Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ice on October 19, 2000, 09:44:00 AM
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I have yet to figure out why it was so much fun. It sure wasn't the FM or graphics, that's for sure.
Could it have been that it was our first online flight sim or was it something else?
Those of you who were there may or may not know what I'm talking about, but if you were I'de sure like your opinion and also if you can relate to what I'm talking about.
That sim was a hoot and I miss the fun I had those many years ago (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Don't get me wrong...AH is a blast, just something is different today...perhaps it's me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
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Was owned by Genie server I believe, when I first logged on in around 1989? I believe it was the inter-action between a human opponent vs an AI for me...actually knowing that someones day was just ruined as I shot them out of the sky, and visa versa!
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Ice,
I feel the same way. Never had as much fun in a flightsim as I did in DOS AW. I suspect it was a combination of things:
The first (?) online WWII flightsim.
Direct involvement of the developers.
A small community of players, made up of hard core WWII aircraft fans, who had searched out the game, made the effort to get it to run on their computer, and paid BIG money to play. (Not many people would deal with all that just to "shoot stuff".)
A community with tradition, folklore, and player legends. When I got there in 1991, there was already a well-established community.
Simple graphics, and flight models. Seems like people concentrated much more on player community interactions than on the minute details of the mechanics of the game. Like kids with only a stick for a toy, "you had to make your own fun".
Hate. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
One of the first things I noticed about AH when I joined the open beta, was that it had the DOS AW "feel" to me. In a lot of ways, it still does. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
popeye 5190
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 10-19-2000).]
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Funny. I'd asked this same question on a private (but public accessable) AW news group recenty. (whistful sigh for nntp). My question pertained more to why many still remained with AW so many years after the 'golden era' of AW DOS.
Let me grab two notable (the only) answers for you, just to add to the conversation. But, for the most part, it seems it was being "the first", a smaller community and being a community it was pretty tight knit even with the few 'knots' that were mixed in. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Notable non-responses were Quarters and Moggy who are employed by Kesmai and who's answers would not be unbiased anyway. And DeadDuck, Cookie, Tex (although he went to the AH con and was seen online here recently) as well as a few others either never saw the question or just did not feel like replying.
Question: "WHY do you miss the Genie days? And maybe, depending on a few possible answers I can think might be coming, this will segway into WHY do you still fly AW?"
LoneWolf:"simply a wish for the days of smaller more tight knit community-we all pretty well knew each other-not that bigger isn't as good, just miss the sense of oneness (imho)..."
GypsyBaron: "I did really enjoy knowing virtualy everyone in our virtual sky. And not have to worry about some TOS-spouting-pimply-faced-moronic-dweeb pushing the virtual "complain" button when you partook of a bit of Chan 1 assault on the senses (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) "
-Westy
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Oh Man! AW!!!!!
I read an article in MACWORLD about this new Genie service in 86 or 87, just out of Grad school... And I couldnt believe what I was reading.
For ever I had been dreaming with airplanes. When I was a kid I has this battery thing that turned around in circles on a string... Then Cox models... Then board flight sims... This looked like Nirvana.
Anyway, signed up to Genie with my 1200 baud modem, and life changed. This was on my Mac Plus with a B&W screen hardly bigger than a stamp, the planes were wire models, you could download non working control panels, man I had fun fun fun!
I especially remember a cool character called capn Trips. He and I would fly and talk for hours. Interaction with the designers was constant. In fact, they gave us flight models to test in the main arena!
Somebody mentioned that in fact when a plane turned it lost energy, and that this wasnt simulated. So KESMAI cranked out a version that did lose energy, and allowed anybody to try it out. Trips and I downloaded it, and had our own little test. We yelled (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)ont get near us, we are testing! and NOBODY EVER THOUGHT OF INTERRUPTING. EVERYBODY CIRCLED AND WATCHED.
Popeye says it all pretty much, I would only add that It was originally a MAC game, and calling it AWDOS is not quite accurate.
You see, the game WAS the community then (or the community was the game).
Not being nostalgic, I understand time and numbers have changed, I was 26 and now I am 40, but ahhhhh the memories...
You see, all this was new... the way the superb WB realism and graphics were new a few years ago... And the way AH is new now.
Cheers and thanks for making me remember,
figaro (Parsifal on AW)
[This message has been edited by figaro (edited 10-19-2000).]
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yep.. what everyone said plus.... We were all newbies. We didn't complain too much cause we didn't even know how to use what we had at first. AH has some of that flavor simply because it is new. Most are still in the same boat.
AH also, IMO wisely promotes newbies with the 2 free week thing. fresh blood in the game and on channel 100 adds to the who newness image.
lazs
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I always thought AW's graphics were pretty dang good for 1987 standards (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It's unfortunate, though, they they haven't made any serious improvements to the actual game since AirWarrior for Windows. That's why they're behind now.
Of course, AW's biggest asset at the present time is its affordability. I simply can't afford to keep a subscriptiono to AH.
J_A_B
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My wife could tell you better than I could, but I believe I was paying something like $5/hour? Does that sound about right? (Too many beers ago to remember)
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I loved AW DOS on Genie and later Kesmai as it was FAST. The arena was smaller and you could get into action with little time spent. Yes there were astronauts but the FM was closer on the planes so you could be competitive in a variety of rides. If you took a F^ you could fight with all but the dedicated Zeke TnB fight and still have a chance.
The relaxed FM was ok if you were not a purist and lent itself to a more "fun" oriented player.
