Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on April 01, 2003, 06:39:56 PM
-
Oh Yah!!
She's safe!!
details just now commin over the wire...
-
That's GREAT news!!! :) :) :)
but what about the guys that were with her? :confused:
-
Bad bellybutton !!!
hope they saved um all.
-
i'm pretty sure they were pulled outta a shallow grave day before yesterday.....
in pieces..
:(
-
Yup, she's from my home state. About an hours drive away, and she and her family has been on the news constantly.
I wonder if they got the others out too?
-
Thats the best news Ive heard in a long, long time.
:D :D :D :D
I figured she was gone forever. There are still several "duty status unknowns" from the same ambush, one small step.
So happy :cool:
-
WOOHOOO!!!!
gonna try to find more details
-
Who rescued her?
-
seals and rangers
-
special forces and marines...btw when they got her she had suffered multiple gunshot wounds and they say she was in a condition that would make it hard for them to move her..
but she's in stable condition..
-
WTFG big
to the Special Forces and thier rescue of one of ours. Hopefully she isn't the first !
Damn that's just awesome.
-
You've gotta love that action.:)
-
Great News...! :D
Hope those Army Rangers and Navy Seals weren't TOO hard on her captors.
Regards, Shuckins
-
So who's writing the screenplay and when does filming start?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
WTG!
Unfortunately, the scum probably executed her teammates before they could all
be rescued. This rescue and the efforts to win over
the civilian populace should help the troops morale quite a bit.
mauser
-
when the whole story comes out i dont know if i really wanna hear it. There are gonna be some real ugly stories coming out of this.
-
Originally posted by Dnil
when the whole story comes out i dont know if i really wanna hear it. There are gonna be some real ugly stories coming out of this.
I want to hear it and I want everyone in the U.S. to hear it as well. That should help get it accross that we are not dealing with a "civilized" regime here. These are NOT nice people and those who are having massive sympathy attacks for them should be acquainted with some facts of life.
-
just updated:
Other bodies were found in the hospital where she was rescued.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
just updated:
Other bodies were found in the hospital where she was rescued.
Got a link on any of this? Or are you getting the updates on TV/Radio?
-
Way to go Seals and Rangers! "We don't leave our heros behind".
Unfortunately... They found some bodies (undisclosed amount) burried in shallow graves outside of the hospital. That means it wasn't a situation where her "teamates were executed before they could be rescued". Also, the fact that she was in a hospital being cared for means something too.
Let's not make this out to be any worse than it was until the facts come in. I believe the war is necessary, but I am growing increasingly tired of the speculation and propoganda from both sides of the fence.
MiniD
-
yeah wait with the dissections until we hear more. With the current facts you could also come to this conclusion:
The US team captured may have decided to put up a fight with small arms rather than simply surrender, hence the multiple gun shot wounds. Those that were buried may simply have been fatally wounded in the possible firefight.
Or.....
The US team surrendered without a fight and the Iraqi's decided to have some target practice back at the interrogation center and figured it might be a good idea to keep the woman alive.....for later.
Either way it's pure speculation and probably so far from the truth it aint even funny. Lets just be glad an MIA soldier has been recovered and worry about the details later.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
Praise God.
Needed some good news.
-
Yeah, this is awesome news.
I hope she will be ok.
-
she is from my state of birth...and i hope those bastards didnt defile her!
-
Originally posted by N1kPaz
she is from my state of birth...and i hope those bastards didnt defile her!
I hope they didnt 'defile' the males either!
-
good point man... i do to.
:(
-
Went through SERE school in '96, you dont wanna here her stories.
-
she has two broken legs and a broken arm.......
-
WTFG Seals and Rangers. And lets not forget the CIA operatives who led them in.
When they say Seals they are talking about SEAL team 6 right? Those are the guys doing stuff like this...correct?
-
Great news!
This "Leaving no one behind" thingie the US does always touched me. (I can't find the english words for it... too early in the morning still.)
Wtg SF's!
-
WTG!
The bodies in the hospital were Iraqis, apparently (not killed in rescue attempt, but in previous fighting).
-
Originally posted by UserName
Got a link on any of this? Or are you getting the updates on TV/Radio?
Sorry,
TV update, haven't seen any links yet. They just said they found bodies. No indication of nationality or how they died. They IMPLIED US bodies, but didn't even come out and say that.
-
Lets not confuse the Iraqis with the Afghanis. Iraq is a very civilized nation. I seriously doubt any American POWs were executed or used for target practice. It was probably a very quick ambush from close range, the Iraqis had time to aim well whilest the Americans never knew what hit them. They most likely grabbed the girl and a few others and hauled them back to base after the short gun battle was over.
Its easy to speculate, but realistically, the Iraqis know they cant win, so I dont imagine they will be wanting to commit lots of war crimes. They have cared for POWs so far, and I imagine they will continue to do so.
But I am very very glad this girl was rescued. I don't believe combat is anyplace for a teenage girl.
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
Lets not confuse the Iraqis with the Afghanis. Iraq is a very civilized nation. I seriously doubt any American POWs were executed or used for target practice. It was probably a very quick ambush from close range, the Iraqis had time to aim well whilest the Americans never knew what hit them. They most likely grabbed the girl and a few others and hauled them back to base after the short gun battle was over.
Its easy to speculate, but realistically, the Iraqis know they cant win, so I dont imagine they will be wanting to commit lots of war crimes. They have cared for POWs so far, and I imagine they will continue to do so.
But I am very very glad this girl was rescued. I don't believe combat is anyplace for a teenage girl.
No disrespect intended, but what rock have you been living under?
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
Iraq is a very civilized nation.
Yeah...compared to the mongols of Djingis Kahn perhaps.
