Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: --am-- on April 01, 2003, 01:10:21 AM
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March 31, 2003, 1828hrs MSK (GMT +4 DST), Moscow - During the night of March 30-31 the situation on the US-Iraqi front became increasingly more critical. All indications are that the coalition has launched a new attack.
Following a three-hour-long artillery barrage and several nighttime aviation strikes the coalition forces came in contact with the Iraqi troops near Karabela and attempted to move around the Iraqi defenses from the east.
For now the coalition is limiting its actions to probing the forward layer of the Iraqi defenses, attempting to assess its density and organization after nearly five days of artillery and aerial bombardment. There have been no reports of any coalition breaks through the Iraqi defenses in this area. At the same time morning radio intercepts uncovered a large US military convoy moving around the Razzaza Lake. At the moment it is unclear whether the purpose of this movement is to get to the town of Ar-Ramdia or a wider maneuver leading to the town of Al-Falludja.
Another [coalition] convoy numbering up to 100 combat vehicles was seen near the town of Al-Hillah moving in the southeaster direction 30 kilometers from the strategic Baghdad-Basra highway. Given there is no Iraqi resistance this coalition force will be able to reach the highway by today’s night. So far there were no reports of any losses in this area.
The US forces resumed attacking Iraqi defenses near An-Najaf. The US group of force in this area has been reinforced with at least three reserve Marine battalions and now Americans are trying once again to capture this key town. According to the US intelligence Iraqi defenses in this area number up to 3,000 troops aided by around 1,500 volunteers and [Ba’ath] party activists. The Iraqis here are armed with around 30 T-55 and T-62 tanks, up to four artillery batteries and more than 300 various anti-tank weapons. The town is being stormed by the elements of the 1st Marine Division numbering up to 6,000 troops assisted by 80 tanks and 60 artillery systems. Additionally, aerial support is provided by up to 40 helicopters. So far the Americans were unable to push the enemy. Early today morning an American tank was destroyed near An-Najaf. At least two of its crew were killed.
Intensive exchange of fire is continuing in the vicinity of An-Nasiriya. The US Marines have so far been unable to side nth staging area they captured seven days ago on the left bank of Euphrates. The bridge connecting this staging area with the main coalition forces is nearly destroyed and is under constant fire from the Iraqi defenses located in the riverside city blocks. This is the reason why the [coalition] troops holding the staging area can only be reinforced by small and lightly-armed units and only during nighttime. During the past night alone the Marines holding the staging area sustained 2 killed and 5 wounded.
The situation [for the coalition] is complicated by the fact that the residential blocks occupied by the defending Iraqis come to the very edge of the river, giving a significant advantage to the defenders who control the river and all approaches to the river. Currently the coalition artillery and aviation is methodically destroying these blocks in an attempt to push the Iraqis away from the shoreline.
Intercepted radio communications indicate that the Marines engineering units are ordered to build a pontoon crossing up the stream from An-Nasiriya and move up to three battalions of Marines and troops from the 82nd Airborne Division to the left bank of the Euphrates for a future strike in the rear of the An-Nasiriya garrison. The coalition command would have been ready to bypass other defended crossings on the Euphrates if it wasn’t for one problem: the entire group of forces has only two pontoon units. Any new pontoon units will arrive not sooner than in mid-April.
A standoff between the Basra garrison and the British marine infantry is continuing in the area of Basra. Using localized attacks the British are attempting to “lean”on Basra as closely as possible and to tighten the blockade, but so far they were unsuccessful. Thus, during the last night the British attempted to take the town of Al-Hasib located 7 kilometers southeast of Basra. The British plan was to reach the Al-Arab River and to slice the local Iraqi defenses in half, separating Basra from the defending Iraqi forces on the Fao peninsula. Up to a battalion of the British marine infantry supported by armored vehicles entered the town of Al-Hasib from south but in less than an hour they were stopped by Iraqi fire and requested aviation and artillery support.
Fighting for the control of the town is continuing. At least two British soldiers were killed and three were wounded in this battle. One British armored personnel carrier was destroyed. British commanders are reporting killing 50 Iraqis and capturing 10. In the area of the As-Zubair River port, which was declared to be under full coalition control just a week ago, a British patrol boat was attacked. The boat was carrying its crew and a marine infantry unit. As the result of the attack at least 4 British soldiers were killed and 9 were wounded.
The official coalition losses are, to put it mildly, “falling behind”the actual figures. The 57 dead acknowledged by the coalition command reflect losses as of the morning of March 26. This information was provided to a BBC correspondent by one of the top medical officials at a field hospital in Al Kuwait during a confidential conversation. “We have standing orders to acknowledge only those fatalities that have been delivered to the hospital, identified and prepared to be sent back home. The identification process and the required standard embalming takes some time –occasionally up to several days. But only the command knows how many casualties we sustained today and you will learn about it in about three days…”[Reverse-translated from Russian] This conversation was taped by the journalist and sent to the editor via a cellular phone network.
Based on the radio intercepts and internal information networks of the US field hospitals as of this morning the coalition losses include no less than 100 killed US servicemen and at least 35 dead British soldiers. Additionally, some 22 American and 11 British soldiers are officially considered to be missing in action and the whereabouts of another 400 servicemen are being established. The number of wounded has exceeded 480 people.
US experts at the coalition command headquarters studied the cases of destroyed and damaged M1A2 tanks and various APCs. The conclusion was that without a doubt the Iraqis do possess modern anti-tank weapons but so far use them on a “very limited scale.”Only three tanks have been hit by guided weapons which destroyed these tanks with the first hit. The rest of the tanks were destroyed with more standard weapons. Some of the most common causes [of destroyed armor] include: anti-tank guns (about 40% of all hits), man-portable rocket-propelled grenade launchers (25% of hits), and landmines (25% of hits). Effectiveness of anti-tank artillery has been particularly high. “Impacts by high-velocity projectiles do not always destroy the tank and its crew. However, in 90% of all cases the tank is disabled and the crew is forced to abandon the tank on the battlefield…”–says the report that was distributed to the commanders of the forward units for analysis.
Russian military analysts are advising the Iraqi military command against excessive optimism. There is no question that the US “blitzkrieg”failed to take control of Iraq and to destroy its army. It is clear that the Americans got bogged down in Iraq and the military campaign hit a snag. However, the Iraqi command is now in danger of underestimating the enemy. For now there is no reason to question the resolve of the Americans and their determination to reach the set goal –complete occupation of Iraq.
In reality, despite of some obvious miscalculations and errors of the coalition’s high command, the [coalition] troops that have entered Iraq maintain high combat readiness and are willing to fight. The losses sustained during the past 12 days of fighting, although delivering a painful blow to the pride and striking the public opinion, are entirely insignificant militarily speaking. The initiative in the war remains firmly in the hands of the coalition. Under such circumstances Iraqi announcements of a swift victory over the enemy will only confuse its own troops and the Iraq’s population and, as the result, may lead to demoralization and a reduced defensive potential…
Russian military analysts believe that the critical for the US duration of the war would be over 90 days provided that during that time the coalition will sustain over 1,000 killed. Under such circumstances a serious political crisis in the US and in the world will be unavoidable.
(source: iraqwar.ru, 03-31-03, translated by Venik)
(http://lj.hotbox.ru/31.3.3/SPiraq30.l.jpg)
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Spare us.
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What garbage? I found it very informative and objective.
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I'm very skeptical of the information. There's too many allusions to BBC reports as a back-bone, which are then used to spin the whole thing in a negative light.
Why do I think this? Radio intercepts can be notoriously ambiguous. I really doubt they could take 24 hours of communications, decode them, translate them, pull it all together in one succinct, easily read report less than 24 hours after the events took place. It's just no possible.
We'll see the veracity of these reports after the war. Personally I think they are a conglomerate of various sources, including Western media and Iraqi and Coalition press conferences with embellishments, cobbled together to give it a hint of truthfulness.
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US Marines Turn Fire on Civilians at the Bridge of Death
Mark Franchetti – The Sunday Times 30 March 2003
THE light was a strange yellowy grey and the wind was coming up, the beginnings of a sandstorm. The silence felt almost eerie after a night of shooting so intense it hurt the eardrums and shattered the nerves. My footsteps felt heavy on the hot, dusty asphalt as I walked slowly towards the bridge at Nasiriya. A horrific scene lay ahead.
Some 15 vehicles, including a minivan and a couple of trucks, blocked the road. They were riddled with bullet holes. Some had caught fire and turned into piles of black twisted metal. Others were still burning.
Amid the wreckage I counted 12 dead civilians, lying in the road or in nearby ditches. All had been trying to leave this southern town overnight, probably for fear of being killed by US helicopter attacks and heavy artillery.
Their mistake had been to flee over a bridge that is crucial to the coalition’s supply lines and to run into a group of shell-shocked young American marines with orders to shoot anything that moved.
One man’s body was still in flames. It gave out a hissing sound. Tucked away in his breast pocket, thick wads of banknotes were turning to ashes. His savings, perhaps.
Down the road, a little girl, no older than five and dressed in a pretty orange and gold dress, lay dead in a ditch next to the body of a man who may have been her father. Half his head was missing.
Nearby, in a battered old Volga, peppered with ammunition holes, an Iraqi woman — perhaps the girl’s mother — was dead, slumped in the back seat. A US Abrams tank nicknamed Ghetto Fabulous drove past the bodies.
