Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: artik on March 28, 2003, 04:46:02 PM
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Hi,
All the planes in AH are from the period of 1939 to 1945 the period of WWII. Did the history of AF finished in 45? Did the great air battales finished in 45? Did we had Korean War? Did We had Vietnam, Did we see Six Day War in Middle East?
What about to add more periods of history with rolling plane set:
1 Our known WW2
2 Korean War with Mig15, F86 etc. jets
3 Vietnam War with F4 and Mig 21, Mig 17
4 Middle East Six Day War - Mirage and Mig 21
Add helecopters to bring troops, to save pilots that ejected their planes and to bring them back.
Do you think that flying F-4 or Mirage less interesting then Mustang and 190? They are faster but you have to know to fight. The missles in thet period had very poor profomances most of kills were with guns - so it is very interesting periods of Air Force History so I think it would be nice if they were realised in AH.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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There are still tremendous gaps to be filled in the WWII plane/ship/vehicle set. I don't see a need for moving beyond that.
And yes, I find the F-4, Mirage, Su-27, ect, ect boring as hell.
If HTC was to do another era of air combat, I'd pick WWI, but not until WWII is nearly finished.
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ermmmm.....no
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I wouldn't mind seeing the setting having a broad range as far as time is concerned (as well as theaters) ... but I would tend to go the other way. Start out in Spain in 1936 for some fun uber-bipe action that transitions into mono vs. mono .... maybe the Russian campaign against Japan ... as well as the Blitzkrieg. Then Bob. Early Pac with the Japanese enjoying an advantage in momentum and equipment against U.S. and British forces. North Africa - Med campaigns. Guadalcanal/Solomons campaign. Italy. Extensive Eastern front and Balkans. The invasion of "Fortress Europe". Final days for both the European and Asian conflicts.
Of course ... I'm just talking basic setups. I'd like to see the ability to modify all of these reflecting a more dynamic war where possibly some actions and decisions can affect the outcome of specific battles, campaigns and, in the long run, the war.
I know the current proposal suggests the individual player or player squadrons being insignificant in the scheme of things (and yes ... that makes things easy to "script") but it would be nice to see the war less scripted and more dynamic.
Sorry for deviating. Back to the specific subject at hand. I've never had much interest in air to air simulations past the Korean era. After all, the air-to-air missle/HUD pretty well marks the end of the true dogfighting era. And as far as Korea goes ... I see about as much a possibility of Dale focusing on it as I do the Spanish Civil War (in spite of my dedicated and protracted campaign to promote it ;)).
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Ermmm.....YES!!
I want to play an online jet simulator, and I don't mean Korea. I want to fire a missle or two sometimes.
I would stick to the first and second generation jets (read: F86 and F104), and not the jets with their infalible missles we see today. No F-15 or MiG 29s please. Those jets still got into turns and burns with each other because missles don't always work.
Mid air refueling from drone tankers, circling drone AWACS instead of ground radars to provide the map information. Slant deck aircraft carriers.
MiGs and Sukhois, Mirages, BAC Lightnings, the Century series from the USA. Two seater fighters like the Phantom F-4.
Super bombers like the B36, B47, B52, Avro Vulcan, and Tupelev Bear and Backfires. Anti submarine aircraft with their MAD gear like the P3 orion to sink Boomer subs before they could launch their missles.
I want World War III in Europe during the 50s and 60s folks. Lets not do the proxy wars. Let us actually see the main event.
Those would be fun. I would pay to play those. I would play on the Red side too.
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Hi,
>After all, the air-to-air missle/HUD pretty well marks the end of the true dogfighting era
Air to air missels where not good weapon in this years - for exemple in Six Day War of 67 there where just one or two kills with air to air missels. They could not do nothing this missels. HUD - in this years HUD had only gunsite that was corrected to distance - to make you able to shoot at didtances of 500- 1000 yard (Can you shoot from this distances in mustang ? ;) ) as a result that fights become fastest - 300 - 500 knots and not 200 - 300 in WW2, so try to aim with mustang gunsite at speed of 500 knots ;). HUD had just very few things - that is not HUD of F-15
The best Air to Air missle of 1973 in Yom Kipur War in middle east was Israely Shafrir 2 - 50% of kills Aim9D had just 30% and AIM 7 had 25%. Why?