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
Lets not confuse the Iraqis with the Afghanis. Iraq is a very civilized nation. I seriously doubt any American POWs were executed or used for target practice. It was probably a very quick ambush from close range, the Iraqis had time to aim well whilest the Americans never knew what hit them. They most likely grabbed the girl and a few others and hauled them back to base after the short gun battle was over.
Its easy to speculate, but realistically, the Iraqis know they cant win, so I dont imagine they will be wanting to commit lots of war crimes. They have cared for POWs so far, and I imagine they will continue to do so.
But I am very very glad this girl was rescued. I don't believe combat is anyplace for a teenage girl.
The iraqis in general were or even still are a civilized people to a lage extent no doubt. However 40 years of baathism and saddam hussein has made many of them very barbaric and uncivilized. They are probabbly civilized the same way nazi germany was civilized, yes i think thats a pretty good comparison - the people are civilized but the govt has brought out and beat in the demons of these peple.
-
I believe Iraq to be much more civilized than other middle-eastern countries. Not sure if I made that very clear in my post. I would much rather be a POW in Iraq rather than Iran or Afghanistan.
I'm not defending Iraq in anyway. But compared to the nations which are overflowing with muslim fundamentalist/extremest (now these are the real whackos, executing men, women, and children left and right), Iraq is practically a peace loving nation.
I also believe that most Iraqis are educated enough to not believe the garbage about dying and going to heaven with 40 virgins. Well they might go to heaven with 40 virgins (their comrades) if they try to engage U.S. forces.
-
You just dont get it do you? Iraq is not the problem, saddam hussein is the problem. He is very uncivilzed, hell he and his sons put people feet first through giant shereddingf machines. And BTW Iran is just as civilized as iraq, actually probably more.
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
I believe Iraq to be much more civilized than other middle-eastern countries. Not sure if I made that very clear in my post. I would much rather be a POW in Iraq rather than Iran or Afghanistan.
I'm not defending Iraq in anyway. But compared to the nations which are overflowing with muslim fundamentalist/extremest (now these are the real whackos, executing men, women, and children left and right), Iraq is practically a peace loving nation.
I also believe that most Iraqis are educated enough to not believe the garbage about dying and going to heaven with 40 virgins. Well they might go to heaven with 40 virgins (their comrades) if they try to engage U.S. forces.
Your a ****ing moron.
The average Iraqi is a decent sort I'm sure. Saddams cronies are not. Who the **** do you think was holding this girl and those prisoners? Mr and Ms common Iraqi? Buy a clue dumb ass.
Those soldiers that went in and got that young trooper out.
There are 11 bodies out there... and that has me whoopee pissed.
-
great news to us
a blessing to her family and friends
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
Lets not confuse the Iraqis with the Afghanis. Iraq is a very civilized nation. I seriously doubt any American POWs were executed or used for target practice. It was probably a very quick ambush from close range, the Iraqis had time to aim well whilest the Americans never knew what hit them. They most likely grabbed the girl and a few others and hauled them back to base after the short gun battle was over.
Its easy to speculate, but realistically, the Iraqis know they cant win, so I dont imagine they will be wanting to commit lots of war crimes. They have cared for POWs so far, and I imagine they will continue to do so.
But I am very very glad this girl was rescued. I don't believe combat is anyplace for a teenage girl.
Once again handsomehunk..read my first reply to you. About her being a "teenage" girl. She's a whoopee soldier. How old do you think most of those youngmen are that are fighting near Bagdad? whoopee you are a clueless ****nut.
-
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
-
Originally posted by blur
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
Your a classic example of a ****nut as well Blur. Real nice.
-
Batdog you are very belligerent and ignorant. Go through boot camp and some additional training and you think that makes a 5'4 teenage girl who joined up for college tuition a soldier? Oh yeah, she is probably a hard-core killing machine.
I really dont see what you are getting so angry and upset over? Do you think the Iraqi army is a totally different population than the civilians? Where do you think the army gets its soldiers? But I guess for an uneducated person like yourself, your reasoning is as good as could be hoped for.
I'm not understanding the conflict here. Iraq is much more modern in terms of technology and goverment than its neighbors. Does Iraq have a king and queen? Does Iraq require that women wear cloths over their faces? Is muslim fundamentalism the primary religion?
Lets take a look at the word CIVILIZED: To raise from barbarism to an enlightened stage of development; bring out of a primitive or savage state.
For every execution in Iraq I gurantee there were at least 5 in Iran or Afghanistan.
I forget, what is the only country in the U.N. to execute prisoners/political enemies? Oh thats right, the UNITED STATES.
-
Originally posted by blur
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
You are a real class act.
-Smut
-
I agree, NOT. I'm with batdog on this. The people might be civilized but Saddam and his tools are not. How the **** do you think she got 2 broken legs and a broken arm. She's a supply clerk who can defend herself when needed. Do you or have you ever served your country? If not the STFU, My wife joined up to serve her country after escaping the Latvian (and russian communist) way of life. She's got more balls than you, is she a killing machine,in a word No. Can she and will she defend herself, her country and her fellow soldiers, Yes. Can she kick your *** well, you probably couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag with sissors. IRAQ's republican guards do not represent the general populus of IRAQ as they are "regulars" and do it to fight for saddam.
Originally posted by davidpt40
Batdog you are very belligerent and ignorant. Go through boot camp and some additional training and you think that makes a 5'4 teenage girl who joined up for college tuition a soldier? Oh yeah, she is probably a hard-core killing machine.
I really dont see what you are getting so angry and upset over? Do you think the Iraqi army is a totally different population than the civilians? Where do you think the army gets its soldiers? But I guess for an uneducated person like yourself, your reasoning is as good as could be hoped for.