Squads were tight and maintained a reputation. There was the ever present squad rivalry and the chance to totally shut down a country. TAS did it several times. We even had squads come up 30 minutes before our regular squad mission times just to try and vulch us on start up. We had some really outstandingly fun nights fighting our way out of the trap and then trashing the side that did it to us.
Game play was easy (relaxed) and most of all you could get into the action quickly. That is something that is lacking in AH outside of the TA (which IMHO is like AW main and more fun)
Mav
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Close Ripsnort. I was paying $6 / hour in 1991. Have to say it's still the most fun I've ever had with any flight sim. I started with a Mac until Hitech told me how cool his 2-button CH Flightstick was, so I actually bought my first PC just so I could play with that joystick :-)
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Pretty close Rip. When I was flying it on Genie, it was $6 an hour. So expensive that my flying time was strictly limited. I spent a lot of time reading the various docs available (heavens, this was pre-Web days even) and chatting in the "lobby" area. I'd agree that the small community was part of the fun. You really did know everyone. Overall, however, I think the mind blurs the ugly parts of those days. You remember the good stuff and not the large number of tech problems, the clunky interface, and the staggering bills. I much prefer what we have now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Funny,
everything you guys describe, is exactly the same kind of fun I had in my first online sim, Warbirds 1.11
Logging in and flying was so much FUN for me I couldnt describe it. It wasnt nearly as good as AH, but there was this something..
Maybe its just that we have taken online simming for granted. Back then on our first online experience, it was something NEW, incredible.. it was magic.
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Pars you old bastage, you! DosAW was a hoot, wasn't it?
Bunch of us still get together to shoot the chit, inlcuding Spitboy, Skinnyboy, Rabbit, KB, Quick, Flames, Walrus, Dwarf, etc.
Dog
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Ice..
I miss AW DOS and i finally realised why. Back in 1989 when i 1st logged on to AW DOS there where very few people flying. Cost was very high, ISPs where hourly AW DOS was hourly. This kept the kids out.
It was a great community, i cant remember any instance of some idiot running loose at the mouth.
Damn we had fun
Bulldog -+NKB+- AW DOS
Warrdog 13th TAS AW DOS
Dog1 Confirmed Kill/Warbirds beta
--wd-- JG26 Warbirds
easyoz (fun handle) Warbirds
Wardog 357th Aces High
Ice, are we getting old?
Love flying (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Dog out.....
[This message has been edited by Wardog (edited 10-19-2000).]
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That was MacAW Dog (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
A couple of guys in that list that I haven't heard of....I assume they joined up on the other side when it moved to AOL (couldn't stomache that). But I definately remember Dwarf and Walrus etc. .... and obviously Spit.
Where do u guys meet up?
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Never tried AWDOS.....1st Online Was AW2 right when it came out.
Anyone remember the original "flight simulator" from sublogic ?
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Snoopi
AW DOS came out in 1986 with a CGA Front End.It was the 1st online air combat sim.
then AW4W, AW2, AW3. All of them use the outdated AW DOS FM, Damage modeling and ballistic. Out of all the AW programs, AW DOS was the best for me..
Dog out..
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Those were the days (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I didnt fly much at all but started in 91 on Genie.
I remember jumping onto the runway in armour for field defense and wasting about 10 of my own team (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I didnt move from the spawn point when I started firing.
Needless to say I was a dweeb.
Ping the dweeb
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WD...
Yup...we are old (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I flew my first sorties on an Amiga 1200...full screen for me cause I had the horsepower to run it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The squads were legendary like Mav said...close knit arena...and if someone left for another country, well I can't remember anyone ever doing that unless they were PNG (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Simple is a good thing...prolly why I get so tired of hearing about whats wrong with AH etc...I never thought to even complain about AWDOS when I flew it, was too busy havin fun!
Seems that is not the case in todays arenas.
Good to hear from all you old farts...especially Mav and Wardog...oldtime Original 13th TAS killers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ice
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The first expirience is something which you will never forget. I remember my first connect, first chat, first post, first computer game, and so on.
And I remember my first kill in AH. I got the guy at 1.1k, when he tried to land, that is how my dweebish career started (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) But I was so exited that I screemed as crazy, and that was 5.30 in the morning. Well, I think that is the expirience my family remember well, also (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
AH is a great game, in my heart it is second only to the Wizardry 7. May be in 2010, when we will all play Battles in a virtual reallity I will post something about how great that old AH day were (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fariz
Fariz
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Figaro,
Capn Trips is still around. He flew WB with us when the Pigs were flying WB. He has flown AH, although he isn't active lately. Capn Trips is still a Pig and still around the community, you'll see him again. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Oink!
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Who still has the AW DOS software?
(raises hand)
Only CYAC came close to AWDOS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
- Jig
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AW DOS
it was awsome, could not belive it. The 1st month hit me for 350 buck hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Need less to say AW dos v1.4 effected me very strongly. Wonder what it would feel like to play 1/2 time again. Still have genie login etched forever in my brain xtx80210,vgdqeq....
HiTech
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Expensive, that is the memory that sticks with me. My friend and I were in grad school, and every tuesday evening we would leave the lab, go for cheap chinese take-out, go to his place and each fly precisely ONE hour of AW Dos. Then we would continue whatever wargame we had set up that week.
