Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: blur on March 31, 2003, 01:51:58 PM
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"We raced along ambush alley at full speed, close to a line of houses. "My driver got hit," said one of the marines who joined us, his face and uniform caked in mud. "I went to try to help him when he got hit by another RPG or a mortar. I don't even know how many friends I have lost. I don't care if they nuke that bloody city now. From one house they were waving while shooting at us with AKs from the next. It was insane."
Excellent first person account.
http://www.counterpunch.org/franchetti03312003.html
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ah, but how many will believe it..
seems like a lot of people just don't want to hear it :(
they only want the 'good' reports from the field
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From the same article:
--Bad news filtered back. Earlier that morning a US Army convoy had been greeted by a group of Iraqis dressed in civilian clothes, apparently wanting to surrender. When the American soldiers stopped, the Iraqis pulled out AK-47s and sprayed the US trucks with gunfire.--
People that resort to this are making it very difficult for their own civilians and soldiers to survive. Of course that is one of their reasons for doing so. That Saddam and his ilk care nothing for the people of Iraq should come as no surprise. Let the blame for unecessary casualties rest where deserved.
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Originally posted by GScholz
You may lay the blame anywhere you want AKIron, but the fact remains; the Iraqi people will not see you as liberators when you litter the landscape with dead civilians. Saddam and his bunch is forcing your hand ... and winning the "hearts and mind" war.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=564&e=25&u=/nm/20030331/ts_nm/iraq_shatra_dc_2
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Originally posted by GScholz
In that town you won. Wtg!
DOH! Is that egg on your face?
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This is exactly why i'm against this war.
Wrong, analysis by politicians "This will be a cakewalk" " They will cheer for as as we are the liberators"
Iraq civilans see their babies die and want revenge supporting guerillatactics against the "Agressors".
American boys seeing their friends die, hate factor kicks in, they kill more civilians because it's hard to distinguisch between civilians and fighters in a guerilla war, more civilians supporting a regime they hate, americans killing more civillians....... :(
Reminds me of Vietnam.
Bloody, wrong war, i hate it .
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
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Originally posted by GScholz
In that town you won. Wtg!
I don't think you understand. The purpose of this campaign isn't to win anyone's heart or mind. It is rather to eliminate a real and sizeable threat. That many will see it as liberation is a side benefit.
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OMG I'm shocked! It's almost like they're having a war or something!
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Let the blame for unecessary casualties rest where deserved.
I was very sad after reading the article, I feel much more now that I've read your reply Iron:(
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I think the people are still terrified of saddam and his gang. He has held that country hostage for 40 years and has raped and dehumanized the people with his security forces who are still around. In fact I dont think this is too dissimilar to how the kidnapped girl elizabeth smart reacted to police when they found her after 9 months, she tried to lie and stay with her kidnapers who even sexually abused her and made ger live on the streets and under bridges instead of returning to her family and million dollar luxury home. Give them time.
And frankly there will be tens of thousands who plainly like saddam and benefit from him or will be killed after the war by their victims who now wanna fight very very much.
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Originally posted by blitz
This is exactly why i'm against this war.
Wrong, analysis by politicians "This will be a cakewalk" " They will cheer for as as we are the liberators"
Iraq civilans see their babies die and want revenge supporting guerillatactics against the "Agressors".
American boys seeing their friends die, hate factor kicks in, they kill more civilians because it's hard to distinguisch between civilians and fighters in a guerilla war, more civilians supporting a regime they hate, americans killing more civillians....... :(
Reminds me of Vietnam.
Bloody, wrong war, i hate it .
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
As Bush said today. We aren't going to let terrorists, nations that support terrorists, or nation's with the predisposition to arm terrorists exist.
You don't have to help us. You don't even have to like it. You can jump around and wave your signs, telling us how horrible we are. All the while enjoying the freedom that we provide. We don't care. Seriously. We could really give a crap less what you think.
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Originally posted by stegor
I was very sad after reading the article, I feel much more now that I've read your reply Iron:(
If I'm understanding you correctly then I'm somehow caloused for blaming Saddam for killing his own people. Are you blaming me and/or the US for pushing Saddam to this?
If so, then perhaps you feel the US is responsible for the millions of deaths in WWII that might not have occured had we let Hitler and Tojo run their course unopposed.
Am I reading this right?
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dont include me in your "we" pinhead
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Originally posted by Martlet
As Bush said today. We aren't going to let terrorists, nations that support terrorists, or nation's with the predisposition to arm terrorists exist.
You don't have to help us. You don't even have to like it. You can jump around and wave your signs, telling us how horrible we are. All the while enjoying the freedom that we provide. We don't care. Seriously. We could really give a crap less what you think.
Sure ya government can give a crap what I think, but it better SHOULD care what the Pope, the churches, The UN, old friends and the majority of people on this planet has to say them.
THEY ARE AGAINST THIS BLOODY WAR AND WANT YOUR GOVERNMENT TO STOP THAT CRAP!
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
dont include me in your "we" pinhead
I doubt there's more than a handful here that would want to be included in a "we" with you.
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I feel sorry for the Marines.
They have looked the lion in the mouth and faced death itself.
I hate that civialians had to die, but that is a part of war.
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Oh yea, this is unbiased reporting....
Amid the wreckage I counted 12 dead civilians, lying in the road or in nearby ditches. All had been trying to leave this southern town overnight, probably for fear of being killed by US helicopter attacks and heavy artillery.
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SADDAM HATES THIS WAR ..STOP IT STOPIT, and also stop giving food and water to the people, it's makes saddam look bad.
saddam, the light of islam
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Originally posted by GScholz
Btw. AKIron, what unit are you guys flying in Guadalcanal?
The 24th Hikotai. Hope you join us.
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Originally posted by blitz
Sure ya government can give a crap what I think, but it better SHOULD care what the Pope, the churches, The UN, old friends and the majority of people on this planet has to say them.
THEY ARE AGAINST THIS BLOODY WAR AND WANT YOUR GOVERNMENT TO STOP THAT CRAP!
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
Nope, we could care less about:
Pope, churches, UN, or majority of people on the planet. Our friends we care about, but they are with us, and not selling arms to Iraq.
Except for lord darth vader. I'm not sure where he's from, but he isn't included in us or we. Since I was obviously talking about the US, I'm assuming he's from there. Or retarded.
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Originally posted by blitz
This is exactly why i'm against this war.
Wrong, analysis by politicians "This will be a cakewalk" " They will cheer for as as we are the liberators"
President Bush nor any of the other key players never said this war would be a "cakewalk." Quite the opposite, almost every time he has been on TV, he reminds the country that this war will be long and difficult.
Its the media that has injected this "cakewalk war" into the minds of everyone.
The war will not be easy - but lets blame the right people for stating it will be.
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Sure ya government can give a crap what I think, but it better SHOULD care what the Pope, the churches, The UN, old friends and the majority of people on this planet has to say them.
LOL the pope? churches? egads man! Old friends? Where did they go when it came time to carry out the resolution everyone so heartly agreed upon. They ran scared, like a bunch of old women, they left us holding the bag. Funny thing is those old friends who ran away under a banner with UN written on it thinking it could hide their cowardice will be first in line for a hand out and dictating how to divide the spoils of war, a war they were afraid to help with.
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Not to mention the Pope and church is far to busy trying to cover up their child molesting priests to worry about us ridding the world of a brutal dictator.
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If I'm understanding you correctly then I'm somehow caloused for blaming Saddam for killing his own people. Are you blaming me and/or the US for pushing Saddam to this?
If so, then perhaps you feel the US is responsible for the millions of deaths in WWII that might not have occured had we let Hitler and Tojo run their course unopposed.
Am I reading this right?
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Nothing of what you wrote.
I feel sad cause I think that "unnecessary casualties" are horrible, where for that or "collateral damages" I mean innocent people dying, as well young smiling boys forced to become bloody killers to defend their own life, and I think those things dont need to "rest where deserved" but have to be strongly considered.
Far from me the idea of excusing Sadam or others, I think anyone can or not support this war as better one thinks, but we can show a bit of human feelings anyway
:)
Sorry if I misunderstood your words, as if I didnt catch well yours; its not easy for me to explain such concepts in a language thats not my first one maybe
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If Saddam were to stay in power, eventually die and pass the terror reigns on to his putrid sons, do you really think the Iraqis would be better off to suffer terror for generations rather than to suffer this war and its tragedies now?
To suffer now, get it over and try to improve their lot as a people seems to make sense to me. But the European and vegetarian perspective appears to be "screw the Iraqis, let em bleed slow. They are not a concern of we free nations".
Ashamed of you dolts. Shame!
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The Pope was also against the 911 war in Afghanitan.... It's what he does,
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BTW trust nothing from http://www.counterpunch.org its has always been a blame america firsts USA hating pice of trash. Every article ever written on it has only shown the USA in a bad light. They too were against the Afghan war and also called it an illegal im,erialits blah blah oil cheney whatever war. Its what they do.
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Blitz how many Iraqi civilians has Saddam killed?
Research the UN estimates of the number of dead Iraqi civilians over the past 12 while under Saddams rule.
Research the UN estimates for the number of expected Iraqi civilians deaths over the next 12 years if things remained as they were before the war.
Then go research gulf 1 and look up the number of civilian deaths caused by the allied forces then.
Now research the number of civilians deaths attributed to the coalition so far.
Then tell us who the "humanitarians" are.
You are a blinded hypocrit that is so anti-Bush its pathetic. Regardless of what you think the motives are for this war the fact is the faster the world gets rid of Saddam the fewer Iraqi civilians casulties there will be.
If you are "concerned" for human life and a real "humanitarian" then thing you should support is Regime change in Iraq.
Look up those numbers up before you reply. I could quote umm but I am sure you would say its "propaganda". If you cared 1 bit about Iraqi civilians you would support getting rid of Saddam.
All your anti-American Bush hating has clouded your view of the reality of the conditions in Iraq.
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So which is it Blitz?
Blitz quote: "You go there as Aggressors without UN permission and 12 years of Un sanctions with 1,5 million iraq people dying didn't help much to win their hearts. "
Blitz quote:"This is exactly why i'm against this war."
