Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zigrat on October 19, 2000, 12:12:00 AM
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and i forgot how beautiful they were..
(http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/dora1.jpg)
(http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/P38.jpg)
(http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/migalley.jpg)
(http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/pony109.jpg)
(http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/p47.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Zigrat (edited 10-19-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Zigrat (edited 10-19-2000).]
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Ok, you are right Zig, the WW2F cockpit is better... been awhile since I have seen it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Heheheh, this kind of relates to one of my big gripes about AH. With it being as addictive as it is, I don't get to play my offline sims as much either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) There are some pretty good ones out there. WW2F was/is good (for some fast and furious action). EAW great immersion. CFS2, excellent mix of both. And my all time fav, PAW. That sim captivated me as much, if not more than AH (probably more due to its being a PTO sim and my not being into online sims yet).
Anyways, gotta go get my moneys worth out of CFS2.
-math
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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula. I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot
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What kind of system are you running that on? Looks nice but can you really get comparable fps to AH on the same system? I say this because I am under the impression that graphic detail in AH is intentionally limited to preserve fps. My fps is barely playable as-is. If more eye candy means lower fps, no thanks.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-19-2000).]
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Speaking of EAW, Ive been offline awhile and discovered some really cool downloads for new skins and terrain. Worth looking into, if you want to freshen up an already great offline sim.
http://eaw.thrustmaster.com/frames.html (http://eaw.thrustmaster.com/frames.html)
Id seen some earlier ones which didnt impress me too much, but these are great. Dont forget to download the Stab tool which will allow you to change skins and terrain with the click of the mouse. (geesh, I sound like a commercial) hehee
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I was under the impression graphics were kept to minumum to avoid big downloads and to limit the amount of data between the players and the host.
ts
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I was under the impression that you fellas are pretty impressionable.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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My FPS in aces high is 45 FPS at 1024x768 2x fsaa (the res i play at)
In EAW 1280x1024 2x fsaa (res i played at) fps is 45 down to 30 when going thru the buffs
in WW2F, FPS is 40 down to 27 or so when action gets really hot , usually arond 35 (1280x1024 2x fsaa)
I ran Mig alley in 1024x768 4x fsaa, gettin 33 fps as you can see in upper corner.
system is 600 mhz, 128 ram, v5 5500
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Tell ya something Zig .. onn the last 3 pics the terrain doesn't look all too impressive ...
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The textures in that second last shot(WW2F) look like someone took a photo of their loop-pile carpet and coloured it green. Maybe their carpet actually is that colour though...
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Imagine if we could gather the best parts of all those sims (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Guess I had to find my Jane's WW2 again...
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From what little I know (and that is little) the poly count is what is important.
Here is something to try (to get the idea of what I mean); If you have CFS2, download some of the better player-generated aircraft. Start up Quick Combat, and play with the planes that came with CFS2. Notice the smoothness of play. Now, reset the arena with all player-generated planes. Notice how you are watching a slideshow now.
I think there is far more to this game than most of us know... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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man i love these pics hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
but the FM in those games just isnt as good after flying aces high...
but damn they aure are purdy
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Time between new planes if Nate and Superfly had to do cockpits like that for every plane...
6 months.
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Polygons is what it's all about.
More polys less fps.
There are other things like lighting,texture size etc. etc. but polygons are the biggest most obvious problem for fps.
What I don't understand is..
Why online/offline "quality" difference ?
You don't send the terrain over the connection while flying.
All the graphics are done by the front end.
Only damage and position,speed,attitude etc. are sent during the actual game.
My assumption is that the process of;
crunching the numbers and send the data and receive the data and interpret it...is using a lot of CPU so the graphics can't keep up on some boxes.
Development time would be a BIG issue too.
I would also assume if all of us cheap, poor bastiges would buy 700mhz CPUS with Geforce2 PRO cards, then HTC could make us WW2F+EAW+CFS2+AH=Aces High: Uber Edition (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
OK...How's this
1)Snoopi
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
Add you name to the bottom of this list
ad then send a uber computer to the person at........
[This message has been edited by Snoopi (edited 10-19-2000).]
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Try the new luzon2 terrain. The Graphics look REEEEEELLLLL good there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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My assumption on why online only games have different quality graphics is simply because of the networking power required. Not only do you send/recieve packets but your computer guesstimates, thanks to HT's great code, where your plane is supposed to go in a few seconds so there are fewer warps.
Now, that being said AH's graphics are EXTREMELY detailed. Tracers are amazing. Planes are really detailed, take a look at the P38 up close. If you really zoom in, you can see the actual cockpit you are looking at from your cockpit view and get a lil' closer.. you can see the dials moving! The lightsourcing in AH is also extremely advanced. The terrain doesn't look bad at all, it just doesn't have extremely small pixels in the bitmaps. All flight games' ground looks horrible, simply because bitmaps can only be done one way or the other. THey can either look nice at high alt, where you spend most of the time anyway. Or they can look nice down low and really fuzzy up high. Until texture memory(solved with GeForce, GeForce2 and V5 cards) is abundant, we are limited by how many bitmaps we can put on the screen. I had an idea a while back to program in two sets of bitmaps, one for fine detail at low alt when you set a certain hardcoded altitude that would transition with the fine detail for high altitude set. Or maybe even 3 sets. Look nice at all alts, wouldn't that be something?? ;-) Unfortunately I wouldn't know where to begin(I never presented this idea to HT because I wouldn't know how to do it) because I'm very new to programming. The polycount in AH's P38 is very high, get close to one and watch your fps go to crap. I think the cowlings and spinners are more angled because of details put in other places. You do know the gunsight alone is a 3d object doncha? Not to mention the other boxes and objects strewn about the cockpits.