We were splitting the cost of the GEnie account, and I must admit, eventually split the cost of a copy of Vfilm. Then we finally compiled Jim Knutson's dialer on the unix box and got into the ladder, but that's another story (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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U guys are old
but i remember my first computer game ever, it was aces of the pacific, i loved that game. I still remember how fun to divebomb the jap carriers at midway in my trusty dauntless. and there was supposed to be a multiplay addon for it but they never made it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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It was primitive. It was original. The guns were like lasers. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It was marvelous technology. Mind bogleing. It was the most fun I ever had outta bed. Ever. Every kill was an instant adrenilne rush.. amyl nitrate on a computer screen.
And nobody ever spent 380 bucks and squeaked about the sim.. they squeaked about their wives seein the bills.
Hang
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Valsov..
I remember Vfilm, was HTs baby.. Maybe the reason AH gun camera film rocks.
Dog out.....
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Jeez, Hang! You hit that on the head!
Hide the Visa bill! Hide the Visa bill!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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LOL! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
My first bill was over 800.00!!!
I had no idea that genie charged more in the afternoons than evenings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Just told my wife about that one last year (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) She wanted 800.00 to even the score (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Geez, is that really Pars?
Heya Nash - check yer email, you FW-stalling spin dweeb <g> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
MacAW was a lot like the old DOS AW days, at least according to the DOSAW vets like Bull, Fool, Fogy, etc., who flew with us in the old days (circa 1995-1996 for the open net beta of MacAW.) MacAW was really nothing more than DOSAW, even though at the start the idea was to make it the Mac version of AW4W. It never really got past DOSAW's last incarnation in features.
The community was tiny and tight knit. Everyone knew EVERYONE, and their fighting styles. Squad were tight knit - many survive to this day even without a real game to base themselves around. And of course, Voss from Kesmai disabled all the Relaxed Realism, so we all flew FR in those days - something very different from AW4W and it's hordes of RR folks at the time. It was a great time - I must have spent 25 hours a week flying and bullchitting in there through 1995. Haven't been able to get that same feeling out of any sim since.
I think it, like DOSAW, was a combination of a small, tight-knit community of folks who were distintinctly interested in A2A combat on the personal level. There seemed to be a much higher degree of respect - like someone said up thread, if two people were going at it in a good fight, it was unthinkable to dive in on them. Any newbies quickly learned the code, and adopted it. It was really community in action.
I think once you pass a certain level of size, the emphasis shifts from the overall community to *segments* of the community, and that does a lot to remove the overall cohesion folks felt about MacAW and DOSAW in their day.
Spitboy -SW-
[This message has been edited by Spitboy (edited 10-19-2000).]
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Originally posted by Jigster:
Who still has the AW DOS software?
(raises hand)
Only CYAC came close to AWDOS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
- Jig
Mav raises hand too, Got 2 sets! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 10-19-2000).]
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I raise middle finger to aw dos players! Why?
After 41/2 years of aw2 and 3 i killed them all ,many times.
They all screamed like babies. They all took a superior attitude. Even though they sucked.
We were here first!
We are superior!
Gee i rember when ....then would come when i played the real aw. LOL the aw dos etc.
The golden age of flight sims is now.
Ah Plus 4 other titles due to come out.
A larger group of players, better players at that.
EYE
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Hey Nash-
I did play dosAW for a brief time before they pulled the plug, but you are correct- the guys I mentioned were, of course, mostly macAW types. I forgot, BTW, to mention Usul, who I believe played dosAW for some time as well. Pay attention to spit's email and come on by for a chat!
dog
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Salute edog and Spitboy!!!!!!!
Those were the days!
I am very flattered that you remember my name!
Do any of you hang around WB any more? I sadly cant fly AH because im on a Mac.
I would love to get in touch!
My Email:
julio.batista@retemail.es
Lephturn, thanks for the info, Trips was a very important man for me in those days...
Incidentally, a clear and important advantage of those days over these is that I NEVER read things like "raising a middle finger" to me because of something I or anybody else had said.
Cheers
figaro, parsifal, pars!
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Never played AW DOS, my first sim was Warbirds. Version 2.6, and I thought it was the best darn thing since sliced bread. Only played offline, against the TIE fighters. Got online once with a free account during "The GREAT arena bug hunt" for about 4 hours. First kill was an Me-262 coming head-on against my 190A8. Nice fireball those 262s make.
When I first saw Aces High I looked at the screen shots and damn near fainted. Here is a game that's better than Warbirds will EVER be! Although I did think whoever did the cockpit reference shot had the art talent of a 3rd Grader. When BETA hit, and I found out, I ran here as fast as my 56k modem would let me. Dloaded the BETA [.40 as I recall] and went at it. Got my first kill on my 5th or 6th time logging in. Enemy Bf-109 in a perfect bounce.
Now AH is getting better. After reading alot about the Me-262 I went and dloaded Warbirds again just to fly it. Although I still think nearly 40 megs is TOO BIG for anyone to download.
Not bad for being a 22 year-old computer/WW2 aircraft geek, huh?
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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Eye....
I believe you have missed the point of my original post. I was not interested in hearing about the bad times...only from those who remembered AWDOS in the way that I expressed it.
Maybe you can clear this up for me....did you play AWDOS, and do you remember it as a good thing, or did you just want to post your opinion of those that used to play it?
Ice
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Oh my gosh....."halftime arena", haven't heard that in a Looooonnngggg time...but to answer the main question....was the human opponent aspect that attracted me the most. That I could play against humans while "simulating" flying an aircraft was too much to resist.
RAS
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Jigster~
I still have AirWarrior 1.5....Got it when I was 16 and it was my first computer game of any kind.
That interface is sooooo bad by modern standards, almost totally text-based.
I love that game!
J_A_B
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Ice...
