exception of real time, some eye-candy and 'realistic flight modeling' there were NO REAL upgrades to AW game play from 1992 until it went tits up.
Ack-Ack deserves a really BIG cookie. He has pounded the AW nail on the head. The problems with AW really began when it was sold to NewsCorp and exaserbated by EA. The bean counters at those 2 companies chose to devote all of their resources to developing new products (BattleTech, Gamestorm...etc..) at the expense of maintaining and improving the product that brought them their success.
Frankly, there is no comparison between AH and AW.
BTW...I am one of those 'more seasoned flight simmers' you are talking about :). 1981...Microprose's Spitfire Ace :D
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
BTW...I am one of those 'more seasoned flight simmers' you are talking about :). 1981...Microprose's Spitfire Ace :D
been a spit dweeb as long as there've been spits, eh?
:p
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Originally posted by dracon
I find this very intersting??
Last night a few squaddies and I were attempting to take V195 down a steep gulley in the Pizza map. A particular GV spawned in a place high above A194, a small air field, that we were running ops from. The GV was so startegically placed that access was impossible by our ROOK GV's and difficult, to say the least, for even our aircraft to attain. This lone GV was able to literally "close down" access to the field. He had his guns trained down the runway and proceeded to pound anything that launched GV or A/C.
Cute hey? Gaming the Game? I guess I really don't know? I'm just too new. It wasn't the most realistic situation I have seen thus far in this SIMM. A wrinkle in the Map perhaps? I personal didn't think much of it. I considered it dweebery. Quakery even! I finally just moved on. The guy in the GV was "nghthawk". Given your two accounts, was this you?
If it was, you might consider practicing a bit more of what you preach! If not, I apologize for this totally irrelevant post.
OBTW, if it matters, I have been in flight SIMMs since the AMIGA 128 offline and just concluded a 6 year tour of WarBirds. Personally I love this game!! I do squelch Channel 1!! It's a bit more than these 54 year old eyes want to see when playing a SIMM......
Regards,
Dracon
Just out of curiosity, what does this have to do with anything? Because he had a nice spot picked out for his GV and did some killing, you think this is a cheat or something? I don't get the "practice what you preach"???
PS... I'm gonna have to look for that spot and I understand what you're saying NH... ;)
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Originally posted by Shane
been a spit dweeb as long as there've been spits, eh?
:p
I beg to differ...I am not a spit dweeb...I'm just a dweeb :).
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Originally posted by NHawk
People started complaining at that point and then slowly the game lost popularity, leading to it's demise.
Here's a little bit of Air Warrior trivia you probably didn't know. When the plug was pulled on Air Warrior, it had close to 30,000 paying customers.
but AW's biggest problems arose when they increased the size of the arenas and it started suffering major lags, warps, disconnections, etc.
That had always been on of AW's major problems. As someone that played on the AOHELL servers during AW4W, you should remember those days when everyone would be warpy or laggy as hell, if you were lucky to log on at all without a winsock boot. The big difference is that HiTech is actually doing something positive to fix the server problems.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by akak
The big difference is that HiTech is actually doing something positive to fix the server problems.
What?
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Originally posted by BNM
What?
A few weeks ago it was posted by Skuzzy that the problem was with MySQL and the FreeBSD (think that was the OS that was mentioned). And that they were working with the guys that made FreeBSD to fix the problem until they could switch over to SunMicro System for their OS.
Truth be told, a great deal of connectivity problems aren't with the host server but with the client but a lot can't deal with the fact the problem might be on their end.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by NHawk
attracting a mass excess of 'game players' (NOT flight simmers) to an imperfect sever setup with increasingly buggy software that was never designed to handle the load. This is accompanied by the inevitable lack of arena discipline and control created by such an influx, to wit, a general failure to understand the game parameters and the unchecked ability of players to insult or harass other players with impunity.
In the past month or so, many of us have noticed many more 'invisible' planes and 'unexplained' deaths that do not appear to have any connection with warping or connectivity issues. Until recently, most of us have felt that AH was generally immune to 'hacking' (or cheating as some call it). Now we are not so sure....... Many of us have had some rather odd occurrences but nothing we can absolutely attribute to illegal play.
Disagree entirely, ill informed, no comprehension of the net and how it works, or how HTCs server works, no solid evidence. Full of hearsay.
I suggest you do some tech courses on networking (CCNA and DA would be a good start) and you might start to get a clue. Then get in contact with a few ISPs and see how they work.
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Originally posted by dracon
The GV was so startegically placed that access was impossible by our ROOK GV's and difficult, to say the least, for even our aircraft to attain. This lone GV was able to literally "close down" access to the field. He had his guns trained down the runway and proceeded to pound anything that launched GV or A/C.