There is the perfomances of Shafrir 2 (best missle) it could follow target that turns with less than 2 G (!), it could be fired when it see the nossle of plane in 30 degr. maximum (you can shoot the missle just when the plane trying to escape from you and you on his 6 not 7 or 5 !). any hard turn and the missle lost the target.The ditance you can shoot the missle was 2-3 miles not more than that. The only one way the missels used to make the plane that escaping from you to brake and loos his energy or die. You had to use the missels just because the speeds had increased and thru the distances so it was harder to shoot with your gun. Any way 50 - 60% of all kills in Yom Kipur War of 1973 were with guns. In this war where involved Mirages, Mig21 and F-4E. Not F-15 or Mig 29.
So don't thik that missels era changed a lot. You have to know to dogfight on faster speeds and to operate you weapon in more hard conditions. More than that you can not shoot the missle in short distances of 1000 yard so is it realy good weapon?
The only one reason that missels started to be used - the speeds and the distances. But the dogfight was still dogfight.
So what I mean is not to add F15 - (flying Air ti Air missels battary, But if you interested there is still a lot of use of Vulckan in F-15 it is still very good weapon), But to add jets - planes to get bigger speeds and hights.
WWI ? planes that you can make a loop just after long dive? As for me I don't like to fly Spit 1 or Hurrican 1 - they are too poor for me and I see a lot of people try to gets perks to fly 262 !
Artik
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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Leave it as it is, but give us more planes for the different
time periods of war. Brits not only have these 5 planes in war and
Soviets too. Think of our poor Italian plane flyers too :D
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If I were in Pyro's place I would be selecting Units from this list as my priority:
Russia
I-16-18
I-16-24
I-153
Il-10
LaGG-3
Pe-2
Pe-2FT
Pe-2B
T-34/76
T-34/85
Yak-1
Yak-7
Japanese
A6M3a
B6N2
D4Y2
G4M2
Ki.43-II
Ki.44-II-Otsu
Ki.45
Ki.61-I-Ko
Ki.61-I-Otsu
Ki.84-I-Ko
American
B-25B
B-25J
F6F-3
M4A3 (75mm)
M4A3 (76mm)
P-38F
P-39D
P-39Q
German
Bf109G-14
Fw190A-2
Ju87G-1
Ju188A-2
British
Mosquito B.Mk IV
Mosquito B.Mk XVI
Spitfire Mk VIII
Wellington Mk III
Italian
C.200
CR.42
Re.2000
Re.2002
Z.1007
Misc
Brewster B.239
Commonwealth Boomerang
D.520
M.S.406
PZL P.11c
The units on this list would do the most for closing up gaps in the current unit set in my opinion. Of course this list would have to be adjusted based on the available information. It is quite likely that I have listed aircraft for which the performance data is simply unavailable. Those aircraft would have to be eliminated from the list.
As I am not in Pyro's place I shall have to be content with what he sees as needed.:D
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i agree with the above list, but add a Meteor III as a nice jet fighter alternative, Gloster Gladiator for CT and SEA events (or for suicidal dogfighting in MA - which i currently have to use D3A for :D ) and the HS129 for killing those pesky tanks
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Hi,
Can someone explane why are you so closed in WW2 planes just like history and great battales had finished in 1945?
Aces were in 50s and 60s too. You could see the dogfights and big fights of 20 vs 20 planes in this years too? Missles ? Speeds? What is the difference? Does MiG-21 exploding in you gunsite looks worster then Fw190? Does Mirage looks worster then P38 or Yak9? Don't you have to be good pilot flying at speeds of 400-600 knots and not 200-300? Does bombing targets with Phantom easyer then with F4U (it didn't had CIPP in this years)?
Do you have to aim less exectly with F86 firing MiG15 than 109 firing Spit?
Can someone explane me please?