By your estimates, over 100,000 people a year are dying in Iraq. So, if you are against the war, you must be in favor of us staying out of Iraq, which in turn means you are in favor of over 100,000 people a year dying there.
Blitz, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.. you can't have it both ways.
Tell you what though.. let me set the table for you: What would you do Blitz? Give us your solution to this mess.
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Originally posted by blitz
Sure ya government can give a crap what I think, but it better SHOULD care what the Pope, the churches, The UN, old friends and the majority of people on this planet has to say them...
LOL, the pope and the churches.
how many folks have that regime killed?
F.
The pope was threatened by pagans in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
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Originally posted by stegor
Nothing of what you wrote.
Ah, my misunderstanding then.
FWIW, I'm not calloused to the deaths of Iraqi innocents. In fact it greatly angers me that some Iraqis would create the conditions that will likely result in US troops killing innocents. And not just because of the bad PR but because I do feel for the husbands and wives losing their loved ones and the children losing their parents and the parents losing their children. I also feel for the US troops that will have to live with this on their conscience.
Why is hard to believe that a leader capable of doing this to his own people is capable of do much worse to others?
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Originally posted by Furious
LOL, the pope and the churches.
how many folks have that regime killed?
F.
The pope was threatened by pagans in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
Especially in the region lol.
Seriously, I imagine that the Pope is one guy we don't want supporting a war in the Middle East lol. Maybe our Service men could all wear King George's Cross on their Kevlar, and start yelling in latin.
-Sik
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Originally posted by funkedup
OMG I'm shocked! It's almost like they're having a war or something!
LOL yeah, everyone was expecting a party, like most of Gulf War I
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if we dont win the PR battle during and after the war we might as well chalk it up to a lose. Unless we roll through baghdad with everyone waving little american flags, we wont look like liberators but the imperialists the world community thinks we are. And dont kid yourself that we are fighting for our freedom when we start wars in other countrys. terrorists are not out to take away our freedom but to kill us for our governments position on isreal. If anything we are fighting to stop more attacks.
Problem is we are fighting this like we are fighting the drug war. We havnt changed our stance on Isreal(one of the big reasons these people hate us so much) ,instead we are trying to destroy countries(like the cartels) that support terrorism. only problem is that like the cartels once we get rid of one it just leaves a bigger market for others to come in. And i for one am not looking forward to perpetual war.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I doubt there's more than a handful here that would want to be included in a "we" with you.
Roger that!
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They may hate us for our stand with Israel but who else will? Israel has no friends but the U.S. Everyone in the middle east would just as soon drive them into the sea. They want Israel destroyed, to them nothing else matters.
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Thank you Batz. Saved me a bunch of typing. ;)
The Pope, eh? Hey Blitz... how do you feel about the role of the Vatican in that last big genocidal conflict, WW2? How'd you think the Pope did, pretty good or what?
Just remember every time you're out there waving your sign, you're doing your best to keep a genocidal killer in power over helpless, innocent people. Not to mention the 12 years of ignored sanctions that have turned the UN into a meaningless entity. You buddy.. you're helping do all that.
Tell you what, you're a carpenter right? Let's have a race. I'll make a 6 x 6 centimeter miniature wooden tombstone for every innocent Iraqi killed in this conflict and you make one for every innocent Iraqi killed by Hussein and his mininons since Hussein gained power.
I'll bet I get done a long time before you do, and I'm not good at woodwork. :D
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Originally posted by Rockstar
They may hate us for our stand with Israel but who else will? Israel has no friends but the U.S. Everyone in the middle east would just as soon drive them into the sea. They want Israel destroyed, to them nothing else matters.
Maybe they should start acting friendly, or better yet, civil?
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Originally posted by blitz
Sure ya government can give a crap what I think, but it better SHOULD care what the Pope, the churches, The UN, old friends and the majority of people on this planet has to say them.
THEY ARE AGAINST THIS BLOODY WAR AND WANT YOUR GOVERNMENT TO STOP THAT CRAP!
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
Nope we dont give a crap about what any of yall think.
If you dont like it you can try to stop us.
ROTFLMAO!
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Blitz i don't care what the pope says. And i'm not the rest of the world to.(i'm dutch)
Saddam is a kind of nazi
and Nazi's should be whiped away.
Just that simple
How many people will die to the regime if there is never a war against the regime.??
The war has begun now it has to be finished.
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Thank God iraqis use 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R bullets that usually leave clean wounds and allow most wounded to suvive instead of fragmenting projectiles that shred insides of a human body with dozens of pieces and cause devastating, deadly wounds even if the medical help is available.
Like those M193 and M855 that I use in my rifle...
miko
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In what way Animal? Look at their lifstyle, form of government, freedoms they enjoy, though not perfect compared to surrounding nations I'd say they are very civil, friendly and restrained. However I do see a nation (Israel) in fear for it's life, threatened from almost every side.
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Dudes...their resistance is futile...they will be assimilated into the peace loving and decent folks of the world...or they will die!
yes...i like borgs so what :D
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Thank God iraqis use 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R bullets that usually leave clean wounds
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Oh my! a ballistician no less.
One of the prevailing thoughts on using the 5.56 is that it maims rather than kills its victim outright. This is a two bladed sword so bear with me and see if you agree.
Blade one: The 5.56 causes wounds that require medical treatment of wounded soldiers on the battlefield. A wounded soldier requries no less than two soldiers to clear from the battle area. Therefore three soldiers are disabled from the fight. This works out nicely if your fighting an organized army the fights with the same ethics as we do. Never leave a soldier behind etc etc.
Blade two: the 5.56 has been found over and over, time after time to do either one of two things: Pass so sharply and quickly through the body of the victim so that the combatant doesnt realize instantly that he has been wounded and continues fighting for some time (not good), or requires multiple hits to disable permanently. Unfortunately, most of the armies or fighting units on the recienving end of the 5.56 dont give a damn about their wounded.
As far as the AK is concerned. The way most armies use the AK is as an general assault weapon of uneducated untrained paramilitaries. That is, they dont take aim and fire. They tend to shoot large bursts in the direction of the enemy. Not that this is a bad thing. Just doesnt tear down the fighting units like one would really want in a fight. If you watch some of the 101st fighting in the Raq, you will see them taking aim and firing single rounds. Far better IMO.
Afterthought:
In the battle of Somalia, one of the special forces, I recal a SEAL, insisted on using a rifle chambered in 308. I think it was a M14 but dont call me on it. Over and over the soldiers fighting their way out of the Mog were dismayed to see skinnies continue fighting after taking mutiple hits with 5.56 and this guy with the 308 had everyones lust because his rifle, although heavy and unwieldy, was dropping the skinnies flat after a single shots through the midsection.
We fight to live and will prevail against those that fight to die. Its simple human economics.
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Originally posted by miko2d
Thank God iraqis use 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R bullets that usually leave clean wounds and allow most wounded to suvive instead of fragmenting projectiles that shred insides of a human body with dozens of pieces and cause devastating, deadly wounds even if the medical help is available.
Like those M193 and M855 that I use in my rifle...
miko
What the 5.45 AK74 shipments from the motherland were delayed at syrian customs?
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"""Thank God iraqis use 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R bullets """'
"thank god"??, no , thank the geneva convention*, all military must use FMJ, full metal jacket bullets that do not fragment.
by saying"thank god iraqis use" are you implying that the US/UK do not use FMJ bullets??
note* of course we all know saddam cares not about silly rules of war.
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5.56 will fragment a lot, thats why the washington dc sniper hurt people so bad.
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john9001: "thank god"??, no , thank the geneva convention*, all military must use FMJ, full metal jacket bullets that do not fragment.
by saying"thank god iraqis use" are you implying that the US/UK do not use FMJ bullets??
I beliebe it is a legend about Geneva Convention outlawing expanding/fragmenting buillets.
I believe you are referring to "Laws of War" adopted at Haague IV on October 18, 1907 that says:
Art. 23.
In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden -
To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;
and before that
Laws of War :
Declaration on the Use of Bullets Which Expand or Flatten Easily in the Human Body; signed at Hague on July 29, 1899 and inspired by Declaration of St. Petersburg of the 29th November (11th December), 1868:
The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.
I do not believe US was a signatory to either of those conventions.
I did not find information on the use of bullest in the current one but maybe my search was good.
US and NATO after US pressure did switch to 5.65x45 FMJ (.223 Remington) bullets which are Full Metal Jacket - most common M193 55grain and M855 62 grain plus specialty rounds. Being of .22 caliber those bullets would be extremely inefficient except due to the properties of the bullet construction and shape they quickly tumble in the soft tissues and fragment into pieces at velocities below 2700fps or about 250 yards from the standard barrel.
Without fragmentation, such a tiny hole generally does not cause enough shock or bleeding to incapacitate a victim quickly - and is easily treated.
You can read the most comprehencive description of those bullets/ammo at http://www.ammo-oracle.com. There are other resources on the net that show the results of those bullets shot into ballistic gelatine. Plenty of US people are armed with AR-15 and Mini-14 type rifels and AK variants chambered for 5.56 ammo - including myself. So that infirmation is widely covered in many sources.
In Mogadishu some troopers were armed with short-barreled CAR rifles that make effective fragmentation rage about 15 yards. They report hostiles remained active even afted being hit multiple times.
The same is reported by US troops in Afghanistan where engagements often happen at extended ranges.
Of course in the close-range jungle combat of Vietnam those bullets proved absolutely devastating.
The same principle is used in soviet 5.45x39 (AK-74) ammo - the bullet has a cavity under the jacket not filled with led in order to shift the center of gravity back and make it tumble easier. They had to do that becasue the bullet is less powerfull limited by 39mm case (like AK-47) compared to NATO 45mm case.
That allows USA to claim it is using "ball" ammo while producing bullets that are extremely hard to treat. If you remember the story of a child that survived the Beltway Sniper shot at 100-150 yards, inside of his chest cavity were "shredded" with one bullet.
Our 3rd world opponents are armed with older weapons that use 7.62 bullets that are stronger and trave slower and do not fragment - and are not built to do so, which would be easy to do by making them hollow-point or whatever.