Remember Cactus.org.. this was the FTP site for all our AW DOS downloads. Check this link out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://www.cactus.org/AirWarrior/InternetBX/FileSection/PCInstall.html (http://www.cactus.org/AirWarrior/InternetBX/FileSection/PCInstall.html)
Ill try accessing the FTP server when i get home, see whats left on her.
Dog out....
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Hehe, I feel the waves of nostalgia washing over me here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). I read about AW way back when, could even get it for my Amiga, but there was no such thing as an online service, much less internet connections, in Sweden at the time. Then when I moved to the US for a while and could finally try AW I was in heaven. At least for about 5 minutes until Tex cleaned my clock over the central sea, and I was hooked for life (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Ahh, the spin-reversing 190's, the magical dweebfires, P-51's with instant turn rates like zeroes as long as you lowered one notch of flaps (and got the kill in half a turn, or you were dead meat (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Even the great, lumbering target drone P-47's. I flew with the DIKtators as Karl XII, don't remember my player number anymore though.
Couldn't connect to AW from Sweden when I went back, so I switched to WB (I'd tried out the CK beta as Opus for a couple of days), became Rickenbacker (as I'm known everywhere else on the net) and never looked back. When AH came out I hadn't played WB for a while due to the high price, so it was right up my alley, and here I am (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
ricken
-rick-
--ri--
r--r
-ri-
opus
Karl XII
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Rickenbacker (Ricken)
-ISAF-
the Independent Swedish Air Force
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Originally posted by Wardog:
Ice...
Remember Cactus.org.. this was the FTP site for all our AW DOS downloads. Check this link out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://www.cactus.org/AirWarrior/InternetBX/FileSection/PCInstall.html (http://www.cactus.org/AirWarrior/InternetBX/FileSection/PCInstall.html)
Ill try accessing the FTP server when i get home, see whats left on her.
Dog out....
Welcome to Air Warrior!
What you have downloaded is the IBM PC and compatibles front end for
Air Warrior. Requirements to run this program are:
1) 386/25 or better.
2) 4 Meg of RAM - 3.5 Meg free.
3) Video card capable of 640x480 resolution in 256 colors.
4) Hard disk with at least 7 meg free.
5) A mouse or joystick - joystick recommended.
Ahh the good ol days.
The link for v1.20 is there, but it's dead.
I have the disk set and the v1.6 AW CD that came with a DOS flight sim grab bag...the first time I ever got all the plane art! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If I remember right I was oogling over Fighter Duel at the time. It was the first game with realistic (hehe) overcast layers!
- Jig
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"Fighter Duel"
LOL. My boss bought that when it came out. He loaded it up on his machine... flew it off line for a month; got 'good' on the AI and then installed it on the company network. We got NO work done.. from 9 to 5 fer about 2 weeks. I kicked his ass... no mercy.
One morning; it had vanished from the network.. and AFAIK he hasn't touched a combat sim; boxed or otherwise, since.
Puppy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 10-21-2000).]
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I think the people made AWDOS I still remember my first Kill in AW..He is my Wingman now. Yes it was HiTech and very shortly there after we both Joined the Gunfighters and made it a point to piss off Fencer (I know some of you remember Him)
I also remember HT saying "Hell I could write better Code than this" Just look at where we are today.
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!!! Heater !!!
(http://www.geocities.com/heater_nl/_private/heater1.jpg)
Shit Happens All The Time
"If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."
[This message has been edited by Heater (edited 10-21-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Heater (edited 10-21-2000).]
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WD...
What a trip....I had forgot all about cactus.org (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I need to stop thinking about AWDOS, I'm beginning to miss it too much, or at least the fun of it.
Maybe HTC will figure out the ingredient for bringing back that long lost feeling....I suspect it is something relatively simple and would have nothing to do with the latest greatest terrain or FM etc. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm Out!
Ice
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when i started it had gone to 2 bucks an hour. I don't know what version it was and I don't have the software but I do have the floppies of the first 500 or so kills I made.. I used to watch em in the morning with coffee and i really missed that when I went to WB. I also recall that... besides not having many (any?) dipshits like eye... It had no killshooter... when someone shot down a countryman... the would apolodgize profusely! try to have an online sim these days without killshooter.
lazs
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just started playing aw after it went to windows format. best thing was community, friends and foes alike seemed to have respect for one another. also, was the only game in town. Not much trash talking, just flying and having fun. first real flight sim on-line and we all loved it. Learned to fly at B85 <G>
aw3 was allowed to stagnate, no further developments but changes in maps. hit bubbles etc and flight modeling were changed for a short time, but a howl came up through the community about the hit bubble, then back to same old thing. Flight modeling was at best marginal, and planes like the P51 and P47 were left in their hangars. Head ons from the PJ were rediculous, and a B-17 out turning a spit at 24K ruined the game. But the friends we all made playing aw will last forever. I still keep in touch with my old squaddies. and enjoyed the 2000 con at indy.
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Actually, I always thought Aces High felt a lot like AirWarrior DOS.
The planeset is similar (mid-late 1944)
The community is small enough where everyone can get to know each other.
There is a limited number of planes, but a good prospect for new ones to be added/modified.
HTC and Kesmai both payed attention to what happened in the game, and modified it accordingly (but HTC is better).
It has that same "new" feeling.
The main differences, IMO, are the "killshooter" and the use of a single arena for all planes, rather than a euro-pac arena rotation.
And the trashtalking--but that isn't common only to AH. It is becomming more common across the board (not a good sign).
