Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on April 01, 2003, 04:43:53 PM
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Anyone heard anything about how the M16 is performing in this war?
Since its only semi-automatic and 3 round burst, some say this puts U.S. troops at a disadvantage. Especially for providing supressive fire and close quarters combat.
Also, any reports on the M240 or 249? I've heard they've had problems in the past.
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au contraire, when it was full auto troops tended to just spray and pray a full mag without hitting the target
with single shot and burst they are forced to aim and do a better job as riflemen.
besides, the the m-16 shoots more RPM in burst mode than it did in full auto.
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more deadly in semiauto as Animal said.
the damned thing is accurate as hell.. very flat trajectory and you can't tell what the round will do once it hits..could twirl, change direction, etc
bad-ass weapon that I relied on in the CG.
full auto is such a waste..
can't aim, the barrel heats up, gotta reload instantly
besides, if the want to spray and pray they have the tripod mounted 'big guns'...50cal, etc
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it's pretty damn astounding what a full metal jacket .223 will do to 1/2" steel. :D
as Wlfgng said...accurate.
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BiGB<< very big fan of the 223 round...
just bougth another 1,000 rounds FMJs for $120...
just got a Leupold 4.5-20 -50mm scope..Only regret is it doesnt have the Target knobs on it..i have to use a penny or a shellcasing to adjust..but.....the trajectory is so flat..hell at 100 yds or 300 ysd..its almost the same!!
Salute
BiGB
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Never fired an M16/AR15 but the HK MP5s I have shot go through a full magazine very very quickly on full auto, I can see how it would be a waste.
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The M16A1 was a piece of crap. On full auto, you aint hitting **** after about 2-3 rounds. The M16A2 is an awesome weapon. Just a few months ago I fired 6 full 30 round magazines on burst as fast as I could load and pull the trigger without 1 stoppage. It's accurate as **** too, you can easily pick off man-sized targets out beyond 300 meters.
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you are should shoot AKM superiorest russian gun
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I guess, no news is good news.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
T It's accurate as **** too, you can easily pick off man-sized targets out beyond 300 meters.
LOL you should be a sniper !!
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hitting soup cans with a 308 at 300yds is not that hard....
Hitting an egg or a quarter at 300yds...now thats tuff..thats sniper tactics..
ie( brain stem is about same with and shape as an egg) you hit this...its ded
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Really?
Well Im a competitive shooter and this is the best I can do.
(http://home.attbi.com/~c.hambleton/wsb/media/134502/site1021.jpg)
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And that was only at 100 yds.
To qualify for Bravo-4 you have to be able to keep groups like this
at 500metters plus.
Least you did when i was in.
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Heres my groups at 200yds
(http://home.attbi.com/~c.hambleton/wsb/media/134502/site1022.jpg)
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The current M-4 is a full auto, burst, or semi auto weapon. While I refuse to waste the tax stamp money on a full auto M-16, I can hit a gnats bellybutton easily at 300 meters with my AR-15 with PVS-14 scope fitted... day or night.
Grunherz, I have an MP5K, and that I do pay the tax stamp on. Firing it on full auto is just a waste, thats why 3 rounds is quite simply the best way to go. By the way, what did ya think of it?
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RC51 are those groupings done standing, kneeling , sitting supported, or prone supported? Just wondering, beause stading and trying to fire accurate is pretty damn hard.
-BM
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standing and firing is silly!
Why?
Well If hunting game will see you.
If sniping enemy will see you.
prone is best position.
I was benchrest for those shots.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Never fired an M16/AR15 but the HK MP5s I have shot go through a full magazine very very quickly on full auto, I can see how it would be a waste.
You have an MP5 in California?
I thought gun laws are very strict there.
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(http://www3.telus.net/public/gcorn1/Mar26%2304.JPG)
20,000 rounds and still going strong. I've shot this rifle for 4 years in service rifle out to 500 meters, when I've got my ACOG mounted on the flat top, hitting a figure 11 military target at max range is a 99% deal when prone. From a 14.5 inch barrel, that is saying quite a bit.