I'm not understanding the conflict here. Iraq is much more modern in terms of technology and goverment than its neighbors. Does Iraq have a king and queen? Does Iraq require that women wear cloths over their faces? Is muslim fundamentalism the primary religion?
Lets take a look at the word CIVILIZED: To raise from barbarism to an enlightened stage of development; bring out of a primitive or savage state.
For every execution in Iraq I gurantee there were at least 5 in Iran or Afghanistan.
I forget, what is the only country in the U.N. to execute prisoners/political enemies? Oh thats right, the UNITED STATES.
-
Originally posted by blur
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
Hmmm, Worcester.....wanna meet for lunch and discuss your sense of humor?
-
Originally posted by blur
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
Skuzzy?
I find this particularly offensive.
-
11 Bodies Found With Rescued U.S. POW
==From Yahoo News ==== 29 minutes ago====
By DOUG MELLGREN, Associated Press Writer
NASIRIYAH, Iraq - Eleven bodies — some of them believed to be Americans — were found with prisoner of war Pfc. Jessica Lynch when she was rescued in a U.S. commando raid on an Iraqi hospital, a military spokesman said Wednesday.
Lynch, a 19-year-old Army supply clerk, was captured by the Iraqis more than a week ago after her maintenance unit made a wrong turn and was ambushed in Nasiriyah. Twelve other members of her unit were also feared captured; five of them are officially listed as POWs.
Acting on an intelligence tip about Lynch's whereabouts, U.S. special operations forces slipped behind enemy lines and seized Lynch from the Saddam Hospital under cover of darkness Tuesday, military officials said.
The U.S. forces engaged in a firefight on the way into and out of the building, but there were no coalition casualties, said Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, a U.S. Central Command spokesman. He said ammunition, mortars, maps and a terrain model were found at the hospital, along with "other things that made it very clear it was being used as a military command post."
During the rescue operation, 11 bodies were recovered in and around the hospital. The cause of death was not immediately disclosed.
"We have reason to believe some of them were Americans," said Navy Capt. Frank Thorp, another U.S. Central Command spokesman.
He said the military has not confirmed whether they were members of Lynch's unit, the 507th Maintenance Company. "We don't yet know the identity of those people," Thorp said. "And forensics will determine that."
Two of the bodies were in a morgue in the hospital, while the nine others were in a grave area in the community, Brooks said. He said U.S. forces were led to the gravesite by someone who had been taken into custody.
Lynch was being treated for her injuries at an American military facility Wednesday. The nature of her injuries was not disclosed, and Brooks would not comment on her condition. But in a green-tinted, night-vision video taken of the rescue operation and shown to reporters Wednesday, she was put aboard a Black Hawk helicopter on a stretcher.
Until Tuesday, Lynch had been listed as missing in action, and her family did not know whether she was dead or alive.
"You would not believe the joys, cries, bawling, hugging, screaming, carrying on," Lynch's cousin Pam Nicolais said after the rescue. "You just have to be here."
The rescue operation included Air Force pilots, Marines, Navy SEALS, Army Rangers — "loyal to the creed they know that they never leave a fallen comrade," Brooks said.
Thorp would not confirm reports that troops used a battlefield diversion to slip into the hospital.
The 507th was attacked March 23 during some of the earliest fighting in Nasiriyah, where Fedayeen loyalists and other hardcore Iraqi fighters are said to have dressed as civilians and ambushed Americans.
Not long after the ambush, five of Lynch's comrades showed up in a video shown on Iraqi television being asked questions by their captors.
The video also showed bodies, apparently of U.S. soldiers, leading Pentagon officials to accuse Iraq of executing some of its POWs. Officials believe the video was made in the Nasiriyah area.
Lynch, an aspiring teacher from Palestine, W.Va., joined the Army to get an education, her family said. She left a farming community with an unemployment rate of 15 percent, one of the highest levels in West Virginia.
She was following in the footsteps of her older brother Gregory, a National Guardsman based at Fort Bragg, N.C. Jessica Lynch enlisted through the Army's delayed-entry program before graduating from high school.
Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., called the rescue a miracle.
"God watched over Jessica and her family," Rockefeller said through a spokesman in Washington. "All of West Virginia is rejoicing. This is an amazing tribute to the skill and courage of our military."
Early Wednesday, Marines seized the hospital under light sniper fire, after U.S. forces delivered a baby Iraqi girl they named "America."
As soon as the Marines rolled into the hospital compound, civilian patients and medical staff began emerging with their hands up. Most were allowed to leave, or to return into the building for treatment.
Inside the hospital, the Marines found a small number of weapons, as well as a terrain map of the region.
"We hope your city will return to normal, and that you will no longer live in fear," Brig. Gen. Rick Natonski, commander of the Marine's Task Force Tarawa, told doctors gathered outside the large and relatively modern desert town hospital, where many of the windows were blown out after days of bombing and artillery strikes nearby. "We want to return Iraq to Iraqis."
Earlier Wednesday, U.S. forces spotted a 20-year-old Iraqi woman in labor in a pickup truck. The woman's family had been displaced from another city and was living in tents in Nasiriyah.
"I got the ambulance and sent her to the battalion aid station and delivered a healthy baby girl and named her America. It was a pretty cool way to start the day," said Navy Hospitalman First Class Kyle Morris, 39, of San Clemente, Calif.
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
Batdog you are very belligerent and ignorant. Go through boot camp and some additional training and you think that makes a 5'4 teenage girl who joined up for college tuition a soldier? Oh yeah, she is probably a hard-core killing machine.
I really dont see what you are getting so angry and upset over? Do you think the Iraqi army is a totally different population than the civilians? Where do you think the army gets its soldiers? But I guess for an uneducated person like yourself, your reasoning is as good as could be hoped for.