Oh yeah....and no SCAVENGER <sob>
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by Wardog:
Snoopi
AW DOS came out in 1986 with a CGA Front End.It was the 1st online air combat sim.
then AW4W, AW2, AW3. All of them use the outdated AW DOS FM, Damage modeling and ballistic. Out of all the AW programs, AW DOS was the best for me..
Dog out..
Yup I knew that.
Sorry my post sucked.
I meant to say the 1st online combat flight sim I tried was AW2.
Before that I flew only offline..starting with Sublogic's Flight Simulator on a 5.25" single sided floppy.
I bought it in 1978 for my Apple II If my memory is right (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
lol man that was a long time ago.
Just realized it may have been on my TRS-80
which I had before the Apple II.
Anyone have a better memory ?
[This message has been edited by Snoopi (edited 10-23-2000).]
-
I found this and though it might be a nice trip down memory lane for many of you. I never flew AW DOS. Heck, I only "found" AW in 92 or 93 and then I never had any means to connect online so what little I did was offline. Same with the original CK/WB's.
Anyway...as your name is called out, please step forward and be recognized..... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Westy
=================================
Category 6, Topic 16
Message 269 Sat Jan 30, 1993
MSMILLER [DoKtOr GoNzO] at 16:32 EST
OK lookit ... I wanted to stay out of this damn RT for a while and get
back to normal life but this is nuts. I lost track of what all was
decided about numbers of inductees as I scrolled through all this mess,
but until we clean up ancient history the HoF simply won't have any
context for who's in and who's out.
I break the people who should go in into three tiers. The first are the
people who really stood out - "legendary" if you will. The second who are
people who made contributions beyond that of being an individual or just
plain stood out for some reason. The third tier are the aces of old who
were just damn good at what they did. This list will ruffle a few feathers
- like I give a crap. I will provide justification for the names I list as
I go. Some of the comments will surprise people. Rest assured - I still
hate you all quite vehemently. Again - this is mainly folks from the early
days, people like Fencer and Grok and all are a different era - or I just
don't recall them from the first couple years of the game.
In no particular order ...
First Tier
==========
Airmigan - A consistantly great player. Good at everything, always a
threat, always makes positive contributions in RT, fun to fly with.
Tango Circus - The best dogfighter ever. Period. First to break 1600 ELO
(when you could still see people's plane #'s), won a pile of campaigns,
brought taunting to an art form ("Yooooooo hooooooo", "OiNk!", etc.).
Many people flew just to try and kill him. Probably the only person
better in an F/A-26 than me.
Biggles - I won't say anything here except he should go in before half
the other people I've seen nominated.
Flush Garden - The first to really drive energy tactics home. Contributed
numerous help files ("Flush Garden's Goodies") which were very popular in
their day. An unstoppable fighter-bomber pilot. Introduced "HAR!" to the
AW vernacular. An almost telepathic wingman - you didn't need a radio
when you were up with Flush.
Garos - Map-maker to the stars. Probably the first guy to really make
bombers his life in AW. Had a very high mission success rate. Was also a
none-too-shabby fighter pilot (or F/B-25 pilot).
Cap'n Trips - Living proof of "Better killing through chemistry."
Probably one of the ten best ever dogfighters. First to introduce people
to the joys of Zekes on the deck. Author of most of the time-travelling
shenanigans of the early days. An amazing online personality who pushed
the envelope of "what is possible" - much to Kelton's dismay.
Anvil - OK, he works for Kesmai now. Big deal. Anvil was one of the few
people the 4Q had any respect for in the air (some compliment, huh?).
Like Air, Anvil was good at everything. Also had an impact on training
and was one of the better CO's and individual performers in scenarios.
Hides his Dark Side well. Liked beta testing AW so much - he joined the
company.
Blue Macs - One of the masters of the P38 - almost unbeatable in it. Also
did some of the best ever Mac artwork (you think you're looking at a page
out of "The Great Book of WW2 Airplanes") much of which is still in use
today.
Etoile - One of the few people to adopt the Fw before it became so
popular. Endured countless deaths at the hands of more experienced
players but simply would not quit. Ended up building one of the top
squads the game ever saw at a point in time where B and C land were
fielding some of the strongest talent around.
Vermin - One of the top 10 wingmen ever to play. Savagely deadly in a Fw.
Living proof that alcohol and flying _do_ mix. A constant threat in the
air and in the RT. Responsible for adding "two weeks" to the GEnie
vernacular. One of the truly unique personalities in the game - a death
threat is merely Verm's way of saying "howdy."
Mullah - Caught the tail end of the old, old days - Mul is in the same
class as everyone else I listed here. Good at everything, a great touch
for posting nastigrams in the RT, has received enough hate mail from
CLODs and SysOafs to be a 4Q. Plus, Mul set the standard for AW
convention accomodations and one of the more effective online personas.
Vyper/Ghost Rider - Before he was GR, we all knew him as Vyper. GR has
been damn good for a long time and eventually formed a his DFA squad
after bouncing around C-land for a long damn time. A dominant personality
in the game. I think GR has the highest ELO every recorded as well.
Second Tier
===========
Nick Bigrod - The top ace for much of the early going. A very cautious
flyer back before anyone was very cautious.
715 - This dude belongs if for no other reason than he has survived so
long and adapted to all the changes he's seen.
Illwind - A very good flyer who, like many old fartz, just plays goofy
now. Illwind also contributed some awesome Amiga art (so I've been
told - I'm on a Mac, so have never seen it).
