Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: lord dolf vader on March 31, 2003, 11:21:44 AM
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had toad chime in with
"You know, I'm on record here as against US aid to Israel. But if I post on it, I try to use facts
Do you EVER check your statements for truth?
Or is any lie justified in the pursuit of your current agenda?
First it was $5 million dollar cruise missiles that actually cost $500,000.
Now you're misrepresenting aid to Israeal by double.
From the Christian Science Monitor: quote:
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Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. It is already due to get $2.04 billion in military assistance and $720 million in economic aid in fiscal 2003. It has been getting $3 billion a year for years.
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And, as I said, I don't think Israel needs that kind of money from us.
But is sure isn't $6 BILLION they're getting."
well toad i wont call YOU a LIAR but here a site with 12,000,000,000
Yea thats billion with a B in direct assistance and loan guarantees.
sorry i was low by half.
now lay off the charchter assasination as htc has asked for us to
play nice, nice attempt to mask it in ritous indignation :rolleyes:
my cite
http://afr.com/world/2003/01/08/FFX8IEGOMAD.html
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for the agrevation it seems to cost you, I would say the price is worth it.
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Are you from the future too? :eek:
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Excellent Avatar, BEAR!!!!
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US needs to distance itself from Isreal. Both financialy and militarily.
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Israel has been the only friend we've had in the Middle East since the Shah was deposed in Iran, at least until we reconquered Kuwait and saved Saudi Arabia in Desert Storm.
Then again, Israeli terrorists killed British troops during the British occupation of Palestine. I think that whole region is one big blender of desperation and death.
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Jeez... I just don't know what to say.
Do you EVER read those sites?
Look at what you just linked:
A delegation from Israel, the largest recipient of US foreign aid, has sought $US12 billion ($21 billion) in assistance at a meeting with State Department and White House officials, Israeli officials said.
The request, covering the next three to five years[/b], exceeds the total $US11.6 billion budgeted last year by the US for all countries.
The request is to help Israel weather the Palestinian uprising and a possible US war with Iraq.
Now, let's walk through this.
"A delegation from Israel has requested"
The Israelis came here with their hands out.
"sought $US12 billion "
Well, at least you did get that number out of it. They ASKED the US for $12 Billion.
"The request, covering the next three to five years"
OK.. elementary math...
If they actually GET what they asked for (and asking and getting are two very different things as I think we'll all agree):
$12 billion divided by 3 years = $4 Billion a year
$12 billion divided by 5 years = $2.4 Billion a year.
In OTHER WORDS, VERY VERY CLOSE TO THE $3 BILLION THEY"VE BEEN GETTING FROM US FOR YEARS.
simply..... NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
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RECAP:
The Israelis came and ASKED for $12 billion to be given to them over the next 3-5 years.
IF they get what they asked for that would be NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGE from what we give them right now.
Clear enough?
As to calling you a liar, I apologize. That's an overstatement perhaps.
You are just the most eager person to used obviously incorrect and unresearched numbers to prove your point that I know of currently posting on the BBS.
How's that?
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It is more true to say we are Israels only friend, the reciprocal is not always the case.
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I wonder who, after Israel, gets the most US money? Could it be...Egypt?
...Egypt receives $2.1 billion in U.S. assistance per year, making it the second largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid after Israel.
From the Washington Times (http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/01072002-085826-9152r.htm)
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Pure and simple we will always give large to Israel.
because Jesus was a Jew!!
I know I know you think I'm nuts but thats the real reason for our aid to Israel.
We being a Cristian country will always protect Israel.
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point is i shot low, you jumped me for being hi.
you cast dispersion on my character (did a whole bunch of study on isreals beggin for handouts.) tried to find the original post from months ago but cant. that is where the 6 bill figure came from.
i was off on the price of a missile. sorry they told us they cost 5 mill on the ship i was on where they were stocked, and they probly did cost 5 mill . cant find any evidence to the fact they were 5 mill so i backed off. sudenly you have a way to criticise so you start the ol assasination machine.