This was not the only family who had taken what they thought was a last chance for safety. A father, baby girl and boy lay in a shallow grave. On the bridge itself a dead Iraqi civilian lay next to the carcass of a donkey.
As I walked away, Lieutenant Matt Martin, whose third child, Isabella, was born while he was on board ship en route to the Gulf, appeared beside me.
“Did you see all that?” he asked, his eyes filled with tears. “Did you see that little baby girl? I carried her body and buried it as best I could but I had no time. It really gets to me to see children being killed like this, but we had no choice.”
Martin’s distress was in contrast to the bitter satisfaction of some of his fellow marines as they surveyed the scene. “The Iraqis are sick people and we are the chemotherapy,” said Corporal Ryan Dupre. “I am starting to hate this country. Wait till I get hold of a friggin’ Iraqi. No, I won’t get hold of one. I’ll just kill him.”
Only a few days earlier these had still been the bright-eyed small-town boys with whom I crossed the border at the start of the operation. They had rolled towards Nasiriya, a strategic city beside the Euphrates, on a mission to secure a safe supply route for troops on the way to Baghdad.
They had expected a welcome, or at least a swift surrender. Instead they had found themselves lured into a bloody battle, culminating in the worst coalition losses of the war — 16 dead, 12 wounded and two missing marines as well as five dead and 12 missing servicemen from an army convoy — and the humiliation of having prisoners paraded on Iraqi television.
There are three key bridges at Nasiriya. The feat of Martin, Dupre and their fellow marines in securing them under heavy fire was compared by armchair strategists last week to the seizure of the Remagen bridge over the Rhine, which significantly advanced victory over Germany in the second world war.
But it was also the turning point when the jovial band of brothers from America lost all their assumptions about the war and became jittery aggressors who talked of wanting to “nuke” the place.
None of this was foreseen at Camp Shoup, one of the marines’ tent encampments in northern Kuwait, where officers from the 1st and 2nd battalions of Task Force Tarawa, the 7,000-strong US Marines brigade, spent long evenings poring over maps and satellite imagery before the invasion.
The plan seemed straightforward. The marines would speed unhindered over the
130 miles of desert up from the Kuwaiti border and approach Nasiriya from the southeast to secure a bridge over the Euphrates. They would then drive north through the outskirts of Nasiriya to a second bridge, over the Inahr al-Furbati canal. Finally, they would turn west and secure the third bridge, also over the canal. The marines would not enter the city proper, let alone attempt to take it.
The coalition could then start moving thousands of troops and logistical support units up highway 7, leading to Baghdad, 225 miles to the north.
There was only one concern: “ambush alley”, the road connecting the first two bridges. But intelligence suggested there would be little or no fighting as this eastern side of the city was mostly “pro-American”.
I was with Alpha company. We reached the outskirts of Nasiriya at about breakfast time last Sunday. Some marines were disappointed to be carrying out a mission that seemed a sideshow to the main effort. But in an ominous sign of things to come, our battalion stopped in its tracks, three miles outside the city.
Bad news filtered back. Earlier that morning a US Army convoy had been greeted by a group of Iraqis dressed in civilian clothes, apparently wanting to surrender. When the American soldiers stopped, the Iraqis pulled out AK-47s and sprayed the US trucks with gunfire.
Five wounded soldiers were rescued by our convoy, including one who had been shot four times. The attackers were believed to be members of the Fedayeen Saddam, a group of 15,000 fighters under the command of Saddam’s psychopathic son Uday.
Blown-up tyres, a pool of blood, spent ammunition and shards of glass from the bullet ridden windscreen marked the spot where the ambush had taken place. Swiftly, our AAVs (23-ton amphibious assault vehicles) took up defensive positions. About 100 marines jumped out of their vehicles and took cover in ditches, pointing their sights at a mud-caked house. Was it harbouring gunmen? Small groups of marines approached, cautiously, to search for the enemy. A dozen terrified civilians, mainly women and children, emerged with their hands raised.
“It’s just a bunch of Hajis,” said one gunner from his turret, using their nickname for Arabs. “Friggin’ women and children, that’s all.”
Cobras and Huey attack helicopters began firing missiles at targets on the edge of the city. Plumes of smoke rose as heavy artillery shook the ground under our feet.
Heavy machinegun fire echoed across the huge rubbish dump that marks the entrance to Nasiriya. Suddenly there was return fire from three large oil tanks at a refinery. The Cobras were called back, and within seconds they roared above our heads, firing off missiles in clouds of purple tracer fire.
There were several loud explosions. Flames burst high into the sky from one of the oil tanks. The marines believed that what opposition there was had now been crushed. “We are going in, we are going in,” shouted one of the officers.
More than 20 AAVs, several tanks and about 10 Hummers equipped with roof-mounted, anti-tank missile launchers prepared to move in. Crammed inside them were some 400 marines. Tension rose as they loaded their guns and stuck their heads over the side of the AAVs through the open roof, their M-16 pointed in all directions.
As we set off towards the eastern city gate there was no sense of the mayhem awaiting us down the road. A few locals dressed in rags watched the awesome spectacle of America’s war machine on the move. Nobody waved.
Slowly we approached the first bridge. Fires were raging on either side of the road; Cobras had destroyed an Iraqi military truck and a T55 tank positioned inside a dugout. Powerful explosions came from inside the bowels of the tank as its ammunition and heavy shells were set off by the fire. With each explosion a thick and perfect ring of black smoke ring puffed out of the turret.
An Iraqi defence post lay abandoned. Cobras flew over an oasis of palm trees and deserted brick and mud-caked houses. We charged onto the bridge, and as we crossed the Euphrates, a large mural of Saddam came into view. Some marines reached for their disposable cameras.
Suddenly, as we approached ambush alley on the far side of the bridge, the crackle of AK-47s broke out. Our AAVs began to zigzag to avoid being hit by a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG).
The road widened out to a square, with a mosque and the portrait of Saddam on the left-hand side. The vehicles wheeled round, took up a defensive position, back to back, and began taking fire.
Pinned down, the marines fired back with 40mm automatic grenade launchers, a weapon so powerful it can go through thick brick walls and kill anyone within a 5-yard range of where the shell lands.
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I was in AAV number A304, affectionately nicknamed the Desert Caddy. It shook as Keith Bernize, the gunner, fired off round after deafening round at sandbag positions shielding suspected Fedayeen fighters. His steel ammunition box clanged with the sound of smoking empty shells and cartridges.
Bernize, who always carries a scan picture of his unborn baby daughter with him, shot at the targets from behind a turret, peering through narrow slits of reinforced glass. He shouted at his men to feed him more ammunition. Four marines, standing at the AAV’s four corners, precariously perched on ammunition boxes, fired off their M-16s.
Their faces covered in sweat, officers shouted commands into field radios, giving co-ordinates of enemy positions. Some 200 marines, fully exposed to enemy fire and slowed down by their heavy weapons, bulky ammunition packs and NBC suits, ran across the road, taking shelter behind a long brick wall and mounds of earth. A team of snipers appeared, yards from our vehicle.
The exchange of fire was relentless. We were pinned down for more than three hours as Iraqis hiding inside houses and a hospital and behind street corners fired a barrage of ammunition.
Despite the marines’ overwhelming firepower, hitting the Iraqis was not easy. The gunmen were not wearing uniforms and had planned their ambush well — stockpiling weapons in dozens of houses, between which they moved freely pretending to be civilians.
“It’s a bad situation,” said First Sergeant James Thompson, who was running around with a 9mm pistol in his hand. “We don’t know who is shooting at us. They are even using women as scouts. The women come out waving at us, or with their hands raised. We freeze, but the next minute we can see how she is looking at our positions and giving them away to the fighters hiding behind a street corner. It’s very difficult to distinguish between the fighters and civilians.”
Across the square, genuine civilians were running for their lives. Many, including some children, were gunned down in the crossfire. In a surreal scene, a father and mother stood out on a balcony with their children in their arms to give them a better view of the battle raging below. A few minutes later several US mortar shells landed in front of their house. In all probability, the family is dead.
The fighting intensified. An Iraqi fighter emerged from behind a wall of sandbags 500 yards away from our vehicle. Several times he managed to fire off an RPG at our positions. Bernize and other gunners fired dozens of rounds at his dugout, punching large holes into a house and lifting thick clouds of dust.
Captain Mike Brooks, commander of Alpha company, pinned down in front of the mosque, called in tank support. Armed with only a 9mm pistol, he jumped out of the back of his AAV with a young marine carrying a field radio on his back.
Brooks, 34, from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, had been in command of 200 men for just over a year. He joined the marines when he was 19 because he felt that he was wasting his life. He needed direction, was a bit of a rebel and was impressed by the sense of pride in the corps.
He is a soft-spoken man, fair but very firm. Brave too: I watched him sprint in front of enemy positions to brief some of his junior officers behind a wall. Behind us, two 68-ton Abrams tanks rolled up, crushing the barrier separating the lanes on the highway.
The earth shook violently as one tank, Desert Knight, stopped in front of our row of AAVS and fired several 120mm shells into buildings.
A few hundred yards down ambush alley there was carnage. An AAV from Charlie company was racing back towards the bridge to evacuate some wounded marines when it was hit by two RPGs. The heavy vehicle shook but withstood the explosions.