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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No one said great battles ended in 1945, this is a WWII based simulation, go play 'Mig Alley' if u want to fly something else. Personally i prefer WWI simulation games where IMO (dont slate me on this ;)) more emphasis is on pilot ability rather than a/c type.
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You know that Mig Alley is not the same game.
I'm talking about realy multyplayers game 200-300 not 8. HighTechCreations can take this part of game market adding new era of Jets. The hole thing is to fly together in squadrons to make on-line combats with a lot of players! This part of the market can be easy catched by HTC and to push other games like Mig Alley and to make them really interesting.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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Shooting at little dots on my radar that my computer tells me are enemies isn't my kind of fun.
Sorry.
I subscribed to a WWII sim because I like WWII aircraft, not because I hoped they'd add the F-4 or MiG-21 someday.
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Originally posted by Karnak
If I were in Pyro's place I would be selecting Units from this list as my priority:
Russia
I-16-18
I-16-24
I-153
Il-10
LaGG-3
Pe-2
Pe-2FT
Pe-2B
T-34/76
T-34/85
Yak-1
Yak-7
The units on this list would do the most for closing up gaps in the current unit set in my opinion. Of course this list would have to be adjusted based on the available information. It is quite likely that I have listed aircraft for which the performance data is simply unavailable. Those aircraft would have to be eliminated from the list.
As I am not in Pyro's place I shall have to be content with what he sees as needed.:D
ahem!!!!!! you forgot the yak 3, the fastest and the best-turning soviet fighters of all time
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Originally posted by Karnak
Shooting at little dots on my radar that my computer tells me are enemies isn't my kind of fun.
Sorry.
I subscribed to a WWII sim because I like WWII aircraft, not because I hoped they'd add the F-4 or MiG-21 someday.
is korean war and the 6 day war ok for ah2?
these theaters didint or rarely use heat seeking missiles or BVR missiles
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Maybe we jet fighter jocks should clarify our position.
We don't want to replace Aces High with a Jet simulator. We want both options. I want to fly more modern fighters sometimes. I don't just like WW-2 aviation. Some days I enjoy radar lock ons and spoofing missles in a tight turn. My favorite jets are the older Century series, particularily the F-104.
I am curious why nobody who has done online flight simulators has tried to do a jet sim? WW-1 has been done, mainly with Dawn of Aces. I enjoyed that sim a lot too. Zepplins and artillery barages, and the SE5a were really fun to play with. Now I want to try it with a Sidewinder on my wingtip against a MiG.
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How many of you "I want modern jets" guys want to fly the Soviet hardware?
Not many I bet.
Why?
Because it is horribly outclassed after the Korean War.
That kind of thing is great for boxed sims where going up against hoplessly outclassed aircraft doesn't generate intense dissatisfaction on the part of your AI opponent.
You guys like to imagine yourselves as hot F-105, F-4 or F-15 jocks taking on the Commie MiGs, but there won't be any Commie MiGs because nobody wants to pay to be a punching bag for somebody else's amusment.
WWII (and WWI) like it or not are the most balanced aircombat enviornments there were. Anything modern is a joke from a balance perspective.
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NO. I completly disagree with this. I mean, come on, in H2H it would be a disaster. Imagine a p47 getting in a dogfight with an f-15. No. This is a world war 2 simulator, I i think it should stay in that era. I guess I could let korean war go, since that took place only a few years after WWII, but modern day jets? no way.
Maybe hitech can create a totally different game with modern day jets, but for now I think Aces High should remain a world war 2 simulator.
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Get real. We aren't asking for P47 versus F-15. I don't even want the F-15. I want the older jets that had missles, but still had to dogfight too. Old sidewinders only work from a short range, behind the target.
So it would be F104 versus MiG 21.
I want an online, pay-to-play jet simulator.
P.S. I would fly the old Soviet Jets. Look at the current situation where everyone whines about the La-7? It's not their countries plane, but they fly it. Why? Because it's one of the better planes. Now in case you have forgotten your history, in the 1960s the Soviet jets were often better than the Western fighters of the day.
(http://flyjet.virtualave.net/mig-21.GIF)
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HTC does NOT have the resources to produce what you want...