BUT and its a big but , in the instance you jumped me on you are wrong.
just face it toad you got called, on being called and were wrong
aint it a squeak.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
now lay off the charchter assasination as htc has asked for us to
play nice, nice attempt to mask it in ritous indignation :rolleyes:
http://afr.com/world/2003/01/08/FFX8IEGOMAD.html
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
dont include me in your "we" pinhead
Pot, this is kettle, copy?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Pot, this is kettle, copy?
Kettle, this is pot, youre black, over.
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lord dolph vader:
point is i shot low, you jumped me for being hi.
You DID NOT "shoot low". You said we give them $6 billion a year. The truth is that they usually average about $3 Billion a year and have for quite some time. Note that I agree they get way too much, btw.
Here's what you said in the "Israel will prevail" thread:
LDV
who cares we only contribute 6 bill or so a year to the semetic thocracy. what a deal with all the stability they lend to the situation
Clearly, you are saying we contribute $6 Billion per year to Israel, or do you deny that?
Then you post a link here that CLEARLY shows your reference to be merely an Israeli request, not an award by the US government and not anywhere near $6 Billion.
Here's what you started this thread with.
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
well toad i wont call YOU a LIAR but here a site with 12,000,000,000
Yea thats billion with a B in direct assistance and loan guarantees.
sorry i was low by half.
now lay off the charchter assasination as htc has asked for us to
play nice, nice attempt to mask it in ritous indignation :rolleyes:
my cite
http://afr.com/world/2003/01/08/FFX8IEGOMAD.html
Your problem is that you skipped right over this fact on YOUR OWN REFERENCE.
This is from YOUR reference... YOUR REFERENCE:
A delegation from Israel... has sought $US12 billion ($21 billion) in assistance at a meeting with State Department and White House officials...
The request, covering the next three to five years[/u][/color],
So you see, the $12 Billion is the requested total for 3-5 years.
The math, as I said runs out like this:
$12 billion divided by 3 years = $4 Billion a year
$12 billion divided by 5 years = $2.4 Billion a year
And THAT'S if they get everything they ask for which is unlikely.
Now initially, in the other thread, you posted "$6 billion a year".
You support it here with "$12 billion" a correct figure for the request not an award but YOU COMPLETELY MISS THE FACT THAT THE REQUEST COVERS 3-5 YEARS WITH THE RESULTANT TOTAL BETWEEN $2.4 - 4 BILLION PER YEAR.
So you were NOT low... you were way HIGH. ON the order of 2X. As I pointed out.
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
i was off on the price of a missile.
IMO, you post more incorrect information trying to support your opinions than anyone else I'm aware of on this board.
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
BUT and its a big but , in the instance you jumped me on you are wrong.
See above. It's as clear as I can make it.
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
just face it toad you got called, on being called and were wrong
See above. It's as clear as I can make it.
Oh... btw... you're wrong again now.
Toodle-pip.
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Originally posted by Yeager
US needs to distance itself from Isreal. Both financialy and militarily.
Never happen.
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Originally posted by rc51
Pure and simple we will always give large to Israel.
because Jesus was a Jew!!
I know I know you think I'm nuts but thats the real reason for our aid to Israel.
We being a Cristian country will always protect Israel.
you hit the reason on the head.
The bible warns against not being allied with Israel.
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Someone is using the Christian Science Monitor as a source of facts?
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How about allowing all the willing israelis to immigrate into US? And the willing palestinians. Let the rest kill each other if theyw ant. At worst we will get about 8 million smart educated hardworking taxpayers.
That's help, right. Isn't it more christian to share one's house with a friend than buy him bullets but not let him in?
miko
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Lets be fair and talk about the $$$ the US spends on the Arab countries. Israel isnt the only beneficiaries of US dollars, military
presence etc.