Then the Iraqis fired again. This time the rocket plunged into the vehicle through the open rooftop. The explosion was deadly, made 10 times more powerful by the ammunition stored in the back.
The wreckage smouldered in the middle of the road. I jumped out from the rear hatch of our vehicle, briefly taking cover behind a wall. When I reached the stricken AAV, the scene was mayhem.
The heavy, thick rear ramp had been blown open. There were pools of blood and bits of flesh everywhere. A severed leg, still wearing a desert boot, lay on what was left of the ramp among playing cards, a magazine, cans of Coke and a small bloodstained teddy bear.
“They are f****** dead, they are dead. Oh my God. Get in there. Get in there now and pull them out,” shouted a gunner in a state verging on hysterical.
There was panic and confusion as a group of young marines, shouting and cursing orders at one another, pulled out a maimed body.
Two men struggled to lift the body on a stretcher and into the back of a Hummer, but it would not fit inside, so the stretcher remained almost upright, the dead man’s leg, partly blown away, dangling in the air.
“We shouldn’t be here,” said Lieutenant Campbell Kane, 25, who was born in Northern Ireland. “We can’t hold this. They are trying to suck us into the city and we haven’t got enough bellybutton up here to sustain this. We need more tanks, more helicopters.”
Closer to the destroyed AAV, another young marine was transfixed with fear and kept repeating: “Oh my God, I can’t believe this. Did you see his leg? It was blown off. It was blown off.”
Two CH-46 helicopters, nicknamed Frogs, landed a few hundred yards away in the middle of a firefight to take away the dead and wounded.
If at first the marines felt constrained by orders to protect civilians, by now the battle had become so intense that there was little time for niceties. Cobra helicopters were ordered to fire at a row of houses closest to our positions. There were massive explosions but the return fire barely died down.
Behind us, as many as four AAVs that had driven down along the banks of the Euphrates were stuck in deep mud and coming under fire.
About 1pm, after three hours of intense fighting, the order was given to regroup and try to head out of the city in convoy. Several marines who had lost their vehicles piled into the back of ours.
We raced along ambush alley at full speed, close to a line of houses. “My driver got hit,” said one of the marines who joined us, his face and uniform caked in mud. “I went to try to help him when he got hit by another RPG or a mortar. I don’t even know how many friends I have lost. I don’t care if they nuke that bloody city now. From one house they were waving while shooting at us with AKs from the next. It was insane.”
There was relief when we finally crossed the second bridge to the northeast of the city in mid-afternoon. But there was more horror to come. Beside the smouldering wreckage of another AAV were the bodies of another four marines, laid out in the mud and covered with camouflage ponchos. There were body parts everywhere.
One of the dead was Second Lieutenant Fred Pokorney, 31, a marine artillery officer from Washington state. He was a big guy, whose ill-fitting uniform was the butt of many jokes. It was supposed to have been a special day for Pokorney. After 13 years of service, he was to be promoted to first lieutenant. The men of Charlie company had agreed they would all shake hands with him to celebrate as soon as they crossed the second bridge, their mission accomplished.
It didn’t happen. Pokorney made it over the second bridge and a few hundred yards down a highway through dusty flatlands before his vehicle was ambushed. Pokorney and his men had no chance. Fully loaded with ammunition, their truck exploded in the middle of the road, its remains burning for hours. Pokorney was hit in the chest by an RPG.
Another man who died was Fitzgerald Jordan, a staff sergeant from Texas. I felt numb when I heard this. I had met Jordan 10 days before we moved into Nasiriya. He was a character, always chewing tobacco and coming up to pat you on the back. He got me to fetch newspapers for him from Kuwait City. Later, we shared a bumpy ride across the desert in the back of a Humvee.
A decorated Gulf war veteran, he used to complain about having to come back to Iraq. “We should have gone all the way to Baghdad 12 years ago when we were here and had a real chance of removing Saddam.”
Now Pokorney, Jordan and their comrades lay among unspeakable carnage. An older marine walked by carrying a huge chunk of flesh, so maimed it was impossible to tell which body part it was. With tears in his eyes and blood splattered over his flak jacket, he held the remains of his friend in his arms until someone gave him a poncho to wrap them with.
Frantic medics did what they could to relieve horrific injuries, until four helicopters landed in the middle of the highway to take the injured to a military hospital. Each wounded marine had a tag describing his injury. One had gunshot wounds to the face, another to the chest. Another simply lay on his side in the sand with a tag reading: “Urgent — surgery, buttock.”
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One young marine was assigned the job of keeping the flies at bay. Some of his comrades, exhausted, covered in blood, dirt and sweat walked around dazed. There were loud cheers as the sound of the heaviest artillery yet to pound Nasiriya shook the ground.
Before last week the overwhelming majority of these young men had never been in combat. Few had even seen a dead body. Now, their faces had changed. Anger and fear were fuelled by rumours that the bodies of American soldiers had been dragged through Nasiriya’s streets. Some marines cried in the arms of friends, others sought comfort in the Bible.
Next morning, the men of Alpha company talked about the fighting over MREs (meals ready to eat). They were jittery now and reacted nervously to any movement around their dugouts. They suspected that civilian cars, including taxis, had helped resupply the enemy inside the city. When cars were spotted speeding along two roads, frantic calls were made over the radio to get permission to “kill the vehicles”. Twenty-four hours earlier it would almost certainly have been denied: now it was granted.
Immediately, the level of force levelled at civilian vehicles was overwhelming. Tanks were placed on the road and AAVs lined along one side. Several taxis were destroyed by helicopter gunships as they drove down the road.
A lorry filled with sacks of wheat made the fatal mistake of driving through US lines. The order was given to fire. Several AAVs pounded it with a barrage of machinegun fire, riddling the windscreen with at least 20 holes. The driver was killed instantly. The lorry swerved off the road and into a ditch. Rumour spread that the driver had been armed and had fired at the marines. I walked up to the lorry, but could find no trace of a weapon.
This was the start of day that claimed many civilian casualties. After the lorry a truck came down the road. Again the marines fired. Inside, four men were killed. They had been travelling with some 10 other civilians, mainly women and children who were evacuated, crying, their clothes splattered in blood. Hours later a dog belonging to the dead driver was still by his side.
The marines moved west to take a military barracks and secure their third objective, the third bridge, which carried a road out of the city.
At the barracks, the marines hung a US flag from a statue of Saddam, but Lieutenant-Colonel Rick Grabowski, the battalion commander, ordered it down. He toured barracks. There were stacks of Russian-made ammunition and hundreds of Iraqi army uniforms, some new, others left behind by fleeing Iraqi soldiers.
One room had a map of Nasiriya, showing its defences and two large cardboard arrows indicating the US plan of attack to take the two main bridges. Above the map were several murals praising Saddam. One, which sickened the Americans, showed two large civilian planes crashing into tall buildings.
As night fell again there was great tension, the marines fearing an ambush. Two tanks and three AAVs were placed at the north end of the third bridge, their guns pointing down towards Nasiriya, and given orders to shoot at any vehicle that drove towards American positions.
Though civilians on foot passed by safely, the policy was to shoot anything that moved on wheels. Inevitably, terrified civilians drove at speed to escape: marines took that speed to be a threat and hit out. During the night, our teeth on edge, we listened a dozen times as the AVVs’ machineguns opened fire, cutting through cars and trucks like paper.
Next morning I saw the result of this order — the dead civilians, the little girl in the orange and gold dress.
Suddenly, some of the young men who had crossed into Iraq with me reminded me now of their fathers’ generation, the trigger-happy grunts of Vietnam. Covered in the mud from the violent storms, they were drained and dangerously aggressive.
In the days afterwards, the marines consolidated their position and put a barrier of trucks across the bridge to stop anyone from driving across, so there were no more civilian deaths.
They also ruminated on what they had done. Some rationalised it.
“I was shooting down a street when suddenly a woman came out and casually began to cross the street with a child no older than 10,” said Gunnery Sergeant John Merriman, another Gulf war veteran. “At first I froze on seeing the civilian woman. She then crossed back again with the child and went behind a wall. Within less than a minute a guy with an RPG came out and fired at us from behind the same wall. This happened a second time so I thought, ‘Okay, I get it. Let her come out again’.
She did and this time I took her out with my M-16.” Others were less sanguine.
Mike Brooks was one of the commanders who had given the order to shoot at civilian vehicles. It weighed on his mind, even though he felt he had no choice but to do everything to protect his marines from another ambush.
On Friday, making coffee in the dust, he told me he had been writing a diary, partly for his wife Kelly, a nurse at home in Jacksonville, North Carolina, with their sons Colin, 6, and four-year-old twins Brian and Evan.
When he came to jotting down the incident about the two babies getting killed by his men he couldn’t do it. But he said he would tell her when he got home. I offered to let him call his wife on my satellite phone to tell her he was okay. He turned down the offer and had me write and send her an e-mail instead.
He was too emotional. If she heard his voice, he said, she would know that something was wrong.
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Dowding, you can't imagine how accurate and fast Soviet radio-recon was.
One of my college friends spent 3 years in the Navy sitting at the reciever at Kamchatka intercepting communications. An ordinary sailor, conscripted.