It will likely be many years until the ww2 planeset is filled, and then there will be game software updates to keep it current...
Looks like HTC will likely be spending the next year or more developing the new AHII engine in which time we will see few aircraft additions...
HTC will never have the time to model the ww2 planeset as some of us would like let alone look at any other eras...
Tho I would love to see half a dozen ww1 rides slid in the planeset somewhere +)
SKurj
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Originally posted by Karnak
How many of you "I want modern jets" guys want to fly the Soviet hardware?
Not many I bet.
Why?
Because it is horribly outclassed after the Korean War.
Isn't that the cold war myth? Quantity Vs. Quality?
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AH is and has always been a WW2 sim.. not Korea, Vietnam, or some other jet-ridden BS.
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Originally posted by Major_Hans
Ermmm.....YES!!
I want to play an online jet simulator, and I don't mean Korea. I want to fire a missle or two sometimes.
I would stick to the first and second generation jets (read: F86 and F104), and not the jets with their infalible missles we see today. No F-15 or MiG 29s please. Those jets still got into turns and burns with each other because missles don't always work.
Mid air refueling from drone tankers, circling drone AWACS instead of ground radars to provide the map information. Slant deck aircraft carriers.
MiGs and Sukhois, Mirages, BAC Lightnings, the Century series from the USA. Two seater fighters like the Phantom F-4.
Super bombers like the B36, B47, B52, Avro Vulcan, and Tupelev Bear and Backfires. Anti submarine aircraft with their MAD gear like the P3 orion to sink Boomer subs before they could launch their missles.
I want World War III in Europe during the 50s and 60s folks. Lets not do the proxy wars. Let us actually see the main event.
Those would be fun. I would pay to play those. I would play on the Red side too.
Umm yeah... wrong game, bud.
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Tough.
I would like to play a jet sim. I've had enough of propellor engined aircraft that I now want to see what a jet with missles is like to play online.
And I think it's not any of you guy's position to be "the mouthpiece of HiTech Creations." Who elected you to be the spokesman for this company? I made my wishes know publicly, and then a few of you guys set up and start acting like you have the authority to say, "No." Where did you get that ability from?
That is right, you don't.
I would like to fly jets online, in a game a lot like AH. What's so horrible about that?
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Let me quote the AH website:
Aces High takes the art and science of vintage WWII air combat
and sets it in an online high intensity environment where
hundreds of players can battle it out with and against
each other.
Nowhere in there does it say "Fly any era's planes."
You want a jet sim? Code your own.
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AH is a WW-2 simulator. That doesn't mean HT and Pyro can't have a second game that is based on the 1950s and 1960s jets. They've done WW-1 back when they worked for ICI/I-MOL, and now I wonder what a jet sim would be like.
And again, what makes you fellows beleave that you are the ones to tell me I can't ask for what I want? Case in point, I think that Wetrat can't have his Bf109-Z zwilling because I don't want it (check his signature). It's the same logic.
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Wants and gets...
Look at how long it has taken AH to come this far.. and how many aircraft/features are still missing....
Coding of jets and missiles, as well as modelling them takes time... Where are they gonna find that time?
SKurj
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That isn't the point anymore. The last three posts I have made were bassically, "Where is the harm in asking?"
Nobody has given me a decent answer. Most actually had a tone to it that bassically means, "AH is MINE, you can't have any of my game to use as the basis for your silly little idea."
I'll expand that more and add that this mentality towards even other WW-2 machines and settings and you find more people against it than for it. Ask for a favorite plane, and you get a bunch of similar responses that claim you are wasting HiTech and Pyro's time with a stupid, useless plane. Like the Do217 I've asked for before. I got flamed because "only" 1700 of them were built and flown during the war. That is more than the 200 or so of those F4U-1C fighters, but the game has those.
I will grant the AH community one thing. You guys sure are hostile.
And one more time. I wouldn't mind doing turns and burns trying to get a MiG into the cone of fire of a sidewinder once in a while.