All in all, it's really freaking amazing. A HUGE step forward from when I played WB(It was only 2D then, but in 3D they still don't have the 3D cockpits from external view like we do ;-)
Just my lowly opinion tho.
-SW
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Funny no one has mentioned how big a file for an online game with graphics like WW2F would be.
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-19-2000).]
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I don't think poly count is the problem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Its the special effects. Areas I want to see improved are:
1) Bomb blasts, they are pretty crap right now iMHO, samr with rockets. See the p51 shooting the rockets at the convoy? Its not very advanced but its alot betetr than the nothing we have now for rocket attacks. In WW2F when you shoot off a rocket and it explodes at night it actually illuminates the area, very cool.
2) Look at the bombed out tank the p47 hit. See how it didn't diisappear but it sits there all burned out and smoking? That s awesome.. it only lasts for a minute or 2 but its enuf to make the sense of a bombed out battlefield.
3) Planes continuing to sprial/crassh/burn after eject. Would be nice.
More skins. See that p47/p51/109 jg54 skin? None of them came with ww2F. All were made by players for FREE. I think we are the biggest untapped resource HTC has, but they have in the past stated its impossible for user created skins.. why???? Look how beautiful that p47 56th FG is, or that JG54 109g6.
I KNOW 3d modeling hurts CPU power so thats why i dont think we the users should be mucking around with that. But i don't know why we shouldnt have user created skins just like we have user created terrains.
Also, the smoke, fire, and flak effects are pretty yuck. And the smoke at the airfields should be taller and thinner not like a big fat balloon sitting over the airfield (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
While I am at it, in ww2F you see the muzzle flash when the 88MMs fire, and hear them, they are pretty damned loud if you are low. Plus you can see the puffs of smoke and muzzle flashes when the panzers fire. All cool stuff (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Zigrat (edited 10-19-2000).]
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btw im not saying aces high is ugly, just saying HTC needs to improve the special effects (burning smoking explosions etcera) and give us users ability to make new skins (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Here is example of what end user can do for eaces high
(http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/zeke.jpg)
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The immersion will be there when all 190 pilots will look at historical cockpit layout, with metric system implemented.
Moreover, dumping ammo counters or flap indicators on planes which did not have them would also help.
Next step is Komandogerat vs Manual engine management.
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And a switch that makes able to fire external cannons only, internal cannons only or both linked in Fw190A.
It is being sorely missed.
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Zig - keep in mind that in off-line things you don't need to process ~100 other planes global position, attitude, damage... What you see on the screen is pretty much all that is processed by your CPU leaving way more processing power to show all the pretty graphics at the same FPS. That smouldering tank would have to be processed too - regardless of the fact that it was shot 200 miles from the sector you're currently flying in...
Even so - I dare say that both WB and AH have absolutely incredible graphics standard compare to "big budget boxed sims". Way too much effort is spent on "theatrics": "...look how detailed and authentic lowering of undercarriage looks!..." - who gives a toss? You in the cockpit cant see it anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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I KNOW 3d modeling hurts CPU power so thats why i dont think we the users should be mucking around with that. But i don't know why we shouldnt have user created skins just like we have user created terrains.
But couldnt they then modify their skin to have better visiblity?
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stuff like the smoking tank and better explosions wouldn't increatse lag at all, it would all be done on your FE. Right now, instead of just having the vehicle disappear, a little burned out wreckage could be placed there like pictures that would automatically disappear after like5 minutes. All the server would say is "this vehicle died" like it does now then the zFE would say "ok ill replace the current ostwind model with this burned out husk model" Same thing for explosions etcera, no further lag introduced.
For pongo's question, my plan would be to have skins similar to terrains. You can use any terrain you wany in H2H that you have created, but for use in the arena would have to be submitted to HTC for introduction to the arena (just like the med terrain was submitted, same thing with skins) and they could make rules as to only historical skins etcera.
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What zig's got right on the money is that there are lots of very talented people out there who would love to spend time creating historical "skins"... We could then just select camo scheme same as we select ammo loads now. One extra digit in a packet would give something like 16 different variants? Wouldn't it be great?
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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Unless you have a 32 or 64MB video card, you aren't going to be able to enjoy it anyway. AGP would still lead to tying up the bus as it transfers textures between system memory and video card onboard memory. Sure it'd be nice, but I imagine it would be a strain on the video card and a memory hog.
-SW
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A 32 meg video card costs under $100 dollars these days. shouldnt be a consideration anymore.... i just saw a geforce 2 MX with transform and lighting and 32 megs ram for 94$.
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Zigrat , I am sure I have the first three sims but what game or games are the last two pics from please ?
Thanks SR
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SR,
The last two shots are from WW2F. The terrain and skins are end-user modifications.
-math
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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula. I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot
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Thanks !
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We come in an 11 meg download and not on multiple CDs. We're also geared to support a huge number of different aircraft. There are some other constraints as well, but we still have a lots of graphics improvements that we haven't got to yet because of development priorities. That'll be changing as we move from finishing up major pieces like the ships to polishing up other details.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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I wouldn't mind a 50meg download.
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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)
"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]
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I know pyro you guys are doing a GREAT job with the amount of people you have working on this game. The progress in 1 yearreally is amazing. And I know you will get to some of this stuff eentually (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But the priority on small downloads is good, but I am not 100% sure its necessary. Some of the most popular online games have 30-40 meg downloads (I am thinking counter-strike) if you have never played before, while updates are probably around 5-10 megs. Obviously I have a t1 connection so downloads dont mean as much to me as to a modem user..
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Yup..thought so Pyro.
As I said, I assumed development time would be a problem.
That includes not being to update as often because the CD would have to mailed to each user (additional cost too). You could download it but at 56k most people wouldn't like that.
The 3D issues I understand fully since I did professional 3D animation for 15 years (until very recently).