The guy in the GV was "nghthawk". Given your two accounts, was this you?
Hmm.... A GV or GVs strategically shutting down an airfield. Imagine that! Nobody has ever done that in real life or in AH before! Someone grab the rules of engagement and see if that can/should be done! Oh wait... GVs are only allowed to attack airfields in numbers greater than one! Uh oh, I'm in trouble now!
By the way, the Osty didn't spawn there. I had to drive there and purposely position myself there. And yes NghtHawk is my regular player name. Again, the second account in no longer in existence(and wasn't at the time of that engagement) so the name there is irrelevant.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Disagree entirely, ill informed, no comprehension of the net and how it works, or how HTCs server works, no solid evidence. Full of hearsay.
I suggest you do some tech courses on networking (CCNA and DA would be a good start) and you might start to get a clue. Then get in contact with a few ISPs and see how they work.
I would suggest you review your statement. I have a much better understanding of the net and programming than you might think......
1993 to 2000 - Game programmer under contract to AOL
CNE
MCSA
MCAD
If you need to ask what those are, you shouldn't make statements like the one you did.
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the second account in no longer in existence... so the name there is irrelevant
So why are you repeatedly refusing to reveal it? That isn't helping your case; it just seems like you're trying to hide something.
*****
Anyone keeping count?
What number Eulogy of AH is this since we started? I lost track.
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Originally posted by Toad
So why are you repeatedly refusing to reveal it? That isn't helping your case; it just seems like you're trying to hide something.
I am hiding something...the name. Because if I decide to re-open that account I intend to use the same name to fly in peace and quiet. If everyone can't respect that, oh well.:rolleyes:
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What do you mean, re-open it? In your first post, you mentioned closing your Aces High ACCOUNTS, as if you had two currently open accounts.
You are logged into two countries at any time, aren't you? The evidence suggests that you're a spy.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
What do you mean, re-open it? In your first post, you mentioned closing your Aces High ACCOUNTS, as if you had two currently open accounts.
You are logged into two countries at any time, aren't you? The evidence suggests that you're a spy.
You're nit-picking the message apart. Had 2, now have 1. 2 is plural. And, I did not have the ability to log on to both accounts at the same time. Which can be tracked by my IP number.
You seem to be stuck on this spy thing. If you think I'm a spy, I have no problem with that. Those who know me, know better and that's what matters. But, you are entitled to your opinion just as I am mine.
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Originally posted by NHawk
I would suggest you review your statement. I have a much better understanding of the net and programming than you might think......
1993 to 2000 - Game programmer under contract to AOL
CNE
MCSA
MCAD
If you need to ask what those are, you shouldn't make statements like the one you did.
Then why do you make such glaring incorrect statements, especially when the only known issue has been identified?
And none of those qualifications indicate any level of network training apart from at an administration level.
I stand by my statement. Your conclusions are illinformed hearsay and backed by no facts.
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NHAWK a few seem to understand what you are referring to while the rest seem to want to throw a smoke screen up and try and confuse the issue,truthfully speaking NHAWK has been a part of my squad for as long as i can remember and calling him a spy is showing ignorance to the grandest scale,I like many others have been frustrated by the weird happening that comes and goes and a for instance is blowing the wings off an LA7 just to have him kill me and then fly off to kill 2 more of my country men,I have no idea of what is happening and am not intelligent enough to figure it out but I will say cruicifying everyone that posts and not trying to understand what is trying to be said is not what I think this game is about.
When I die I want to go like my grandfather peacefully in his sleep
Not hysterical and screaming like the passengers in his car.
Coach01 THE BREWSTER BUFFALOS
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I'm not calling him a spy, I just thought I might be onto something. NHawk started it himself when he talked about how he was getting fed up with Aces High and was going to close his accounts (plural).
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Originally posted by Vulcan
And none of those qualifications indicate any level of network training apart from at an administration level.
Sadly, sadly misinformed in at least 2 items mentioned.
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Like many of the posters in this thread, I too am a long time online flightsim vet going back to late '94 or early '95 in AW. I found AW then and have never looked back. I have attended two Cons ( Dallas '99 and Seattle '01 ). I am no stranger to posting in the community ( though I do it quite rarely now, here or in BigWeek ) or to the flame wars many of those postings have seen over the years. I have no intention of becoming embroiled in this one.
I do wish to say that I have known NGHTHAWK as a player since 1995. He was one of the classiest players in what was then a classy game filled with classy players and known as EAGLE. He was then and still is always courteous, team oriented, and willing to help a vet or a newbie. Any criticism of him in this regard is totally unwarrented.