Sloth - Has made contributions in so many ways but I still place Garos a
bit higher in the pecking order of in-air threats for mud-masher types
(sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em).
STUser - For doing the 1st AW Convention, lots of RT and other
contributions, and being a generally likeable dweeb. Budman was a better
pilot, but STUser was much more of a presence. (Besides, Bud probably
hasn't had reason to hate me in a while - this should do it.)
Lady In Red - The first lady to play the game - the premiere bomber
gunner. I have yet to see anyone better. I remember when she first
started playing - you could almost smell the glandular action of all the
repressed male dweebs out there. Became a semi-decent pilot despite some
initial "help" from DB.
Lufberry - For a dweeb, he did start the first large super-organized
squad in the game. Until the GF's, squads were much more like
fraternities - or gangs in some cases - like the 4Q. The GF's changed
that and squads became quite serious business for a while there.
Pursuader - Led the first all-bomber squadron in the game (as far as I
can recall, at least). For a while the 99th had an incredible impact on
how all countries operated since it proved that an effective bomber squad
was a points factory.
RidgeRunner - RR was the man to beat in the first 3 or 4 months of the
game. Did some great Mac artwork. Don't matter that he's with Kesmai now
(or that he too hates me), he was a player first.
Ptero - Started the Damned - probably the first large successful squad to
come out of C-land since the 4Q. What is impressive about this was that
he formed the squad while the 4Q, FC, and JV-44 were all still strong
squads on the opposing countries.
Volstag - gotta have him. The 'Stag seems to have been around forever and
is one of the more colorful people in the game. If he ever took this game
serious, he'd win campaigns and stuff - and have to kick himself out of
his own squad.
Third Tier
==========
Shoestring, Pax, Sub Commander Tau, LT-X - Some of the best dogfighters
from the early days. Tau was killer in WW1. Shoe was one of the best ever
stallfighters. LT-X was obnoxious enough to be a 4Q, but didn't stick
around long enough to accept The Dark Side. Pax was just plain good.
Leon, Col. Hugmuk - Two of the best high-altitude threats ever.
Topper, Undead Fred, Bader, Last Dance, Cap'n Bludd, Quagmire, Dave,
Hannibal - Great dogfighters - the kind of folks you check to see if
they're online before you take off.
JW - One of the more vocal GF's (the orginal GF's). A very good
low-altitude dogfighter. Introduced ELO scoring to the AW universe -
which could make him to the only person to be elected to both the Hall of
Fame and the Hall of Shame.
----------
Now, I'm sure I left a few people out from the first couple years. I put
this list together last nite from memory while I was out on the town (or as
close as it gets here in Scummyvale).
So will you people do this right already so I don't have to keep reading
this crap.
-DoK
------------
-
Where on earth did you find this and is there more? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
-
When I started playing all I saw were 'gray' aircraft with stick bodies, and I loved it!. I didn't know that if you could free an unbeliveiable 8k of memory you'd see the art work (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I used to love the A-26. 'Sniff.....'
Otto 2719
------------------
Otto CO (http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/Intro.htm)
111th Fighter Group (http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/)
-
Ice, I've got about 3 meg of the old Genie boards from 92-93. It's all text. I can zip it up and forward it on from work tommorow if you're interested. "Holmes" had saved it and posted it up on his webs ite for a few years. I grabbed the two files from his there before it disappeared about a year ago.
-Westy
-
Hehe DOS AW was the "Mother Country."
You felt like you were part of a secret society, you KNEW you were flying the best computer flight model available (a scary thought now, but unquestionably true then), and you also KNEW you could clean the clock of pretty much anyone whose main claim-to-fame was that they could win all the missions in Aces of the Pacific (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) And at the same time you knew that even being better than 99% of the guys who were "good at flight sims" put you no higher than "average" in the ranks of the guys you were fighting.
The bulletin boards were about 60% tips, tweaks, and actual discussion of the subject of air combat, 20% humor (and there were some masters at it) and only 20% of the antagonism that constitutes, oh, 80% on the boards nowadays. And of course you had to practically be a rocket scientist to even FIND the boards in the first place. Aladdin, hehehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Beyond that, it's kinda hard to actually explain it. I know I liked the idea of being part of something that was definitely NOT "trendy" but was a heckuva a lot cooler than almost everything that WAS.
"Air Warrior"--the name kinda captures the essence of it.
------------------
-
Jedi:"You felt like you were part of a secret society, you KNEW you were flying the best computer flight model available"
Kinda like that way on AGW now ain't it?
<G,D,R>
-
Westy...
Send away....I'de like to take a trip back in time if ya don't mind (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thanks
Ice
ohw@swbell.net
[This message has been edited by Ice (edited 10-25-2000).]
-
Once again Rip, in his never-ending quest to promote flightsim community harmony, drags the WB-AH "feud" into someplace it has no business being (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Now back to our trip down memory lane...
------------------
-
On it's way already ICE. And here is something a little more modern, about two years old, from Jonathan "BB" or "Blue" Baron. You see? Up to about a year or two ago you old AW DOS folks were like Cod's to many of us newer people. We sort of being like sports enthusiasts and learning about the stars of the various teams from the olden days. So we asked alot of questions of those who had "been there and done that" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Sorry to say these days most of the minions in AW are clueless to the heritage beyond AOL in 1995-96. Maybe it's just as well...
=======================
> Please excuse my ignorance of the early days of AW,
> but could some of you Vets do your best to fill me in on how
> those days were in comparison to now? ....
Having seen the game develop over more than ten years I understand the
temptation to anoint earlier eras as "the good old days" or "the golden age"
of this or that. My view is not so sentimental, though.