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Originally posted by acepilot2
NO. I completly disagree with this. I mean, come on, in H2H it would be a disaster. Imagine a p47 getting in a dogfight with an f-15. No. This is a world war 2 simulator, I i think it should stay in that era. I guess I could let korean war go, since that took place only a few years after WWII, but modern day jets? no way.
Maybe hitech can create a totally different game with modern day jets, but for now I think Aces High should remain a world war 2 simulator.
what if hitech create racing games like gran turismo 3 that is very realistic as the AH:D
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we need some axis transport planes you know like the JU-52 transport plane. the JU-52 is also loaded with machine guns for protection.
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well i want sex now again but i dont get it but there is no harm in asking my wife for it :)
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Major_Hans,
There is nothing wrong with your asking for jets, but don't expect those of us who don't wish to see HTC's energy diverted in a "useless" direction to hold our tongues.
As to what is wrong with the "AH with jets idea" is that there is no balance. There would be the USA's jets and the Soviet's punching bags. I just don't see the interest in that kind of thing.
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Originally posted by Major_Hans
AH is a WW-2 simulator. That doesn't mean HT and Pyro can't have a second game that is based on the 1950s and 1960s jets. They've done WW-1 back when they worked for ICI/I-MOL, and now I wonder what a jet sim would be like.
And again, what makes you fellows beleave that you are the ones to tell me I can't ask for what I want? Case in point, I think that Wetrat can't have his Bf109-Z zwilling because I don't want it (check his signature). It's the same logic.
Unfortunately, it is not the same logic. Aces High is a World War II air combat simulator. I agree that the Zwilling does not belong in AH as it was only prototyped and never flown. It is not because I don't want it.
Hitech, Pyro and company can certainly have a second game if it so suits them. I think what the majority of people are saying here is that the current product is the sole focus of the team at HTC. Remember, there are only a very small number of individuals working to give us AH. Being a software developer myself, I know what goes into making large-scale applications and supporting them. I can say with good authority that with their current release schedule and staffing, HTC simply cannot begin to consider creating a new game.
Perhaps they would be willing to talk to you about the possibility of creating your own by licensing their technology. I am not being hostile, I am being honest.
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Hi, we can talk about not just MiGs and USAF planes and Korean, or Vietnam wars. We have interesting Middle East conflicts. Six Day War – we have French Mirage, Super Mister B2 vs. MiG-21, MiG-17 and British Hunter. For example the best jet ace in the world (19 kills) was Israeli that flew Mirage III and IAI Nesher – Mirage with J-79 engine. We should not talk about US planes only. There are a lot of other good jet fighters. There is Mirage In IAF museum that have 17! kills on its nose. For example I’m working on terrain and events for IAF New Historical Events with new terrain (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81807) . But it is too hard to make Six Day War Events with p51d and fw190 instead Mirage and MiG21. But it worst to make is SEA IAF vs. Egyptian, Syria, Jordan, Iraq air forces conflicts that were very interesting.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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oh artik stop this trolling pls
in ww2 years Israel as a country not exist on map.
i type this once again
WW2 start 1939 , end 1945
not 1954
clear enough or should i use bigger letters?
ramzey
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lol world war II all the way who needs jets go play falcon 4.0 if you want to fly jets :)
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Originally posted by artik
Hi,
Can someone explane why are you so closed in WW2 planes just like history and great battales had finished in 1945?
Aces were in 50s and 60s too. You could see the dogfights and big fights of 20 vs 20 planes in this years too? Missles ? Speeds? What is the difference? Does MiG-21 exploding in you gunsite looks worster then Fw190? Does Mirage looks worster then P38 or Yak9?...
Can someone explane me please?
...
IMHO, I don't think that aces were only in WW2, or that MiG-21 or Mirage are less interesting planes than FW 190 or P-51. But I do think that the greatest air battles of all the time did take place during WW2, as you can notice just looking at the aces' rosters: if memory doesn't trick me, in Korean war the top aces reached 16 (McConnell)/22(Sutyagin), victories, and Vietnam was even worse (13 for "Toon", only 6 for Chuck DeBellevue!); and, if I'm not wrong, in Middle East war aces' scoring remained again under 20 victories. This was not only because of the increased difficulty in dogfight (I won't discuss here the reason behind this assertion, it will take too room, and I'm already running long!:p), but even because of the smaller number of planes involved in these engagements as compared to WW2 (this is particularly true for wars from Vietnam till now). So, in a certain way, it's true that great battles (or, at least, BIG battles, if this is what you intended, artik) ended in 1945 (just look at the top scorer list among German aces: there won't be anymore anything like that, as far as we can predict the evolution of human conflict!)