Egypt receives around $2 billion of America’s $14-billion annual foreign aid
budget, in large part as payment for making peace with Israel. Of that,
about $1.3 billion goes to military assistance. Only Israel receives more
U.S. aid than Egypt. Saudi Arabia, meanwhile, does not receive economic or
military aid but is protected from foreign attack by American troops
stationed in the Gulf. Moreover, in 2001-2, America approved $2.7 billion in
foreign military sales to Saudi Arabia, making up approximately 10 percent
of Saudi Arabia’s defense budget.
http://www.mideastinsight.org/5_00/zuza.html
--
Lew/+Silat
Christian: One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely
inspired book that is admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his
neighbor.
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Well, Towd?
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Originally posted by X2Lee
you hit the reason on the head.
The bible warns against not being allied with Israel.
Any country that practices pragmatic geopolitics based on a religious text is insane. That sounds like something the Taliban would have done.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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You must be real popular on Wed. nites down there in NC, Levi.
Get many requests to speak before the Congregations?
;)
Still remember that my baseball team couldn't practice on Wed. nite South of Atlanta. I called practice for Wed and the parents just stared at me like I was from... up Nawth or sumpin'.
One kindly soul took me aside and explained it to the heathen.
Had a good time down there though.
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Originally posted by Toad
You must be real popular on Wed. nites down there in NC, Levi.
hehe It's not that I dislike religion, mind you, but if you're going to base foreign policy decisions solely on scripture, you're going to be in some serious trouble. Geopolitics requires pragmatism and self-interest. If we give aid to Israel, I can guarantee that its impetus and its continuation benefit the United States in some strategic manner that goes beyond religion.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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It's most likely that Israel cost you the WTC two towers.
I don't think Al-Khaeda considered that as more than a down-payment.
I'm sure that a large part of the hate your government is receiving from the arabs is clearly related to the $14/year/citizen support you're giving to Israel.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
It's most likely that Israel cost you the WTC two towers.
[/b]
I doubt that. While Israel might be the excuse, I don't think it's the reason.
I'm sure that a large part of the hate your government is receiving from the arabs is clearly related to the $14/year/citizen support you're giving to Israel.
Perhaps you're forgetting the support the United States gave to numerous Middle Eastern regimes after World War II including Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and more. The goal wasn't to exclusively aid Israel, it was to create a Middle East that was hostile to the Soviet Union (and that provided unfettered Western access to oil). The United States didn't aid Afghanistan in the 1980s out of sentimentality or because of Biblical scripture; it did so because it imposed serious economic and military costs on the Soviet Union that benefitted the United States in the Cold War.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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lord dolph vader:
BUT and its a big but , in the instance you jumped me on you are wrong.
just face it toad you got called, on being called and were wrong
Well, Towd?
Who was wrong? Cat got your tongue?
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Do we get anything in return?
Just Curious.
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LDV or towd or whoever you are this week.... maybe you can explain something that has allways bothered me about liberal lefties... Why is it that simply being caught in a bold faced lie.... one that is the very premise of their speech... doesn't seem to make their point any less valid in their mind? That would go a long way towards explaining you, and michael moore to me.
thanks
lazs
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Originally posted by Swag Abroad
Do we get anything in return?
You'd have to ask the American government that for a definitive answer. Just going off the top of my head, however, I can think of a few reasons why the United States supports Israel. First, Israel provides excellent intelligence on countries within the region. Also, the United States may use them as a proxy for military action where it doesn't want to get its hands dirty (i.e. knocking out Iraqi nuclear reactors, a mutually beneficial action). Plus Israel serves as a real testbed for military technology, and they provide innovative feedback on hardware improvements (such as strengthening the armor on Bradleys to protect against machine gun fire). And beyond that, Israel is the only ostensible democracy in the entire region.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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quote:
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lord dolph vader:
BUT and its a big but , in the instance you jumped me on you are wrong.
just face it toad you got called, on being called and were wrong
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Well, Towd?
Who was wrong? Cat got your tongue?
Lose interest in the thread YOU started?
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Do you think LDV really believes the stuff he posts?
Do you really think he will come here and admit he was wrong? lol?
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Some smart folks say the jews have taken over our government.
Sometimes I wonder.