There is plenty of cheap hollow-point 7.62x39 ammunition available for AK - currently made by russian and US manufacturers. If Hussein cared, he would have gotten some without problems.
of course we all know saddam cares not about silly rules of war
Is that a suggestion we should not either?
miko
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Originally posted by Rockstar
In what way Animal? Look at their lifstyle, form of government, freedoms they enjoy, though not perfect compared to surrounding nations I'd say they are very civil, friendly and restrained. However I do see a nation (Israel) in fear for it's life, threatened from almost every side.
Yeah quite civil... but only among themselves.
I fail to see how one of their "neiborghs" can possibly percieve them as civil when his home is being bulldozed.
Not that the terrorists are any more friendly of course, but I'm talking about the average palestinian citizen who'se home got repo'ed at gunpoint.
The Israeli .gov is no different to the common terrorist organization, except that their funding comes from the USA and not from Saddam or Bin Laden.
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Why does Isreal need money generated by american taxpayers?
We really need to break Isreal off the american taxpayers tit.
Its all a bit much for me. I dont have anything but good will towards Isreal but Im tired of being so closely associated with them, as an american. They should be able to fend for themselves by now.
Ive been musing with generating some letters to my reps on this.
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heh finally something i agree with you on yeager
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ditto
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Originally posted by Animal
I fail to see how one of their "neiborghs" can possibly percieve them as civil when his home is being bulldozed.
Which came first, the bulldozer or the pali meat bomb?
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Which came first, the bulldozer or the pali meat bomb?
-SW
Does it matter anymore?
And how can you blame all Palestinians for the decisions of independent terrorists?
Its just an excuse.
knock on door
"Excuse me sir, you need to evacuate this building"
"Why? this is my house!"
"Because a Palestinian carbombed a bus station in Israel."
"Thats not my fault, I didnt even know that guy!"
Israeli points Uzi at Palestinian
Three months later, homeless, the Palestinian's pregnant wife is raped and killed by street criminals, the Palestinian straps dynamite and boards a bus full of Israeli settlers
Another Palestinian home is reposessed, another terrorist is created, and the vicious cycle continues.
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It was "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kind of question.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
It was "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kind of question.
-SW
Oh. The bulldozer came first.
The Israeli flag should be a Caterpilar bulldozer
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aww forget it, this is off topic anyways :)
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Blitz, I'm waiting for your answer.
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Blitz is a moron...and i would kik his Virtual prettythang
Blitz says"My Germany never...ever threatend anyone.. ever!"
BiGB saysHow much per hour for a bulldozer?
lolol,,yes Blitz..we will build a EuroDisneyland just for you soemday..so dont hate America so much or you wont be allowed on Space Mountain...
WHat does Blitz play by in AH(handle)..or does heven play?
I need to know who to give the "Can I join screen" to??
lmfao...
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I'm still waiting for your solution Blitz. Or are you just some dull witted whacko that really doesn't have an original idea/opinion and you're just regurgitating others propaganda to appear intellectual?
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Originally posted by Steve
So which is it Blitz?
Blitz quote: "You go there as Aggressors without UN permission and 12 years of Un sanctions with 1,5 million iraq people dying didn't help much to win their hearts. "
Blitz quote:"This is exactly why i'm against this war."
By your estimates, over 100,000 people a year are dying in Iraq. So, if you are against the war, you must be in favor of us staying out of Iraq, which in turn means you are in favor of over 100,000 people a year dying there.
Blitz, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.. you can't have it both ways.
Tell you what though.. let me set the table for you: What would you do Blitz? Give us your solution to this mess.
LOL Steve, Blitz can't answer........ unless he wants re-establish how much of a moron he is.
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Originally posted by blitz
Sure ya government can give a crap what I think, but it better SHOULD care what the Pope, the churches, The UN, old friends and the majority of people on this planet has to say them.
THEY ARE AGAINST THIS BLOODY WAR AND WANT YOUR GOVERNMENT TO STOP THAT CRAP!
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
Why should we care what the pope thinks?
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There already is a Euro-Disney park, it's located in Paris.
I'm surprised you didn't know that BIGBlololxxx.
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Originally posted by Toad
Tell you what, you're a carpenter right? Let's have a race. I'll make a 6 x 6 centimeter miniature wooden tombstone for every innocent Iraqi killed in this conflict and you make one for every innocent Iraqi killed by Hussein and his mininons since Hussein gained power.
I'll bet I get done a long time before you do, and I'm not good at woodwork. :D
You just drawed a line between between Saddam Hussein and Mr. Bush, stop that!!!! :D
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why should we care what the pope thinks?
Because America has a huge catholic community :)
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous, it's an bloody 'Aggression War'
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why should we care what the pope thinks?
Cause ur president is thinking he's on a crusade.
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Originally posted by Steve
So which is it Blitz?
Blitz quote: "You go there as Aggressors without UN permission and 12 years of Un sanctions with 1,5 million iraq people dying didn't help much to win their hearts. "
Blitz quote:"This is exactly why i'm against this war."
By your estimates, over 100,000 people a year are dying in Iraq. So, if you are against the war, you must be in favor of us staying out of Iraq, which in turn means you are in favor of over 100,000 people a year dying there.
Blitz, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.. you can't have it both ways.
Tell you what though.. let me set the table for you: What would you do Blitz? Give us your solution to this mess.
Looks like YOUR government is responsible for this mess with supporting a murderer and user of WMDs for a long, long time.
Would have bein better to act with civility, instead of beating the war drum.
It's a strategic war to gain control over the middle east, has little to nothing to do with human rights of Iraq people for ya government.
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
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"Like a wounded rat, when backed into a corner, the Blitch will bite out at things that aren't there, while totally ignoring the topic in front of it." National Geographic
-
Answer the question Blitz. You don' want us in Iraq, over 100,000 people a year are dying in there. If you think we shouldn't be in there, what is the solution. I'm challenging you to answer directly.
-
Originally posted by Steve
Answer the question Blitz. You don' want us in Iraq, over 100,000 people a year are dying in there. If you think we shouldn't be in there, what is the solution. I'm challenging you to answer directly.
I would say the insane embargo killed the babies in the first place .
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
When will Vietnam people finally get an apology?
-
of course you would
very narrow view
-
Blitz, answer the question. What would you do? How many times do I need to ask you this? You type all sorts of things opposing this or the other thing... but you offer no alternatives. That makes you out to be an empty headed whiner blowhard. I'm giving you a chance to correct that. Give an alternative solution to what is occuring or shut your bellybutton up, once and for all.
-
Blitz is an idiot..proof is in the pudding...
Blitz says.Germany never hurt anyone..anywhere...ever
..and Blitz says There was no such thing as a holocuast..thats rediculous
More Great ideas from Blitz
America kills women and children on purpose
so we know what blitz is made up of...
hes a non-factor...
-
Originally posted by Steve
Blitz, answer the question. What would you do? How many times do I need to ask you this? You type all sorts of things opposing this or the other thing... but you offer no alternatives. That makes you out to be an empty headed whiner blowhard. I'm giving you a chance to correct that. Give an alternative solution to what is occuring or shut your bellybutton up, once and for all.
War is never an inevitable fate. War always means the defeat of humanity"
The overseas development agencies of the Roman Catholic and Protestant Churches in Germany - Brot für die Welt, Evangelischer Entwicklungsdienst (EED) and Misereor - strongly support the appeal directed to the international community on January 13 by Pope John Paul II. At no point does international law justify a "pre-emptive war", and claim-ing the right to such a war would seriously undermine the principles of the United Nations Charter. Our partners both in the region and beyond it fear a humanitarian disaster which would severely aggravate the situation of the poor.
The overseas development agencies of the Churches in Germany strongly urge the Federal Government of Germany to exercise its influence, together with like-minded European partners and by means of its vote in the United Nations Security Council, to avert the threat of military intervention in Iraq. All possible means of finding a peaceful solution to the conflict should be attempted, including the extension of the time-frame for the UN weapons inspections, so as to attain a higher degree of certainty regarding the actual threat posed by the ruling powers in Iraq.
We are especially concerned for the people of Iraq, who have already suffered for years under an oppressive regime and the consequences of the UN embargo. They would be the first victims of a military strike. A document compiled by a number of UN organisations describes a threatening yet plausible scenario involving horrendous cost to human lives - hundreds of thousands of people killed, injured or permanently maimed, plus another two million refugees in Iraq to add to the one million refugees presently in the region. Already inadequate medical facilities would be completely destroyed. Added to this would be the untold damage inflicted on the economic fabric and infrastructure of the country. Quite apart from this it is completely unclear under what political conditions and with what future perspective Iraq could be rebuilt.
It is impossible to predict the political and social effects of a war on neighbouring countries of the Middle East and in particular on the situation in Israel. The risk of provoking additional instability as well as creating new social and political causes of conflict is incalculable. It is to be feared that the price in terms of human lives would be very high.
Numerous partners of the churches in Africa and Asia have expressed warnings and fears regarding the potentially omi-nous effects of a war on Iraq on latent conflictive situations in their own countries. In these regions, as in the region in question, church representatives indicate that a military strike against Iraq would be regarded in their countries first and foremost as the attack of a Christian country on an Islamic one. They remind us of the riots that broke out in Nigeria as a reaction to the terrorist attack of September 11, 2001, causing the death of three thousand people.
For the above reasons we categorically reject all plans for war on Iraq.
Brot für die Welt
Evangelischer Entwicklungsdienst (EED)
MISEREOR
Stuttgart, Bonn, Aachen, 17th of January, 2003.
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
-
Originally posted by Steve
Blitz, answer the question. What would you do? How many times do I need to ask you this? You type all sorts of things opposing this or the other thing... but you offer no alternatives. That makes you out to be an empty headed whiner blowhard. I'm giving you a chance to correct that. Give an alternative solution to what is occuring or shut your bellybutton up, once and for all.
Dennis Halliday Interview
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Seán McGinley
Subject: Dennis Halliday Interview
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:37:39 +0100 (CET)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Friends,
Following is a transcript of an interview with Dennis
Halliday broadcast at 8:45 GMT on Wednesday November
3rd on the Irish national radio station RTE Radio 1.