In the early days online gaming was text based. Air Warrior was the first
online game that was fully graphical. Yes, other games had graphical
interfaces (usually developed by the players), but they simply overlaid the
text based system. Sometimes we'd develop graphical interfaces for our text
games (Stellar Emperor for example), but most veterans stuck with their
terminal emulators. Air Warrior was different in this, and so many aspects,
but it arrived in absolute obscurity. What gaming press there was had no
clue about this esoteric pastime. Very few people were online. Thus part
of what made Air Warrior seem so special back then is that we all knew that
we were onto something, years before anyone else was.
But that was really a very small part. It wasn't just that we were
discovering something before the masses did, it was that there were so few
of us - no more than 10 or 20 souls each night - and thus we got to know one
another very well indeed. You could tell, just from the behavior of a dot
far away, who everyone was. New players were rare, and the development of
relationships among players was a long, evolving process.
The fundamental change to the game took place in the winter of '92, with the
release of SVGA AW. At the '92 Con that year in Los Angeles, veterans were
already bemoaning the loss of their game. "We won't matter anymore," one of
them said in an unguarded moment. "But we'll be like gods to them!" I said,
kidding. All of us knew better.
For a box game market, completely unfamiliar with any concept of anything
having come before the moment they ripped the shrink wrap off their shinny
new game boxes, the very notion of a tradition in computer gaming, much less
one that spanned years, was alien. One customer even accused me of making
up the quotes from players that I put in the manual. Another asked me why
the hell did I think he'd be interested in stuff said by guys he never saw
up in the game. Although it hadn't happened overnight, the new guard
displaced the old. Many of us thought it would be fun to kill the "ten
THOUsand dweebs" but it lost its charm quickly, and the social dynamics of
the arena had been forever altered.
SVGA AW was the first box sim to model departure from controlled flight, but
we didn't offer this feature online. So called realism was not all the rage
back then. Computer Gaming World, in their review said, "With its realistic
flight model, Air Warrior is not an adventure, it's a job." Thus Kesmai was
reluctant to enable it online. The vocal players - the ones posting on the
GEnie BBS - started the chant, "Throw the switch!" Meanwhile Kelton created
a separate development: the real time packet. Previously, Air Warrior had
run at half speed, even though your gauges showed full speed. This was a
concession to networks of the day. Real time added another "realism"
factor, separating further the game play of earlier and later AW. When they
finally added a full realism arena, they did something inexplicable - they
ran it in half time, but added half time rolls. The reasoning was odd.
One way Air Warrior disguised the fact that it was running in half time was
by having aircraft roll in real time. In the realism arena, the thinking
was that everything should be realistic. Thus the roll rate should match
the overall time scale. This made the realism arena anything but realistic.
Finally all the screamers got what they asked for - real time, full
realism. The majority stayed in half time. The community, already altered
by the box release, was now split in two. Squads split up over this, and
many old timers still hanging on left the game.
It's difficult to second guess all of this. Air Warrior had been a
financial loser. Kesmai made its money from other games. The game had to
reach out to a larger audience, or die. By reaching out, in a sense it died
as well.
Yet, if you paid attention you saw that the game was anything but dead. New
players made dumb mistakes, got better, made friends, developed rivalries,
formed squadrons, and got to know people that they otherwise never would
have. They found kindred spirits, people to "hate," people to respect, and
people to miss when they were gone. These are constants to this game. When
we moved it to AOL - again out of pure survival - the cycle repeated. Same
for GS, same for AWII, AWIII.
None of us has any idea when we're fooling around in the simulated skies
just how important the relationships we're developing are. The bonds we
develop with one another happen insidiously and, despite all the explosions
going on around us in the game, quietly. None of us has any idea just how
much we'll miss those guys we flew with after they're gone. The human heart
can't tell the difference between virtual and face to fact worlds. Shared
emotion bonds people, no matter where or how that emotion takes place.
Thus, there is only one golden age - the time when YOU first learned the
game, and played it for long hours every day or every week. Each of us has
his own good old days. And for each, they were just as good.
And for the so-called veteran who complains to me how my latest release
killed the game he loved, I can say, "Yes, and you killed the game I loved.
You and your kind chased away all my buddies seven years ago." In both
cases the accusation is unfair. That's another thing all players from all
eras share: the good old days can never last forever. Enjoy yours while you
have them. Remember them fondly when they're over. In either case you are
experiencing or have experienced something evermore rare in this world.
BB ( aka Jonathan Baron)
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-25-2000).]
-
Originally posted by jedi:
Once again Rip, in his never-ending quest to promote flightsim community harmony, drags the WB-AH "feud" into someplace it has no business being (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
You've been quite a contributor as well young Jedi. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Rips,
I am going to SNIPER YOU! :|
-Westy
-
I think I found a gem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
=========================
Category 3, Topic 18
Message 100 Sun Jan 24, 1993
BLUEBARON [<- Librarian] at 14:10 EST
Actually, Killer, there soon will be an alternative <clears throat>...
****** COMING SOON TO THE PAGE 870 SOFTWARE LIBRARY ******
Make<->Break
An Art & Sound Editor for SVGA AW and the Regular AW PC FE
Our own Hitech has written the slickest, most powerful, full featured
art and sound editor imaginable and has received permission from Kesmai to
upload this gem to the page 870 software library.
Make/Break is a Windows application that:
1) Breaks an artfile into its component views.
2) Allows you to import any view DIRECTLY into the paint
program that comes with Windows or into DPaint.