Regarding the game itself, and what has been said in this thread more closely, I don't think the matter is that AH is a WW2 sim, as many said: the guys at HiTech may well decide to transform it in a jet game, or to add a jet expansion, or whatever you want. The matter is that, according to MHO, this period was not only the one in which we had the greatest (biggest) air battles, but even the one in which air to air combat reached its full maturity and utmost expression, compatibly with the characteristics of the medium human being, and with the use of planes that were relatively easy to "understand" and to fly, not to mention the weapons. After the 50s, the technological progress made airplanes more difficult to "understand", and to fly, and therefore also for more and more sophisticated (and initially faulty) weapons. So that's it (or, better, that's how I see it ;)): WW2 it's the environment in which you can have the easiest learning curve compatibly with high performance planes (they were the state-of-the-art prop planes - the last and the best prop fighters-), well grown BFM/ACM/ACT (in ww1 part of these tactics were still in an embryonic phase) and the easiest of all the weapons ever mounted on planes: in other words, a lot of fun!
Last, but not least, I think that this is the historical conflict that more than all the others had monopolized the attention of all: the biggest ever conflict in human history, the one that involved the biggest number of countries and people, and thus, maybe, the one that ties, tragically, all of us together.
I do understand that you, artik, as an Israeli, would like to see (and fight in) the conflicts that involved your people ( I would like to see MORE ITALIAN PLANES IN THIS GAME!:D Btw: good suggestions Karnak, but more attention at Italian late war planes, please!); unfortunately, this is democracy: minorities succumb to the majority!
WOW, what a long post: I don't think anyone will read it, anyway... thanks for your patience, and excuse me for the lenght of the speech (and my english too: I hope I didn't make too many mistakes! :p )
See ya!
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Originally posted by artik
Hi,
Can someone explane why are you so closed in WW2 planes just like history and great battales had finished in 1945?
Aces were in 50s and 60s too. You could see the dogfights and big fights of 20 vs 20 planes in this years too? Missles ? Speeds? What is the difference? Does MiG-21 exploding in you gunsite looks worster then Fw190? Does Mirage looks worster then P38 or Yak9? Don't you have to be good pilot flying at speeds of 400-600 knots and not 200-300? Does bombing targets with Phantom easyer then with F4U (it didn't had CIPP in this years)?
Do you have to aim less exectly with F86 firing MiG15 than 109 firing Spit?
Can someone explane me please?
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
arrtlik can you tell me 'why you are so closed in' post 1945 planes?
just as you want jets some of us want propellors, just as you want post-war some of us want only WW2.
As it seems the game has made it this far with WW2 planes and it would seem most in here are fans of that era dont you think maybe you are the odd one out rather than everyone else?.You act as though if anyone feels this way they are crazy or ignorent.The point is those that want more jets are in the minority else this game would have had its first aircraft as a modern jet and grown in popularity until someone who wanted a WW2 sim came here and told us all we have it all wrong :D. Maybe once WW2 has been covered enough HTC will go on to other eras but if you ask me it would be pointless to leave a huge amount of the WW2 era aircraft missing and start a new era with even more missing and even less diversity of play.
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1. A jet sim using 1950s and 1960s planes wouldn't be the autopilot flown jet with fire and forget missles (with a backup system in the form of a pilot). They still dogfight.
2. Soviet planes of the day were comparable or superior in many respects to the western ones. The MiG 15 could outmanuever the F-86, had a superior climb rate, better guns, and a superior max altitude. The only thing the F-86 does better is top dive speed (supersonic), while the MiG 15 will buffet and go out of control before breaking the sound barrier.