I pity the poor Brits with their SA-80's. LOL! It barely works in the tropics, can't imagine how they are keeping em running in the dessert. My best pal is in 2 Para, and he's resorted to breaking his issue rifle down and using captured Russian stuff before in both Africa and Macedonia. Ridiculous.
My Accuracy International .308 shoots 1/8 MOA, which is about an inch at 800 meters and twice as good as I'm capable of firing it(the longest range our local comps go to for .308). I'll find some targets and post em up, but with my .223 rifle, what Rc51 has posted is about what any competent shooter can get themselves to with pratice, and is about how I shoot myself. Big B, the brainstem shot is called the "CNS" shot, or central nervous system. It's an area that comprises the brain stem, the sweet spot is where the spinal colum interfaces with the brain. Head on it is right between the target's mouth and nose. It's only about an inch target zone, so with a rifle and shooter capable of 1/4 MOA (most "elite" snipers are around there, average swatter is about 1/2 MOA), the furthest this shot is generally attempted is about 100 yards in a law enforcement situation, and 400 in the field.
That said, the guys at prarie gun works here in Canada have a .338 lapua rifle that our Forces have been testing ( a good pal runs http://www.canadiantactical.ca check it out for pics/etc), and they regularly get and train to fire at the head out to 800 meters. Yikes.
(http://www.canadiantactical.ca/Images/McMillan50.jpg)
The above is one of the .50 cal rifles the Canadian Sniper units use, a rifle just like this one (cough this one) is likely the world record holder for a kill on the battlefield, at least that's the rumour. Nearly 2700 meter headshot on a driver of a truck with a mounted 30mm gun that was firing on US forces in Afghanistan.
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Don't ya just love guns.
(http://home.attbi.com/~c.hambleton/wsb/media/134502/site1017.jpg)
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Originally posted by Gman
The above is one of the .50 cal rifles the Canadian Sniper units use, a rifle just like this one (cough this one) is likely the world record holder for a kill on the battlefield, at least that's the rumour. Nearly 2700 meter headshot on a driver of a truck with a mounted 30mm gun that was firing on US forces in Afghanistan.
I remember that incident. I was literally cheering on my chair :)
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Originally posted by rc51
LOL you should be a sniper !!
Retard....
I didn't say *I* could easily hit targets out beyond 300m. Half the folks in the Army have never touched a weapon before they join. We are lucky to get them to hit a 300m target, let alone further. I've never really tried, and don't really give a ****. We usually don't have bench rests or optical sights handy, so sorry to disappoint you. Not everyone can be a l33t sN!p3R.
I've hit running deer in the head past 500m with a .22-250, don't know what the big deal is. Given the right optics and support anyone can make good shots. Nothing to brag about really.
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MP5 is pretty good and lots of fun and easy to control, but I had more fun shooting Tommy guns - I think it was because of its gangster image. :D
No way in the PRC Animal it was in Nevada. :D
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BGBMAW: just bougth another 1,000 rounds FMJs for $120...
Where?
miko
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cheaper than dirt and ... the ammo man both have bulk ammo for reasonable prices.
lazs
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
Retard....
I didn't say *I* could easily hit targets out beyond 300m. Half the folks in the Army have never touched a weapon before they join. We are lucky to get them to hit a 300m target, let alone further. I've never really tried, and don't really give a ****. We usually don't have bench rests or optical sights handy, so sorry to disappoint you. Not everyone can be a l33t sN!p3R.
I've hit running deer in the head past 500m with a .22-250, don't know what the big deal is. Given the right optics and support anyone can make good shots. Nothing to brag about really.
I was paying you a compliment.
Now who's the "retard"
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
Retard....
Given the right optics and support anyone can make good shots. Nothing to brag about really.
Yeah is so easy that with all the people the army has to pool from they only pick 200 a year for sniper school.
Dude get a grip precision shooting is no accident it take years of traning.
Unless you'r a natural like you'rself.
Let us know how you do it .
LOL a headsot on a running deer at 500 yds LOL.
Son you need a laxitive cause you'r full of crap.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
Retard....
I've hit running deer in the head past 500m with a .22-250, don't know what the big deal is. Given the right optics and support anyone can make good shots. Nothing to brag about really.
LOL!!!!!!!!
I hit a fly on a cows arse at 500yds once.
and the cow did not even flinch.
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I'm sure I couldn't do it regularly. The first time I hit it was at about 300m. .22-250 to the body usually isn't going to bring a deer down. Second shot it was running away from me, aimed long, hit it in the back of the head. Supported shot, 9x scope. No biggie. When you grow up around weapons, shooting is no big deal. With proper training and practice just about anyone can shoot well. OTOH a few folks never get it no matter how much you try to train them. For the most part, shooting from a bench with optical sights is hardly a challenge.
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lazs2: cheaper than dirt and ... the ammo man both have bulk ammo for reasonable prices.
Right, thanks.
I was just curious if someone found ammo other that russian (which my rifle loves so far, though the grouping may be better) at below 13 cents per round.
miko
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
I've hit running deer in the head past 500m with a .22-250, don't know what the big deal is. Given the right optics and support anyone can make good shots. Nothing to brag about really. [/B]
Nope! I don't believe you, sorry, I've been shooting comp. for over 20 years and 500 m on a running dear in the head, sorry to call you a story teller but you are.
Most people with good optics, hand loads and ON A BENCH REST, shooting w no wind will hit a paper plate at 500m about 50% of the time. Fact been there to many times with folks like you that think its easy, untill I walk them down to the 1000 yard range and set up a target "way the hell down there" then it's put up or shut up time. Most try but are very disapointed when they fire 5 rounds and get 1 hit on a 9" plate.
If you can shoot like that I will give you all my tropheys as you should have them.
I have a custom .308 Tactical rifle that I will lone you, It shoots about .75" groups at 200 yrds with my hand loads on a rest. I will set up a wire target at 500 m moving left to right. we shall see
I will give you 2 shots sound fair?
Oh BTW I dont think you had the bench whan hunting so you cant use that ok?
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Flinging lead onto people is so last century:
http://www.defensereview.com/352003/TIS1.pdf
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tekeda
What happens if I wear a very polished suit of armor?
Dont they aim lasers with mirrors?
hmmmm:D
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you make a very good target for conventional weapons....
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wlfgng
Did you see the word armor
I was just thinking if the future is light based weapons we may get very shiny BDU's
Of course thats if, as you stated no .223 AP anywhere.
I found it ironic that we may counter the future weapons with items from the past.
I read that a counter to space base lasers is fairly cheep. a very highly polished caseing for the weapons will reduce the range and power of the lasers, thus requiring much higher power to get the job done.;)
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Originally posted by Scootter
wlfgng
Did you see the word armor
I was just thinking if the future is light based weapons we may get very shiny BDU's
Of course thats if, as you stated no .223 AP anywhere.
I found it ironic that we may counter the future weapons with items from the past.
I read that a counter to space base lasers is fairly cheep. a very highly polished caseing for the weapons will reduce the range and power of the lasers, thus requiring much higher power to get the job done.;)
light and shiny armors dont stand very well against electromagnetic railguns.
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Originally posted by Animal
light and shiny armors dont stand very well against electromagnetic railguns.
This Sir is very True!!
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1.9 kW - energy of 19 100-watt bulbs impaired over 0.35 of a second over the area of 1.3mm in diameter or greater. Or a burst of those.
How does it compare with an energy of a 55 grain bullet travelling at 2700 fps? Anyone cares to convert units and calculate.
I believe some simple protection will be quickly introduced to make that weapon totally ineffective except as narrow-use sniper/assasin weapon.
You need a layer of closing that is resistant to heat and/or condiucts hear well to spread it over the wider area. In this case you just get a slight burn as if under a very powerfull light.