The interviewer is Richard Crowley.
Interviewer: U.N: Secretary General Kofi Annan has
re-appointed Hans von Sponeck as Humanitarian
Coordinator in Iraq, despite US and British efforts to
have him removed. Dennis Halliday, who's been accused
in the US press of having influenced von Sponeck says
the Americans and the British simply don't want the
world to hear that thousands are dying because of the
sanctions.
Dennis Halliday: I believe it's a matter of being
embarrased by having a reputable individual in Baghdad
who is speaking out against the impact of these
economic sanctions, for which Britain is largely
responsible; sanctions which are not impacting on the
leadership of the country but instead are in fact
responsible for infant mortality, gross malnourishment
of the population and the destruction of an entire
society. I think they're frustrated at having an
international civil servant who lives in Baghdad, sees
what he sees, and speaks up.
I understand their reaction but it's really
unacceptable to interfere in the management of an
organisation which is the responsibility of the
Secretary General.
Interviewer: How can they dispute what you said, when
you were there; what Mr. von Sponeck says when he's
there; how can they ignore that or dispute it, do you
think ?
Halliday: Well, the fact is I don't think they do
dispute it, they simply put a political spin on it
because they don't like the truth. We've seen
Madeleine Albright on Television in this country
announcing that the deaths of 500 000 children were
worth it, in terms of containing President Saddam
Hussein.
It's just a very uncomfortable feeling, and they know
it's true, they just can't accept it politically.
Interviewer: Given the strength of the opposition to
what Mr. von Sponeck is saying or doing, what can Kofi
Annan and others who wish to provide some kind of
humanitarian aid to the area, what can they do ?
Halliday: I think the Secretary General will continue
to resist this sort of interference, but more
importantly I think is that the Secretary General will
have to move and influence the member states towrds
lifting economic sanctions, that is the only way to
begin to resolve the plight of the children and the
people of Iraq.
Interviewer: But how might they do that, given the
strength of opposition?
Halliday: Well, you know the opposition is only in
Britain and the United States. I think the issue now
is more on the balance, that is the maintenance of
some sort of military sanctions.
Clearly the whole Middle East needs to be downgraded
in terms of military capacity; and secondly I believe
there should be sanctions against the manufacture and
sale of military hardware, which of course would
impact on Europe, North America and, I'm sorry to say,
even the Republic Of Ireland, where now licencing has
been given to some 80 companies to manufacture
component parts of military weapons.
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
When will Vietnam people finally get an apology
-
Originally posted by Wlfgng
of course you would
very narrow view [/QUOTE
Halliday: Well, the fact is I don't think they do
dispute it, they simply put a political spin on it
because they don't like the truth. We've seen
Madeleine Albright on Television in this country
announcing that the deaths of 500 000 children were
worth it, in terms of containing President Saddam
Hussein.
It's just a very uncomfortable feeling, and they know
it's true, they just can't accept it politically
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous-It's an 'Aggression War'
When will Vietnam people finally get an apology?
-
Originally posted by blitz
I would say the insane embargo killed the babies in the first place .
September 20, 1999
U.N. Official in Iraq Calls for Lifting of Sanctions
By DOUGLAS JEHL
AGHDAD, Iraq -- Weighing in on renewed discussions among Western powers on Iraq, the senior United Nations official here called on Sunday for an immediate and unconditional lifting of many sanctions that would open the way to bigger flows of food, medicine and most other Iraqi imports.
The official, Hans von Sponek, said a dispute over plans to revive international weapons inspections in Iraq now posed increasing risks to the social fabric in a country that has already borne more than nine years of United Nations sanctions.
"Don't play the battle on the backs of the civilian population by letting them wait until the more complex issues are resolved," Sponek, a German who is the United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq, said in an interview here.
Sponek and his predecessor, Denis Halliday, have long tried to turn international attention toward the suffering of ordinary Iraqis, even as the United States and Britain have focused on the intransigence of the Iraqi Government, and blamed that Government for the travails of its citizens.
But Sunday, on the eve of expected talks about Iraq at the United Nations, Sponek spoke in unusually impassioned terms about what he called the dangers of "using the human shield" in hopes of coaxing Iraqi concessions on arms issues.
"Please remove the humanitarian discussions from the rest in order to really end a silent human tragedy," Sponek said.
The remarks seemed intended at least in part as a reply to a State Department report issued last week that held the Iraqi leader, Saddam Hussein, wholly accountable for the suffering of his people.
The talks at the United Nations, among the five permanent members of the Security Council, are intended to seek agreement on a plan that would ease sanctions on Iraq in exchange for Baghdad's submission to a new system of weapons inspections to replace one that collapsed late last year.
The collapse was caused by bitter disputes between Iraq and the United Nations over access to suspected weapons sites, and it was followed last December by four days of heavy punitive air strikes by the United States and Britain. Air strikes that the Iraqi Government says have killed nearly 200 people have continued sporadically in the nearly 10 months since.
In that time, members of the Security Council have been unable to agree even among themselves over how any new system should function and on what terms it should be introduced. And throughout, the Baghdad Government has turned a deaf ear to all proposals, insisting instead that the time has come to lift all of the United Nations sanctions, which have been in force since the Persian Gulf war of 1991.
The stalemate has left a United Nations special monitoring commission known as Unscom unable to carry out its work. Reviled by the Iraqi Government for its intrusive methods, the commission is now paying the price -- in Baghdad, its headquarters within a United Nations compound remain padlocked and shuttered.
France, Russia and China, among the five permanent Security Council members, have been sympathetic to Iraq's contention that its Government has essentially carried out its obligations to the weapons inspectors. Those Governments now appear to support a plan that would allow an immediate end to the sanctions in return for Iraq's agreement to a new and less intrusive system of weapons inspection.
But the United States and Britain, which believe that Iraq may still be concealing an illicit weapons program, have argued for tougher terms. Together with the Netherlands, Britain has called for a plan that would allow only a moderate easing of the sanctions -- and only after a test period of several months that would be intended to gauge Iraq's cooperation with a new inspection regime.
The United States is seen as likely to support such an approach, but so far it is still opposed by the other three Council members. Senior officials from the five countries, who met in London last week, have reported progress toward a deal, but they also have cautioned that an agreement might not be possible.
Sponek, the United Nations representative here, has responsibility only for humanitarian issues, and not the arms inspections. But even among those who disagree about weapons inspection, he noted, there is a consensus that ordinary Iraqis have suffered under the embargo; all, he argued, should move now to halt what he called their "continuing deprivation."
Pointing to increases in crime, including prostitution, and the deteriorating quality of education, Sponek said he believed that Iraq should be given broad latitude to import any goods that did not also have military use.
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
When will Vietnam people finally get an apology?
2 million killed, 3 million wounded, what for?
-
Yeager - "The Raq" ??!?!
-
LMFAO
Do you fly under the name Blitz?
Can anyones tell me what this guy flys under..or does he?
type .join ###
edited heavily###########################################################################################..
Blutz you are a moron..Why arent you with the other human shields...*****
WHERE THE FUQ IS MY BULLDOZER AT???
-
France, Russia and China, among the five permanent Security Council members, have been sympathetic to Iraq's contention that its Government has essentially carried out its obligations to the weapons inspectors. Those Governments now appear to support a plan that would allow an immediate end to the sanctions in return for Iraq's agreement to a new and less intrusive system of weapons inspection.
Essentially??!!!! Less intrusive?!!!
WHY dont you tell me what you think these words mean ??
AND Tell me why you think that the UN should not hold IRaq fror what the UN DEMANDED in 1441..COMPLETE DISCLosure!!! No stupid sht about..well you cant go there..and blah blah...and oh..those missles go to far ..oops..
Not ESSEntially..and not "less intrusive"..
Do you know what these words mean even?
-
didn't bother to read it.
if you can't say it concisely, you can't say it
any one can cut and past a thousand words... what's your point?
-
Not sa single original thought... not a single suggestion of a solution to the problem Blitz.
Blitz, you're just an empty vessel which simply is unable to do anything but regurgitate the propaganda of others. I shant bother to read any more of your posts since they lack, as I said, any original thought whatsoever. If you actually come up with a thought, or a different action othe rthan the U.S. is taking, please preface it with "Original thought" otherwise I'll just skip it as more bull**** you read somewhere, then cut and pasted.
-
Interesting, this thread kind of reminds me of a quote I read about a particular battle during the Tet offensive.
Maybe we have to "destroy the town in order to save it."
Are we doing the same in Iraq?
Saddam did all that gassing in 1988, with our Government and the UK providing support. Where was the outcry then? Rumsfeld and Bush shook that bastard's hand, no less!
Definitely, Saddam needs to go, but the trash talking about Shock and Awe, and how fast we're going to have the Iraqis blowing kisses to us, does anyone remember that? Damn, even I got caught up in the hype. At least I can admit it. We're in this tar baby now, and we're stuck there, I just look forward to the regime falling. What happens next? Cheaper Oil? more pissed off Muslims? Cats and dogs living together, side by side?
I hope we're this hawkish against North Korea, that actually has the ability and balls to defend itself.
Not to mention China, anyone hear the wonderful stories about how they're squashing democracy there, away from the media? Saddam is nothing compared to those clowns.
In any event, it totally sucks that we can somehow find billions and billions of dollars, and yet no money for me, schools, me, policemen, me, firemen , me, retired vets, (but most importantly, ME) and the guys in this online GAME that have been unemployed for months...Go figure.
It's not about republicans or democrats...but theres plenty of BS we've been force fed by this administration..more to come later, count on it. Those Iraqi warships are gonna steam right up to the Naval War College and invade Newport..I saw it on MSNBC.com :)
I liked most of the responses here, on both sides...this is something most Iraquis can't do, hopefully this will change
Support the damn troops, at the VERY least!
Gainsie
-
Steve, I also didnt have a suggestion, but I say we're there now, so let's finish the deal. That's MY suggestion, but in the future, I'd like to see us follow the rules of democracy, international, or otherwise, that we are losing good men and women for.
