Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: miko2d on March 28, 2003, 10:27:49 AM
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To provide distraction from discussion of Iraqi conflict but still thinking military thoughts, I offer you this little meaningless tidbit of my thought process.
Being deprived of american movies but amply supplied with italian comedies (Andriano Celentano(sp?), etc.) in Soviet Union, it is only relatively recently that most russians discovered that wonderfull american sign of extending a middle finger. I certainly learned it only upon coming here - or probably seing the video-cassetes of american movies that appeared in the late 80's.
Before that russians had to contend with much tactically inferior, if more expressive italian sign - that we attributed the same meaning (any italians here, please confirm if that was justified) - consisting of bringing one's right arm up with fist clenched and bending it at the elbow, with the left palm slapping the right biceps the moment it reaches horizontal.
When someone is shooting at you and misses or bounces a bullet off your helmet, it is much easier to use american sigh. You can do it while lying down, on your stomack or on your back, from behind the horisontal obstacle, exposing just a tiniest part of your body while still leaving one hand free, etc. - while the italian version requires standing up or kneeling behind a vertical obstacle, like a tree or a boulder and exposing much more of oneself.
I've seen/heard of a few people getting wounded by bullets/shrapnel exposing themselves like that - for only one guy who got his middle finger chopped off by a helicopter blade doing the "american" version.
Of course at the time not being aware of the significance - he must have been ahead of the times, we could not figure out why the fellow would stick his finger into the main rotor all of a sudden... ;)
Any stories on culture differences anyone cares to contribute?
miko
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It was one of the smaller or probably medium-sized soviet helicopters and he was apparently arguing with a superior officer - or having received an order and expressing his feelings about it toward the officer's back - standing in the "doorway" - or whatever such things are called in the helicopters - being a tanker by speciality, I had very little interest in the specifics of helicopters and could not tell you the model but would probably recognise it from the pucture. We informally referred to them as "windmills" or "crokodiles" or "flying coffins".
I have not seen the incident personally but later saw that particular chopper and the unlucky fellow (loss of a finger compounded with an investigation whether he maimed himself intentionelly at wartime, which is no joke - he insisted that he was either waiving goodbye :rolleyes: or adjusting his hairdo - all 1/16 of an inch of it and missing his forehead by a foot and a half :rolleyes::D). Some speculated he lost his balance and tried to grab a hold of the rotor. :) Too bad I was not a friend with him - I would have asked him and learned the valuable sign that much earlier.
miko
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Looking for that picture of the USS Pueblo crew in N. Korea.
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This explains why Italy normally does so poorly in armed conflict.
Don't they have Sattelite TV in Russia now?
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Don't they have Sattelite TV in Russia now?
High tech communications in most parts of Russia are horrible. There are several companies trying to establish an extensive satellite network now.
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How bad can it be?
I mean, even Afghanistan has Satellite TV.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
How bad can it be?
I mean, even Afghanistan has Satellite TV.
It's real bad. Several of the major sectors have fiber runs, but local fiber is non existent. Unless you can get traffic running directly into your area, you're pretty much screwed. The local loops there are horrible, and can't really be used for anything besides a phone line, or dial up.
While this isn't true for ALL areas, it is for the vast majority.
I buy/sell/lease/map global communications for a living.
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the british use the two finger salute, which dates back to the english bowman. the english bowman was so feared by the french that when a bowman was captured the french would cut off the two fingers used to pull the bow string.
so a englishman would taunt a frenchman by showing that he still had his two bow fingers, some how the americans got it messed up and only use one finger.
being a euro-american with some italian blood i use both, the italian arm on bicep with a single raised finger.
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Originally posted by Martlet
High tech communications in most parts of Russia are horrible. There are several companies trying to establish an extensive satellite network now.
The problem is that Polar bears walking on the rooftops in winter attack sattelite dishes. You know, there is so much snow in Russia that they can just walk to the rooftops.