If you make a layer of clothes from some porous material like closed-cell neoperne or poluethylene with bubbles and fill it with liquid - especially under some pressure, the laser will penetrate it, vaporise the liquid locally and the steam will dissipate the laser beam before it reaches further.
It may be usefull shooting some naked savages but not a half-descent military.
Nothing beats throwing a hard pointy thingy at one's body.
miko
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Originally posted by Scootter
Nope! I don't believe you, sorry, I've been shooting comp. for over 20 years and 500 m on a running dear in the head, sorry to call you a story teller but you are.
id bet that he not trying to brag but when he shooting at deer in mountains he misjudging range he shootin at. anyone involved with sniper training agree one of skills necessary for job is range estimation. i know i was way way way off on that when first tried it.
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the ammo i buy is usally from gubn shows..but the one guy.i always see and usally buy from name is "Ammo Dump"..im in Northern California.
Bad thing its the "wolf" ammo..Russain stuff..never had a problem with any of it..Just like buying American..but...it costs more..Thast why i love soem of the "free market stuff"
But the 9mm i buy are locally reloaded so its usally around the $100 mark..
But a 1, 000 of 223 fmj for $120..dam good for me...shoot all day- my friends love it..cause they get to balst away..especially the guys who never/ or rarley shoot...The grins on there face are great...
Anyone know a good place to order steel siloutte or steel reactive targets?
Salute
BiGB
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BGBMAW
Get some 1/4 mild steel and rent a cutting torch for the week end
cut some pointy legs on the targets and you dont even need to weld a base on them
trace the shapes in the steel with a soap stone and have at it
I have made a bunch of them (sure some get beat up)
dont shoot them to close as they can shoot back if ya get my drift
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yep..thts what im thinkn..friend s got a cutting torch...
Should i wear goggles?..lolol
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Originally posted by davidpt40
Also, any reports on the M240 or 249? I've heard they've had problems in the past.
marines out of pendleton were using 240 golf just before they left and the guys i talked to said it too heavy. SAW very good weapon. agile enough weapon that guys have no problem with SAW in MOUT training. all around good gun. the way things are going with arming squads if it dont have a grenade launcher on it its belt fed.
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The following comments were lifted from a Muslim extremist site. The person who wrote this appears to think of himself as a Mujahideen... - probably a teenager.
Abu Qudama
punish the enemy with me
Brother
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: inside enemy territory
Posts: 321
As'salamu alaykum,
A 7.62 x 39mm from an Ak will do better than a 5.56mm from an M16 when it strikes a forhead. dont matter what it looks like. besides, the 3.3kg Ak, in my opinion is a much better weapon then the flimsy 2.8kg M16.
1) The gas chamber on an M16 is hardly noticable, let alone able to be cleaned, which causes the gun to be thrown in the bin after extended usage, whereas the Ak-47 or later model AKM has a nice 6 inch long and 1 inch wide chamber at the front, ( the metal-wood section between the range and the barrel) which every rifle must be cleaned after shooting the enemy to mantain peak performance.
2) the length of the Klashnikov Ak, extended version is 869mm (699mm with folded buttstock) where the Rambo M16 is 992mm.
3) Thick stamped steelmetal, chrome barrel, laminated wood, and aliminium magazines form the accurate at 300m AKM, unlike the fibreglass, steel M16.
4) the Ak can function normally after total immersion in mud and water, The fully chromed barrel ensures effective operation even at very low temperatures. The muzzle of the weapon fits into the swiveling firing points of the BMP. Thus, the mujahideen can fire the weapon while the vechicle is moving. but the M16 looks good.
BUT TAKE IT BACK TO THE SWORDS AND HORSES I SAY SO WE CAN SEE THIER HEADS DROP INFRONT OF OUR FEET!!!!!!!!
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Gunthr,
If he keeps it up he'll most likely find out more about an M16a2 than he'd ever wish to know.
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AK-47, especially early soviet ones, are very good battlefield weapon. very tough. not as accurate at range as M16, and 47 is heavier but still very good weapon.