90% of the Turks opposed the war, and we're going to screw them financially, because they listened to the constituents who elected them. The fact we're not respecting that, seems wrong, to me.
I expect to get flamed, bigtime (maybe or maybe not by you Steve), but I'm a big boy, I can take it :)
-
Ok Blitz, turn off Al Jazeera, and step away from the TV. You are unnecessarily subjecting yourself to irrational and illogical sources of information. Please don't confuse cause and effect. The fact that Saddam Hussein refuses to feed his people and divert resources from the oil for food program for military purposes is not the fault of the United States Government. He has ways to provide for his people, but refuses to do so. Your demonizing of the USA for the condition of the civilian population in Iraq is like blaming Smith & Wesson for killing John Lennon. The only one with a gun here is Saddam Hussein. It is hard to talk to people who fail to look at the whole picture.
-
Gainsie...
bruddah
I hope we are hawkish on Korea as well. I read a handful of articles saying that although N Korea has a substantial army, they really do not have the financial wherewithawl to sustain any kind of conflict. i'm sure they could wreak some havoc in the DMZ.. then what, I wonder.
Dude, I too am baffled and unhappy that we can send Billions upon billions of dollars in foreign aid yet, IMHO, the MOST important jobs in America, teachers, firemen, cops, and their ilk, get paid so little. Heck, shouldn't our troops that see combat be appropriately compensated for their willingness to give their lives for the good of the country?
How the hell can teachers be paid so little when so much rests on their shoulders? I don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. no, I'm not a teacher.
-
tracerx, God bless you for typing what you did... I've told that to Blitz repeatedly, he hasn't once had the balls to respond... except for cut and paste.
-
yes tracerx,,salute..
Steve..ya i agree..its tuff to sort the billions in world and who gets what to help who...
I say STOP supporting the overpayed Pro Athletes..Football-Baseball-Basketball...I will vever support that sht..Its rediculous that alot of you guys pay these guys to play games in front of you for so much frikn money...
My family is all in medical world..Doctors.etc...I swear..If they really didnt care about humans..we wouldn have sht..cause the med prof going to hell..WTG insurance comapnies and you dirtbags who sue everyone...Before my dad died,,,he said "Dotn be a Doctor"...Dam....that was brutle He was Paying 100k for Med malpractice insurance!!! Urologists work with very sensitive equipment..lolol
As is almost everything here..its Voluntary and you are payed what the market will bare...Ya..kind of BS sometimes tho.
-
If a hostage taker was executing hostages and the police stormed the building and some hostages were killed in the take down, blitz would blame the police for their deaths.
It's the same illogic employed by those who state that the UN sanctions are causing death and suffering in Iraq, not Hussien .
This isn't a second gulf war, it's the same gulf war that started 12 years ago, it's just that some players have changed sides .
-
I have no problem with athletes making money. Most of these guys grew up dirt poor, and if the leagues and owners can support the players, good for them, I hope they make all the dough they can get, just don't be a bastard about it and diss poorer folks. I ran track with Adidas for one year, and I barely earned enough to survive, but I LOVED it, and damn nearly did it for free!
I read in newsweek these corporate execs earning 3, 4, 5 Billion a year...PLEASE!
Steve, I managed to not only balance the MN state budget..(you know the Public Radio online thing)..and I also managed to create a 1.7 billion dollar surplus :). All I did was create a new tax bracket for the wealthy (200,000+/year) and screwed em bigtime. Then, add the luxury car tax, and cigarette tax. Not one dime on nursing home beds, police, fire or education cuts..
When I run for office, my campaign slogan just might be, "Tax the rich, milk those bastards dry" :D
Or, to quote George Carlin, "The Public Sucks. F--k Hope." :D
PS, I'm a psychotherapist in private practice, AND an educator, so I get fugged on both ends, from all directions, all the time. The gangbangs in the MA aren't watermelon compared to real life LOL
-
Originally posted by Steve
I'm still waiting for your solution Blitz. Or are you just some dull witted whacko that really doesn't have an original idea/opinion and you're just regurgitating others propaganda to appear intellectual?
Exactly! :D Bist Du wirklich so ein verbohrter Dummkopf?
March 21, 2003
>
>The following is a copy of Mary (Ann) Wright's letter of resignation to
>Secretary of State Colin Powell. Wright was most recently the deputy
>chief of mission at the U.S. embassy in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia. She helped
>open
>the U.S. embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, in January 2002.
>
>U.S. Embassy, Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
>March 19, 2003
>Secretary of State Colin Powell
>US Department of State
>Washington, DC 20521
>
>Dear Secretary Powell:
>
>When I last saw you in Kabul in January, 2002 you arrived to officially
>open the US Embassy that I had helped reestablish in December, 2001 as the
>first political officer. At that time I could not have imagined that I
would
>be writing a year later to resign from the Foreign Service because of US
>policies. All my adult life I have been in service to the United
>States.. I have been a diplomat for fifteen years and the Deputy
>Chief of Mission in our Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia, Afghanistan
>(briefly) and
>Mongolia.
>
>I have also had assignments in Somalia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Grenada
>and Nicaragua. I received the State Department's Award for Heroism as
Charge
>d'Affaires during the evacuation of Sierra Leone in 1997. I was 26 years
>in the US Army/Army Reserves and participated in civil reconstruction
>projects after military operations in Grenada, Panama and Somalia. I
>attained the rank of Colonel during my military service.
>
>This is the only time in my many years serving America that I have felt
>I cannot represent the policies of an Administration of the United
>States. I disagree with the Administration's policies on Iraq, the
>Israeli-Palestinian conflict, North Korea and curtailment of civil
>liberties in the U.S. itself. I believe the Administration's policies are
>making the world a more dangerous, not a safer, place. I feel obligated
>morally and
>professionally to set out my very deep and firm concerns on these
>policies and to resign from government service as I cannot defend or
>implement them.
>
>I hope you will bear with my explanation of why I must resign. After
>thirty years of service to my country, my decision to resign is a huge step
>and
>I want to be clear in my reasons why I must do so.
>
>I disagree with the Administration's policies on Iraq.
>
>I wrote this letter five weeks ago and held it hoping that the
>Administration would not go to war against Iraq at this time without
>United Nations Security Council agreement. I strongly believe that going to
>war
>now will make the world more dangerous, not safer.
>
>There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein is a despicable dictator and has
>done incredible damage to the Iraqi people and others of the region. I
>totally support the international community's demand that Saddam's regime
>destroy weapons of mass destruction.
>
>However, I believe we should not use US military force without UNSC
>agreement to ensure compliance. In our press for military action now, we
>have
>created deep chasms in the international community and in important
>international organizations. Our policies have alienated many of our allies
>and
>created ill will in much of the world.
>
>Countries of the world supported America's action in Afghanistan as a
>response to the September 11 Al Qaida attacks on America. Since then,
>America has lost the incredible sympathy of most of the world because of
our
>policy toward Iraq. Much of the world considers our statements about Iraq
as
>arrogant, untruthful and masking a hidden agenda. Leaders of moderate
>Moslem/Arab countries warn us about predicable outrage and anger of the
>youth of their countries if America enters an Arab country with the
>purpose of attacking Moslems/Arabs, not defending them. Attacking the
>Saddam regime in Iraq now is very different than expelling the same regime
>from
>Kuwait, as we did ten years ago.
>
>I strongly believe the probable response of many Arabs of the region and
>Moslems of the world if the US enters Iraq without UNSC agreement will
>result in actions extraordinarily dangerous to America and Americans.
>Military
>action now without UNSC agreement is much more dangerous for America and
>the world than allowing the UN weapons inspections to proceed and
>subsequently taking UNSC authorized action if warranted.
>
>I firmly believe the probability of Saddam using weapons of mass
>destruction is low, as he knows that using those weapons will trigger
>an immediate, strong and justified international response. There will be no
>question
>of action against Saddam in that case. I strongly disagree with the use of
>a "preemptive attack" against Iraq and believe that this preemptive attack
>policy
>will be used against us and provide justification for individuals and
groups
>to "preemptively attack" America and American citizens.
>
>The international military build-up is providing pressure on the regime
>that is resulting in a slow, but steady disclosure of Weapons of Mass
>Destruction (WMD). We should give the weapons inspectors time to do
>their job. We should not give extremist Moslems/ Arabs a further cause to
>hate
>America, or give moderate Moslems a reason to join the extremists.
>Additionally, we must
>reevaluate keeping our military forces in the Middle East, particularly
>in Saudi Arabia. Their presence on the Islamic "holy soil" of Saudi Arabia
>will be an anti-American rally cry for Moslems as long as the US military
>remains and a strong reason, in their opinion, for actions against the US
>government and American citizens.
>
>Although I strongly believe the time in not yet right for military
>action in Iraq, as a soldier who has been in several military
>operations, I hope General Franks, US and coalition forces can accomplish
>the
>missions they will be ordered do without loss of civilian or military life
>and without
>destruction of the Iraqi peoples' homes and livelihood. I strongly urge
>the Department of State to attempt again to stop the policy that is leading
>us to military action in Iraq without UNSC agreement. Timing is everything
>and
>this is not yet the time for military action.
>
>I disagree with the Administration's lack of effort in resolving the
>Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Likewise, I cannot support the lack of
>effort by the Administration to use its influence to resurrect the
>Israeli-Palestinian peace process. As Palestinian suicide bombers kill
>Israelis
>and Israeli military operations kill Palestinians and destroy Palestinian
>towns
>and cities, the Administration has done little to end the violence. We must
>exert our
>considerable financial influence on the Israelis to stop destroying
>cities and on the Palestinians to curb its youth suicide bombers. I hope
the
>Administration's long-needed "Roadmap for Peace" will have the human
>resources and political capital needed to finally make some progress
>toward peace.
>
>I disagree with the Administration's lack of policy on North Korea
>
>Additionally, I cannot support the Administration's position on North
>Korea. With weapons, bombs and missiles, the risks that North Korea poses
>are
>too great to ignore. I strongly believe the Administration's lack of
>substantive discussion, dialogue and engagement over the last two years has
>jeopardized security on the peninsula and the region. The situation
>with North Korea is dangerous for us to continue to neglect.
>
>I disagree with the Administration's policies on Unnecessary Curtailment
>of Rights in America. Further, I cannot support the Administration's
>unnecessary curtailment of civil rights following September 11. The
>investigation
>of those suspected of ties with terrorist organizations is critical but the
>legal system of America for 200 years has been based on standards that
>provide
>protections for persons during the investigation period. Solitary
>confinement without
>access to legal counsel cuts the heart out of the legal foundation on
>which our country stands. Additionally, I believe the Administration's
>secrecy in the
>judicial process has created an atmosphere of fear to speak out against the
>gutting of the protections on which America was built and the protections
we
>encourage other countries
>to provide to their citizens.
>
>Resignatio
>
>I have served my country for almost thirty years in the some of the most
>isolated and dangerous parts of the world. I want to continue to serve
>America. However, I do not believe in the policies of this
>Administration and cannot defend or implement them. It is with heavy
>heart that I must end my service to America and therefore resign due to the
>Administration's policies.
>
>Mr. Secretary, to end on a personal note, under your leadership, we have
>made great progress in improving the organization and administration of the
>Foreign Service and the Department of State. I want to thank you for
>your extraordinary efforts to that end. I hate to leave the Foreign
Service,
>and I wish you and our colleagues well.
>
>Very Respectfully,
>
>Mary A. Wright, FO-01
>
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
When will Vietnam people finally get an apology?
2 million killed, 3 million wounded, what for?
-
Originally posted by tracerx
Ok Blitz, turn off Al Jazeera, and step away from the TV. You are unnecessarily subjecting yourself to irrational and illogical sources of information. Please don't confuse cause and effect. The fact that Saddam Hussein refuses to feed his people and divert resources from the oil for food program for military purposes is not the fault of the United States Government. He has ways to provide for his people, but refuses to do so. Your demonizing of the USA for the condition of the civilian population in Iraq is like blaming Smith & Wesson for killing John Lennon. The only one with a gun here is Saddam Hussein. It is hard to talk to people who fail to look at the whole picture.
As you ask me to, Mr. Fox Propaganda :)
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous.
When will Vietnam people finally get an apology?
2 million killed, 3 million wounded, what for?
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
LMFAO
Blutz you are a moron..Why arent you with the other human shields...*****
No need to get some bloody liberating Clusterbomb on my head, lost to many hairs already by the nonsense, spit by Bush & Co :D
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Interesting, this thread kind of reminds me of a quote I read about a particular battle during the Tet offensive.
Maybe we have to "destroy the town in order to save it."
Are we doing the same in Iraq?
Saddam did all that gassing in 1988, with our Government and the UK providing support. Where was the outcry then? Rumsfeld and Bush shook that bastard's hand, no less!
Definitely, Saddam needs to go, but the trash talking about Shock and Awe, and how fast we're going to have the Iraqis blowing kisses to us, does anyone remember that? Damn, even I got caught up in the hype. At least I can admit it. We're in this tar baby now, and we're stuck there, I just look forward to the regime falling. What happens next? Cheaper Oil? more pissed off Muslims? Cats and dogs living together, side by side?
I hope we're this hawkish against North Korea, that actually has the ability and balls to defend itself.
Not to mention China, anyone hear the wonderful stories about how they're squashing democracy there, away from the media? Saddam is nothing compared to those clowns.
In any event, it totally sucks that we can somehow find billions and billions of dollars, and yet no money for me, schools, me, policemen, me, firemen , me, retired vets, (but most importantly, ME) and the guys in this online GAME that have been unemployed for months...Go figure.
It's not about republicans or democrats...but theres plenty of BS we've been force fed by this administration..more to come later, count on it. Those Iraqi warships are gonna steam right up to the Naval War College and invade Newport..I saw it on MSNBC.com :)
I liked most of the responses here, on both sides...this is something most Iraquis can't do, hopefully this will change
Support the damn troops, at the VERY least!
Gainsie
There's absolutely no way i would support your troops at the moment and if Germany would have troops there i would not support them too other than fightin for bringin them home .
In fact i wish Germany would close our airspace for all millitary planes running to the middle-east now.
But at least Germany supports your wounded soldiers in hospitals on our territory, so they don't have to drive all that long way back, at once. I support that. :)
I respect all those of You, though, who think, it's a must to support your soldiers when ya at war.
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's an 'Angriffskrieg'
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Originally posted by Saintaw
There already is a Euro-Disney park, it's located in Paris.
I'm surprised you didn't know that BIGBlololxxx.
AFAIK it's less than not profitable. Noone wants to see culture-less kind of entertainment ;)
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Originally posted by Steve
Heck, shouldn't our troops that see combat be appropriately compensated for their willingness to give their lives for the good of the country?
What good are they doing for your country? Thought the war was fought for the 100k ppl/year killed in iraq?
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ccvi, wtf is that supposed to mean? We are removing an Iraqi regime that has now known ties to terrorists who have proven they are willing to kill thousands of Americans. As it happens, this regime was also killing over 100k/year of it's own people.
My mention of Iraqi deaths was related to Blitz's argument that the deaths were caused by sanctions, not by the actions of the regime. Try to keep up.
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Originally posted by Steve
ccvi, wtf is that supposed to mean? We are removing an Iraqi regime that has now known ties to terrorists who have proven they are willing to kill thousands of Americans. As it happens, this regime was also killing over 100k/year of it's own people.
My mention of Iraqi deaths was related to Blitz's argument that the deaths were caused by sanctions, not by the actions of the regime. Try to keep up.
Hey steve, please e-mail Mr. Bush to attack his hijacker friends in Riad (where is Riad on my map?) , to stop some terrorists :D
Regards Blitz
btw Tell me why some of them were from liberated , democratic Kuwait?
Where Osama got his money from ( other than all that millions of that money gone from US government to Taliban regime for that pipeline?)?
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese at least have something in common :
Their pride
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Blitz, you've gone for speaking gibberish, to speaking German, back to speaking gibberish. Don't get me wrong, I'm always impressed when one knows more than one language... just that you often make no sense in English.
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Originally posted by blitz
Hey steve, e-mail Mr. Bush to attack his hijacker friends in Riad (where is Riad on my map?) , to stop some terrorists :D
Regards Blitz
btw Tell me why some of them were from liberated , democratic Kuwait?
Where Osama got his money from ( other than all that millions of that money gone from US government to Taliban regime for that pipeline?)?
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese at least have something in common :
Their pride
Read some newspapers and books Steve, then you'll find out some day :D
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by Martlet
As Bush said today. We aren't going to let terrorists, nations that support terrorists, or nation's with the predisposition to arm terrorists exist.
UK Shoulda bombed Boston and NY while it had the chance...
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Originally posted by bounder
UK Shoulda bombed Boston and NY while it had the chance...
When did you ever have the chance?
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Up until the time groups in the US stopped providing financial support for terrorists killing people in the UK...
Bombing cities after organisations harboured within have stopped funding terrorism is beyond the pale, even for the UK.
I think the funding really tailed off araound 11.09.01 but had already been declining ever since the British Government sat down to negotiate a peace settlement with the terrorists.
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I ask again, when did the UK ever have the chance to bomb Boston?
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When did you ever have the chance?
What has that got to do with anything?
Are you a supporter of the IRA, Martlet?
Now there's a question out of left-field to go with yours.
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Originally posted by Dowding
What has that got to do with anything?
Are you a supporter of the IRA, Martlet?
Now there's a question out of left-field to go with yours.
It was a legitimate question, in direct response to his statement. Not out of left field at all. Should I direct all the questions I have for him at you, or is he capable of answering some of them himself?
Please forward me the list of questions you are fielding for other people.
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Originally posted by bounder
Up until the time groups in the US stopped providing financial support for terrorists killing people in the UK...
Bombing cities after organisations harboured within have stopped funding terrorism is beyond the pale, even for the UK.
I think the funding really tailed off araound 11.09.01 but had already been declining ever since the British Government sat down to negotiate a peace settlement with the terrorists.
US government never supported terrorists directly or indirectly, nowhere in the world. Ya should know that
US government hates all acts of terrorism, everyone knows.
They hunted those IRA supporter groups all that years- was impossible to get them. No way.
They even hunt down terrorist groups in foreign countries who sympathise with the US, hard to believe but true.
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
US government never supported terrorists directly or indirectly, nowhere in the world. Ya should know that
US government hates all acts of terrorism, everyone knows.
They hunted those IRA supporter groups all that years- was impossible to get them. No way.
Regards Blitz
exactly
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Not the whole truth Blitz. Allowing Real IRA members free access to the US because the group (responsible for killing 38 men, women and children at Omagh) was not recognised as a terrorist group by the US government, wasn't exactly a sparkling idea. They could have done a lot more.
Martlet - you seem to be arguing that anywhere that terrorism resides, the government of that nation should be held responisble, no?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Not the whole truth Blitz. Allowing Real IRA members free access to the US because the group (responsible for killing 38 men, women and children at Omagh) was not recognised as a terrorist group by the US government, wasn't exactly a sparkling idea. They could have done a lot more.
Martlet - you seem to be arguing that anywhere that terrorism resides, the government of that nation should be held responisble, no?
No, that wasn't my argument at all.
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Originally posted by Martlet
I ask again, when did the UK ever have the chance to bomb Boston?
From a completely hypothetical viewpoint, the chance to bomb Boston is there now, and has been for some time, certainly during the 70s and 80s.
Vanguard, Victorious, Vigilant and Vengeance - one of which is presently cruising underwater somewhere....
Might be a bit difficult to smooth over diplomatically though...
Anyway, the UK made its peace with the terrorists (or should I say 'is trying to make...')
The peace dividend is good, and now only the drug dealing gang members hold on to the 'struggle' quite so hard as a reason for existing.
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Euros alway try to mix their interests with the US's then they get an attitude when they see something in the real world that proves them wrong.
The US is against terrorism and state sponsored terrorism that threatens the interest of the US. I know its hard concept for the rest of the world to comprehend but thats how it is. Its not the US's responsibility to protect the world from itself. We do have an interest in building relationships and alliances with those who share some similiar interests or taking a particular interest if it helps us in other areas.
The IRA is and never was a threat to the US. Its the responsibility of your government and your electorate to pursue your Nation interests as you see fit. If the UK Government thought it was in their interests to bomb Boston or New York then why didnt they? Because it wasnt.
The US federal government isnt the worlds government. We are a sovereign nation. Our federal government is charged with the specific responsibility of protecting our interests. Theres a reason we spend so much on defense and why we have pushed for the "world economy". By enaging economically with various nations we created a dependency that helps reduce political tension. Thats why we keep most favored nation status for China. To those we cant entice economically we keep a technically superior and large armed force.
Its the responsibility of every other Nations governments to protect their interests. If your government can not do that then it has failed you.
This is why smaller insignificant Nations rely so heavily on the UN. The US doesnt need the UN and slowly but surely it needs Nato less and less. Our economy in the way its structured ensures that it will be almost impossible to isolate us. To many nations rely on our market to sell their goods. No Nation or group of Nations can afford to enter an arm race with the US. This is the position the US has created for itself.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Not the whole truth Blitz. Allowing Real IRA members free access to the US because the group (responsible for killing 38 men, women and children at Omagh) was not recognised as a terrorist group by the US government, wasn't exactly a sparkling idea. They could have done a lot more.
Martlet - you seem to be arguing that anywhere that terrorism resides, the government of that nation should be held responisble, no?
Dowding,sorry, was deep, deep sarkasm :D
Iran -> to help Schah Reza Pachlewi to get in place
Cuba-> to destabalize it
Nicaragua-> Iran -Contra Affair
El Salvador-> Todesschwadronen, Domino theory
many, many more.
1. A FREEDOM FIGHTER is a terrorist who support my interrests, he's the good guy helping his people, often by torture, ambush, bombin raids against civilians etc.
i.e. Taliban were FREEDOM FIGHTERS when fighting russian invasion, that's why we supported them.
2. A terrorist uses same methods as Nr. 1 but can never be a freedom fighter because he don't support my interests.
Regards Blitz
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Wow, what a long thread.
Anyway, there is something Gscholz said:
"You may lay the blame anywhere you want AKIron, but the fact remains; the Iraqi people will not see you as liberators when you litter the landscape with dead civilians. Saddam and his bunch is forcing your hand ... and winning the "hearts and mind" war."
For a short while it may be like this, but not much beyond that.
A country may fight hopelessly, stupidly and bloodily beyond any sense, but once its over things change quickly.
This war is so far not particularly corpse littered, and rather little compared to Saddam's total victims during his regime. People will also remember those.
Anyway, comparison left away, if the conclusion of a war means dictatorship and hardship pushed away, and the conquered country treated fairly by the victor (econoimical buildup etc), the blood of the innocent seems to get washed away fairly quickly. A good example: WW2.
Were British and US troops Particularly unpopular in Berlin or Munchen in the 50's? Did the Beatles suffer for their nationality in the 60's while playing in Hamburg? Are the Japanese plotting a revenge??? Naaaaaaaaaa
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Originally posted by Angus
Wow, what a long thread.
Anyway, there is something Gscholz said:
"You may lay the blame anywhere you want AKIron, but the fact remains; the Iraqi people will not see you as liberators when you litter the landscape with dead civilians. Saddam and his bunch is forcing your hand ... and winning the "hearts and mind" war."
For a short while it may be like this, but not much beyond that.
A country may fight hopelessly, stupidly and bloodily beyond any sense, but once its over things change quickly.
This war is so far not particularly corpse littered, and rather little compared to Saddam's total victims during his regime. People will also remember those.
Anyway, comparison left away, if the conclusion of a war means dictatorship and hardship pushed away, and the conquered country treated fairly by the victor (econoimical buildup etc), the blood of the innocent seems to get washed away fairly quickly. A good example: WW2.
Were British and US troops Particularly unpopular in Berlin or Munchen in the 50's? Did the Beatles suffer for their nationality in the 60's while playing in Hamburg? Are the Japanese plotting a revenge??? Naaaaaaaaaa
Ya can't it easily compare to WW2.
Don't forget Bush lost his propaganda war before the missels were lauched. 75% of the world were against this war.
He broke international laws.
Arabs have TV , too.
Regards Blitz
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Blitz, we're the big kids on the block and can pretty much do whatever we want. You and 75% if the world(your comments) can piss and moan... but in the end... you will just have to lay there and take it!!!!!!!!
That's the beauty of being us. Misinformed handsomehunkes like yourself can whine and cry, but that's all it is because you are completely impotent. What's that like, having an opinion that doesn't mean a damned thing? Not to mention being completely upside down and wrong.
Have hope though Blitz, there may yet be another handsomehunk liberal in the white house, then the world can go to shiit for several years while morons like yourself think everything is fine. Hopefully, after that, the next republican in the white house will have the same vision as Bush/Reagan and we can once again take on those that would destroy what is good in the world.
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Originally posted by Steve
Blitz, we're the big kids on the block and can pretty much do whatever we want. You and 75% if the world(your comments) can piss and moan... but in the end... you will just have to lay there and take it!!!!!!!!
That's the beauty of being us. Misinformed handsomehunkes like yourself can whine and cry, but that's all it is because you are completely impotent. What's that like, having an opinion that doesn't mean a damned thing? Not to mention being completely upside down and wrong.
Have hope though Blitz, there may yet be another handsomehunk liberal in the white house, then the world can go to shiit for several years while morons like yourself think everything is fine. Hopefully, after that, the next republican in the white house will have the same vision as Bush/Reagan and we can once again take on those that would destroy what is good in the world.
Now THAT was my point.
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Originally posted by Steve
Blitz, we're the big kids on the block and can pretty much do whatever we want. You and 75% if the world(your comments) can piss and moan... but in the end... you will just have to lay there and take it!!!!!!!!
That's the beauty of being us. Misinformed handsomehunkes like yourself can whine and cry, but that's all it is because you are completely impotent. What's that like, having an opinion that doesn't mean a damned thing? Not to mention being completely upside down and wrong.
Have hope though Blitz, there may yet be another handsomehunk liberal in the white house, then the world can go to shiit for several years while morons like yourself think everything is fine. Hopefully, after that, the next republican in the white house will have the same vision as Bush/Reagan and we can once again take on those that would destroy what is good in the world.
And some people wonder why anyone would drive a passenger aircraft into one of our buildings.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
And some people wonder why anyone would drive a passenger aircraft into one of our buildings.
You are a complete moron. Seriously. None of your posts ever contain a rational thought. I can only hope you are sterile, so your blood line stops with you.
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Originally posted by Steve
Blitz, we're the big kids on the block and can pretty much do whatever we want. You and 75% if the world(your comments) can piss and moan... but in the end... you will just have to lay there and take it!!!!!!!!
That's the beauty of being us. Misinformed handsomehunkes like yourself can whine and cry, but that's all it is because you are completely impotent. What's that like, having an opinion that doesn't mean a damned thing? Not to mention being completely upside down and wrong.
Have hope though Blitz, there may yet be another handsomehunk liberal in the white house, then the world can go to shiit for several years while morons like yourself think everything is fine. Hopefully, after that, the next republican in the white house will have the same vision as Bush/Reagan and we can once again take on those that would destroy what is good in the world.
At least i can tell people what I think about this bloody "Aggression War".
Not that much indeed but heh: "Wenn morgen die Welt untergeht würde ich heute einen Afelbaum planzen " :)
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
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Originally posted by Martlet
You are a complete moron. Seriously. None of your posts ever contain a rational thought. I can only hope you are sterile, so your blood line stops with you.
(http://www.dotdoubledot.com/img/avatars/marlin2.jpg)
I think I got one... :D
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Originally posted by blitz
At least i can tell people what I think about this bloody "Aggression War".
Go explain your views to the Iraqi citizens after the "bloody aggression war" is over and they are free.
What a dip ****.
You think we indescriminantly go to war for agressive reasons? You are lucky that the USA has the power we have, as opposed to any other nation on earth.
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Blitz Quote: "At least i can tell people what I think about this bloody "Aggression War"
Only because we saved your arse from communism. If it weren't for us, you'd have your tongue cut out. Oh wait, no you wouldn't. You'd not have the balls for such talk if we weren't around to keep you safe. Take it Blitz, Earth is ours to do with as we see necessary. Whine all you want, this planet is our playground as long as we choose. Take it!!!!!
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The IRA is and never was a threat to the US.
But you're happy that a paramilitary organisation can get into your country, obtain funds to buy arms to murder people and then leave? Would you like any extradition laws to be revoked?
"The US is not interested in halting the spread of organisations that use murder and chaos to impose their will over a majority. It passively supports organisations that have links with 3rd world dictators."
That's a good line.
It's a good job that there are more thoughtful people than yourself, running your country. Otherwise the US would be very much on its own.
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Originally posted by Steve
Blitz Quote: "At least i can tell people what I think about this bloody "Aggression War"
Only because we saved your arse from communism. If it weren't for us, you'd have your tongue cut out. Oh wait, no you wouldn't. You'd not have the balls for such talk if we weren't around to keep you safe. Take it Blitz, Earth is ours to do with as we see necessary. Whine all you want, this planet is our playground as long as we choose. Take it!!!!!
Ok, Steve, i take it.
The entire World is the playground of the USA and you do with it what ya want. I feel better now, thank you, Master.
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
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About damned time... now quickly, take all your computer equipment, a match, and some lighter fluid.. make a big bonfire and NEVER go near a computer again.
Take it!!!!!!
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Originally posted by NUKE
Go explain your views to the Iraqi citizens after the "bloody aggression war" is over and they are free.
What a dip ****.
You think we indescriminantly go to war for agressive reasons? You are lucky that the USA has the power we have, as opposed to any other nation on earth.
I feel guilty now because deep in my heart i know : They love you :)
Regards Blitz
btw Uprising at the ( Saddam hating) Basra at the first day of war was fantastic. All these people waving with their little US flags was so emotional, i loved it.