And if anybody can claim the F-102 Delta Dagger was a Sierra Hotel fighter, they're lying to you. Even the F-106 wasn't that great (and neither had a cannon).
3. Soviet vs Western. Are you forgetting the main arena settings? We have Fw190s winging with Spitfires against Zeros and their La-7 wingmen. It's not which country has better planes, it's which has the better pilots. All equipment is available to everyone. If you don't want to fly the MiG-21, fly the Hawker Hunter or Mirage instead.
4. Missles being too easy. I would correctly model the long, long list of problems that missles had. Heat seekers lock onto the Sun, or the Sun's reflection in the water (with no way of knowing what the seeker head is pointed at, just the audio tone). The missle could fail (either won't launch, won't track, rocket engine fails to ignite, or the warhead proximity fuse isn't working). Those darn vacuum tube componets sure ruin your day. Something like 35% success rate was normal.
Things like that. It would bring the airwar into the phone booth quite often, especially with the early jets.....you know....the ones that only have guns (F-84, F-86, F-100, MiG-15, Mig-17, Mig-19).
As for theater map settings, I would put it in Europe before any other theater. WW-III instead of any proxy wars like Korea or Vietnam (make them scenarios).
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allways i was thinking my english skills are bad:D
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Definitely keep it WW2 only. Adding a '1946' mode would be acceptable but not preferred.
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Originally posted by artik
You know that Mig Alley is not the same game.
I'm talking about realy multyplayers game 200-300 not 8. HighTechCreations can take this part of game market adding new era of Jets. The hole thing is to fly together in squadrons to make on-line combats with a lot of players! This part of the market can be easy catched by HTC and to push other games like Mig Alley and to make them really interesting.
Example A: It was going to be called Air Warrior: Vietnam... I too wanted to play that one.. LOVE the Phantom....
Examble B: Janes World War- Janes USAF was to be the first/test bed for World War it was going to have every sime from that point on plug into a single massively multi-player persistant world...was interesting in conceptm, but I have always hated Janes FM's .
for a TRUE jet era MMOG..it will have to be 1 from the outset the one I am looking forward to NOW is Target Korea..looks interesting, but with what you are asking... I cant se HTC spreading themselves that thin.. even AW II/III had only 3 jets, a mig/f-86 & the me-262.. hell, AH has more jets now then AW ever did..
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Yes, the biggest conflict in XX century was WW2, but the thread name called a longer period of history. I do not want see this game JANE’s USAF, I do not know I just want real AH with bigger plane set. One day to fly Camel, than Mustang than F86 and than Mirage. I want fly SEA in more different period of history. Art why do you think that flying MiG21 is absolutely different than fw190? Great battles? In first wave in Six Day War were involved 200 IAF planes. In one fight you could see 20-30 planes dog fighting. Weapons it is easier to learn to shoot simple missile than calibrate Norden site. The main reason I think you don’t want jets because you are familiar to modern games where with one F15 you can kill 10 AI MiGs. This games just arcade games that I do not want to see AH look like.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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Originally posted by artik
Yes, the biggest conflict in XX century was WW2, but the thread name called a longer period of history.
Yes artik, you started this thread calling it "a longer period of history", but then many posts were added, the thread evolved, and, as people kept saying they don't want to move from WW2, you said:
Can someone explane why are you so closed in WW2 planes just like history and great battales had finished in 1945?
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I just tried to give you the explanation you asked for... why we're so tied to WW2, why we (the majority of players, it seems) prefer to fly prop fighters and shoot bullets, instead of missiles.
It seems I didn't have success.
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well i joined AH to fly WWII planes and thats all i like to fly.
But each to his own
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read the siganture :)
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The real problem for a MMOG jet sim is lag. A speeds increase so does the lag difference.