This community, dating back to early AW BBS, has always had it's share of mega-dweebs and seriously hot chits, strong intelligentsia and complete dickheads, jokers and idiots, great guys and total losers, elitists and the great unwashed masses, but mostly guys who are a varied combination of all the above. In this, it is nothing more than a microcosm of society. We may not like it, but we learn to live in it. We all play for our own reasons and no one reason is any better or worse than any other. Some reasons may be a bit more high minded, but that dosen't make them any better.
I share many of the concerns NGHTHAWK expressed and I also agree with many of the points made by others in various replies. But they are all just that, concerns and points. Nothing more.
I do think one needs to read his post with an eye towards an individual sense of taste. I suspect his comment that AH is going the way of AW is more subtle than it appears on face value. I think he means that what was once a pureists air combat sim catering to those who truly loved airplanes and WWII history and could come together with others who felt the same and through the wonder of computer technology, engage in sort of a 'homage' to that. Once AW ( now defunct ) and then AH grew to a point where they included many 'game players' who were not as deeply touched by such things but liked to "just blow stuff up", those games took on a vastly different feel and flavor than they had originally and which many early players had enjoyed. I can't imagine many AW vets from those days or even AH vets from '00-'01 not at least sensing the significant change in the 'game' itself as they grew rapidly in subscribers.
Is this good or bad? Well, it's good for HTC as it puts money in their business and their own wallets. It's good for online WWII flight sim fans as it assures such a game for the forseeable future. Is it good for those who prefered the games they way they were? No. They have no choice but to deal with an endless stream of new players many of whom are totally clueless, and more importantly, don't care to be educated as many of this recent influx seems to be. Does this mass influx effect the overall quality of game play in a negative way? In my opinion and obviously that of others, yes.
Have we seen this all before? Yes. Was it good for AW? No. For many reasons AW is no longer with us. Massive growth without technical progress one of the big ones. In the end, as has been pointed out already in this thread, it was simple greed.
Do we all feel the need to vent from time to time about things that we find upsetting? Yes. Will it all be better tomorrow? Possibly.
Should NGHTHAWK have posted in frustration? No. Should this make him a target? No. Well, yes..... "Ask and you shall receive." Was he right or wrong in his thinking and statements? Neither. Its a matter of perception and presentation.
Elitists and 'quakers'. Vets and newbies. Individuals and the masses. Those of us who have been around here for years have been down this road a thousand times before. Thank God we can just log in and out as we please...... Yet know that its there when we want it, whether its 1 hour a month or a 100.
Now can we move on to something really important like RINO's thong or SILAT's sex change operation or who VOSS is this month or killer bunny rabbits or why FBLENBO called me a fool on the country channel a few days ago or is the pizza map edible under certain circumstaces (Say, LSD or a handfull of amphetamines ) or the disco problem ( Personally HT, I think a new silver ball with more sparkles would help the Main Arena immeasurably ) or how in hell I finished ranked 95th last tour ( Obviously the amphetamines did help! ) or is Oleg trying to rewrite history in IL-2:FB or does the average AH subscriber drink more alchohol than the average patron at Joes Bar and Grill ( EAT AT JOES! EAT AT JOES! ) or is Kurt Tank alive and living in Saskatoon, Saskatawon and working as Elvis's valet or does the Trinity map have deep religeous overtones ( If it does, does that make it the Holy Trinity map? ) or why anyone would care if someone else had two accounts ( Other than HTC who gets double the pleasure, double the fun ) or why some members of The Damned have Dmd in front of their handles and others don't or can AH be played on WebTV and if it could be, could you use TiVo to save a moment on the hard drive and then go back and replay that moment in AH until you get it right or would you ever ask your wife or girlfriend to pad her bra to impress your boss or can you take John Wayne seriously as those absurd little ship models get blown up in "In Harms Way" or what was the best AW scenario and why or who is your favorite Python or does fast food cause cancer in laboratory rats or why is this game called "ACES HIGH" when so many players are now drivng GVs most of the time and why don't these players go to WWIIOL which is GV oriented and how long can this sentence drag on and on and on and on and on and on and on and LUGS is still a fairy...... :]
S> All
Buff1
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Buff1, that's exactly what I meant by "I understand what you're saying NH..." Hehehehe! :D
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Isn't buff1 "ironman"?
lazs
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Nope. Buff1 is and has always been Buff1 since late '94 / early '95. :cool:
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I can see a little of what you're saying, NHawk, but correct me if I'm wrong:
You see a cycle that starts with a huge influx of players, which degrades the playability of the game (specifically net issues and more candidates for gaming the game type players as well as ungentlemanly griefers), which, in parallel, makes the game more lucrative to be bought out (high numbers = higher income) at the same time the original developers are getting more grief from the players on game issues such as freshness, update frequency, etc.