I'm not understanding the conflict here. Iraq is much more modern in terms of technology and goverment than its neighbors. Does Iraq have a king and queen? Does Iraq require that women wear cloths over their faces? Is muslim fundamentalism the primary religion?
Lets take a look at the word CIVILIZED: To raise from barbarism to an enlightened stage of development; bring out of a primitive or savage state.
For every execution in Iraq I gurantee there were at least 5 in Iran or Afghanistan.
I forget, what is the only country in the U.N. to execute prisoners/political enemies? Oh thats right, the UNITED STATES.
YOU have NO clue what your talking about. Boot camp is the base training for all soldiers. Its what breaks them then remakes them into an indiv capable of being a soldier. Being a soldier isnt always about hardcore combat..its about duty and performing that duty under adverse situtations. Go eat a can of STFU handsomehunk cause you have NO clue as to what your spouting off.
The comment, tirade about you being ****ing clueless about Iraq was that your coming across like the Irag's wouldnt do this.. ie execute soldiers/pows as they are so civilized. Didnt I say most Iraqi's are prob fine? Oh yea..I did didnt I. Its Saddams salamanders that would do this but you seem to have blinders on.
Get a clue.
-
Originally posted by blur
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
Go to hell! If you hate this country so much why dont you pack up and leave, you unrgreatful looser.
-
WTG great work saving her
I hope they get more free
damn those iraqy bastards let em rot in hell
-
I agree with Batdog... Davidpt40 is one ****ing moron!
And Blur also... That remark was uncalled for hugahunk!
-
If she runs a roadblock in a combat area I hope they shoot her too. Other than that... Why would they?
Obviously blur thinks ... she would be better off in the tender care of the armyu of sadman's regime.
I think blur should show us what he is made of and go fight for the benevolent peoples army of sadman against the U.S. invaders. Failing that... he is welcome to come to Dixon and teach me a lesson personaly. Heck... he can even bring a couple of kennedys for backup.
I also feel that no way should that girl have been anywhere near a combat zone tho... One only has to look at the reaction of both the capture and the rescue to see why.. In both our troops and our people. Thank gawd we haven't reached the level where we have so little respect for the mothers of our country that we would force them to run roadblocks to die at the hands of enemy soldiers.
lazs
-
davidpt40,
I have to join those who encourage you to getg a clue. I am afraid that you'd probably not even be bright enough to even buy one. If you need a reminder about the types of people in the iraqi govt. you can look recently to the briefing where an iraqi general indicated that suicide bombing will be a policy for them.
If you need something earlier to see the trend you can look up the stories told by the Gulf War POW's who were beaten and threatened with death by having pistols put to their head and the trigger pulled byt these same "civilized" iraqi's. :rolleyes:
As far as blur is concerned. You have been over the top on quite a few of your posts. Your hatred of this country disgusts me. Perhaps you would like some other place better to live. Your blatant hate posts have no redeeming features to them except to illustrate what a small miinded hate monger you are.
Skuzzy, please know that I am more than offended by blur and his trash. Please check to see if we can get along without his posts. :mad:
-
Why can't you see Blur post as a joke ?
Perhaps not a good taste joke but a joke nothing more ...
-
Its not a joke, we know him too well and history of blantat hatred of this country.
-
I don't know him so I assumed he was pretty ironic.
-
Well now you do. :)
-
He hasn't accepted my lunch offer yet.
-
LOL :D
BTW Martlet go read my response in the bosnian serb thread, need yo to reply to a question ASAP.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
When they say Seals they are talking about SEAL team 6 right? Those are the guys doing stuff like this...correct?
no necessarily dude. all USASF and SEAL elements as well as some special Marine units are trained for this type of stuff. ST-6 dont exist anymore, at least under that name but ST-6 and 1SFOD specialized in hostage rescue ops. they trained almost constant for those kind of ops instead of various type ops that normal special operations element trains for prior to deployment.
-
Blur that comment was so fubared I can hardly belive it.
I agree with lazs on this one... look at the reaction of the soldiers and country...how would they be affected on the battlefield when side-by-side with her?
why is she the only one alive so far?... sacrafice on the part of the rest of her squad?
one can only guess at this point.
-
Maverick: If you need something earlier to see the trend you can look up the stories told by the Gulf War POW's who were beaten and threatened with death by having pistols put to their head and the trigger pulled byt these same "civilized" iraqi's. :rolleyes:
That's called psychological pressure - making prisoners believe they are threatened when in reality they are not.
In order to work properly threats must be combined with severe sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, acute physical discomphort (being tied in ackward positions for hours, confined to narrow spaces, etc.), humiliation and other kinds of treatment that destroy person's mind.
miko
-
Originally posted by blur
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
What a waste of sperm!
:mad:
-
Originally posted by miko2d
That's called psychological pressure - making prisoners believe they are threatened when in reality they are not.
In order to work properly threats must be combined with severe sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, acute physical discomphort (being tied in ackward positions for hours, confined to narrow spaces, etc.), humiliation and other kinds of treatment that destroy person's mind.
miko
Would you consider sexual assult to be "non-threatening" or acceptable treatment of POW's?
The two female POW's from the 91 war had a very rough time.
-Smut
-
(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/04/02/sprj.irq.lynch.rescue/story.jessica.lynch.jpg)
Nightmare is over.
And another big fat
-
Wonderful pic Hortlund, relief and joy to seeing her alive!
Great job by the SF, SEALs and all!
mauser
-
damn smut if that not your daughter sister wife or girlfriend in that little picture ill pay good money for a phone #.
-
Originally posted by anonymous
damn smut if that not your daughter sister wife or girlfriend in that little picture ill pay good money for a phone #.
Hehe...I wish. But you can see her on TV (UPN) every week on "Enterprise"...
-Smut
-
an American POW was rescued. Damn anyone who has anything bad to say about that. Toad don't sweat it, you know what is right.
-
Your hatred of this country disgusts me.
Wasn't going to reply till I saw this. I definately DO NOT hate the U.S. In fact, about the only thing I hate are the folks trying to bring us down.
I would hate a country that asked me not to examine anything. In fact, the U.S. was founded for objective individuals like myself.
But as a studying biologist, I've learned to be a critical thinker and place a little bit more value on human life than others. So yeah, when U.S. troops are needlessly killed (not saying that they are in this war), or big mistakes are made, I do like to see why things have gone awry.
So if you guys want to believe Iraq is just one step above a Neandertal village, go ahead and think that.
I'm not a war protestor, and I am for this war.
But Iraq IS the most civilized middle-eastern country. Nobody is offering any evidence to the contrary. Why is that such an inflammatory remark? South Vietnam was a democracy and it was one of the most corrupt and infiltrated goverments in history.
Now I'm going to make an educated guess here: Batdog, Dingbat, AWmac, and Maverick- You guys live in mobile homes, (excuse me- "premanufactured homes" is the term you fellas like) dont you?
-
Originally posted by miko2d
Maverick: If you need something earlier to see the trend you can look up the stories told by the Gulf War POW's who were beaten and threatened with death by having pistols put to their head and the trigger pulled byt these same "civilized" iraqi's. :rolleyes:
That's called psychological pressure - making prisoners believe they are threatened when in reality they are not.
In order to work properly threats must be combined with severe sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, acute physical discomphort (being tied in ackward positions for hours, confined to narrow spaces, etc.), humiliation and other kinds of treatment that destroy person's mind.
miko
Yeah I think it's the same thing that happened in Germany a while back. No one was REALLY hurt their either!:rolleyes:
-
uh.. I think it's 'Modular homes'...
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
Wasn't going to reply till I saw this. I definately DO NOT hate the U.S. In fact, about the only thing I hate are the folks trying to bring us down.
I would hate a country that asked me not to examine anything. In fact, the U.S. was founded for objective individuals like myself.
But as a studying biologist, I've learned to be a critical thinker and place a little bit more value on human life than others. So yeah, when U.S. troops are needlessly killed (not saying that they are in this war), or big mistakes are made, I do like to see why things have gone awry.
So if you guys want to believe Iraq is just one step above a Neandertal village, go ahead and think that.
I'm not a war protestor, and I am for this war.
But Iraq IS the most civilized middle-eastern country. Nobody is offering any evidence to the contrary. Why is that such an inflammatory remark? South Vietnam was a democracy and it was one of the most corrupt and infiltrated goverments in history.
Now I'm going to make an educated guess here: Batdog, Dingbat, AWmac, and Maverick- You guys live in mobile homes, (excuse me- "premanufactured homes" is the term you fellas like) dont you?
Hardly..but your bellybutton in stuck in an ivory tower no doubt salamander.
-
I think that picture Hortlund posted will be one of the defining shots of this war. Excellent.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
-snip-
I also feel that no way should that girl have been anywhere near a combat zone tho... One only has to look at the reaction of both the capture and the rescue to see why.. In both our troops and our people. -snip- lazs
Look at the other side of that coin Lazs. Would there be as great a morale boost if she had been a he? I think not.
Point is there are positives and negatives to her service. Overall though I think our Country came out ahead.
-
Now I'm going to make an educated guess here: Batdog, Dingbat, AWmac, and Maverick- You guys live in mobile homes, (excuse me- "premanufactured homes" is the term you fellas like) dont you?
Actually, I live in a modest size single family home with my wife, on 1/3 of an acre. Not doing to bad for the DC/Metro Area. How's your cardboard box doing? :D
But Iraq IS the most civilized middle-eastern country. Nobody is offering any evidence to the contrary. Why is that such an inflammatory remark? South Vietnam was a democracy and it was one of the most corrupt and infiltrated goverments in history.
Where is your evidence that they are civilized any more than say Jordan, or Iran, hell what about turkey? People are people, you run into tulips and you run into nice people. The people IMHO that are uncivilized it the IRAQI MILITARY REGIME. You are completely missing the point , Military regime, Saddam Hussien.
-
lasz2 has a point about the female pow. problem lies in fact that like it or not most guys are raised to protect the ladies. "when daddys gone you are the man of the house look after your mom for me" and such. its not any fault of the ladies but when the majority of the combat forces are men you cant ignore the psych angle. israelis had women in combat and they stopped doing it for most part not because women couldnt or wouldnt fight but because having shot up women at trauma facil was devastating morale of male component israeli armed forces from what ive heard. problem is emotional decision get people killed for no good reason in wartime and not many who could say honestly that they not get more emotional when pow is 19 year old girl probably getting raped as opposed to fellow ranger or pilot who is getting worked over but you know hes tough. maybe in 500 years like in scifi war stories where no cultural diff between men and women it work.
-
I just wanted to add to my previous post a link on other civil societies. Ball's in your court davve
Turks (http://www.turkishodyssey.com/turkey/culture/people.htm)
Jordan People (http://www.hejleh.com/countries/jordan.html)
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3584.htm (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3584.htm)
-
maybe in 500 years like in sci fi movies when there is no sexual difference it work....
it is not simply cultural... it is hardwired... instinctual. evolution MAY change it... then again ... it may not.
even MT seems to be acknowledging the differences... in any case... I am very glad that she was rescued and would very much like for it to not happen again.
lazs
-
Now I'm going to make an educated guess here: Batdog, Dingbat, AWmac, and Maverick- You guys live in mobile homes, (excuse me- "premanufactured homes" is the term you fellas like) dont you?
Not even close... 5 bedroom, 2 bath, inground pool and pond.
All with the VA Loan.
Bet your box leaks when it rains. :D
-
Originally posted by blur
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
Your mother drop you on the head or something as a kid?
-
Davidpt40 <--- (the 40 must be his IQ, )
Making himself look like a complete tool, I would swear he was a 14 year old, but he claims he is older.
Why do you all bother with him, put him on ignore where he belongs.
OH and WTFG U.S. troops for getting her back.
-
Originally posted by miko2d
Maverick: If you need something earlier to see the trend you can look up the stories told by the Gulf War POW's who were beaten and threatened with death by having pistols put to their head and the trigger pulled byt these same "civilized" iraqi's. :rolleyes:
That's called psychological pressure - making prisoners believe they are threatened when in reality they are not.
In order to work properly threats must be combined with severe sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, acute physical discomphort (being tied in ackward positions for hours, confined to narrow spaces, etc.), humiliation and other kinds of treatment that destroy person's mind.
miko
Miko,
You obviously need to research the geneva convention. I'm sure your training in the ussr didn't cover it. I'm sure because of the absolutely stupid post you made.
-
Originally posted by davidpt40
Wasn't going to reply till I saw this. I definately DO NOT hate the U.S. In fact, about the only thing I hate are the folks trying to bring us down.
I won't other with the rest of your post. I do want to direct you to reread the post you are referring to above. Read it for COMPREHENSION this time. Here is a clue for free dipstick. I was referring to blur. Now do you get it???? I doubt it. Your post confirmed the lack of ability to get a clue. :rolleyes:
If you want to know about my background read my profile. I posted it as I have nothing to worry about and no need to be an anonomous clueless twit like you. :rolleyes:
-
Maverick, I read your profile and it says you're a one eyed gay midget into vertical skull sex. Why, what a coincidence! I am too! Oh...wait a sec...sorry, my bad...that was my profile I was reading. Never mind.
-
Lucky you don't work for the media Davidpt40, or you would had just got fired...
Tronsky
-
Originally posted by blur
Good news.
I just hope that American troops don’t shoot her going through the checkpoint
Being right all the time can get boring. ;)
"But as the ambulance, with Private Lynch inside, approached a checkpoint American troops opened fire, forcing it to flee back to the hospital. The Americans had almost killed their prize catch. "
-BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/3028585.stm
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Hmmm ... no recollection? Perhaps she took the "fifth" on that? *lol*
I remember that the news said she fought until she ran out of ammo ... with a broken arm and leg, and dislocated ankle after a crash? I guess it is possible.
The whole thing sure reminds me of "Wag the Dog". No surprise though.
Well you are a ******* ******* too, so I dont think anyone is that surprised.
Hmmm, let's see...she was taken prisoner uninjured, and was retrieved with spinal injuries, multiple major bone breaks, and contusions...from a hospital...where she may have been under painkillers or sedation...in an operation involving lots of noise, lights, flash-bangs going off...yeah, her inability to provide total recall of the events is clearly an indication of her involvement in the conspiracy. Hell, she probably volunteered to be captured so she could be rescued. Part of the US Army's elite 151st Special Prisoner Volunteer Batallion.
Seriously, people who get into CAR ACCIDENTS can exhibit memory failures; they are unable to remember anything between "the car started to skid" and "waking up in the hospital."
As for that BBC article it is full of sh*t. The reporter is spinning lots of media guesses to make them up to be official US Army statements.
Examples:
They were said to have come under fire from inside and outside the building, but they made it to Lynch and whisked her away by helicopter.
Nope, the Central Command spokesman as specifically saying, on April 2, that there was no firefight inside the hosptal, but that there were scattered firefights outside the hospital.
"It was like a Hollywood film. They cried 'go, go, go', with guns and blanks without bullets, blanks and the sound of explosions. They made a show for the American attack on the hospital - action movies like Sylvester Stallone or Jackie Chan."
Anyone believe that the Spec ops guys went into Iraq, into a hostile environment loaded with blanks?
The Iraqi doctors (and the reporter) probably have a little bit to learn about what exactly composes a breeching round in a shotgun and a flash bang grenade.
Reports claimed that she had stab and bullet wounds and that she had been slapped about on her hospital bed and interrogated.
This is the official US Army version of her injuries:
Lynch was treated at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany for a head wound, a spinal injury, fractures to her right arm, both legs, and her right foot and ankle. Gunshots may have caused open fractures on her upper right arm and lower left leg.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Gunshots may have caused open fractures? How can you not recognize a gunshot wound? Especially if you're an army surgon.
Lets just say that the one making that statement is a doctor and you're not, and leave it at that shall we?
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Thank you for those few kind words. The same to you Herr Obersturmbannführer.
Btw. are you still trying to get that green card? Keep up the good work and you'll have it in no time!
Yeah, because US immigrations and naturalizations services (or whoever it is who makes the desicions on those green cards) is monitoring BB's like this one to find potential immigrants to the US...
Besides, if I really wanted to get a greencard and move to the US do you really think it would be that difficult? Hmm...Swedish, highly educated, no criminal record, perfect health, good income, two kids...
I mean if they let people like Grunherz in, there should be a red carpet reception complete with honor guard and brass band for me at the airport.
-
I had the link Blur posted maybe a week ago, but in Russian from BBC Russian service.
I was too lazy to find it in English, otherwise I think I couldn't resist to post it here.
What a joke :(
"Wag the dog" movie in action.
Indeed, the masters of all lies.