Btw. Karnak and anyone else that knocks Soviet jets; I'll take a 50's Mig-21 over a F-104 anyday, and the Starfighter will loose 8 out of 10 fights. I'll even take an old 60's Mig-21 over a brand new 60's F-4, atleast the Mig got a gun. In Vietnam the Fishbed held a 2:1 k/d over the Phantom (only counting the pure Mig-21 vs. F-4 engagements). When we get to the late 70's and early 80's ... well, let's just say I'll never want to face Vipers in a Flogger ... ever! :)
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I don't think Lag would affect jet combat much. Most of it is the same as WWII flying. Actually, air combat manuevers are getting slower. In the First World War, you could do a 180 is a quick flick of the controls. Nowadays you have to grunt and strain thru a drawn out, large turn that takes a lot longer.
Merges are faster, but that is more about visual effects of the graphics, not about lag.
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Weell lets say you've both fired all your missiles and now you are in a guns only engagement. You try to run, you get up to around 900mph and notice you are now d2.0 ahead of the badguy, when all of a sudden... BANG... you see his tracers and you are in the tower...
In rear view things are closer than they appear, the faster you go, the larger the discrepancy in the range. Cannot be avoided due to the internet.
SKurj
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Skuj, that would only happen if the jets were to be dropped into AH as it currently stands.
Obviously a jet sim version would not be the same. Who in their right mind would intentionally make a jet sim buggy like that?
Change the code so the engagments of the jets is smoother.
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Major_Hans,
You don't understand what Skurj was trying to tell you. It has nothing to do with bugs or any other software. It has to do with the simple time it takes data to move from, say, Australia to England over the Internet. If it takes .15 seconds an aircraft moving 200mph will x distance in that time, an aircraft moving 1200mph will go x*6 distance in that time. That is a six times greater difference in apparent position on each FE and there is absolutely nothing that software can do to fix it.
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Originally posted by Major_Hans
Skuj, that would only happen if the jets were to be dropped into AH as it currently stands.
Obviously a jet sim version would not be the same. Who in their right mind would intentionally make a jet sim buggy like that?
Change the code so the engagments of the jets is smoother.
So your wanting HTC to make AH2, and research how to make AH: The Jet Era work???
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Hi, the problem of connect is not really such big problem as you think. First of all the speeds of interceptions are not 1.5-2 Mach but 0.8 Mach maximum. The supersonic speeds had used to disengage or catch the enemy. For example the best speed for MiG-17 for T&B interception is around 300 knots over that speed it becomes to hard to control – the speeds of p51d and fw190.
Secondly the relevant speed is relative speed between the planes and not TAS.
Thirdly how can you see there are a lot of multiplayer jet simulators that do not have this problem.
And finally do you feel this problem flying 262? The dogfight speed will not be mach bigger. The main reason you do not see yourself flying jets is the tradition to see modern planes as flying battery of missiles that popular games have made it – the absolutely wrong point of view. More than WB started to develop Korean War. If HTC misses this part of market it will be harder to get clients later.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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AHAHAHAHA! JETS! LOL
why dont u just leave this game and go buy a game where all you do is wait for something to go beep beep and shoot your missle and land, how boring, its like watching paint dry
lol, world war two is enough, we dont need some stupid newb going around in a mig or mirage shotting missles....LOL
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hi,
>why dont u just leave this game and go buy a game where all you do is wait for something to go beep beep
>and shoot your missle and land, how boring, its like watching paint dry
all you are talking about is - for simulators like JANES USAF or F15
the firing missle to the taret at you radar started just in period of F15s and MiG29 - more than that Sparrow (AIM-7) missels was very unsucsseseful! Even morden F15 is going to Close Dogfight with MiGs and have to get on their 6. The fire and forget missle does not mean fire and get the kill! For exemple one of IAF aces that get 9 kills in 2 days of war in 1973 used missels just to make the first kill when the enemy DO NOT SEE YOU and flights stright. The range of the missels was very poor 2-3 miles. The tacticks of dogfighting was almost the same B&Z, T&B - don't thing that fighting with Mirage vs MiG-21 is so different than Spit vs 109!
This feeling of hear beep,beep from your missle seecker and not to see the target was made by stupid games.
The hole thing - NOBODY TRYED TO FIGHT MiG15 vs F86 IN THE MEGAMULTYPLAYER GAME because there is no such game.
So if HTC want to concurate on the big marcket of ONLine games is should to start to develop the new Jet Period on the base of AH
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel