Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: gofaster on March 31, 2003, 02:55:18 PM
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I absolutely detest:
(a) N1K2s. I hate them. I hate to fly them. I hate to fly against them. The N1k2 turns a good quality flight sim into a video arcade. I laugh when I see "SoAndSo landed 6 kills in a N1K2." They should be so proud.
(b) Typhoons. I hate them. I hate the way they always come in with rockets and pork fuel and vehicle hangars and generally make a nuisance of themselves. They make base attacks a lop-sided affair moreso than they already are. The offense in a strategy game always has the advantage and the Typhoon simply makes that advantage so much more pronounced. I also hate the way so many Typhoon pilots simply run away from a fight if you can find one that's not over your head.
(c) LA-7s. I hate them as offensive weapons. Specifically, I hate the way pilots will bring an LA-7 to an enemy airbase behind a raid. Don't they know that LA-7s are designed for intercepting incoming raids? If someone is doing a base capture mission, some dope who didn't join the mission briefing will always bring along his little LA-7 because he's too much of a nancy boy to fly a real plane, like a heavy P-38, Me110, Mosquito, or P-47, and help prep the base for capture. And you know he'll hang back and wait for the jabo guys to level the ack before he goes in for easy kills. If you're going to simply try to stab some guy in the back, at least bring a plane that gives a level playing field to your opponent, like a 109.
For me, these 3 planes really reduce the playing quality of the game.
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Only the one i did'nt see :D
But you want to talk cheeze i got a kill once with 2 rounds of hispano hehe
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#1. This is most undeniably a whine fest disguised as a survey.
#2. Being in an IJ squad, I fly the N1K a lot along with the A6M5b, so am I supposed to apologize for this? N1K's, which are the best IJ ride, are laughably easy to kill in the MA by more nimble spits and hurricanes or by the more popular late war speed rides like P51's, 190's and most 109's. Not to mention your La7's and Tippis. If you're flying one of these and you get nailed by Mr. Nik, then you screwed up.
#3. If you don't like the profligate useage of La7's or Typhoons, go to the CT where the rides are restricted.
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1) Tiffie is a always a tough match.
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Having been away for 6-7 months and then come back my view is probably a bit different. I have a lot of problems with all three planes you mentioned but for different reasons:
1) the hi nikki cherry picker
He sits up there at 20k over his own base and waits for incoming attackers...never tries to break up the attacks or clear his own guys six...but is always there to finish you off after a great fight with 3-4 of his team mates.
2) the Tiffie "buzzbomber"....
The 7500 ft 425 ias tiffie that screams back and forth thru the furball...your base or his...selectively spraying 20mm as he works his way thru...almost always a squad guy with good coordination and/or a wingie. If you ever get near him you've got bout 5 sec till someone is screaming down you 6
3) the la-7 "pack"...single la-7's are always ok...yes they can be tough to fight but the plane has its limitations. But they seem to show up in flocks...often all three pilots are "soso" at best but you can't capitalize since there's always another one rolling in.
Truthfully you can complain about just about any plane in the set...
You left out a few
the 25k "rice rocket" zero who seems to never compress as he zooms down to you at 5k
the hurricane "loopamatic" who can do 400 ft loops...those 20mm are always pointing at you.
The b-26 "laser bombers" who seem to carry more fire power than a B-17 formation.
Truth is with so many more players the plane itself isless and less of an issue. Its more positioning and SA that matter.
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Gofaster.. you need not hid ur feeling so much... Express yourself.. Tell us how you really feel... :cool:
I really don't have a plane I don't like.. There are many (ok almost all) ((Ok... OK.. ALL OF THEM!!! THERRE HAPPY!!! ) I can't fly well.. but hey.. I still have fun.... I think I have attempted just about all the planes in there....
So really Gofaster.. it is not really the plane you dislike but the people who use it's "assets" to thier advantage??? (not saying the "asset" should be in the game or not)
(Next comment not directed at you Gofaster.. just general observation)
I have always wondered why there is so much complaining about using the resources avaiable to the best advantage in the game.. but then I look from more a tactical/stratregic look than a game-play look I guess.. Military background I guess...
--mdbaker
XO - 106th Air Group
[url]http://www.106thvag.org[/url
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Originally posted by najdorf
so am I supposed to apologize for this?
No, you're suppose to whine about some other plane that bugs you. Or just keep walking, nothing to see here lol :)
The only planes that drive me crazy are the La-7s, when they have a Spit about 2k behind them.
I spend almost all of my fighter time in Yaks, so I don't mind the La-7 in a 1v1 fight. But I just hate it when I look behind me, and I have an La-7 gaining on me, and right behind him (and fading fast) is a Spit.
Now, if it's just the La-7, it would be a great fight, and if it's just the spit, I can extend and come back for a pass. But when the La-7 runs me down and ties me up long enough for the spit to come in... oh I hate that.
of course if I had better SA this wouldn't happen to begin with, and if I were better with ACM, I'd probably win more often :D
-Sik
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Every plane I "hate" I actually love to encounter in combat, due to the fact that they are usually worth the most perk points!~ More 262's to fly! :D
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Originally posted by humble
2) the Tiffie "buzzbomber"....
The 7500 ft 425 ias tiffie that screams back and forth thru the furball...your base or his...selectively spraying 20mm as he works his way thru...almost always a squad guy with good coordination and/or a wingie. If you ever get near him you've got bout 5 sec till someone is screaming down you 6
Lol, change "Tiffie" to Yak, and that's me. :)
The b-26 "laser bombers" who seem to carry more fire power than a B-17 formation.
If you ever come at a B-26 formation from above and behind, they do have pretty much the same fire power as a B-17, Plus they are smaller Targets!
-Sik
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Originally posted by najdorf
#1. This is most undeniably a whine fest disguised as a survey.
#2. Being in an IJ squad, I fly the N1K a lot along with the A6M5b, so am I supposed to apologize for this? N1K's, which are the best IJ ride, are laughably easy to kill in the MA by more nimble spits and hurricanes or by the more popular late war speed rides like P51's, 190's and most 109's. Not to mention your La7's and Tippis. If you're flying one of these and you get nailed by Mr. Nik, then you screwed up.
#3. If you don't like the profligate useage of La7's or Typhoons, go to the CT where the rides are restricted.
#1 - Heck ya its a whine fest! Feel free to join in!
#2 - If you've been in the MA for more than 3 months and still fly the N1K2, then you truly are a El1+e P1l0+. If you're Bishop then you just compounded your elITEne5S. The Zero isn't so bad - its got its own issues to deal with.
#3 - Yes, I do fly the CT, mostly so I can do the Ki fighter against Spitfires. The N1K2 is rarely offered there.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
The only planes that drive me crazy are the La-7s, when they have a Spit about 2k behind them.
I spend almost all of my fighter time in Yaks, so I don't mind the La-7 in a 1v1 fight. But I just hate it when I look behind me, and I have an La-7 gaining on me, and right behind him (and fading fast) is a Spit.
Now, if it's just the La-7, it would be a great fight, and if it's just the spit, I can extend and come back for a pass. But when the La-7 runs me down and ties me up long enough for the spit to come in... oh I hate that.
of course if I had better SA this wouldn't happen to begin with, and if I were better with ACM, I'd probably win more often :D
-Sik
Or if Rooks weren't outnumbered 3:1 by Bishops every hour of every day. But that's a whole different whine. :cool:
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Originally posted by gofaster
Or if Rooks weren't outnumbered 3:1 by Bishops every hour of every day. But that's a whole different whine. :cool:
lol, be careful, you're approaching whine "critical mass"... THIS THREAD IS GONNA BLOW!!!!
-Sik
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Every plane I "hate" I actually love to encounter in combat, due to the fact that they are usually worth the most perk points!~ More 262's to fly! :D
I get plenty of perks out of my Yak9Uber by splashing P-51s and LA-7s and landing them, and then being outnumbered and getting that 1.50 perk bonus from the Bishop hordes certainly helps too!
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Originally posted by humble
You left out a few
the 25k "rice rocket" zero who seems to never compress as he zooms down to you at 5k
the hurricane "loopamatic" who can do 400 ft loops...those 20mm are always pointing at you.
The b-26 "laser bombers" who seem to carry more fire power than a B-17 formation.
Truth is with so many more players the plane itself isless and less of an issue. Its more positioning and SA that matter.
During the day hours (US) there's only 150 to 200 people in the MA, so most of the encounters tend to be 4 or 5 Bishops vs 2 Rooks or Knights, so you don't get the big Typhoon baitball feeding frenzy like you do at night (US) when the arena is approaching its maximum and the furballs can number into the 'teens and twenties. With the low daylight numbers, most of the fighting is turnfighting. Surprisingly, nobody brings a Zero, probably because the N1K2 can do the same job better. Or the Spitfire V or IX.
The trick to busting the B-26 is to go in below the beltline and aim up. ;)
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The plane I hate the most should be highly perked!!! This plane is way overused and can fly unbelievable distances when fully fueled. The plane I'm referring to is the C-47. Arrghhh!!! :eek:
It carries troops and supplies faster than an M3 going down any mountain ever imained going. Not only that, the troops & supplies can still bail out even if the plane is missing a wing!!! And just TRY to turn fight one of those bad boys. They turn on a dime, then laugh at you as you auger.
But the worst part is that with all the supplies they can carry - both field & vehicle - THEY NEVER CARRY BEER!!! How can you fight with no beer?!
I HATE the C-47. :p
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Originally posted by Sikboy
quote:
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Originally posted by gofaster
Or if Rooks weren't outnumbered 3:1 by Bishops every hour of every day. But that's a whole different whine.
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lol, be careful, you're approaching whine "critical mass"... THIS THREAD IS GONNA BLOW!!!!
-Sik
Maybe I'll help it along by flying a Zero and a Yak for the rest of the week. :p
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The plane's I most hate to see coming for me in the MA are the 109's. No matter what I'm in, I feel at a disadvantage. I think it's because most of the 109 pilits are very good. Every now and again, you'll find a nwebie tooling around and face planting one not knowing or at least understanding the compression problems, but I usually come up against guys that can really make those planes dance.
But then again, I'm not very good, so it's probably not that hard for them.
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N1K better than Zeke at low level turn fite, not hardly.
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1. Typh's are prolly the most annoying because of their speed
2. N1k2's do things that aren't physcially possible :eek:
3. spit IX's combine N1k2's & typh's :mad:
all other planes in the MA pretty much can be cannon fodder for my 190 :D
on a side note about the sucicide typh/p47/p51 raids:
why not make hangars 5K or more to kill... a bomber could take 1 out, but JABO pilots would be less willing to put their ord on a hangar knowing that somone else will get the credit for killing it.
make the "attack" of fighters limited to strategic targets at airfields and towns.
oh well my 2¢ to this whine :D
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Originally posted by najdorf
The plane's I most hate to see coming for me in the MA are the 109's.
I have trouble with the 109s, because I never learned how to tell them apart at a glance. When I come across a 109, I'm never sure if it's going to Energy fight, or turn on me, or what. I think this gives them an advantage against me in the opening moves of the fight.
-Sik
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It's not the planes we hate, its the numbers we dislike. Spit, niki, la7 , ponies oh my. More people need to learn ACM rather than flying fast in straight lines.
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Yak9U.
But you may add Spit/n1k2/La7 to the bag because we have a MA infested with zillions of them.
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I hate flying P51s. They're average at everything. There are a few people that make a lie of my comment, but I can't fly P51s without making myself look more stupid than usual.
palef
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Originally posted by gofaster
I absolutely detest:
(a) N1K2s. I hate them. I hate to fly them. I hate to fly against them. The N1k2 turns a good quality flight sim into a video arcade. I laugh when I see "SoAndSo landed 6 kills in a N1K2." They should be so proud.
(b) Typhoons. I hate them. I hate the way they always come in with rockets and pork fuel and vehicle hangars and generally make a nuisance of themselves. They make base attacks a lop-sided affair moreso than they already are. The offense in a strategy game always has the advantage and the Typhoon simply makes that advantage so much more pronounced. I also hate the way so many Typhoon pilots simply run away from a fight if you can find one that's not over your head.
(c) LA-7s. I hate them as offensive weapons. Specifically, I hate the way pilots will bring an LA-7 to an enemy airbase behind a raid. Don't they know that LA-7s are designed for intercepting incoming raids? If someone is doing a base capture mission, some dope who didn't join the mission briefing will always bring along his little LA-7 because he's too much of a nancy boy to fly a real plane, like a heavy P-38, Me110, Mosquito, or P-47, and help prep the base for capture. And you know he'll hang back and wait for the jabo guys to level the ack before he goes in for easy kills. If you're going to simply try to stab some guy in the back, at least bring a plane that gives a level playing field to your opponent, like a 109.
For me, these 3 planes really reduce the playing quality of the game.
AHEM!!!!! you forgot the SPIT dweebs and the TAMPONS (tempests) to add in that list. heres why.
i hate spits like spit9 or 14 because it doesnt take alot of time to master those stuff.
tempest is too fast as the 262s but it takes hard work to un-perk that plane
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1. Typhoon - Not the plane itself, but the way they are used. Seeing hoardes of Typhs flying around, thinking that they doing something 'organized', and then about half of them augering as they lob rockets and bombs in a suicidal fashion.. It makes me wanna puke.
2. N1K2 - Hate those four cannons and 900 rounds of ammo. Hate them because they are so predictable, and hate them for constantly reminding me of how some planes can hit at 500~800 yards distances and knock out a vital part.
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hate La7s-never fly them
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Originally posted by najdorf
Every now and again, you'll find a nwebie tooling around and face planting one not knowing or at least understanding the compression problems,
But then again, I'm not very good, so it's probably not that hard for them.
did you get any kills on me? :)
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Any plane on my 6 I really hate them and of coarse and a hole out there that does every thing he can to get a face shot on you even when you are doing everything you can to avoid it.
Hint to newbies the object is to try and get behind the plane your trying to kill and shoot from there. Not try to get infront of the plane and shoot headon with a ram thrown in for good measure and both plane spiral down in flames.
One last time newbies the object is to get behind your enemy and shoot him down and you fly away undamaged. Not get infront shoot him in the face and crash into him so both die.
Just my opinion YOU could be wrong then again maybe I am right.
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Any plane banking away from my tail 100yds away leaving me sitting there cringing just waiting for my tail to CRACK! off after the lag. :mad:
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gofaster, go yourself.
The Japanese have one fighter that is concurent with the MA speed demons and we'll use it because we have to. Frankly we prefer the A6M5b, but it simply has too many shortcomings when fighting P-51s and Fw190D-9s.
Take your sactimonious attitude and stuff it.
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Damn bucha whining twits!
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I don't hate any of the planes. I love em all :). Lately, I have been doing my part to make more people hate the C205...cod, I like that bird :D.
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i personally hate rude's (*#& f4f. I had a few too many collisions with that dang thing recently!
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Originally posted by Karnak
gofaster, go yourself.
lol, that's the spirit!
I always liked the Ki-61 better in the MA myself.
-Sik
Sanctimounious lol
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I hate 190's :rolleyes: ;)
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
I hate 190's :rolleyes: ;)
That plane (190s) takes time to master it. Well if you are getting shot down by spit dweeebs (spit IX) while you're in 190 plane, all you have to do is to avoid them by not fighting them during turn-fights and make sure you have more altitude than the spit IX and dive for the kill.
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Only planes I dislike fighting are N1K's and green zekes... The rest are cannon fodder.
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why many people here dislike typoons?
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
why many people here dislike typoons?
Because they're fast, turn well, and have 4 hizookas.
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Originally posted by wetrat
Because they're fast, turn well, and have 4 hizookas.
then why is it not perked like the tempest?
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If I only have limited flying time (like 30mins or 1 hour), i fly in "ARCADE" mode by flying spits, n1k2-Js, and la-7s. Flying those planes decreases your stress level because you dont have to worry about being embarassed when you stall. When you fly those planes that i mention above, it would be like a trip to a massage center because they relax your stress level and they relax your palms as you gently move your joystick for the kill.
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The LA7 is the bain of my AH existence, I am normally on jabo mission with fighter and even with higher alt and energy a low la7 will climb too you after you drop ord, and still catch most any figher or light bomber, they don't need SA, they don's need ACM, they just need speed to get cheap kills. I fly everything in the inventory and the la7 is the lamest ride in the set, I very rarely fly one, only when squad ops require it, because it would be hypocritical to fly something I so dispise. Just my own rants and raves opinions may vary :p
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
they relax your stress level and they relax your palms as you gently move your joystick
^^ Anyone else's sick mind catch this? :D
Oh yeah, I hate LA-7s.
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My whine-o-meter is pinging red! Flee, this thread is gonna blow!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Thanks for the hint. I fly la7 and tiffie regularly, now I need to add niki to this list to get a status of a Total Dweebish Noob. :)
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Jeeeeeeeeeezuz whats with the Tiffie-bashing?
I can remember when there was only me, Manedog, and Wardog who flew the tiffie!
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I can remember when there was only me, Manedog, and Wardog who flew the tiffie!
Ahem. And Calamari!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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quote:
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
they relax your stress level and they relax your palms as you gently move your joystick
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^^ Anyone else's sick mind catch this?
Oh yeah, I hate LA-7s.
Originally posted by Tarmac
^^ Anyone else's sick mind catch this? :D
Oh yeah, I hate LA-7s.
aw c'mon just admit that la-7, spits, and n1k2-Js relaxes you when you fly it:D
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Originally posted by gofaster
The trick to busting the B-26 is to go in below the beltline and aim up. ;)
The best way to bust of a bomber formation is to come in high and dive down at a steep angle, aiming the nose of your plane between the cockpit and upper turret. At that angle and speed you're traveling at, the gunners on the bomber formation will have a tough time tracking you.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
That plane (190s) takes time to master it.
Since when is running considered "mastering" the FW190?
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
then why is it not perked like the tempest?
Because there's no reason to. The Typhoon isn't an uber plane and for that matter neither is the Tempest, and franky it shouldn't be perked.
Ack-Ack
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Well, this tour I spent most of my time in Hogs, Typhoons, Mustangs, Ki-61 and Tempests, with some F6F thrown in because it was the squad plane this month.
I had no trouble with the those aircraft generally listed as "most hated". It's all about how you deal with them. I always challenge fast fighters like the La-7, Dora and P-51. Any of those cannon armed fighters I list above can handle these three, if for no other reason than because even the most brief snapshot from 4 Hispanos will rip them to shreds. If there's fast fighters around, I'm gonna keep my speed up and minimize their advantage.
It boils down to SA and tactics, with ACM skills back in 3rd. If you're solid in the first two, the 3rd seldom gets tested. If you're poor at the first two, the 3rd is necessary. If you have all three down, you are a certified killer, no matter what you or the enemy flies. Of course, bad luck has its way of intruding on the very best pilots too.
Seriously, I don't dislike any of the aircraft in the game. I'll fly any one of them and dread none of them.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by gofaster
I absolutely detest:
(a) N1K2s.
(b) Typhoons.
(c) LA-7s.
I don't hate any plane, I enjoy shooting them all down equally.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by akak
Because there's no reason to. The Typhoon isn't an uber plane and for that matter neither is the Tempest, and franky it shouldn't be perked.
Ack-Ack
lol, i know you're just kidding about the tempest.
:D
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Originally posted by akak
Since when is running considered "mastering" the FW190?
Ack-Ack
running away is the only option left if you are going to be attacked by spits (i never turn-fight a spit when i use 190s). 190s can turn-fight well against corsairs,
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
running away is the only option left if you are going to be attacked by spits (i never turn-fight a spit when i use 190s). 190s can turn-fight well against corsairs,
If you have to run from a Spitfire in a FW190, then you are very far from 'mastering' it.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Shane
lol, i know you're just kidding about the tempest.
:D
Nope. IMO, the only planes that should be perked are the Me262 and Me163.
Ack-Ack
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BTW, Ack-Ack, do u have any kind of experience on any kind of 190?? You sounds like me talking about eskimal food.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
BTW, Ack-Ack, do u have any kind of experience on any kind of 190?? You sounds like me talking about eskimal food.
It's eskimo food.
I've flown the FW190A-8 and D-9 quite a bit in the DA and H2H against squad mates to see how it handles in AH, as well as flying it in AW and WB. So I've got a pretty good idea on what an FW190 can and can't do.
So I stand by my comment...if you have to run from a Spitfire in a FW190, you're far from mastering it, if such a thing is possible.
Ack-Ack
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1 - WB/AW 190s/Spits are way different than AH ones.
2 - DA or H/H are not multibogey environments where you are going to be outnumbered suddenly by an horde of bishops at any alt. And more than probably you are not loading 100% fuel + DT in DA or H/H (typical configuration for MA 190A5 or 75% + DT for A8/D9).
3 - 190A5/A8/D9 are different rides. Only A8 and F8 are really similar planes.
4 - Your particular conception of 190 tactic of aproaching at light speed, firing and then keep running at light speed may be good for planes with long range weapons like P47/P38/P51/F4U/F6F, but not when you need to fire at 350 yards or less to have any chance of hiting the target. You are missing completely what 190s do to have any success, in fact you are describing what I see every time I discover a 25K P38/P51 over me, dive, spray from 1k or more and keep running until you cant see the icon anymore.
If you want to give us leassons of 190 handling, you better fly them first.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
1 - WB/AW 190s/Spits are way different than AH ones.
You'd be surprised on how small the difference actually is and besides, ACM is ACM no matter the game.
2 - DA or H/H are not multibogey environments where you are going to be outnumbered suddenly by an horde of bishops at any alt. And more than probably you are not loading 100% fuel + DT in DA or H/H (typical configuration for MA 190A5 or 75% + DT for A8/D9).
When my squad uses the DA or H2H it's not for 1v1 fights, usually 4v4 in H2H or last man standing in the DA (sometimes the entire squad of 32 takes part in these slug matches). So yes, it can be considered a multi-threat enviroment.
3 - 190A5/A8/D9 are different rides. Only A8 and F8 are really similar planes.
Of course there are difference between plane variants but it still doesn't take away the fact that all versions are E fighters and are best employed when using such tactics.
4 - Your particular conception of 190 tactic of aproaching at light speed, firing and then keep running at light speed may be good for planes with long range weapons like P47/P38/P51/F4U/F6F, but not when you need to fire at 350 yards or less to have any chance of hiting the target.
My perception of FW190 tactics aren't based on how I've seen the majority that fly them, it's based on what the plane is capable and not capable of. I don't know about others that fly U.S. planes but I can't hit anything beyond 400yards so I rarely fire at targets beyond that range.
You are missing completely what 190s do to have any success, in fact you are describing what I see every time I discover a 25K P38/P51 over me, dive, spray from 1k or more and keep running until you cant see the icon anymore.
Hardly, that's why I stand by my statement that if you're in a FW190 and you have to run from a Spitfire, then you need some refresher courses on proper E fighting techniques, especially if you're the one that initiates the fight.
If you want to give us leassons of 190 handling, you better fly them first.
Here's Lesson #1:
Step 1 : See bogie 5k below you
Step 2 : Dive on bogie 5k below you
Step 3 : Blow past bogie and run
Step 4 : Repeat Steps 1-3
I know you hate to admit it but it takes no more skill to fly a FW190 than it does flying an La-7 or, dare I say it, a Spitfire. So don't mind my laughter when someone says that it takes skill to fly a FW190 because all planes take skill to be successful in. And one more tip because I'm in a good mood...it's the pilot and not the plane, after all the plane only does what the pilot tells it to.
Ack-Ack
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Here's Lesson #1:
Step 1 : See bogie 5k below you
Step 2 : Dive on bogie 5k below you
Step 3 : Blow past bogie and run
Step 4 : Repeat Steps 1-3
Thanks for your deep demostration of 190 knowledge, BTW lessons like that are applicable even to a C202. I may be wrong, but reading comments like that, I sincerely think u have absoultelly no clue about 190s in general. In fact, as far as I see, u have 0, NULL, nada, no experience at all flying 190s in MA, and very little experience flying against them in MA. Next time, U better start with leason #1 for P38L. And if u cant hit with it further than 400 yards, you have a serious lack of aiming skill with that plane.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
In fact, as far as I see, u have 0, NULL, nada, no experience at all flying 190s in MA, and very little experience flying against them in MA.
True, I've hardly flown the FW190 in the MA and that's because I rarely fly any other plane than the P-38L in the MA. As for experience fighting against them, why is that I win the majority of fights against them?
Next time, U better start with leason #1 for P38L. And if u cant hit with it further than 400 yards, you have a serious lack of aiming skill with that plane.
I've never made it a secret that my main weakness is my lack of accuracy, that's why I fire when I'm close in. This is to insure that whatever I do hit, usually goes down and I don't waste ammo spraying wildly. Not many planes can survive a close in shot with 4x. 50 cals and 20mm.
And in any case, it still doesn't take away the fact that it takes skill in all planes in order to be successful in it, whether it's the FW190 or a Spitfire.
ack-ack
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<
> Everyone,
I still have a hard time understanding why people are called "spit dweebs" "Run-190s" etc. I mean really, a plane does not make someone a better/worse pilot. I don't claim to be any great fighter ace, but I shoot down the Spit IX more than any other plane except the pony, and I am NOT one of the best pilots, so as far as I am concerned, BRING 'EM ON! There are excellent pilots for all planes. I have flown against incredible pilots that were in "not so dweeb planes." Every plane has a strength(s) and weakness(es). Far be it from me to call someone a "dweeb" because they shoot me down in their La-7, Tiffie, whatever... regardless of how good they are or aren't, they flew away and I didn't. Who's the dweeb now? If you find yourself being shot down more often by one of these "dweebs", then I suggest the finger is being pointed in the wrong direction. Every plane can be shot down. The key is matching the strenghts of the plane you are flying with the weaknesses of the plane your enemy is flying.
By the way, I am a DWEEB I guess. I absoluteley LOVE THE LA-7. Anyone who says 'It's EASY to get a kill in a La-7" is only trying to sound macho, IMHO. It is a very difficult plane to master (something I have not done) and an inexperienced pilot has/would have a difficult time scoring kills. I hate flying the Spit, I'm better off in a glider.
Suggestion: For 3 days- write down every death, how you died,what plane shot you down, and what was the mode of attack used. You will be surprised at the results, I think. You will find a common denominator among deaths. Sure helped me learn a lot about my flying style.
Good Luck to all!!! Check 6!
<> Major MaNiaCaL
~*81st*~ Krewsaderz
ROOKS!!!!!!!!!!
Getting shot down sucks.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I know you hate to admit it but it takes no more skill to fly a FW190 than it does flying an La-7 or, dare I say it, a Spitfire. So don't mind my laughter ...
Don't mind mine too! This made the one for my day :D
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The only plane that bothers me is the me262, and they wouldn't bother me if I didn't see them so often .
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
As for experience fighting against them, why is that I win the majority of fights against them?
Experience flying against them means you have killed a lot of them and/or you have died to them a lot of times also. Your % of success does not count when you have had so few encounters with 190s.
BTW, I have had also few A-A encounters against P38s, based on them I would say any P38 in MA will came from 25k, dive, spray and flee again to 25k far far away. Does that mean this is the way to use this plane, does that means that all P38 drivers use it that way? Your misconception about MA 190s is absolute. But, if you really think that killing in a 190 is just as easy as killing with a Spit, then your misconception about any plane in MA is total.
Better than talking so much, pick up a 190 for a tour and then came here with results.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Originally posted by Karnak
gofaster, go yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol, that's the spirit!
I always liked the Ki-61 better in the MA myself.
The Japanese need a better plane set, which is why they need the Ki-84 Hayate (complete with high-g turn wing bending) or the Ki-100, which is the Ki-61 with a radial engine. But the flight model of the N1k2 defies the basic laws of physics and cheapens the game terribly.
I've always though the A6M2 was the Japanese secret weapon in the MA. This morning I shot down 2 Mustangs and a 202 in it before inadvertantly digging a wing into the side of a mountain. Sure its slow, but it climbs well and is ready to dogfight as soon as the gear leaves the ground. As long as you're not chasing Typhoons, you have a chance at getting a kill or two.
The Ki-61 is too brightly painted and easy to spot in a crowd. That shiny red and silver scheme just screams "Here I am - shoot me!". I think something a bit more clandestine would suit the Ki-61 just fine, like the photo I've attached.
(http://www.squadron.com/old/ki61jlc/ki61jlc_5.jpg)
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Originally posted by akak
Because there's no reason to. The Typhoon isn't an uber plane and for that matter neither is the Tempest, and franky it shouldn't be perked.
Ack-Ack
Stop! Stop! My ribs are breaking from laughing so hard!
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Originally posted by akak
Since when is running considered "mastering" the FW190?
Ack-Ack
lol AKAK...
my vote is the LA7 or some 51s that run and dont fight.
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i hate 110's...how are you supposed to mindlessly HO if they have bigger guns than you:D
and i hate kates...wheres the challenge in bringing one down there hardly armed and cant maouver well...
same thing goes for stukas b17's b26's(except nod2000's) lancasters ju88's HE111(oops we dont have one yet HINT!!) and m16's
oh and typhoon and tempest hispano cannons are pathetic....the hurri2c is much better
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Originally posted by gofaster
But the flight model of the N1k2 defies the basic laws of physics and cheapens the game terribly.
Do you really find any difference between N1K2 and Spit? In the worst case, N1K2 is outclimbed and outdived by the Spit and both have the same hover capability.
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Mandoble have you allready forgotten how the community proved at great legnth how the n1k2 has no more "hover" ability than your life partner the 190d9 ?
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The A6M2 man that plane is uber if can dive at over 400mph and still have the wings and some controll all be it limited but can still bounce with the best of them not to menition probally the best turner and looper in the game I hate fighting aginst these but I like flying em.
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Originally posted by Suave
Mandoble have you allready forgotten how the community proved at great legnth how the n1k2 has no more "hover" ability than your life partner the 190d9 ?
Proved?? yes, I've forgotten.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Jeeeeeeeeeezuz whats with the Tiffie-bashing?
I can remember when there was only me, Manedog, and Wardog who flew the tiffie!
Don't think this is a bash thread...more like a whine thread :)
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Proved?? yes, I've forgotten.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48553&perpage=50&highlight=mandoland&pagenumber=1
Straight out of mandoland .
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is there a way to fight a spit (spit 9) during turn-fights while you're in a 190 A8?
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yeah dont turn fight it
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Experience flying against them means you have killed a lot of them and/or you have died to them a lot of times also. Your % of success does not count when you have had so few encounters with 190s.
Since I've only been here for a little over a year, of course I don't have your vast experience in fighting the FW190 :rolleyes:
But let me see, I've enountered the FW190 (all variants) a total of 423 times in the MA and have only died by them 141 times (death tally includes deaths in bombers, GVs and fighters). Even without your vast experience, I seem to be able to handle any engagements against the FW190 quite fine and more often than not, end up the victor.
It would be much easier to show you in the DA, you're FW190 vs. my P-38L. I'm sure with your vast experience, you'd make short work of me :rolleyes:
If you want to split hairs about experience, I've been fighting and shooting down FW190's for 10 years in various sims. I know that you're going to say that this isn't AW/WB so that experience doesn't count but like I said before ACM is ACM no matter the game. The same tactics used to shoot down the FW190 in AW/WB still work great in AH. And frankly, the best FW190 pilots I've encountered were in AW. I shudder to think what a guy like =BILL could do in here with the Dora, or Domen in the A-8.
Better than talking so much, pick up a 190 for a tour and then came here with results.
One could say the same for you to do it in a Spitfire, N1K2 or any of the other planes you love to whine about.
I don't have to fly the FW190 for a tour to know what it can or can't do. I've fought against it for many years to know what it's capable of.
And from your comments about the various planes you whine so dramatically about, the same can't be said for you.
Ack-Ack
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and pray for a overshoot
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
is there a way to fight a spit (spit 9) during turn-fights while you're in a 190 A8?
Yep Ike, if you have the initial angles advantage, and 300 mph ti play with, over a 300 mph or slower spit, you can pull a 180d turn following him and have a shooting opportunity before zooming vertical. In most cases, the spit will complete a 360d turn before following you in the vertical, this is your second, and probably last, chance of reversing and firing at him before angles and E are equalized. At this point A8 will be in a total dissadvantage if you keep into a turning battle.
AkAk, I talk about planes that I fight and kill or I'm killed by them more than 100 times per tour, not about planes that I rarely fight more than 10 times per tour. You comment about DA P38 vs D9 only confirms that you have no clue at all about the correct 190 operation in MA (and no, it is not keeping it at 400 mph while spraying and running). BTW, I talk about AH 190s, not about CFS/AW/WB/some nintendo or gameboy one.
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I think the La7 is the only plane in AH that defies the laws of physics. I saw it do things a plane shouldn't do :P
-HO...turns after me, catches me. I was flying straight and level in a plane supposedly faster than the La7
-Tried flying it once....I just like how it climbs at impossible angles of attack and still accelerating upwards.
Seriously now...something is wrong.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
True, I've hardly flown the FW190 in the MA and that's because I rarely fly any other plane than the P-38L in the MA. As for experience fighting against them, why is that I win the majority of fights against them?
ack-ack
Let me give you one example of 190 tactics displayed by Mandoble, which actually annoyed me a bit on this occasion.
I took off from an Island field on the pizza map. I took up a P-51D with two 500 lb bombs and rockets. As I climb out headed towards a Bish field, I see a red dot on the field dar heading to where I had taken off. I also see a green dot in the area. Just to make sure it's not a buff formation about to pork the strats, I reverse and head back. As I arrive over the field I spot Mandoble hauling bellybutton in his Dora with a P-51 hot on his backside. Mandoble is heading towards me, so I pickle the ordnance and take a snapshot at the Mustang as it goes by. My rounds knock off one of its elevators. Reversing, I cut off the P-51 and force him to maneuver. Just as I saddle up for the kill, in roars Mandoble, nearly flying through me with tons of E and blasts the Mustang.
This was solid teamwork right up until the time when Mandoble decided that the best way to thank someone for clearing his six (and maybe saving his bellybutton too), was to snatch the easy kill.
Now, I don't know if that's typical behavior for Mandoble, or just a momentary lapse in judgement, but it sure doesn't encourage teammates to clear his tail. If you talk to some of my squadies, they would say that this IS typical Mandoble behavior.
Come to think of it, Ack-ack blasted my Ki-61 a few days ago. I was RTB with a pilot wound and lots of damage from some Spit dweeb that tried to HO me (the Spit V exploded for his trouble). Blacking out every 30 seconds or so, I finally headed for the field when I get an urgent sounding, "break Widewing, P-38 on ya!" Well, not being able to see all I could was try to turn... Too late.
It was a heck of a shot considering that he must have had a tough deflection angle.
This was just the second time in the past year that I encountered Ack-ack. That's too bad, cause it's always challenging to fight a P-38 piloted by someone who knows how to fly it.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Come to think of it, Ack-ack blasted my Ki-61 a few days ago. I was RTB with a pilot wound and lots of damage from some Spit dweeb that tried to HO me (the Spit V exploded for his trouble). Blacking out every 30 seconds or so, I finally headed for the field when I get an urgent sounding, "break Widewing, P-38 on ya!" Well, not being able to see all I could was try to turn... Too late.
It was a heck of a shot considering that he must have had a tough deflection angle.
This was just the second time in the past year that I encountered Ack-ack. That's too bad, cause it's always challenging to fight a P-38 piloted by someone who knows how to fly it.
My regards,
Widewing
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by vorticon
yeah dont turn fight it (190 A8 vs Spit 9)
Is it possible to run away from the spit and go for the HO in 190 A8?
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Originally posted by Widewing
Now, I don't know if that's typical behavior for Mandoble, or just a momentary lapse in judgement
Widewing, probably I'm wrong because I remember the P51 and the rook P51, but not the name of the rook pilot (I can remember planes, but hardly names, perhaps it was you), but if the encounter is the same I remember, I was RTB lo on fuel with a P51 far at my six that took off from that field, not really a danger considering the distance, the big speed difference and that I was very light. In any case, that encounter may not be the one you described.
You may consider I reversed to steal a kill or just to help the alone rook P51 against the P51. BTW, your presentation and interpretation of the facts are very clear: to steal it.
About typical behaviours, I can remember some six cleaned while you were flying navy blue planes.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
AkAk, I talk about planes that I fight and kill or I'm killed by them more than 100 times per tour, not about planes that I rarely fight more than 10 times per tour. You comment about DA P38 vs D9 only confirms that you have no clue at all about the correct 190 operation in MA (and no, it is not keeping it at 400 mph while spraying and running). BTW, I talk about AH 190s, not about CFS/AW/WB/some nintendo or gameboy one.
Since more often than not, the FW190's I've encountered will usually run when encountered co-alt or when they've realized that they've bitten off more than they can chew. This is not to say that the FW190 is a bad plane, it's clearly not but the majority that fly aren't aggressive enough to the point of being timid. You know how many times I've encountered an FW190 co-alt that would just reverse and run and only come back and try to engage when they've seen me break off to look for other targets? Or those that come diving in with an altitude advantage and then run after their first pass because they couldn't get a quick kill? But the funniest time was when I was in a Ju-87D-3 on the deck and in come two FW190D-9s from 10,000ft and engage me. For 5 minutes I fought them off and shot them up pretty badly and they both ended up breaking off and leaving the fight. Maybe it's the leather chaps the FW190 pilots wear but when most enter that cockpit, it seems their testicle fortitude gets left behind in the hanger.
I hate to burst your bubble but experience, unlike scores, doesn't get reset at the end of every tour. Experience is accumalitive.
While AW/WB obviously have/had different flight models than AH, it does not take away the basic fact that tactics (in this case ACM) does not change, no matter what game you're flying in. A Hi Yo-Yo in AW is done the same way as you would do one in WB or AH. Why do you think that players that have come from other sims like AW and WB have a much easier time getting the hang of AH? It's because of experience that they've gained from playing AW/WB. In other words, it's accumulated knowledge.
Ack-Ack
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Ok akak, your conclussion based on your encounters with 190s is clear, all they can do is just to keep running or diving while screaming all the time.
Based on my few encounters with P38 the conclussion would be also clear, all they can do is to dive from the stratosphere, spray like mad and go again to the stratosphere.
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I think I'm one of the better 190 pilots out here, but I'd disagree with the statement the 190 (any of them) is as easy to fly as an LA-7.
I think it is probably comparable to the Spit5 in 'skill level'- granted, the two take totally different 'skill sets' if you will, but the overall ability of the pilot has to be higher in a 190 to have the same success as one would in an LA-7.
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Originally posted by JB73
2. N1k2's do things that aren't physcially possible :eek:
Glad somebody else noticed that. If Iraq's Air Force had
10 nikis, 5 La7's, we would still be fighting for control of the
air.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Glad somebody else noticed that. If Iraq's Air Force had
10 nikis, 5 La7's, we would still be fighting for control of the
air.
N1K2s aren't the wonder weapon some make them out to be. A lot of planes perform better in the vertical and at speed above 300mph, the N1K2 doesn't turn all that well. Also, depending on the plane you fly, stall fighting is another good option to use against the N1K2.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
You may consider I reversed to steal a kill or just to help the alone rook P51 against the P51. BTW, your presentation and interpretation of the facts are very clear: to steal it.
About typical behaviours, I can remember some six cleaned while you were flying navy blue planes.
I do not consider that "stealing" a kill. "stealing" to me is pumping lead into an already disabled aircraft. It was, however, unnecessary as I had him cold, just 400 yards behind. The best way to help was to lay back and cover the attacking fighter. Should I lose my advantage, then I would hand off to you and cover your six. That's teamwork, rather than two dogs tugging at the same piece of meat. As it was I was a bit disappointed. Whenever I see a teammate saddled up, I simply cover him till he gets the kill. However, if he has not yet gained position and I have a shot, I'll take it. Even if I'm working a con for 5 minutes, if I haven't managed to gain position, I don't complain if someone smacks him down. I had my opportunity.
I'm sure people have cleared my six on occasion and I'm always grateful. I also recall that you have given me several "check 6" calls. Again, thank you. Likewise, no one gives out more "check 6" calls than I do. Whenever feasible, I will attempt to drive an enemy off of the tail of a teammate. There are exceptions, such as when the SA challenged dives into a low horde. These knuckleheads are on their own, I won't compound their error. Generally speaking, I try to demonstrate courtesy towards teammates. There are some guys I know that I cannot depend on, either because they are still way down on the learning curve, or they simply don't care about anyone but themselves. Still, I'll help them simply because a dead teammate is really useless.
Anyway, I won't hold it against you, but I do think that you took advantage of an easy opportunity. Rest assured that I would do the same thing every time, because it's the right thing to do. In the same manner you can count on your six being clear if I'm covering it.
My regards,
Widewing
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I hate Dweeb(dive) niners
Why they can run, dive and climb away from my p38
Also they have a big amount of ammo.
So they can cherry spray pick on me withouth being punished.
It also is the worst plane to get a positive kd on.
On the nik la7 stang and spit i have a positive kd
But the D9 .......
i just wonder why it isn't perked.
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There will always be a fastest plane and there will always be dweebs that use it to run from any situation where they might be at a disadvantage. Thankfully the La7 does has some weaknesses compared to the other speed planes.
I don't hate planes, I save my hate for players and squads.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
I don't hate planes, I save my hate for players and squads.
Uh, gee, thanks.
palef
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
N1K2s aren't the wonder weapon some make them out to be. A lot of planes perform better in the vertical and at speed above 300mph, the N1K2 doesn't turn all that well. Also, depending on the plane you fly, stall fighting is another good option to use against the N1K2.
Ack-Ack
Stop! Stop! My ribs, my poor, poor ribs! That's almost as funny as your statement that the Typhoon isn't uber!
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Jeeeeeeeeeezuz whats with the Tiffie-bashing?
I can remember when there was only me, Manedog, and Wardog who flew the tiffie!
Hey, I've always been a Tiffy driver :)
Planes I 'dislike':-
1. La7 - Everything about it is very uber... just pleased that the guns aren't as accurate as others :) Fast as hell!
2. N1K2 - Seems to do very strange things. Can't explain what but nearly always you end up saying 'How on earth did they do that??'
3. A6Ms - Just hate these planes! Probably more my own fault since I try to dogfight them in my Tiffy :)
4. 190D9 - Very much an opportunist aircraft, quite often I see one get just one kill then runs home..... possibly to return once again.
That's my 2 pence worth.
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i hate that plane on my 6 shooting at me...goway plane ...goway...shoo
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
My whine-o-meter is pinging red! Flee, this thread is gonna blow!
-- Todd/Leviathn
no chit! i cant believe someone whined about the hurri being uber.
this HAS to be the whine all to end all
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Hum, lets see I hate those La-7s and mustangs cas most pilots who fly them are a bunch of running chickens. I also hate small airplanes in general because they are hard to hit because of their size in the cross hairs. Also I hate spits because they always seem to be able to take alot of damage. Seems like I have to put twice the amount of ammo I think I will need in them to kill them. They are so dam maneuvorable that my strategy is to disable them first (makes them less maneuvorable) like when Im in my A-8 then kill them when its safe. Shoot shoot their parts dont seem to fly off till you put more lead into them. Then off comes an aerolon yeah! Shoot shoot them maybe a tailplane, maybe some smoke. Then finaly elimnate them, always with the thought, dam those f***king things are HARD as rocks. Ok my favorite planes are the FW-190A8, P-39L, Zero. A8 is my favorite closely tied to the P-38 though I prefer the 38 if I strap tanks on for long range hunting when the map situation sucks. Plus its got lotsa lotsa ammo. With the A8 I just gas 100% all the time anyways cas it turns like crap. I'll dogfight anything in a zero. Oh yeah, corsairs also I like those too. I just dont like them too much in game because of the fuel load. I group the corsair with the 109. The jug can go long range and has lotsa ammo but its easy to be caught low and slow in it far from home cas its big and heavy, 38 not. A low fuel 38 is quite deadly an opponent. Admitingly Im most deadly when I fly the zero though.
:D
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Originally posted by Maniacal81st
<> Everyone,
I still have a hard time understanding why people are called "spit dweebs" "Run-190s" etc. I mean really, a plane does not make someone a better/worse pilot. I don't claim to be any great fighter ace, but I shoot down the Spit IX more than any other plane except the pony, and I am NOT one of the best pilots, so as far as I am concerned, BRING 'EM ON! There are excellent pilots for all planes. I have flown against incredible pilots that were in "not so dweeb planes." Every plane has a strength(s) and weakness(es). Far be it from me to call someone a "dweeb" because they shoot me down in their La-7, Tiffie, whatever... regardless of how good they are or aren't, they flew away and I didn't. Who's the dweeb now? If you find yourself being shot down more often by one of these "dweebs", then I suggest the finger is being pointed in the wrong direction. Every plane can be shot down. The key is matching the strenghts of the plane you are flying with the weaknesses of the plane your enemy is flying.
By the way, I am a DWEEB I guess. I absoluteley LOVE THE LA-7. Anyone who says 'It's EASY to get a kill in a La-7" is only trying to sound macho, IMHO. It is a very difficult plane to master (something I have not done) and an inexperienced pilot has/would have a difficult time scoring kills. I hate flying the Spit, I'm better off in a glider.
Suggestion: For 3 days- write down every death, how you died,what plane shot you down, and what was the mode of attack used. You will be surprised at the results, I think. You will find a common denominator among deaths. Sure helped me learn a lot about my flying style.
Good Luck to all!!! Check 6!
<> Major MaNiaCaL
~*81st*~ Krewsaderz
ROOKS!!!!!!!!!!
Getting shot down sucks.
yes its hard to master la-7 when it comes at aiming its cannons. BnZ is very easy with this plane but aiming is not compared to spit9
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Originally posted by gofaster
Stop! Stop! My ribs, my poor, poor ribs! That's almost as funny as your statement that the Typhoon isn't uber!
P-38L will out perform a N1K2 in the vertical, it retains its E far better. P-38L, because of it's far more gentle stall characteristics has the advantage in a stall fight, which by the way is another good tactic to use against Spitfires, especially the Spitfire Mk IX and XIV models. The P-38L also has better high speed handling than the N1K2 at in high speed turn fight, can easily get inside the turn of the N1K2.
These tactics work for me majority of the time, so that's why I don't consider the N1K2 or the Spitfire to be any sort of 'Uber' weapons. Smart tactics go a long way.
Ack-Ack
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Is this thread a form of group therapie ?
running away :)
Seriously I don't see what make the typhoon so uber ...
gun package perhaps ?
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I hate the Me 163 because I cant fly it, but the rest of the woprld can. but it is fulfilling to kill one with a 109.
I hate the 190, I cant kill them, its a hex for me.
I hate Zekes!!!!!! when in puting along at 25 @ 390 MPH at fulll throttle, a zeke appears outa no where and tries to cream me. I can usually out run it then climb and attack, but I hate them.
On a lighter note. I love 109s espesially the G10.:D :cool: its fast
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Us "zeke" drivers have to be sneaky to catch those late war hotrods...:D
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zombeees 190
roll in bounce his arse lit him up d230 in 190a8 with cannons only he looks like a vegas sign a blow past and continue on my way.
Look back expecting to see tumbling corpse instead I see 190 following at d4k. So I reverse he sets hisself up for a HO so I do same only I roll 90 onto my left wing and open up at d 2 again cannons only and barrel roll, 1 little machine gun ping, but my shots again light him up like a friggen christmas tree. Again wait for tumbling corpse or more likely boom! again nothing, then some bishtard in his la7 decides to dive in from 20k so I auger cause I wanna see who adamantium 190 is.
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P-38L will out perform a N1K2 in the vertical, it retains its E far better. P-38L, because of it's far more gentle stall characteristics has the advantage in a stall fight, which by the way is another good tactic to use against Spitfires, especially the Spitfire Mk IX and XIV models. The P-38L also has better high speed handling than the N1K2 at in high speed turn fight, can easily get inside the turn of the N1K2.
These tactics work for me majority of the time, so that's why I don't consider the N1K2 or the Spitfire to be any sort of 'Uber' weapons. Smart tactics go a long way.
With all due respect, Ak, the 'smartness' involved here is more 'situational' than 'tactical'.
I've fought you sometimes, and also have seen you fight sometimes. I can really say 9 times out of 10, you're in a position where you rarely need any complex 'tactics' at all - a position most certainly advantageous in speed and altitude by far. I can dare say you'll probably not stick around longer than 10 seconds where you see a N1K2 or a Spit9 higher than you.
I'm not being critical, or saying you're a cherry-picker or something, don't get me wrong. You will engage in a fight you can win, and I know that's the smart and logical thing to do.
However I seriously doubt that you've ever been into a situation that requires the 'tactics' explained above, in the receiving end.
Suckering and out-maneuvering a noob N1k pilot is not that very hard even in the G-10 I use, however, if you for once have to meet multiple N1K2s with those 'dedicated' N1K pilots of the MA approaching higher than you, and by some ill fate you decide to fight them.. I am pretty sure you're gonna be pretty annoyed in the moves they manage to do. Getting sniped off by quad-20mms at 700 yards, whenever you try to extend, is a frickin' annoying thing.
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I hate all them red ones.
Bumba
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akak i must respond to your posts.,...
your mention theat the 190 "takes no more skill...." and so on depresses me. it does so for the very simple reason of a fight you and i got into.
we were @ base 25 on lake uterus and you were a 1k higher pj. after i engaged you and fought (eventually augered with a spit and la7 IB) you gave me a private text for having the cahonies to engage a p38 alone in my 190.
why would you say such a thing unless you believed that a 190 had no chance of besting a pj without "expert" knowledge of the fighting abilities of the 190?
your statements to me at the time and in this post contridict each other. i think you are just going with the collective "brain" and not voicing your own opinions (IE spinless and weak)...
otherwise you have made a complete 180 in you thinking of the ability of certain aircraft in the last 3-4 months.
which is the case?
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Originally posted by superpug1
I hate the Me 163 because I cant fly it, but the rest of the woprld can. but it is fulfilling to kill one with a 109.
I hate the 190, I cant kill them, its a hex for me.
I hate Zekes!!!!!! when in puting along at 25 @ 390 MPH at fulll throttle, a zeke appears outa no where and tries to cream me. I can usually out run it then climb and attack, but I hate them.
On a lighter note. I love 109s espesially the G10.:D :cool: its fast
LOL you're dead in that 109 G-10 if i lure you to dive at 25K with my p-51D mustang:D You'll "compressed" that 109 G-10 at 500 mph while i dive with my mustang at 700 mph:D
*note that if you reach 500mph in 109 G-10, you get very little or no response to the elevators and ailerons
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
*note that if you reach 500mph in 109 G-10, you get very little or no response to the elevators and ailerons
One of the things that has always baffled me about the flight modeling of this game is the issue of compressibility.
If I'm in a Jug or P-38, I expect to see compressibililty when doing 500 mph at 25k. However, they're still compressing at 2k! Hold the phone, 500 mph at 2k is barely above Mach 0.6, well below the critical mach of any fighter in this game. In other words, the P-47 should not have any issues with compressibility below 10k.
Back in the late 1940s, Curtiss test pilot Herb Fisher performed over one hundred dive tests with a P-47D-30-RE from altitudes up to 30k (testing transonic props). Fisher routinely reached Mach 0.80 and 0.83 on occasion and he never had any trouble getting the big Jug out of the dive. In fact, Fisher stated that at 550 mph (at around 5,000 feet), the P-47 responded well to elevator input, requiring no assistance from trim to exit the dive. I have the test data for 12 of these test dives.
The compression behavior may be a programming concession, but it sure as heck isn't accurate. As a plane descends to warmer air, the speed of sound goes up. Therefore, the effects of compressibility diminish until the aircraft is well below critical Mach.
Adding to the problem are dive recovery flaps that do not perform as they are supposed to. These should induce a pitch-up condition, leading to a 3 G, hands-off pullout. Those on the P-38 and P-47D-30 merely add drag, with no pitch-up whatsover.
(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/FisherF-47D-30-RE.JPG)
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by JB73
why would you say such a thing unless you believed that a 190 had no chance of besting a pj without "expert" knowledge of the fighting abilities of the 190?
What I meant is that no matter what plane you fly, in order to be successful in that plane it takes skill, be it in a FW190 or a Spitfire. I don't buy into that hogwosh that it takes less skill to be successful in planes like the Spitfire, N1K2 or La-7 because it's just not true.
And by the way, we have the L model in AH, not the J.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Kweassa
With all due respect, Ak, the 'smartness' involved here is more 'situational' than 'tactical'.
I've fought you sometimes, and also have seen you fight sometimes. I can really say 9 times out of 10, you're in a position where you rarely need any complex 'tactics' at all - a position most certainly advantageous in speed and altitude by far. I can dare say you'll probably not stick around longer than 10 seconds where you see a N1K2 or a Spit9 higher than you.
That's just not true. If it's a 1v1 situation and my plane is still combat worthy, I won't run, it would be useless because they'd be able to catch me with their superior altitude advantage. I'll try me best to sucker them down low and do whatever I can to whittle away their altitude and energy advantage.
I'm not being critical, or saying you're a cherry-picker or something, don't get me wrong. You will engage in a fight you can win, and I know that's the smart and logical thing to do.