Why don't Russian special forces make spectacular movies about liberating slaves in Chechnya?... We have to learn some propaganda warfare from the enemy.
-
You have reached a conclusion? I certainly have not.
What is obvious here is the facts of the events leading up to, during and beyond the alleged rescue/recovery are still under investigation.
So you dont trust the investigators in the military or politicians in the government but you trust reporters in media. None of them are trustworthy yet you seek to believe those that represent your preconceived notions of tail wagging and enemy propaganda.
-
Why don't Russian special forces make spectacular movies about liberating slaves in Chechnya?...
lack of creative genius ?
too much wine on the job ?
not enough money?
too lazy ?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Why don't Russian special forces make spectacular movies about liberating slaves in Chechnya?
Lack of successful rescue operations? I mean everyone knows the Russian way...gas everyone and hope some hostages survives.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
"There was no [sign of] shooting, no bullet inside her body, no stab wound - only road traffic accident. They want to distort the picture. I don't know why they think there is some benefit in saying she has a bullet injury."
"I examined her, I saw she had a broken arm, a broken thigh and a dislocated ankle," said Dr Harith a-Houssona, who looked after her.
This guy is a doctor too ... shal we leave it at that?
Yeah...road traffic accident...
Sooo...An Iraqi "doctor" making a statement without anything to back him up vs US Army surgeon with complete medical files, X-ray images to back his statement up.
Believe whoever you want.
-
Well, then the Iraqi doctor shouldnt have any problem to back his statement up with x-ray images ...right?
And have you seen what the Iraqi hospitals looked like after 12 years of sanctions? Lets just say I'm not entirely convinced every hospital actually had x-ray capability.
-
Hmmm... I've read pretty much all of the articles on Jessica. The ones being cited were written before she'd even made it out of Iraq. I'm curious as to just when that interview occured.
The media knew there was a story and ran with it. Everyone would rather argue the race of a certain NYT reporter than acknowledge that 50% of what they read is quite simply fabricated.
Find a single article with the line: "Jessica said..." or "according to jessica..." They're not out there.
MiniD
-
Originally posted by Mini D
Find a single article with the line: "Jessica said..." or "according to jessica..." They're not out there.
MiniD
She's not going to say a word about her ordeal until her book deal is signed. ;)
-
Originally posted by Airhead
She's not going to say a word about her ordeal until her book deal is signed. ;)
LOL! I don't doubt that at all. Just seems there were alot of first day stories detailing the actions of someone that hadn't said a word to anyone yet.
MiniD
-
Originally posted by Airhead
She's not going to say a word about her ordeal until her book deal is signed. ;)
a book or a film ? (or both ?)
-
I picture Calista Flockhart in the title role.
(http://bigbelch.com/celebs/calista.gif)
(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/US/South/04/03/sprj.irq.rescue/story.jessica.lynch.jpg)
-
Half a dozen US soldiers were captured during that fight and later repatriated. In due time the truth will be told.
Until then, everyone is speculating beyond the facts already known.
Apart from the usual asses, all is well.
-
Hortlund: Hmmm, let's see...she was taken prisoner uninjured, and was retrieved with spinal injuries, multiple major bone breaks, and contusions...from a hospital...where she may have been under painkillers or sedation.
Hortlund, where did you get that info that she was captured unharmed? The last I saw in the newspaper was that she did not have any stab or gunshot wounds but suffered broken bones and spine when her vehicle overturned from the explosion. Could you provide the link or reference please?
...her inability to provide total recall of the events...
As far as I know, after her resc.. er, retrieval she never publicly or officially said anything about the circumstances of her capture and stay in the hospital - including claim about memory gaps. Do you have any references for that opinion or do you just make it up as you go along?
And while we are at it, some old stuff:
miko: That's called psychological pressure - making prisoners believe they are threatened when in reality they are not.
In order to work properly threats must be combined with severe sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, acute physical discomphort (being tied in ackward positions for hours, confined to narrow spaces, etc.), humiliation and other kinds of treatment that destroy person's mind.
Maverick: Miko, You obviously need to research the geneva convention. I'm sure your training in the ussr didn't cover it. I'm sure because of the absolutely stupid post you made.
Maveric, I described the general methods of psychological torture that pose small risk to life or even physical health and indicated that it is what Iraqis might have been doing.
Your statement quoted here implies that I tried to justify any side using them or called for using them or claimed they were legal while I did not say anything of that sort. I'm sure only your narrowmindedness and inability to use your brain made you post such an absolutely stupid reply as a knee-jerking reaction to seing my name rather than based on anything I've said here.
I certainly did not study Geneva convention in the USSR army but I know it does not forbid private citizens like myself knowing the techniques and methods of phsychological or other torture and describing them on the forums.
I know for sure that US have been and is using those and worse methods on prisoners - directly and through intermediaries.
Most recently, from a US official admitting that they cannot allow lawyers to visit the Guantanamo inmates because it would disrupt the round-the clock regime of sensory deprivation and other tortures similar to what I've just described.
miko
-
Originally posted by miko2d
Maverick: Miko, You obviously need to research the geneva convention. I'm sure your training in the ussr didn't cover it. I'm sure because of the absolutely stupid post you made.
Maveric, I described the general methods of psychological torture that pose small risk to life or even physical health and indicated that it is what Iraqis might have been doing.
miko
I am responding to you to reiterate that you need to research the geneva convention. The "tactics" you posted that caused my response to you are expressly forbidden against uniformed armed or unarmed combatants.
I would like you to point out in the quote above anywhere I have used the word justify or the phrase that you were justifying the use of these "tactics".
Your name doesn't cause any reaction on the part of my knees.