A sailor sitting at the reciever was obliged to recognize transmittions from any "possible enemy" vessel in the Pacific, record it and make a vrief translation. He had to learn hundreeds of abbrievations, code words, ship names and numbers, slang, etc. Then the transcripts were analyzed by recon officers.
It's a well known fact that USSR was able to read US Navy codes until late-80s. I hope that even now there are some nice people like mr. Walker who supply us.
Also, can you point out some things that Ramzaj wrote that contradict with what we get from intervention forces several days later? GRU obviously makes some controlled information leaks just as a present for people who have nothing else but intervent-controlled lies.
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Dowding, can you describe what is Sunday Times, it's political preferences, and your general opinion about that newspaper?
Amazing article.
And this people teach us how to wage war in Chechnya...
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Originally posted by Boroda
Dowding, can you describe what is Sunday Times, it's political preferences, and your general opinion about that newspaper?
Amazing article.
And this people teach us how to wage war in Chechnya...
odd, none of you idiots ever mention things that AREN'T anti american.
Havent seen any posts about iraqi human shields.
Haven't seen any posts about the iraqis murdered trying to escape.
Haven't seen any posts about hospitals turning into armories.
Haven't seen any posts about women shot and tossed off bridges.
Go back to killing your neighbors. You live in a has been country that has resorted to selling weapons in violation of UN sanctions to pay your growing debts. The sooner the Chechs march into moscow the better. And it's only a matter of time.
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Haven't seen that the citizens of Iraq come back from Jordan and Syria from camps the refugees to be at war against aggressors.
Haven't seen that the Arabian world is consolidated.
Haven't seen that the Japanese minister of a defense already to speak about anticipatory impacts on Northern Korea
Haven't seen that you do not have " freedom of a word ", and there is " freedom to speak, that is approved by government "
P.S. While you to not prove, that our country breaks the sanctions UN, - you the liar.
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Haven't seen you answer a single one of his questions.
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A report of coincidently negative sounding radio intercepts covering a 24 hour period can be 'leaked' less than 12 hours after the day ended? Okaaay.
It's a rehash of various sources, with a negative spin on the whole conflict. Successes are ignored, such as...
The boat was carrying its crew and a marine infantry unit. As the result of the attack at least 4 British soldiers were killed and 9 were wounded.
In this incident, in which only one serviceman died, three Iraqi boats were destroyed by Lynx helicopter. Hardly the disaster your apparently objective report portrays.
And this people teach us how to wage war in Chechnya...
And here we come to the crux of the issue. It all stems from the Western criticism of the mis-handling of Chechnya. Your bitterness regarding that is self-evident. I'd almost go as far as saying you're enjoying any hint of difficulty.
Perhaps we ought to follow the Russian example; shell every urban area that poses a problem and kill 80,000 civilians within a couple of months.
That Times report doesn't surprise me at all. This is a tough conflict, with a difficult ROE. Death is a neccessary aspect of war. I'm sure there is some tough fighting going on and we are losing people.
Stop grinning Boroda, it isn't funny at all.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Haven't seen you answer a single one of his questions.
I wouldn't know if he did. I really can't understand a word he said, so I had to put him on ignore. Too many headaches trying to decipher his drivel, only to find I could have read it in english at the Mirror.
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Originally posted by Dowding
APerhaps we ought to follow the Russian example; shell every urban area that poses a problem and kill 80,000 civilians within a couple of months.
We it is good to remember about the ostensibly 100 000 severely killed Albanians in Kosovo.
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Originally posted by Dowding
A report of coincidently negative sounding radio intercepts covering a 24 hour period can be 'leaked' less than 12 hours after the day ended? Okaaay.
It's a rehash of various sources, with a negative spin on the whole conflict. Successes are ignored, such as...
In this incident, in which only one serviceman died, three Iraqi boats were destroyed by Lynx helicopter. Hardly the disaster your apparently objective report portrays.
And here we come to the crux of the issue. It all stems from the Western criticism of the mis-handling of Chechnya. You're bitterness regarding that is self-evident. I'd almost go as far as say you're enjoying any hint of difficulty.
Perhaps we ought to follow the Russian example; shell every urban area that poses a problem and kill 80,000 civilians within a couple of months.
That Times report doesn't surprise me at all. This is a tough conflict, with a difficult ROE. Death is a neccessary aspect of war. I'm sure there is some tough fighting going on and we are losing people.
Stop grinning Boroda, it isn't funny at all.
The times report very well may be correct. Unfortunately, since the regime are now using civilians as shields, posing as civilians, and using civilians as suicide bombers, the civilian death rate is obviously going to rise. A lot.
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The concept " to give back life at a defense of a native Land against aggressors " is inaccessible to understanding Martlet. He will surrender at primary shots.
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We it is good to remember about the ostensibly 100 000 severely killed Albanians in Kosovo.
Are these the Albanians that fled from their towns and villages into the mountains without food or water, because they feared attack from Serbian militia and armed forces?
Or are we now saying that the disgusting NATO aggressors murdered them with carpet bombing or artillery barrages?
Or maybe I've underestimated your paranoid ability to twist any situation that might be a covert attack on Russian superiority into a full blown challenge to its authority?
Apparently the NATO troops went around ****ing skulls too!
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Originally posted by --am--
The concept " to give back life at a defense of a native Land against aggressors " is inaccessible to understanding Martlet. He will surrender at primary shots.
I don't have a clue what you are saying. Find a new translator, or learn english before you post on english speaking forums. Sorry, gonna have to put you back on ignore until it improves.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Apparently the NATO troops went around ****ing skulls too!
Your mass media lied about 100 000 Albanian peace inhabitants, destroyed at ethnic cleanings. Till now of any proofs it was given not. Any tomb.
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Originally posted by Martlet
I don't have a clue what you are saying. Find a new translator, or learn english before you post on english speaking forums. Sorry, gonna have to put you back on ignore until it improves.
It is your problems.
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Am you are pissed because you russains couldnr defeat two fanatical muslim enemies in years and years of conflicts. The united stats has defeated the taliban in a matter of weeks and now 12 days into the iraq war we have half the country and thiongs are going well.
So there, you russians suck and your barbaric way of fighting wars only leads to defeat.
Russia today is a piece of garbage country that will need 200 years to recover from what you communists did to it in the past century.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Am you are pissed because you russains couldnr defeat two fanatical muslim enemies in years and years of conflicts. The united stats has defeated the taliban in a matter of weeks and now 12 days into the iraq war we have half the country and thiongs are going well.
Taliban in Afghanistan has destroyed Northern Alliance. was armed with our weapon and is trained by our instructors. Now Americans sit only in Kabul and them there kill each day.
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Taliban in Afghanistan has destroyed Northern Alliance. was armed with our weapon and is trained by our instructors. Now Americans sit only in Kabul and them there kill each day.
So the Russian government, whilst fighting fundamentalist Islamic rebels in Chechnya is arming and training fundamentalist Islamic rebels in Afghanistan? Does this little gem come from another one of your radio interception, high-speed interpretation, translation and analysis reports?
Are you deliberately trying to destroy the modicum of credibility you believe you have?
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So you are saying it was the Russians who threw out the Taliban?
OMG You are so crazy, its simply amazing!!! WOW!! Thanks to delusional people like you I see russia isnt going anywhere soon. See ya in 200 years!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you are saying it was the Russians who threw out the Taliban?
OMG You are so crazy, its simply amazing!!! WOW!! Thanks to delusional people like you I see russia isnt going anywhere soon. See ya in 200 years!
LOL!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Am you are pissed because you russains couldnr defeat two fanatical muslim enemies in years and years of conflicts. The united stats has defeated the taliban in a matter of weeks and now 12 days into the iraq war we have half the country and thiongs are going well.
GH, first of all, your comments towards posts from --am--, Miko and me makes it absolutely clear that your hatred towards Orthodox people is absolutely patologic.
You already asked me about Afghan war, and I answered. Very typical to ask and then don't bother reading answers. Afghan war was a complete success despite of your aid to bandits and terrorists. Probably you watched Rambo movies too much. Go take some sedative pills.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So there, you russians suck and your barbaric way of fighting wars only leads to defeat.
Yes, we definetly suck, we should use new advanced Croatian/nazi techiques, tested and practiced in Srpska Krajna. Removing 350,000 people and drowning any effort to defend in blood is what YOU called a "nessessary measure".
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Russia today is a piece of garbage country that will need 200 years to recover from what you communists did to it in the past century.
Sure. If not bloody commies - you Croatian assistants could be under a warm breast of your nazi teachers, that you have shown many times you adore so much.
Keep on, herr Stutmbahnfuhrer.
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LOL You guys are so insecure about the Orthodox church why is that? Why would I have anything against it? I have family who are in Serbia as well and i suppose they are Orthodox, I really dont know i was never too relgious myself. But have it your way I guess, if you wanna feel like the victim go ahead.
IRRC I think you guys even tried to call the NATO attack on Serbia and that butcher Milosevic a protestant jihad against the Orthodox church. But thats really funny.
I think you will be happy to know, and if you didnt know you would be happy to invent, that the evil USA helped plan our offensive in 1995 that finally liberated the last 1/3 of our land from serbian invaders amd their local conspiators. There were likely some war crimes as in most of that brutal war but nothing like the sort of things the Serbs commited against the bosnian muslims..
But let me ask you this?