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Originally posted by Boroda
The problem is that Polar bears walking on the rooftops in winter attack sattelite dishes. You know, there is so much snow in Russia that they can just walk to the rooftops.
As I know nothing about polar bears or the average snowfall in Russia, I'll take your word for it, or assume it was sarcastic.
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Originally posted by Martlet
It's real bad. Several of the major sectors have fiber runs, but local fiber is non existent. Unless you can get traffic running directly into your area, you're pretty much screwed. The local loops there are horrible, and can't really be used for anything besides a phone line, or dial up.
While this isn't true for ALL areas, it is for the vast majority.
I buy/sell/lease/map global communications for a living.
The problem with fiberoptical lines is that if you dig it into the ground it gets damaged by permanent ground frost, and if you hang them on the lamp stands - brown bears chew and tear it. You know, fiber has no electricity in it, and bears feel they can chew it safely.
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...
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You boys have alot of bear issues over there, huh?
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Originally posted by muckmaw
You boys have alot of bear issues over there, huh?
Do you know why we have Metro (underground) in almost every big city? It's because bears are afraid to go there, and people feel safe there.
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Now I know your joking!
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Now I know your joking!
:D :D :D
Hehe, I didn't count how many kilometers of fiberoptics I have installed (is it the right word?), and how many hundreed kilometers of TP cable...
I worked (in fact was one of the founers) of the company that connected a big region in south Moscow to the Internet. Several dozen apartment houses.
Now I work for the Academic Network, and we have hundreeds of kilometers of fiberoptic. Now switching to gigabit bandwidth. :)
Sattelite dishes can beseen on almost any apartment house here, in some places - like mushrooms almost at any window.
It's Moscow, and in province the situation is worse, but gets better fast.
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muckmaw: Don't they have Sattelite TV in Russia now?
When I left (in 89) we've just got VCRs. Now they probably have more Satellite than some american locales. Certainly every russian seems carrying a cellphone.
There is a huge difference there between capital(s) and periphery.
I maintain friendships with people there - actually in Ukraine, which is where I'm from - and there are peoiple traveling all the time, but I am not that much into it. They are certainly making a lot of progress and some major screwups as they go.
I do a quite lot of reading on the past Russian history - 800s-1917 and 1917-1970 but current political affairs are not nice there.
miko
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GScholz: I have been meaning to ask you about that. Why did you leave Ukraine for the US? (that is if you don't mind me asking)
That is a question as big as the life itself.
I was leaving from 1989 Soviet Union where nobody yet had any idea that the whole thing will suddenly get ended from the top and unravel. My family almost left in the 70s - some relatives did, but the borders got sealed becasue of Afghanistan-related increase in tensions.
USSR was a place where people were not really needed by anyone, myself in particular. And of course whatever "Voice of America" I could get through jamming described US as a country of a free-market capitalism, freedom of thought and fighting with racism and inequality. And no access to Friedman or Hayek books or even Pat Buchanan to disprove that. :) That is a joke of course, but only partially.
I had no idea what laid ahead of me and absolutely no anticipation what kind of success I'd achieve here - which is enormous compared to my expectatioins, though nothing spectacuar by american standards.
I don't see much point rationalising my decision in hindsigt based on what I know now - especially since the country I've left is no more.
I did not feel particularly obliged to the communist party for my "happy childhood" and pretty excellent "free" education, most likely to remain underused there anyway - especially having served in the army to "cover the debts".
I left in "shame" - as a traitor to the communist movement, having to surrender my citizenship, and my diploma to a party functionary in teh university I've just graduiated (I served between my 2nd and 3rd year). Though there was not much of a spectacle there since it was not such a rare occasion by then.
All I knew was that I saw not much future for myself and I had no wish to fight again for that regime in any future war or conflict which I expected to happen. I did have some run-ins with the powers but just warnings to watch my tongue - which I intended to do if I stayed there. So I cannot claim political prosecution not having dared to act politically.
miko