Of course I'm going to engage whenever possible with some type of advantage but there are times when that's not possible.
However I seriously doubt that you've ever been into a situation that requires the 'tactics' explained above, in the receiving end.
Again, you're wrong. Anyone that has fought against me flying a Spitfire or N1K2 will tell you that I regularly turn fight against these planes, sometime not successfully but more often then not, I am. Ask guys like Dadrabit or SaburoS or Popy. Those three guys I regularly turn fight against in their Spitfires and N1K2s
Suckering and out-maneuvering a noob N1k pilot is not that very hard even in the G-10 I use, however, if you for once have to meet multiple N1K2s with those 'dedicated' N1K pilots of the MA approaching higher than you, and by some ill fate you decide to fight them.. I am pretty sure you're gonna be pretty annoyed in the moves they manage to do. Getting sniped off by quad-20mms at 700 yards, whenever you try to extend, is a frickin' annoying thing.
Annoyed at what moves? If you're dumb enough to fly level while extending with only 700 yards seperation, then you shouldn't be surprised if you get hit.
But it still doesn't take away from the fact that the N1K2 isn't some super weapon and has many weaknesses that can be exploited, just like all the other planes in here.
Ack-Ack
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Just an example of superweapon: Bf 110G2. And it is not fast, It rolls awfully, it compresses early and is only an average turner at medium and lo speeds, but gun package and long range deflection shoots count a lot in AH. Apply the same for the N1K2 but adding its impressive flying characteristics and you have a megaweapon. With D9 or F8 with only 2x20mm 151/20, you need to get really close before firing (I die more from crashes against burning spits than by enemy fire) and then concentrate a very accurate burst to do any critical damage.
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didn't we already cover before how easy the d9 is to fly and get kills in?
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Hehehe
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A good pilot will do well in any ride eventualy. An inexperienced stick has more of chance of survival depending on thier plane and its performance.
The logic that the planes does not matter is simply BS. If the plane did not matter why is/was so much time spent to improve performance? Its silly at best. Yes..good sticks can max an inferior planes performance vrs a late war ride per say... but the average joe has a better chance against this "Ace" in his late war ride than he would in an earlier or same model.
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AKAK mentioned that a 38 can out turn a Spit 9 or Niki in the vertical. He's correct, I've done it, Animal does it, Bug,Tac,Fester,Rob53 etc have all done it. Its a matter of fuel load, speed, flap deployment and throttle use. A uber spit driver or Niki driver will prob hand you your bellybutton though.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
P-38L will out perform a N1K2 in the vertical, it retains its E far better. P-38L, because of it's far more gentle stall characteristics has the advantage in a stall fight, which by the way is another good tactic to use against Spitfires, especially the Spitfire Mk IX and XIV models. The P-38L also has better high speed handling than the N1K2 at in high speed turn fight, can easily get inside the turn of the N1K2.
These tactics work for me majority of the time, so that's why I don't consider the N1K2 or the Spitfire to be any sort of 'Uber' weapons. Smart tactics go a long way.
Ack-Ack
Now try it without using flaps, like a Spit and N1K2 can.
A P-38 can dance if you know when and how to use flaps. But that's true for most US planes. The Spit V, IX, N1K2, LA-7 are deadly and you don't even need to hit any keys.
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<
> Ack-Ack ... You are the only one making sense here.
My understanding of the term "Uber" mean super, above all.
If that is not the case, then please enlighten me as to the definition of uber.
Running with my definition, what is it about the Spits, the N1k, and the La-7 that are so "uber/super" ?
Has HTC purposley porked these planes to the point that they are flying so far out of their technical envelope that they are given the tag of "uber", and at the same they have tried very hard to make all other planes fly within their own technical envelope?
Please present bonifide technical test data that would prove the fact that these planes in question are "uber/arcade" in how they perform. With this proof, the test data must prove without a doubt that the planes in question are far, and I mean far, outperforming RL technical test data. Personal experiences and fights in the MA with these planes does not constitute proof.
Its time to put up or STFU about uber this and uber that.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Please present bonifide technical test data that would prove the fact that these planes in question are "uber/arcade" in how they perform. With this proof, the test data must prove without a doubt that the planes in question are far, and I mean far, outperforming RL technical test data. Personal experiences and fights in the MA with these planes does not constitute proof.
RL technical test data doesn't apply in the MA. Only MA physics apply in the MA.
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Originally posted by gofaster
RL technical test data doesn't apply in the MA. Only MA physics apply in the MA.
Thats what I expected ... always interpretation and conjecture ... never anything solid.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Now try it without using flaps, like a Spit and N1K2 can.
Gee...why don't I turn off an engine too and fly blind folded while I'm at it. Regardless if flaps are deployed or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that the P-38 is the better of the three 'Uber' planes in the vertical and in stall fights. In stall fights the reason why the P-38 has the slight edge is because of it's gentle stall characteristics and no torque. Fly any of those three 'Uber' planes in a turn fight at stall speeds and you'll fight the torque more than the enemy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the N1K2, Spitfire or the La-7 are crappy planes, I'm just saying they're not some 'Wonder Weapon' and refuse to buy into the 'mystique' of the Uber triplets.
If you want to run at the sight of a N1K2, Spitfire or La-7 because in your mind their virtually undefeatable, that's your choice. I myself would rather shoot them down.
A P-38 can dance if you...
...want to, we can leave your friends behind
Cause if your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well their no friends of mine...
Hehe sorry couldn't resist :)
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Thats what I expected ... always interpretation and conjecture ... never anything solid.
They also use the argument that these planes take no skill to fly and are super weapons that make the newbie as deadly as a vet. But then when you point out weaknesses of these planes and explain tactics that can exploit these weaknesses, the 'Uber' crowd then uses the arguments that it was against a newbie and not a vet in the 'Uber' plane, so therefore the tactics are invalid. But yet fail to recognize in their original arguement that they claim the Uber triplet planes take no skill to fly and makes anyone that flies them as deadly as a veteran.
It reminds me of a dog chasing its tail, the 'Uber' crowd just keeps going around in circles.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
they claim the Uber triplet planes take no skill to fly and makes anyone that flies them as deadly as a veteran.
Exactly. For a P-38 to be superior in the vertical and turn, you have to know how to use the flaps in coordinated turns with the rudder and throttle. In a N1k2, such coordination isn't necessary. You just point and click.
You're good in a P-38. And I bet you pop flaps and dive brakes and dial in rudder and throttle. How many newbies have the smarts to do that?
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Originally posted by gofaster
Exactly. For a P-38 to be superior in the vertical and turn, you have to know how to use the flaps in coordinated turns with the rudder and throttle. In a N1k2, such coordination isn't necessary. You just point and click.
You're good in a P-38. And I bet you pop flaps and dive brakes and dial in rudder and throttle. How many newbies have the smarts to do that?
I don't deploy dive brakes because the P-38L doesn't have any. P-38s have dive flaps and they aren't used to slow you down but give you positive lift in high speed dives to aid in recovery. So deploying them in an attempt to control your speed is a wasted efforts, the dive flaps aren't designed for that.
As for the other stuff, you kind of have to if you want to get all you can out of the P-38.
Ack-Ack
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As for the other stuff, you kind of have to if you want to get all you can out of the P-38.
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and that, is exactly the point.
I was never the one who claimed N1K2s or La-7s were uber. I'll bet neither did the most of the guys who participated in this thread with a light heart, thought it was uber. As a matter of fact, I don't see anyone claiming it was uber either. They just don't like it. I don't like it.
Some planes can't transform its potential E-adv into the immediate tactical advantage by just pulling the stick. Planes that 'turn good' can do that. Planes that 'turn bad' cannot. Since the first and immediate method of 'combat tactic' starts with the ability to turn, it is simply undeniable that some planes are easier to use, than others. Learning to 'go around' to utilize whatever E-adv a plane holds, is not easy.
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It is interesting that the common 'hated planes' form a 'threesome' with the La-7, N1K2 and Spitfire as a single group. Obviously, each one of them loses its 'claimed' uberness when they are alone. I have felt the helplessness of N1k2s in Combat Theater PAC setups, first-hand. It is obviously the mixed multi-engagement environment of the MA which makes those three planes form a 'group', with often frustrating results. La-7s stop other planes from escaping, and Spits and N1K2s usually finish it off.
To fight on equal terms, the other side who meets the combination of three planes, most often also come up with the exact same combination - thus, the stale environment full of "N1K2s, La-7s and Spits'.
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Annoyed at what moves? If you're dumb enough to fly level while extending with only 700 yards seperation, then you shouldn't be surprised if you get hit.
And this.. I suppose you've never met some of the N1K2 pilots who snipe jinking planes over 600 yards distance. The annoyance comes from the fact that some of those spray tards track the shots against a jinking planes.
700 yards is nearly 700 meters. The very fact that you are using the term 'only 700 tards separation', IMO, means something. I know, I know - 'realistic' or not, AH is built this way.
But that also gives a strong basis for complaints directed against the drastically differing performance of weapon types mounted on planes. Again the Spit and the N1K2 scores high points in the environment AH is set - some planes can't hit shi* even to a straight extending plane at 400 yards, and others can spray out and kill something at 700 yards.