In your mind was there ever a time in the 1990s yougosalv civil war and aftermath when the serbs were not the primary victim?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you are saying it was the Russians who threw out the Taliban?
OMG You are so crazy, its simply amazing!!! WOW!! Thanks to delusional people like you I see russia isnt going anywhere soon. See ya in 200 years!
While yankees bombed some mountains and spread leaflets - our 201st division built 3 pontoon bridges across Pianj river and send hundreeds of armoured vehicles, tons of ammunituin and weapons, together with instructors and consultants. Fortunately, Afghan officers corps traditionally (since 1920s) speak Russian.
OK, now I understand what that "war on terrorism" mean. We do all the job, yankees make pictures at Kabul.
Very similar with the Land of Free bombing poor Serbs fighting police operations against terrorists and drug-dealers. WTG.
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Originally posted by Boroda
OK, now I understand what that "war on terrorism" mean. We do all the job, yankees make pictures at Kabul.
It gets better!!!! I suppose when we win in Iraq war you will claim it was actually won by the Russians because you didnt sell them the best tanks with autoloaders.. It must be great being a lunatic - you are never wrong, never defeated, never sad, never hungry, never cold, never unemployed, there is no crime, and all is happy happy joy joy for you!!!
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Originally posted by Boroda
While yankees bombed some mountains and spread leaflets - our 201st division built 3 pontoon bridges across Pianj river and send hundreeds of armoured vehicles, tons of ammunituin and weapons, together with instructors and consultants. Fortunately, Afghan officers corps traditionally (since 1920s) speak Russian.
OK, now I understand what that "war on terrorism" mean. We do all the job, yankees make pictures at Kabul.
Very similar with the Land of Free bombing poor Serbs fighting police operations against terrorists and drug-dealers. WTG.
HAHAHA, the paint peels, and the true colors are shown.
Another jealous american wannabe clinging to the knowledge that while he once lived in a world superpower, he now stands in line for toilet paper, selling what's left of its military to 3rd world countries in order to keep the lights on.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Are these the Albanians that fled from their towns and villages into the mountains without food or water, because they feared attack from Serbian militia and armed forces?
Or are we now saying that the disgusting NATO aggressors murdered them with carpet bombing or artillery barrages?
Damn, NATO planes spread leaflets urging Albanians to leave Kosovo! And 90% of the refuges ran away from your "precision" bombings. Are you being told that it were bloody Serbs who made them leave!?
JFYI: Serbian Air Defence was protecting all population of Kosovo, both Orthodox and Moslim.
Another thing to know is that the total nimber of victims in Kosovo conflict was 320 from both sides defore "humanitarian bombings" started. 10 times more people were killed by your "peacemakers".
Now tell me where are all that mass graves that "allies" were suppose to investigate in Kosovo. Bulltoejam. A lie. There were no mass graves. "Atlants" always lie. And NATO _IS_ an agressive and dangerous block.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
It gets better!!!! I suppose when we win in Iraq war you will claim it was actually won by the Russians because you didnt sell them the best tanks with autoloaders.. It must be great being a lunatic - you are never wrong, never defeated, never sad, never hungry, never cold, never unemployed, there is no crime, and all is happy happy joy joy for you!!!
It is odd that in most of our fights, we are fighting against Russian arms. And winning.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Now tell me where are all that mass graves that "allies" were suppose to investigate in Kosovo. Bulltoejam. A lie. There were no mass graves. "Atlants" always lie. And NATO _IS_ an agressive and dangerous block.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/368524.stm
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Originally posted by Boroda
"Atlants" always lie. And NATO _IS_ an agressive and dangerous block.
As opposed to the peace loving army of the old Warsaw Pact and now the peace loving boy scouts of the russian army.
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Originally posted by Martlet
HAHAHA, the paint peels, and the true colors are shown.
Another jealous american wannabe clinging to the knowledge that while he once lived in a world superpower, he now stands in line for toilet paper, selling what's left of its military to 3rd world countries in order to keep the lights on.
Simply tell me did you know about Russian support to Northern Alliance, saving American "operation" in Afghanistan. Yes/No. Then go ask your free press why didn't they tell you.
Now tell what do you know about American aid to Chechen terrorists. Go again ask your free press.
We made things clear with bread lines, now what is left to you is that toilet paper. Hard to imagine the life without soft, gentle paper, taking care of your hemmoroids? Is this written for people like you:
http://lookinside-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35lerkURa1actg32Dxh8Fp6qZR/IPFDq1bmfUT3s8a1utWCWMRBlHjV8dGSxI/oPETzhw=
(http://lookinside-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35lerkURa1actg32Dxh8Fp6qZR/IPFDq1bmfUT3s8a1utWCWMRBlHjV8dGSxI/oPETzhw=)
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Intercepted radio transmissions? :eek: Now I know all that --am--- posted is BS... and "naturally" backed by Dowding and Broda as being the truth.
Losers!
:D
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Originally posted by Boroda
Simply tell me did you know about Russian support to Northern Alliance, saving American "operation" in Afghanistan. Yes/No. Then go ask your free press why didn't they tell you.
Now tell what do you know about American aid to Chechen terrorists. Go again ask your free press.
We made things clear with bread lines, now what is left to you is that toilet paper. Hard to imagine the life without soft, gentle paper, taking care of your hemmoroids? Is this written for people like you:
http://lookinside-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35lerkURa1actg32Dxh8Fp6qZR/IPFDq1bmfUT3s8a1utWCWMRBlHjV8dGSxI/oPETzhw=
Actually, our press has reported both your support of the Northern Alliance AND our aid to the Chechyen rebels.
You can thank us for completing the job you couldn't do in Afghanistan anytime, and perhaps if you stopped slaughtering the chech civilians, we wouldn't have to arm them. Georgia has been a far better ally than moscow ever has.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Actually, our press has reported both your support of the Northern Alliance AND our aid to the Chechyen rebels.
You can thank us for completing the job you couldn't do in Afghanistan anytime, and perhaps if you stopped slaughtering the chech civilians, we wouldn't have to arm them. Georgia has been a far better ally than moscow ever has.
It's YOU who have to thank us for helping to correct your mistakes in Afghanistan. Taliban was trained and fed by Pakistan and USA, it's no secret. It was a lame attempt to restore stability in the region, that was lost after USSR withdrew it's 40th Army from behind the river.
As for Georgia being a "better ally" - just wait until Shevardnadze, who was bought by americans when he was a Gorby's foreign minister, is dead, and then look how your "advisors" and "trainers" will be kicked out of Georgia in 12 hours.
I really want that U2 spy plane that violated Russian airspace on Georgian border 3 times last month to finaly be intercepted and landed somewhere in Mozdok.
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Originally posted by Boroda
It's YOU who have to thank us for helping to correct your mistakes in Afghanistan. Taliban was trained and fed by Pakistan and USA, it's no secret. It was a lame attempt to restore stability in the region, that was lost after USSR withdrew it's 40th Army from behind the river.
As for Georgia being a "better ally" - just wait until Shevardnadze, who was bought by americans when he was a Gorby's foreign minister, is dead, and then look how your "advisors" and "trainers" will be kicked out of Georgia in 12 hours.
I really want that U2 spy plane that violated Russian airspace on Georgian border 3 times last month to finaly be intercepted and landed somewhere in Mozdok.
HAHA, keep trying to turn your failure in Afghan into a win.
As for Georgia, keep dreaming.
Spy Plane? Noone on that continent has the ability to force us to land anything anywhere. It will be much easier for you once you accept that you are a 3rd world country now, and stop trying to act like a super power.
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Yea I'm sure the afghan people were just itching for some more of that cherihed soviet style stablityt, just like the finns, the baltic states, the hungarians, the checzs, and the checens..
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I say we replace that U2 with a B2....heehee :D
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Originally posted by AWMac
I say we replace that U2 with a B2....heehee :D
Not possible, the russians wont loan them to us anymore... :D
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Intercepted radio transmissions? Now I know all that --am--- posted is BS... and "naturally" backed by Dowding and Broda as being the truth.
Losers!
I suggest you read my replies again, AWMac.
Boroda - I feel very sorry for you. Your bitterness and paranoia must be soul destroying, apart from the clear errosion of objection reason.
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It - American stability?
(http://lj.hotbox.ru/31.3.3/nabr.jpg)
Tomorow Paris, speak?
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Originally posted by Martlet
HAHA, keep trying to turn your failure in Afghan into a win.
It was definetly a political victory of American administration, but Soviet Army controlled 90% of the country, and there were no religious fanatics that appeared later with the help of the "Land of Free". They were building a civilian society, not Moslim fundamentalism.
Originally posted by Martlet
As for Georgia, keep dreaming.
Unlike you - I talk to Georgians almost every day. I know how they love Shevardnadze, his Chechen friends and American sponsors.
I bet he'll be overthrown in a matter of weeks if Russian government will get tired of charity and stop supplying them gas, oil and electricity. So far it's done only to reduce sufferings of Georgian people, former one of the richest Soviet republics, lead to a complete disaster by that KGB emplyee.
Originally posted by Martlet
Spy Plane? Noone on that continent has the ability to force us to land anything anywhere. It will be much easier for you once you accept that you are a 3rd world country now, and stop trying to act like a super power.
American recon plane crews are so brave they made a beautiful present to Chinese in 2001. BTW, go buy yourself a map, China and Russia are on the same continent.