3) Converts BMP or LBM files into the format AW recognizes.
4) Checks coverage of art so that you'll know in advance
if a view will be accepted or rejected by AW.
5) Compiles art views into a recognized artfile.
6) Breaks sound files into individual samples.
7) Converts freely between VOC and WAV so that you can
play and edit sounds within Windows.
8) Allows you to edit your dash layout and many of your
individual gauges in SVGA.
This is not some geeky syntax program. Rather, it employs all the
features you'd expect in a Windows environment.
One thing this program will NOT let you do is create glass planes or
what many of us call "cheat art." Thus purpose of Make/Break is allow you to
customize you art and sound, or create completely new art that meets the
standards (in coverage at least (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) of the professional cockpit artwork that
comes with SVGA AW.
No, I'm not getting a commission or anything. I'm just excited that
this is finally happening. For some time I've followed Make/Break's
development and I donated a bit of my time to test it and create an online
help file for this program.
HT is uploading this today. It will take a few days for it to clear.
Look for it later in the week.
Thanks for the cue, Killer-san <g>.
BB
-
I missed the end of AW dos...I flew a bit in the last year but had just started my business (partner in a search firm). Back then figuring how to pay for the raman noodles was a bigger priority than AW...well almost (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). So my immersion didnt come till AW on aol...but many of the old hands still flew AW. To me it was the most outstanding bunch of folks I'd ever met. The AW "code" was deeply entrenched and was enforced ruthlessly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...I'd say it took a good year for the game to begin to degenerate. But back then, vulching (cept "squad stuff") was almost unheard of. 4th man stayed hi 90% of time...meaning a 1 on 1 went to a 1 on 2...but stopped there. Most pilots gave a 2500 ft climb of a capped field...now this wasnt constant...but furballs were a rare animal early on...a lot more dogfighting or limited stuff...hard to find 8-10 guys in same sector then.
-
Originally posted by Westy:
I think I found a gem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
Yep, but that was nothing compared to his other utility for AWDOS VFilm!! That was the best film viewer AW ever had. It still hasn't been matched in AW, or AH.
I enjoy watching the films almost as much as the flying, so I'm hoping HT will do it again... For AH this time of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Badboy
-
Westy thanx for the trip down memory lane...Allthou i entered the AW scene late 94' I sure do miss the reads in bigweek, and the reads on Scavenger's post. Westy do you have one? please post it.... i'll read it, kick up my feet, close my eyes and dream of the past.
NUTTZ
-
Here is all of Scav's "Greats"
http://www.concentric.net/~espottke/scav/index.html (http://www.concentric.net/~espottke/scav/index.html)
I'll try and find a good nugget from the "archives" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I miss BW too. It's different now. I don't belong that's for sure. It became so rare to find any talk about WWII fightsims and WWII aircract/aircombat talk the last year or so. I left, for more, my sanity and that of the folks there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
I thin I know where a copy of Vfilm is Badz (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I'l grab a copy for posterity!
-Westy
p.s. It's a shame I have no idea how to archive UBB forumns. I have a chunk of Genie as well as the AW nntp BigWeek boards. But WB's and AH? No idea how to save the history (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) At least the WB's community went further than any others as they have the WB's book. (have my own copy)
How about a few quotes from the Tao of Dok? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-14-2000).]
-
Again Westy....thanks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ice
-
Originally posted by Zigrat:
U guys are old
but i remember my first computer game ever, it was aces of the pacific, i loved that game. I still remember how fun to divebomb the jap carriers at midway in my trusty dauntless. and there was supposed to be a multiplay addon for it but they never made it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Sorry this is slightly OT but:
Finally someone mentioned my favourite game ever: Aces of the Pacific. Still play it occasionally for the fun of it.
AH is my first online flight sim but I've been playing boxed sims ever since I got my 8086 PC back in '89. First sim: Chuck Yeager's Flight Simulator.
-
Westy.....nice werk and <<S>>
-
Still remember being in the local
Atari store and finding a shareware disk for $3 with something called Air Warrior on it. Go on line? What's that? GEnie? Where's that?
And that first incredible realization that other PEOPLE are flying those little stick planes around the screen. What a rush!
But I sure don't miss the $13 an hour it cost ($6 AW and $7 an hour local long distance to reach nearest GEnie phone access).
Eventually joined Fencer's famous WarHawks and eventually found how, ironically, it wasn't much fun when any one squad finally got so large it could cruise around blasting everything largely unopposed.
An early lesson in numbers usually prevailing.
Never saw much more about Fencer after he got married (gee, wives need attention too?). Split, the deputy commander, still leads the small WarHawks squad in WarBirds. I've carried the WH torch to AH but so far can't get any of the others to come here permanently from WB, especially with no Mac for Split.
The growing international contingent here and in WB is terrific. But I've always worried about too much re-creation of WWII into allies and axis, so I'm glad AH, at least for the moment, is focused on politically neutral countries like the three pawn pieces with all aircraft and vehicles available to all.
Of course that's the way WB started, but lately WB users are ignoring its politically neutral Main Arena to focus on WWII progression with historically accurate plane sets changing every week. Sounds great, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to keep considering oneself as allied or axis. It also can get tiresome and predictable as various planes dominate various periods.
AH absolutely dazzles me with its thoroughness and innovations. I rarely play anything else -- can't imagine a more ultimate challenge and involvement.
And at a great flat rate. Our cup runneth over. Salutes to Air Warrior for starting it all, WB to improving it, and AH for honing the leading edge.