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Frankly, the usage is the largest evidence that the three plane types people hate, are not as dinky as you think. People hoarde to those planes because they are good planes, suited to MA use. They maybe not uber, but they are planes that can cover a pretty large skill gap. That is why people hate them. It is understandable.
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The N1K2 really should use its flaps to get the most out of its performance potential.
J_A_B
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Kweassa,
Granted there are a number of post in this thread that say that they don't like the numbers of these planes, but there is also a fair amount of "uber" whining at the same time ...
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gofaster :
The N1k2 turns a good quality flight sim into a video arcade
But the flight model of the N1k2 defies the basic laws of physics and cheapens the game terribly.
humble :
the 25k "rice rocket" zero who seems to never compress as he zooms down to you at 5k
the hurricane "loopamatic" who can do 400 ft loops...those 20mm are always pointing at you
JB73 :
N1k2's do things that aren't physcially possible
Ike 2K#
If I only have limited flying time (like 30mins or 1 hour), i fly in "ARCADE" mode by flying spits, n1k2-Js, and la-7s
udet:
I think the La7 is the only plane in AH that defies the laws of physics. I saw it do things a plane shouldn't do :P
Replicant:
La7 - Everything about it is very uber... just pleased that the guns aren't as accurate as others
N1K2 - Seems to do very strange things. Can't explain what but nearly always you end up saying 'How on earth did they do that??'
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Bottom line here is that those who can't and haven't figured out how to beat these planes are the ones that whine the loudest and longest. Numbers ... who cares ... All I seem to see are indefinate lines of 109s and 190s coming into the bases that I defend, but does that drive me to start pissin' and moaning to HTC to see if they can do something about it.
Nope ... ya just deal with it and learn how to bait them into flying out of their strenghts and into yours. If they don't, then it becomes a stalemate or they get you to fly out of your strengths and you die. Its the "push" and "pull" of this baiting and the execution to the "end game" thats the challenge, and that is what makes the game for me.
If HTC were to perk these "uber" planes and limit the numbers, then what planes would then balance the number of 109s, 190s, P51s, etc.
Its a "ying" and "yang" thing here in the MA. Eliminate one so-called problem, and the balance will be upset and then something new will evolve and then that will be the "uber" whine topic of never ending discussion.
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"But the flight model of the N1k2 defies the basic laws of physics"
If you read history, you will find that the American pilots who faced it in the real deal often said the same thing--they claimed the N1K2's made "impossible" maneuvers and such.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"But the flight model of the N1k2 defies the basic laws of physics"
If you read history, you will find that the American pilots who faced it in the real deal often said the same thing--they claimed the N1K2's made "impossible" maneuvers and such.
J_A_B
Yes ... but did the US whine to the Japanese emperor and ask him to limit the production of the N1k2, or did the US adapt their ACM or develop a plane that could beat the N1k2 ?
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I don't hate any AC ... well maybe the Spit, but that's just because I suck at fighting them. There are AC combo's I hate however, La7/Hurricane 2-ship's are hard to fight.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I don't deploy dive brakes because the P-38L doesn't have any. P-38s have dive flaps and they aren't used to slow you down but give you positive lift in high speed dives to aid in recovery. So deploying them in an attempt to control your speed is a wasted efforts, the dive flaps aren't designed for that.
As for the other stuff, you kind of have to if you want to get all you can out of the P-38.
Ack-Ack
Actually, the NACA designed dive recovery flaps did two things.
First, they did generate drag, specifically to reduce dive acceleration.
Second, they shifted the center of lift forward along the chord, eliminating "tuck under" and inducing a pitch-up condition.
AH dive recovery flaps are of almost no value, either on the P-38 or the P-47D-30.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Kweassa
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700 yards is nearly 700 meters. The very fact that you are using the term 'only 700 tards separation', IMO, means something. I know, I know - 'realistic' or not, AH is built this way.
Think it's nearer to 600 metres than 700 metres ;)
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Experience flying against them means you have killed a lot of them and/or you have died to them a lot of times also. Your % of success does not count when you have had so few encounters with 190s.
BTW, I have had also few A-A encounters against P38s, based on them I would say any P38 in MA will came from 25k, dive, spray and flee again to 25k far far away. Does that mean this is the way to use this plane, does that means that all P38 drivers use it that way? Your misconception about MA 190s is absolute. But, if you really think that killing in a 190 is just as easy as killing with a Spit, then your misconception about any plane in MA is total.
Better than talking so much, pick up a 190 for a tour and then came here with results.
Well I wanna sling some mud around too :D
Been flyin with and around akak for 6 or 7 years now?
Same squad for better than 3 years and he can fly any dam thing in here.
He is also right in saying that tactics and pilot make the plane.
I say he could prolly whump you in a duel same plane and fighting instead of using *tactics*. :p :D :D
On the FW in here. I have only seen a handful of folks willing to turn fight them. They aint half bad if you are in a downwards fight. They split arse like no other. They roll like the tide.
I dont fly them much, when I have I can usally get 2 or 3 kills before they get me. there easy to kill in and much more survivable than a spit
If you want to survive.
I usally just fight to the dirt. :)
another thing. bringing home 13 kills in a niki is harder than bring 13 in a fw.
*Speed is the cushion of sloppiness*
Anyone can use SA and survive in a fast plane. Fly a slow plane and see what you are made of. That goes for any "ace"
Fly something slow. then you done something a little more remarkable with 13 kills.
btw akak I can hit at over 800 with those 50s in the 38
I save cannons for closeups ;->
on spits niks and other planes.
every plane has a weakness, its our job to exploit it.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Do you really find any difference between N1K2 and Spit? In the worst case, N1K2 is outclimbed and outdived by the Spit and both have the same hover capability.
38 will hang longer than a spit or a nik.
I rope them lots.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Well I wanna sling some mud around too :D
Been flyin with and around akak for 6 or 7 years now?
Same squad for better than 3 years and he can fly any dam thing in here.
Red Dawn baby!! I miss GMist and Ervin and our AIRBOSS operations ::sniff::
btw akak I can hit at over 800 with those 50s in the 38
I save cannons for closeups ;->
Bah! I need new contacts :p
Ack-Ack
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What are all you dorks talking about? It's never the plane I hate, is the dweeb flying it that I hate...
Certain names come to mind. How about a topic "What dwees do you absolutely hate?" Besides it's the man, not the machine you got to worry about. :D
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Originally posted by J_A_B
The N1K2 really should use its flaps to get the most out of its performance potential.
J_A_B
If you mean the automatic "butterfly"(?) flaps I have seen HTC say they are modelled in the performance, just not in the graphics.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Bah! I need new contacts :p
Then how the heck did you manage to hit my engine from 600yds the other night, with no tracers??? :eek:
P38s are uber UFOs! Perk em! ;)
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To the others posting in this thread:
It is always the pilot, not the plane, that makes the crucial difference.
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are you telling me that i can beat a newb piloting a spit 14 with my D3A VALs and Stukas:D
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Originally posted by Karnak
Take your sactimonious attitude and stuff it.
A kill has been recorded!
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I like the P-40E. Why? Its like the Yak from AW. If someone shoots you down in it, they haven't accomplished much. On the other hand, if you're that Niki driver I blew up Friday night with my P-40, you probably still haven't lived it down :D
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Bue Mako--
The N1K2's flaps are not automatic in AH. You can verify this simply by selecting the plane offline and seeing for yourself. Since the N1K2 did not have 2 separate sets of flaps, one must conclude that the N1K2 we have in AH has strictly manually-controlled flaps.
HT said exactly what you say he said, but IIRC it was referring to the wing slats on the Me-109's.
Speaking of things which are modeled but not graphically represented, do any of the naval planes have visible tailhooks?
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
Then how the heck did you manage to hit my engine from 600yds the other night, with no tracers??? :eek:
P38s are uber UFOs! Perk em! ;)
New contacts :D
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
are you telling me that i can beat a newb piloting a spit 14 with my D3A VALs and Stukas:D
Was in H2h the other night for some quality baby-sea clubbing, took some n00b in a spit14 to school with a Ju-88.
l
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
are you telling me that i can beat a newb piloting a spit 14 with my D3A VALs and Stukas:D
You can beat a veteran pilot in a Val or Stuka if you're good enough. There's nothing as funny as watching a couple of FW 190s run from a Ju-87D-3.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Bue Mako--
The N1K2's flaps are not automatic in AH. You can verify this simply by selecting the plane offline and seeing for yourself. Since the N1K2 did not have 2 separate sets of flaps, one must conclude that the N1K2 we have in AH has strictly manually-controlled flaps.
HT said exactly what you say he said, but IIRC it was referring to the wing slats on the Me-109's.
Speaking of things which are modeled but not graphically represented, do any of the naval planes have visible tailhooks?
J_A_B
My bad, I thought they said they had modelled the automatic combat flaps...
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
are you telling me that i can beat a newb piloting a spit 14 with my D3A VALs and Stukas:D
Yup.