As for the "3rd world country" - go try to invade Russia or Belorussia as you did with helpless Iraq and Yugoslavia.
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Tomorow Paris, speak?
Figure it out for yourself....
:D
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It was definetly a political victory of American administration, but Soviet Army controlled 90% of the country, and there were no religious fanatics that appeared later with the help of the "Land of Free". They were building a civilian society, not Moslim fundamentalism.
Keep believing the crap. You must have read that in pravda
I bet he'll be overthrown in a matter of weeks if Russian government will get tired of charity and stop supplying them gas, oil and electricity. So far it's done only to reduce sufferings of Georgian people, former one of the richest Soviet republics, lead to a complete disaster by that KGB emplyee.
More "wait untils" and "somedays". Right now, it's the truth. Any argument about "tomorrow", unless you have a precedent, is pure speculation.
American recon plane crews are so brave they made a beautiful present to Chinese in 2001. BTW, go buy yourself a map, China and Russia are on the same continent.
That plane was rammed. I suppose if you want to sacrifice a pilot and ram our plane, it will land. Then we'll tell you to give it back before we kick your ass, and like the Chinese, you will.
As for the "3rd world country" - go try to invade Russia or Belorussia as you did with helpless Iraq and Yugoslavia.
truth hurts, huh?
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Originally posted by AWMac
Intercepted radio transmissions? :eek: Now I know all that --am--- posted is BS... and "naturally" backed by Dowding and Broda as being the truth.
err... I think you missed the part where Dowding thinks it's all a bunch of BS. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dowding
I suggest you read my replies again, AWMac.
Boroda - I feel very sorry for you. Your bitterness and paranoia must be soul destroying, apart from the clear errosion of objection reason.
Dowding, can you give me more detailed situational reports then that guy Ramzaj gives?
Again, for those who think we have bears at the streets, wear fur hats all year and always drink vodka:
Russia has several radio recon ships in Persian gulf. Russia still has the world biggest recon sattelite group. There ARE certain groups of Russian military interested in "organized" leaks of information.
Think! (c) IBM.
Even if Ramzaj's reports contain some disinformation - they are worth reading.
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Martlet, giving the spy plane with all equipment to the "possible enemy" is the highest possible stage of cowardice and treason.
No country is allowed to invade other's airspace. Especially when the plane collects information that can be delivered to terrorist organisations and help them killing Russian servicemen restoring order and preventing genocide, slavery and mass murders.
USSR DID control Afghanistan. Ulike you, I have an opportunity to talk to people who served there. US has control only of a part of Kabul and nearby Bagram airfield.
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Reread it DMF....I sorta missed it on the first run.
Disregard Dowding.
*attempting to exit gracefully*
:D
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Dowding, can you give me more detailed situational reports then that guy Ramzaj gives?
Again, for those who think we have bears at the streets, wear fur hats all year and always drink vodka:
Russia has several radio recon ships in Persian gulf. Russia still has the world biggest recon sattelite group. There ARE certain groups of Russian military interested in "organized" leaks of information.
Think! (c) IBM.
Even if Ramzaj's reports contain some disinformation - they are worth reading.
Detail does not automatically translate to accuracy. I don't doubt Russia's recon ability. I simply doubt the veracity, accuracy and reliabilty of this source. This is the internet, afterall.
If they contain disinformation? If? The bias seems completely towards a negative view of the conflict. The undoubted successes are not described in any detail whatsoever. They are worth reading - but I think only a fool would not apply a handful of salt to the reports.
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Originally posted by Boroda
No country is allowed to invade other's airspace. Especially when the plane collects information that can be delivered to terrorist organisations and help them killing Russian servicemen restoring order and preventing genocide, slavery and mass murders.
And if you had the power to do something about it, you would. But alas, Russia IS a 3rd world country, powerless to protect it's borders from a country as weak as the US.
Try sending a spy plane over here and see what happens.
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I know the Russian people to be proud and competent....very resourceful. A good people who love their families and wish for nothing more than a peaceful life affording opportunity to live out their lives as they choose to.
In that nation, just as in any you might mention, are those who would wish failure on the US effort in Iraq or any other effort for that matter....hardened hearts, full of hate for the US and what we stand for. We have them here in our own country....a very small and pitiful group who are seen, heard and then ignored.
As many nations have before, once again am and boroda have misjudged our president, the citizens of the US and especially are troops....if pushed, this president will not back down.
The Japanese made the same mistake at Pearl Harbor....I believe the quote was "we have awakened a sleeping giant".
Times and methods are different now, but the resolve of the American citizen is not....we turn against ourselves, insult one another, fight one another over what we believe....however, give us a common foe and no other nation in the world will join together faster and more deliberately than the US.
Some may be right in that our actions today may bring future reactions against our nation....I say let it happen and let it happen now....I find the most benefit recieved by the past 2 years of circumstances, is that we now have a much clearer picture of who are truly our friends in this world....I'de rather face my enemies with a fighting chance, then to get stabbed in the back by those who say they are our friends only to benefit themselves.
God will sort all of this out....in the meantime, I stand in support of trying to do what's right in this world, rather than what is politically expedient.
Post what you may my Russian comrades...it won't change a thing:)
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Originally posted by Rude
I know the Russian people to be proud and competent....very resourceful. A good people who love their families and wish for nothing more than a peaceful life affording opportunity to live out their lives as they choose to.
In that nation, just as in any you might mention, are those who would wish failure on the US effort in Iraq or any other effort for that matter....hardened hearts, full of hate for the US and what we stand for. We have them here in our own country....a very small and pitiful group who are seen, heard and then ignored.
As many nations have before, once again am and boroda have misjudged our president, the citizens of the US and especially are troops....if pushed, this president will not back down.
The Japanese made the same mistake at Pearl Harbor....I believe the quote was "we have awakened a sleeping giant".
Times and methods are different now, but the resolve of the American citizen is not....we turn against ourselves, insult one another, fight one another over what we believe....however, give us a common foe and no other nation in the world will join together faster and more deliberately than the US.
Some may be right in that our actions today may bring future reactions against our nation....I say let it happen and let it happen now....I find the most benefit recieved by the past 2 years of circumstances, is that we now have a much clearer picture of who are truly our friends in this world....I'de rather face my enemies with a fighting chance, then to get stabbed in the back by those who say they are our friends only to benefit themselves.
God will sort all of this out....in the meantime, I stand in support of trying to do what's right in this world, rather than what is politically expedient.
Post what you may my Russian comrades...it won't change a thing:)
Man, I need to develope some tact.
You say "screw you" and make it sound so good.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Detail does not automatically translate to accuracy. I don't doubt Russia's recon ability. I simply doubt the veracity, accuracy and reliabilty of this source. This is the internet, afterall.
If they contain disinformation? If? The bias seems completely towards a negative view of the conflict. The undoubted successes are not described in any detail whatsoever. They are worth reading - but I think only a fool would not apply a handful of salt to the reports.
Sure, they shold be read with understanding that they serve some purpose other then simply informing our possible enemy of our recon capabilities. It is a part of information warfare. But so far I didn't see any "facts" there that can be directly proved to be a lie.
"Negative view" for you is a positive view for me. I think that it's no secret that I'll be upset if intervents will win this war (and they probably will).
Sorry for my almost-hysterical posts. You know, GH simply pisses me off, I can't tolerate him. Now I got myself a bottle of Cabernet and chilled down a little. Nice when you can drink a glass or two at the workplace. ;)
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Rude, thank you!
:)
All I can add is that I have deepest respect to any servicemen who do their combat duty. It's not their fault that they have to spilltheir blood for the interests of some stupid politicians :( They simply do what they have to.
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LOL Now its my fault you are raving lunatic with no connection to reality... Its no wonder russia is in such a bad state you all just get drunk and talk of phantom victories and the good old days whenever anyone points out how bad it is instead of trying to move forward and improve the situation. See ya in 200 years!
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USSR DID control Afghanistan. Ulike you, I have an opportunity to talk to people who served there. US has control only of a part of Kabul and nearby Bagram airfield
Awfully presumptious of you boroda...I have three Russian friends here who all served in Afganistan....horror stories they share about the failures....one whose job was to collect, remove and transport dead Soviet troops speaks of the lack of planning and leadership in the Soviet command which brought about the deaths of his comrades.
War is never a good thing...sometimes it's necessary I guess...at least it seems that way to me...who knows, like I said, God will sort it all out...we all will reap what we sow...every one of us.
The best solution is to simply love one another....unfortunetly, the nature of man simply will not allow this to happen on a wholesale basis.
I wish not one of you any ill will, regardless of where your from or what you believe in....I just get worked up at times because I'm a foolish man....but as long as my country and my brothers are engaged in combat, I will support their efforts and my presidents...nothin personal:)
NP Boroda....best thing we all could do, is fly more and post less in this crappy forum....I was alot happier as an AH subscriber before I found this rotten place called the O'Club....Dale should rename it....perhaps The Outhouse would be more appropriate...at least then, new players would have some indication as to what they'll get themselves into:)
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Nice Rude! *Ovation* and Ditto on what Martlet said.
Boroda still hasn't caught on to that yet! LOL :D
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Boroda, bored again ?
and what?!?!?! you get to drink at work ?!?!
ok, now I'm envious.. sorta.