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
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Originally posted by Steve
About damned time... now quickly, take all your computer equipment, a match, and some lighter fluid.. make a big bonfire and NEVER go near a computer again.
Take it!!!!!!
Wouldn't it be more effective if i use some napalm on my computer equipment?
Damn, i'm short of clusterbombs to hit some soft targets-my ugly bird with only 1 wing comes to mind.
I hate him, he's yelling all night, stupid 1.
After several nights of no sleep, guess what name he got?
Roger ! Bushi :D
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
-
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War
Germany is threatened in no way by America's war against Iraq...it's just plain ridiculous.
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Originally posted by Steve
Blitz, we're the big kids on the block and can pretty much do whatever we want. ......Misinformed handsomehunkes like yourself can whine and cry, but that's all it is because you are completely impotent......handsomehunk liberal in the white house, then the world can go to shiit for several years while morons like yourself think everything ......have the same vision as Bush/Reagan and we can once again take on those that would destroy what is good in the world.
It seems to me that the US has fought to be the dominant global superpower. By default as much as anything else.
Now it has unquestionably reached that status.
That is at once a privilege and a responsibility, but I feel the questions on many people's minds, after a demonstration of military might in the desert, are:
Does the absolute power axiom hold in this case?
and
Quis custodiet custodiens?
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Originally posted by bounder
It seems to me that the US has fought to be the dominant global superpower. By default as much as anything else.
Now it has unquestionably reached that status.
That is at once a privilege and a responsibility, but I feel the questions on many people's minds, after a demonstration of military might in the desert, are:
Does the absolute power axiom hold in this case?
and
Quis custodiet custodiens?
Bounder, we are a very benevolent power by any relative standard. I believe that America is very responsible with the power we have.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Germany is threatened in no way by America's war against Iraq...it's just plain ridiculous.
Germany IS threatened by the moslems Bush & Co steer up with their insane war.
Other than that : pretty lame response, Toad, Sauderkraut, please help!!! :D
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
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Originally posted by NUKE
Bounder, we are a very benevolent power by any relative standard. I believe that America is very responsible with the power we have.
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Originally posted by NUKE Bounder, we are a very benevolent power by any relative standard. I believe that America is very responsible with the power we have
Sorry, not lately-- oooh i forgot : War is just a little extension of politics! , stupid me :D
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
(http://www.dotdoubledot.com/img/avatars/marlin2.jpg)
I think I got one... :D
Attempting to gloss the comment with humor doesn't make you any less of a moron. It doesn't make you any more informed. It doesn't make your opinion any more valid.
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A valid opinion? You are far too full of yourself.
The opinion stands. If this country behaves as if we can do what we want, where we want, when we want with complete disregard to world opinion you can bet your smug bellybutton that the enemies of this nation will only increase.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
A valid opinion? You are far too full of yourself.
The only thing your opinion is good for is a laugh.
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Blitz: You're ranting.
And to avoid confusion, I am not an American, and not particularly fond of this war.
Of course you can find paralells with this and WW2. Arabs have their TV too you said, well, the Germans had Goebbels too. They had their stuff sorted out and were quite convinced about it. Their "information" service also made sure they were up to date with the facts around untill the end of the war, RIGHT???????
Secondly, about your fear about the US stirring up the Mouslims so they pose a threat to other nations, well, I never heard so much (yellow) BS for a long time. Do you really expect the whole world to submit to "possibly aggressive muslims" because somebody dared to offend them??
Want a WW2 paralell? Well, the "unarmed" Germany broke out of its bonds and suddenly had to be accepted as a military power. To ensure "peace", there was a strong movement, i.e. in England fighting to some success to the one sided disarmament of the UK!
When finally the Beast was unleashed with full warfare going on in France, UK troops and RAF squadrons in France had at times quite some problems co-operating with the French because of their fear of enemy counter-action. A famous incident is when French cars and trucks blocked a runway to prevent RAF aircraft to take off,- it could be be anticipated that the Germans would get angry and launch an attack for revenge!
The British took a bold crusade on their hands when declaring war on the German war machine. It may not have been too sensible (for their own possibility of benefit) and it evolved into the largest conflict of human history.
But it was definately inevitable, and I must say that I am glad that they threw the card and got it started rather than waiting until it was their turn to get thrashed and bullied.
The UK and US forces are facing something of the kind today. It won't get any better by ducking your head into the sand.
There is also a big and unmentioned misconception going on, and even while being used as an excuse for a passive situation vs. any country (whatever) who's majority of population is muslims.
There are many kinds of muslims, and most of them are just ordinary and nice people with no special quarrel against me or you.
We must not fall into the trap of equalling muslims with terrorists and Tyrans, - that is just stupid and ignorant generalizing. That is also Saddam's card in the game. He wants to paint things black and white and ignite a holy war between muslims and the rest.
Alternitively, he and his likes are ready to bully anybody submissive enough through the means of terror, i.e. bomb threats, the Jihad question, other muslim uprising, etc, etc.
There has indeed not been much worse around for muslims than self-appointed warlords of the holy-whatever like Saddam trying to catapult an entire culture and religion into war with the rest of the world, while barely being able to feed themselves.
The victims of this whole mess are then perhaps the ordinary muslims, - encircled by people like Saddam and Bin Laden blowing the war-horn, various simpletons regarding them as a constant threat to all humaniry, and then people like you Blitz, looking carefully at them with the label "HANDLE WITH CARE, DO NOT TOUCH".
Bahhhhhhhhhhhh
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What's that like, having an opinion that doesn't mean a damned thing
In the rest of the world (maybe not on this BBS)seems this is called with words like FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY
........., we are a very benevolent power by any relative standard. I believe that America is very responsible with the power we have.
......that was my thinking, but if this BBS is the mirror of the middle american man, I'll have to change my mind:(
P.S. (thats for latin "post scriptum"..... explained only for Martlet):D
I have to correct myself; I refer to the whole BBS, and this is wrong, its only the arrogance and intolerance of few people.
I apologize to the rest of the BBS
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Originally posted by stegor
P.S. (thats for latin "post scriptum"..... explained only for Martlet):D
If you had half the education I had, you'd be twice as smart as you are now.
Go make me a pizza.
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If you had half the education I had, you'd be twice as smart as you are now.
I added this only because in a thread by Naso you said to ignore what was the meaning:)
No intention to offend you, btw , only an act of courtesy
To pair that you can explain me : "Go make me a pizza" , is to be taken as on offence???:confused:
Regarding my education and smartness I dont feel I want to compare them to yours:rolleyes:
BTW, did we ever dine together, that you pretend to know me so well ??? I dont remember
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Originally posted by Angus
When finally the Beast was unleashed with full warfare going on in France, UK troops and RAF squadrons in France had at times quite some problems co-operating with the French because of their fear of enemy counter-action. A famous incident is when French cars and trucks blocked a runway to prevent RAF aircraft to take off,- it could be be anticipated that the Germans would get angry and launch an attack for revenge!
I find this part strange ....
Were you speaking of some event were the british were about to bomb zones under geman control but full of french civilian ?
I've some link if you want.
No that I disagree with the British tacticallly ,but it's far easy to bomb civilian when they are not from your own country.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Bounder, we are a very benevolent power by any relative standard. I believe that America is very responsible with the power we have.
Nuke, I believe you believe that.
And the rest of the world is hoping that's true because theres naff all they can do about it; faced as they are with an expansionist economy and the worlds largest and best equipped military machine.
Quis custodiet custodiens again.
The rest of the world has to have faith that the US will always do the right thing, but convincing them may be very difficult in light of recent events.
The US has reached the position of global dominance by design, not by accident. Why is that? I would venture that it stems, not from some ill-defined desire to make the world a better place, but from a desire to protect and expand the interests of all (or at least) most Americans.
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Originally posted by bounder
Nuke, I believe you believe that.
And the rest of the world is hoping that's true because theres naff all they can do about it; faced as they are with an expansionist economy and the worlds largest and best equipped military machine.
Quis custodiet custodiens again.
The rest of the world has to have faith that the US will always do the right thing, but convincing them may be very difficult in light of recent events.
The US has reached the position of global dominance by design, not by accident. Why is that? I would venture that it stems, not from some ill-defined desire to make the world a better place, but from a desire to protect and expand the interests of all (or at least) most Americans.
Every country obviously looks out for it's own interests first and foremost. America has remarkable power. We are not evil and, in fact, extremely restrained in my opinion.
Not many other countries would be so restrained given the power we have, in my opinion. We are not perfect but I am glad we are here.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
The opinion stands. If this country behaves as if we can do what we want, where we want, when we want with complete disregard to world opinion you can bet your smug bellybutton that the enemies of this nation will only increase.
Wars have been started for lesser things than the arrogance of a nation.
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I am smug. Let them declare war, these countries that would do so over our arrogance. Crushing a couple of them would cause the other countries that run their mouths to stfu. with any luck, it will be France.. though we all know they lack the courage to lead in anything except, perhaps, debasement.
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Originally posted by blitz
Germany IS threatened by the moslems Bush & Co steer up with their insane war.
Suddenly Germany is threatened by the same people that America is no way threatened by, interesting .
So, if terrorists attack Germany now it's americas fault ? Not the criminals ?
And if Iraqi civilians are dying from sanctions it's americas fault ? Not the criminal .
And if the police crackdown on criminals in my area, stirring up criminal circles and my house is vandalized, it is the police's fault, got it .
Thanks for enlightening me .
Oh btw, I'm curious, why should we apologize to Vietnam ? Because we attempted to save their freedom ? Or because we failed ?
Should we also apologize to south korea ?
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Originally posted by Suave
Suddenly Germany is threatened by the same people that America is no way threatened by, interesting .
So, if terrorists attack Germany now it's americas fault ? Not the criminals ?
And if Iraqi civilians are dying from sanctions it's americas fault ? Not the criminal .
And if the police crackdown on criminals in my area, stirring up criminal circles and my house is vandalized, it is the police's fault, got it .
Thanks for enlightening me .
Oh btw, I'm curious, why should we apologize to Vietnam ? Because we attempted to save their freedom ? Or because we failed ?
Should we also apologize to south korea ?
Odd, he has suddenly disappeared from this thread.