This leads to a decision to sell, but like most clueless business men, they don't understand the dedication and degree of maintenance needed to ensure a continuingly successful product. Like a businessman who buys a farm and reaps the harvest only to be dumbfounded to discover that he needs to plow, till, plant, and wait to continue to cash in harvests next year.
This, in turn, leads to less and less investment in the game or the decision to pass on the problems to a different, unsuspecting, business. And this cycle eventually leads to the demise of the game since competitors will arise to answer the complaints of the current player base.
If this isn't what you were saying or implying then you can skip the next part, since I endeavor to answer these concerns. It certainly seems like a valid concern looking at the history of AW and now WB.
I talk with the HTC folks on a regular basis so I sometimes get the scoop, but more importantly, get a handle on the personalities involved. I can't tell you everything but I can tell you this: HiTech and Pyro are very, very smart boys. I've always been impressed by their ability to anticipate problems as well as solve unexpected ones rather quickly. A glance at the patch history will confirm this. But, in essence, they had already taken steps to break the cycle outlined above.
HT and Skuzzy are already adressing the net issues, Pyro and HT together have always (and are continuing) to bring freshness to game with new options are varying game choices, SuperFly and Nate continue to improve the look of the game so it's more competitive with other games, Ronni is expanding and improving the support programs for more player involvement, and JoAnne keeps the business on track and viable.
But the key thing is - the cycle is broken at the beginning. They are addressing the issues of a rapidly expanding player base NOW.
Every simmer goes through periods of melancholy, when they look at the game like a person looks in the mirror on days when they're depressed - searching for wrinkles, gray hairs, and other imperfections. But keep in mind the other days, when you're singing along with the radio and the mirror only shows your good looks and Cut body. Damn, man, look at those guns!
-sudz
PS I also used to maintain two accounts for the same reason - peace. However, I wasn't fleeing pestering questions and excessive chatter, but the ridicule :)
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Great post SUDZ! I think we both see where NHAWK was trying to come from. Unfortunately, like so many posts, the real issue was lost in the frustrated presentation.......
Buff1
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You hit the nail right on the head. Except for 1 thing...
Originally posted by -sudz-
- searching for wrinkles, gray hairs, and other imperfections. But keep in mind the other days,
Wish I had hair, let alone gray ones! :D
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This is basically the same whine that has been heard constantly throughout the existence of AH, and WB for that matter.
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Originally posted by funkedup
This is basically the same whine that has been heard constantly throughout the existence of AH, and WB for that matter.
And every online game since the dawn of time...
Ack-Ack
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If it walks like a whine,talks like a whine..It probably is a whine.
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Nhawk I support your opinion here. I have been in AH for 3 years now. And after last tour I just lost all desire to fly in AH. I fly maybe once a week at most now. After the big shootout I am canceling my sub. Just don't find it fun anymore, I made mistake of buying FB and have been in there ever since. I guess I will take eye candy over massive online play.
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IL2 in whatever form won't pull me away from AH for any extended time... why? Well IL2 is like quake deathmatch... there is never any point...
After a couple years I don't blame anyone for finding they are tiring of the game, it happens to everyone!!
Myself I am one of the worst... I play as much in one month as some play in 8.. and therefore I bet I burn out sooner than others. Its not the game that has changed or done anything... its you the player.
A change to another game gives you a new challenge.
How many of you would trade your spouse in every few years? for something new, shiny, and offering you new experiences and challenges? +)
SKurj
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Originally posted by AGJV44_Rot 1
Nhawk I support your opinion here. I have been in AH for 3 years now. And after last tour I just lost all desire to fly in AH. I fly maybe once a week at most now. After the big shootout I am canceling my sub. Just don't find it fun anymore, I made mistake of buying FB and have been in there ever since. I guess I will take eye candy over massive online play.
My hours have fallen to about zero, but I just don't have the time anymore.
But when I can grab that odd sortie it's still a fun time.
The connects and gameplay are still miles ahead of what WB's was when that game's faults killed any attempt to even play te bloody thing.
But my subs still going because deep down in my heart...HT baby..you know that RAAF Beaufighters a comin! :D
Tronsky
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Originally posted by NHawk
Sadly, sadly misinformed in at least 2 items mentioned.
Well, your complaint lacked any description or understanding of any of the issue of late. Let alone generically blaming HTC for the users lack of ability to get a decent connection.
I would say my understanding of the qualifications you threw on the table matches the level of knowledge being shown perfectly. Most of the rubbish posted in this thread is blatant lack of understanding of the net, net protocols, and how HTC have implemented their system.
The throwing around of 'cheating' or 'hacking' allegations is utter rubbish. My god I saw some fool accuse someone of 'warping through the ground today'.
Ignorance is not a valid reason to complain about things you do not understand.
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Oh almost forgot, why do I never see the "Its the same old same old" whiners in ToD or CAP?