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Rude, there were several "stages" of Afghan war, and situation changed from nice and almost peacefull entering the country (Afghans still think "Shuravi" are their friends), to severe failures and losses, then, with some experience and change of command losses were minimized, and almost every goal reached. The Panjsher gorge was taken with the loss of only 2 men (newbee officer shot by a sniper and a soldier who stepped on a landmine), after terrible losses in futile attempts for several years. Then came the "retreat" and again catastrophic losses, some units went back several weeks after Gromov declared he was the "last Soviet soldier in Afghanistan". Anyway, the decision to withdraw was absolutely political, and can be called criminal. The war never ended, it simply moved towards the borders of former USSR. We still have a complete motorinfantry dividion, with aviation and other "additional" troops in Tajikistan, not speaking of the Commonwealth border guards, mostly Russian too. I have friends who lost their health and lost many comrades on the "peacekeeping" mission there. :(
The whole Afghan war was a silly adventure :( Instead of letting the things go the way they did, Soviet government should have better make sure Zakir-Shah wasn't overthrown in 1973. Afghanistan was our traditional ally, and all that happened there in the 70s lead to what we have now. No good when the country is the "boxing ring" for two superpowers.
As for you supporting your troops and president - I am not surprised and only can say that I'd be surprised if you didn't think so.
Again, the quote from Jethro Tull:
My words but a wisper, your deafness - a shout
I can't make you think, but I can make you feel
:)
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
Boroda, bored again ?
and what?!?!?! you get to drink at work ?!?!
ok, now I'm envious.. sorta.
Hehe :)
Working as an IT engineer in a big RAS institute has some advantages: earning about $40 monthly gives me a certain degree of fredom to do whatever I want :) Anyway they'll don't find anyone who'll do my job for such money, and I have plenty of time to work on other contracts :) We say: "They are trying to look like they pay us, and we try to look as if we work". I think I can drink at the server room, especially when I know that institute's network runs on the hardware I bought for my own money :)
More to say: the only attempt to fire me was made because I stay at work too late! :D
The disadvantages are that I can't bring friends (I still remember when we had WB meetings with glintwein) or girls here :D
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P.S.: It's not April Fool, it's just Russia ;)
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Originally posted by Boroda
P.S.: It's not April Fool, it's just Russia ;)
Aint that the truth...
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earning about $40 monthly
WOW:eek:
they'd better be supplying the booze and women to make up for the shortfall !!!
Working as an IT engineer in a big RAS institute
ahh.. that explains it... just like Rip and I.. a lot of time to surf the web
hey Ripster.. do you get to drink on the job?... sigh
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I'm gonna go spend $40 dollars today and tommorow too just for the hell of it. :D
Gawd this country sucks...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'm gonna go spend $40 dollars today and tommorow too just for the hell of it. :D
Gawd this country sucks...
heh, amen to that.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'm gonna go spend $40 dollars today and tommorow too just for the hell of it. :D
Gawd this country sucks...
US stinks!? I have to disagree, unless it started to stink since I was there in 89.
Hint: $40 monthly is probably enough for tobacco. If not - you'll smoke good ol' Prima, sans filter, $.1 per pack :)
/*Boroda lights his "XXI Century Medium Taste" biofilter cigarette, taking a sip from a glass of 1998 Moldavian Cabernet */
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Ok, now I'm confused...
At one point early in this thread, the brave and battle hardened Iraqi's were using ultra lethal Russian armaments to make the Yankee's retreat on all fronts, and hundreds if not thousands of M1A2 Abrahams and M2 Bradley's were being destroyed. Not to mention the hundreds of casulties the US media were not reporting.
But now, late in this thread. The US is a big mean bully picking on poor little third world Iraq.
Which is it? :confused:
Come on my Russian friends. If you want to spread propaganda, feel free. I find it amusing. But at least keep your propaganda consistent. That way you might at least convince a few fanatics like Weazel and MG.
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Vermillion, Iraqis are doing surprisingly well, despite of the obvious superiority of "coalition". They are even capable to counter-attack. Iraqi aviation and SAMs still all intact, probably preparing several surprises to intervents.
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10 quid says Iraqi aviation is not intact.
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The Americans count, that it is enough to take Bagdad and to displace Sàddam and war finished... The large nonsense. For occupation it is required not less than of 100 000 soldiers, which will be destroyed slow, but is continuous "partizanen"
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Originally posted by Dowding
10 quid says Iraqi aviation is not intact.
Do you remember how many destroyed tanks were found by NATO troops in Kosovo after 2 months of bombings? Only two.
So far it looks like intervents waste their weapons for decoys, like they did in 1991...
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Am
Not true, you will see
I suspect you posts will all disappear in a few weeks as your drivel dries up and even you wont believe it
stay tuned
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Boroda is right there is still tons of time for the Iraqi airforce to do a mass sortie to Iran...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Boroda is right there is still tons of time for the Iraqi airforce to do a mass sortie to Iran...
So far Egyptian new agency reported Iraqi aviation started recon flights over intervents positions and Kuwait. No planes lost.
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Originally posted by Boroda
So far Egyptian new agency reported Iraqi aviation started recon flights over intervents positions and Kuwait. No planes lost.
Everyone that believes that stand on yer head.
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Originally posted by Boroda
So far Egyptian new agency reported Iraqi aviation started recon flights over intervents positions and Kuwait. No planes lost.
HAHAHAHA
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Yes the kuwaiti sky is black with iraqi fighters...
BTW all the damaged and smoking US tanks in the pictures are clearly just decoys, in truth after two weeks of bombing by the iraqi airforce and RPG/Kornet fire so far the iraqis have only shot up 2 hummves.
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Overview
Iraq, the proud new 51st state of the USA, was once a seething hive of freedom-hating terrorists linked to international terrorism. American-led nation building projects begun after the 2003 War of Liberation have transformed a population of terrorized victims into members of an open society that values individuality, international copyright laws and human rights.
The world’s first known civilization began along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in what is now the 51st state. The ancient Greeks called Iraq “Mesopotamia” (between rivers) because it lay between the Tigris and Euphrates. Iraq became part of the Arab Empire in the seventh century and was later absorbed into the Ottoman Turks’ empire.
After the collapse of the Ottomans, the British Empire attempted to civilize Iraq. The British had good intentions but, in typical European fashion, moved too slowly. The benevolent British were expelled, leading to a series of power struggles that catapulted evil war criminal Saddam Hussein to power. For the next thirty years, the people of Iraq suffered through Saddam’s reign of terror. Though he cleverly concealed all evidence, there can be no doubt that he was in some way responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, leaving US and COW (Coalition of the Willing) forces no choice but to liberate the Iraqi people. With few exceptions, surviving Iraqis signaled their approval of the invasion by remaining in their homes under the 24-hour curfew imposed by COW Command, which was later revealed to be a form of silent support.
Capital
Iraq’s capital and largest city is Reagan (formerly Karbala). Baghdad, the historic capital, was annihilated during the war of liberation, after intelligence reports indicated that the besieged dictator was prepared to unleash weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological warheads, if COW forces came within artillery range of the city. This made the city a legitimate wartime target that was then pacified with minimum necessary force by the humanitarian efforts of the United States Armed Forces. The ruins of the former capital have become a favorite site for paintball games pitting different units of the COW occupation forces against each other, and Viceroy Barbara Bodine is negotiating with the producers of Survivor VIII who hope to set the next season of the popular “reality TV” series in the scenic and historic ruins. It has also proved to be a popular venue for British and Spanish “Ibiza” raves, with its own musical style and glow-sticks made of depleted uranium. The popular underground musical party movement became known as “Baghdad” and it described itself as “apolitical” and “just about bringing people together.” As Governor Kasey Kasem never tires of pointing out, “Baghdad was never such a happ’nin’ town until it was razed!”
Government
Iraqis, as citizens of the newest state of the USA, have sworn to defend the principles of Democracy and Private Property as defined in the Constitution. As recently as 2003, Iraqis’ knowledge of Democracy was limited to information gleaned from pamphlets airdropped by US Air Force bombers in the early days of the war. With the rapid advance of Coalition troops through Iraq, information sources were diversified and by June 2003 Fox News and CNBC were broadcasting throughout the future state with Arabic subtitles, promoting a nascent Iraqi stock market which CNBC claimed was “massively undervalued.”
Access to information has since mushroomed, and Iraqis now can watch all five US networks and order cable TV packages offering up to 150 channels. Local media, long monopolized by the Ba’ath Party, has witnessed a renaissance that involved a flurry of takeovers by experienced investors like AOL-Time Warner and the New York Times Company.
The new sense of freedom is everywhere, from over-the-counter bacon sales to strolling Southern Baptist missionaries on “Mosque Watch.” The 51st State’s happy citizens are too busy joining the American consensus to bother with old rivalries. That’s why Iraqis love to say, “Even our Shiite is Sunni in Sunni Iraq!” American Iraq is the envy of the entire Arab world. Regrettably, this envy has led a few fanatics to commit terrorist attacks, including the cowardly Dec. 17, 2003 sinking of the USS Enterprise, the bombing of the George W. Bush Sr. Golf and Sumerian Tablet Museum, Kirkuk Mormon Cathedral and other symbolic targets throughout Iraq and the Persian Gulf. The Office of Homeland Security has since required that all Americans who gained citizenship after Sept. 11, 2003, register with local authorities and carry documentation at all times.
Geography
Much of Iraq is desert. Iraq’s limited arable land was lost during the War of Liberation, when COW air forces were forced to use defoliants to deny cover to terrorist rebels. There is still no conclusive evidence that depleted uranium weapons are at all related to the fact that nearly sixty percent of the population suffers from bone marrow cancer, a rate known to be common throughout the world. Iraq now depends on Archer Daniels Midland for most of its foodstuffs. After COW sapper teams used Ice-9 to permanently freeze the Tigris and Euphrates, drinking water became a concern. Iraq’s drinking water comes from Northern California as part of a pipeline agreement in which Iraqi oil is traded for potable water on a 1:1 basis.
Economy
Stateside American assistance, pioneered by Halliburton, has been instrumental in restarting the oil industry and stabilizing prices. Iraq’s 50 sister states in the continental US are loyal customers for oil, Iraq’s main export. Iraq’s other main export is Democracy, with USAID workers flooding into Reagan. The state is developing into a beachhead of liberty in the Arab world, mirroring the success of de-communiziation of Eastern Europe. The presence of the largest military base on American soil, located 30 miles east of Baghdad’s ruins, is a boon to the local economy. The trade in kidneys from live donors also has shown a significant addition to the GDP of the state.
Facts In Brief
Statehood: Sept. 11, 2003, the 51st state.
State abbreviation: IQ (postal).
State capital: Reagan (formerly Karbala) since 2003. Earlier capital was Baghdad (c.800-2003).
State motto: “Freedom has its price.”
Popular name: The Liberty Shield State.
State song: “Killing An Arab.”
State bird: Predator drone.
State animal: Giant Scorpion.
Area: 169,235 sq. mi. Greatest distances-north-south, 530 mi.; east-west, 495 mi. Coastline-40 mi.
Population: 16,425,000; ranks 3rd among states.
Viceroy-for life: Barbara Bodine.
Governor (serves at pleasure of Viceroy): Kasey Kasem.
US senators: 0.
US representatives: 1.
Electoral college votes: 1.
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Hey AM go masterbate you will feel much better!!
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Originally posted by Boroda
So far Egyptian new agency reported Iraqi aviation started recon flights over intervents positions and Kuwait. No planes lost.
Ahh, not a chance.
P.S. I thought the cold war was over.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes the kuwaiti sky is black with iraqi fighters...
BTW all the damaged and smoking US tanks in the pictures are clearly just decoys, in truth after two weeks of bombing by the iraqi airforce and RPG/Kornet fire so far the iraqis have only shot up 2 hummves.
GH, why didn't glorious "coaliton" forces yet have a parade in Baghdad? It was supposed to be over in one week, wasn't it? Euronews already said that Basra "will be" the first major "coalition" victory. How soon? When they will bomb water lines and food supplies and wait for 900 days, like your "elder brothers" did to the city where I was born? JFYI: they didn't succeed.
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Originally posted by Boroda
GH, why didn't glorious "coaliton" forces yet have a parade in Baghdad? It was supposed to be over in one week, wasn't it? Euronews already said that Basra "will be" the first major "coalition" victory. How soon? When they will bomb water lines and food supplies and wait for 900 days, like your "elder brothers" did to the city where I was born? JFYI: they didn't succeed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/599880.stm
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LOL --am--!!!
Where did you get it?!
"Still believe in democracy? Then we fly for YOU!!!"
:D :D :D
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Originally posted by Martlet
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/599880.stm
Martlet, December, 2000, is old news.
Thanks for showing who's our real enemy though.
Why not give political shelter to all Proud Chechen Freedom Fighters? You have "democracy", why not just call your congressman?
BTW, did you post that link to show that you think GH's teachers were right? Yeah, that russkies are untermenschen... They must not have any rights to protect themselves!
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What does that have to do with your ridiculous steement that Iraqi fighters are flying unopposed over Kuwait?
I think you are just pissed off because we dont go around making tulips of ourselves flattening cities like your russian uncivilized barbarian hordes from the east did in grozny and rest of checnya - or were all those cities decoys too. And you know what we will have our parade in Baghdad, at least after the USA army has won there will be a baghdad left to parade thrgough and streets on which to parade on.
So go ahead and stuff it you barbarian. :mad:
Here is the russian idea of civilized city fighting!!!
GROZNY 1995! NOT 1945!
(http://www.nl12.nl/images/nl12/russia/foto022b.jpg)
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Originally posted by Boroda
When they will bomb water lines and food supplies and wait for 900 days, like your "elder brothers" did to the city where I was born? JFYI: they didn't succeed.
Careful what you say, the russians tried the same to Berlin right after the war. If not for the berlin airlift, the people of west berlin would have starved.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I think you are just pissed off because we dont go around making tulips of ourselves flattening cities like your russian uncivilized barbarian hordes from the east did in grozny and rest of checnya - or were all those cities decoys too.
Herr Sturmbahnfuhrer finaly speaks his native language! Heil!
Look at the map, you, miserable neonazi. If you think Russians came to Grozniy from the East - you have to turn the map.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And you know what we will have our parade in Baghdad, at least after the USA army has won there will be a baghdad left to parade thrgough and streets on which to parade on.
Baron von der Pshik forgot about Russian bayonet :) (a quote from Soviet WWII song).
Did you buy tickets for that parade in adance? I have to disappoint you: the price will drop soon.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So go ahead and stuff it you barbarian. :mad:
Here is the russian idea of civilized city fighting!!!
If the enemy doesn't surrender - it has to be destroyed. I wonder if intervents will let civilians escape from Basra and Baghdad for several weeks, like Russians did in Grozniy. And then, if they'll try to storm the Iraqi cities - I doubt there will be that much left. And, unfortunately, every ruin will be wet with blood of "coalition" soldiers, like the ruins of Stalingrad and Berlin.
Go teach Russians how to take fortified cities. Or how to defend them.
Sorry, I am really mad at this miserable teenager who have read too many books about nazis vs. "Jewish hordes of Asian bolsheviks".
:(
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Careful what you say, the russians tried the same to Berlin right after the war. If not for the berlin airlift, the people of west berlin would have starved.
But that was different, the berlin thing in 1948 was only a kind-hearted effort by the benevolent Stalin to, to, to to uhhhmm, ah hell I'll just let Boroda fill in the details for everyone...
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Careful what you say, the russians tried the same to Berlin right after the war. If not for the berlin airlift, the people of west berlin would have starved.
Carefull what you say.
I was born in Leningrad. If you understand what I mean.
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Oooohhh.... Look how he ignores the atrocities commoted by his friends just a few years ago..
Say what you want boroda but dont expect anyone here to buy your humanitarian concern for the iraqis, its plainly false after your behavior in grozny and more specifically after your racistt excuses for that behavior.
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http://www.amina.com/war/landmines.html
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Boroda,
So it's ok if it's the freedom spreading Russians doing this?
If the enemy doesn't surrender - it has to be destroyed.
Looking at that picture, I can understand why you would be horrified by your country's actions....oh, wait, you're not. I can understand why you took to the streets to protest against your government committing such horrendous atrocities against a major civilian population center. Please post some of those protest signs you carried. After all, you are against this type of action aren't you?
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Originally posted by Boroda
Carefull what you say.
I was born in Leningrad. If you understand what I mean.
Of course I do. It was meant under the premise that two wrongs don't make it right.
BTW, there was no war when the russians did this, the war was over. They did it to civilians. And yes, I know the civilian price the russians paid during ww2.
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Want to look on the friends - terrorists-chechenyans?
Wishing I can send film about these animals, which so gently loves GRUNHERZ
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Chechnya?
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yes...
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Ive seen the films I think they are awful and I think the chechen fighters are warcriminals. But If you think blowing up Grozny wholesale will help stop these guys then more power to you, I simply disagree.
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Originally posted by Martlet
http://www.amina.com/war/landmines.html
Now you better be responsible for the things you posted.
Russian Army never uses landmines against childern. And for chemical weapons in Chechnya - it is an outright lie.
Quoting terrorist propaganda sites surely is the last thing that makes picture of your sick personality complete.
Enough for me.
I am out of this discussion.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Now you better be responsible for the things you posted.
Russian Army never uses landmines against childern. And for chemical weapons in Chechnya - it is an outright lie.
Quoting terrorist propaganda sites surely is the last thing that makes picture of your sick personality complete.
Enough for me.
I am out of this discussion.
HAHA, it's ok when you do it, but when the shoe is on the other foot....
Point proved. Thank you very much.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But If you think blowing up Grozny wholesale will help stop these guys then more power to you, I simply disagree.
Nazi too did not want, that them judged in Nuremberg.
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AM posting this type of picture is wrong and should get you baned
We don't need this type of BS here.
I for one will never read anything you say, you have just censered yourself.
I feel sorry for your warped ass!
You have gone to far this time
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Truth is not pleasant? You have got used to live in the world of Myths and fairy tales, shown to you CNN?
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So far Egyptian new agency reported Iraqi aviation started recon flights over intervents positions and Kuwait. No planes lost.
Boroda maybe you shouldn't drink so heavily ?
I have to admit, you made me laugh my bellybutton off today ! thank you!
Even you have to admit this is a pretty tall-tale.