I just want to be free from religion, or to pursue it if I choose. I dont want my tax money to support any religion. I can donate it freely if I choose.
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What brain dead blind idiot could possibly consider Israel 'our friend'..
..besides a jew?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Do you think LDV really believes the stuff he posts?
Do you really think he will come here and admit he was wrong? lol?
Hey, he was the agressor here. He didn't wait to get UN SC sanction on his attack either. I'm merely defending myself and using the media to get my story out to the world.
I think the evidence shows I'm not guilty of the charges he made against me and thus he's guilty of unbridled agression.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Any country that practices pragmatic geopolitics based on a religious text is insane. That sounds like something the Taliban would have done.
-- Todd/Leviathn
well are you saying america is insane or I am wrong?
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ad i read it its a aditional request towd do the math add what we normaly give um
3 to 4 billion
plus 12 biillion in loans and direct aid on top of that.
12/5= 2.4 bill or so a year on top of what we gave befor bushes holy war um that was
3.5 or so bill a year right averaged out.
add it up and you get
5.9 billion a year
and yep your a character assasinating jerk toad.
find your next mark.
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worth every dollar!!
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Originally posted by X2Lee
well are you saying america is insane or I am wrong?
Based on everything else I've written in this thread... what do you think?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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"... that has allways bothered me about liberal lefties... Why is it that simply being caught in a bold faced lie.... one that is the very premise of their speech... doesn't seem to make their point any less valid in their mind?"
If I spend about 2 minutes digging up 100 examples on this BBS of how this cuts *both* ways, would that make your point any less valid in your mind? :D
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You found me, chum. You started this thread.
As for assassinating your character, the detectives investigated and found that it was purely a suicide.
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how about we look at this rationally.. and not look at it from either the arab viewpoint, or the israli viewpoint or the palestininan viewpoint.
time we looked at this as AMERICANS.
The place is bedlam.. and all sides are capable of doing america harm.. in fact, the arab world holds the US responsibel for all the sins of the middle east, regardless; due to our unfettered support of israel.
israel, don'tca know, happily jerk us around on aid packages, milking the congress and popular support while they deploy mossad intellegence assets right here. and these guys are targeting our military as well as commercial secrets. they attack us, (USS Liberty), they steal from us, they sell our technology to our adversarys.
they make france look like the incompetent amatures they actually are.
They are not americas 'friend' in the middle east, or anywhere else.
In fact, if your against terrorisim and are ashamed of the ground roots support shown by this countrys irish/american and catholic support for the IRA, you ought to be sickened by what the jewish communitys support for isreal has cost in us in credibility in the eyes of the arab world.
you ever wonder why england is such a staunch ally NOW.. after 25 years of so-sp relations? Our public 'waking up' and cutting off the money to the IRA with both government help and a 're-education' process of our body politic.
As Americans concerned about the path the middle east is headed down, as Americans with a vested intrest in ending the root causes for terror while we stamp out it's militant practitioners we MUST re-evaluate our policy regarding Israel.
Isreal MUST be brought to it's senses. there MUST be accomodation with the oslo accords, there MUST be a palestinian state, the holy sites in the holy land of Islam, Christianity and Judeasim MUST be brought under international control and proctection.
you may now return to your delusional historic masturbation.
;)
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Agreed. I'd cut 'em off totally until THEY comply with the UN SC resolutions against THEIR actions.
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Ask them to comply with the UN SC resolutions? What a novel idea! If that doesn't work maybe you could just ask them nicely? hehe
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cut the money off.
it's past sanction time.
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Nash, if there's one thing I'm sure of...... they understand money. Sweet words of wisdom? No way. Cut off the bucks? You have their complete attention. ;)
Besides, I'm sure the French would push through an SC resolution authorizing themselves, the Germans, the Russians and the Chinese to use force if we stood aside.
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Besides, I'm sure the French would push through an SC resolution authorizing themselves, the Germans, the Russians and the Chinese to use force if we stood aside.
oh, that WOULD be a fun war to watch!
20 bucks on the chinaman, in long rounds.