:rolleyes: I never knew you were interested in my knees. Perhaps it is a good thing you are on the other side of the continent. My knees take comfort in the distance. :rolleyes:
-
This idea deserve it's own Post
-
Here are some things I am disappointed with in Gulf War 2:
(1) I didnt get to see a single person killed on camera. All I saw were a *few* dead bodies. BORING. However on one channel I did see British troops fire into a house, throw a flashbang, and someone ran out on fire. I'm a big kid now, let me see what war is all about.
(2) Whenever CNN or Fox would report U.S. troops getting killed, they would not give any details. Thats crap reporting. If I were a war correspondant, I would give exact details "Pvt So&So was lying prone looking through his binoculars when he was shot in the forehead". Makes it much more personal and interesting. "2 Marines were killed today near Basra" BORING
(3) The coverage of the capture of Baghdad was very poor. The thing I remember was a bunch of reporters of jabbering and a few clips of a tree-lined road.
(4) The reporters didn't know the difference between a tank and a humvee. From "b17 stealth bombers" to calling everything with wheels or tracks a "tank". Oh well.
-
david, if you had another brain it would die of loneliness. LOL No offense, but you're just about the most clueless kid I've ever read a post from.
-
I just found out one of my buddies over there was one of those in the group that rescued J. Lynch!!!! :eek:
-
As i said before my Brother was the one who flew that group who saved her out after they were done! :D He said he cant tell me the stories in email as they all get checked but when he gets home boy oh boy! :cool:
-
Definately cool. :D I hadnt even opened up this post until today. I got off the phone with my bud's mother and she told me he was one of the grunts they sent in (hes pretty highly trained - dunno if you can even call him a grunt anymore).
Good for him I say - 6 years ago before he went in he tried to kill himself - talk about a doing a 180!
He's a soldier's soldier - no girl, no family, all country.
-
Been reading "SEALs, UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam" by T.L. Bosilijevac. It sounds like one of the most gratifying missions was the rescue of POWs (Americans AND allies). Mazz, boxboy pls congratulate them on a job well done!
mauser
-
Originally posted by mauser
Been reading "SEALs, UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam" by T.L. Bosilijevac. It sounds like one of the most gratifying missions was the rescue of POWs (Americans AND allies). Mazz, boxboy pls congratulate them on a job well done!
mauser
"bad bo" is a very smart dude. his books are from the 1% that you should actually trust. hes also a bad bellybutton operator.
-
Originally posted by MrCoffee
Combat Swimmer by Rober A Gromely was my favorite special operator book. Death in the Jungle by Gary R Smith was pretty good also.
;)
first guy you mention is a stand up guy.
-
Originally posted by mauser
Been reading "SEALs, UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam" by T.L. Bosilijevac. It sounds like one of the most gratifying missions was the rescue of POWs (Americans AND allies). Mazz, boxboy pls congratulate them on a job well done!
mauser
Uh... Exactly how many POWs were rescued in Viet Nam? Hint: The answer is less than one.
-
Originally posted by Airhead
Uh... Exactly how many POWs were rescued in Viet Nam? Hint: The answer is less than one.
youre talking rescued from a pow camp and in that case you are correct. there were guys who were rescued before they were hustled off to a full blown pow camp. a pilot being herded by an enemy patrol that gets ambushed is still a pow until the patrol is wiped out. this happened more than once in VN.
-
Originally posted by anonymous
youre talking rescued from a pow camp and in that case you are correct. there were guys who were rescued before they were hustled off to a full blown pow camp. a pilot being herded by an enemy patrol that gets ambushed is still a pow until the patrol is wiped out. this happened more than once in VN.
I beg your pardon but I believe you are incorrect. First of all to the best of my knowledge virtually all of our POWs were aviators shot down well over North Vietnam and once captured there was no chance of recovery and, secondly, in the South the Viet Cong never took prisoners because they used gurella hit and run tatics and couldn't be slowed by prisoners. If they did, however, attempt to march a grunt up the Ho Chi Minh trail and were ambushed they would have killed the grunt straight away. Sorry to burst your bubble, but to the best of my knowledge there was never a specific mission designed to recover POWs, much less a POW actually rescued.
-
Maybe I should've been more specific, although I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. The POW rescues I've read about so far are mostly ARVN that were captured during the Tet Offensive. I guess I shoulda specified that the Americans rescued so far as my reading were prevented from being POWs. Geesh.
anonymous: That was one of the reasons why I got the book. I read it was his thesis during grad school. His sources are unit histories, periodicals, books obtained from the Naval Historical Center.
btw.. repeating my congrats to Mazz's bud and boxboy's bro for a job well done.
mauser
-
Originally posted by Airhead
I beg your pardon but I believe you are incorrect. First of all to the best of my knowledge virtually all of our POWs were aviators shot down well over North Vietnam and once captured there was no chance of recovery and, secondly, in the South the Viet Cong never took prisoners because they used gurella hit and run tatics and couldn't be slowed by prisoners. If they did, however, attempt to march a grunt up the Ho Chi Minh trail and were ambushed they would have killed the grunt straight away. Sorry to burst your bubble, but to the best of my knowledge there was never a specific mission designed to recover POWs, much less a POW actually rescued.
no pardon required dude. but plenty of pilots shot down in SVN and in locations that were not well over NVN. pows were rescued before being collected at pow camps on more than one occasion. ive talked to guys who were my instructors way back when who were on these ops. as for a mission designed to rescue pows look up the son tay raid.
-
Originally posted by mauser
anonymous: That was one of the reasons why I got the book. I read it was his thesis during grad school. His sources are unit histories, periodicals, books obtained from the Naval Historical Center.
his sources also consist of great interviews and he had access to info most writers wouldnt have thanks to him being a SEAL. the guy has been involved in alot of high speed ops all over the globe. a really nice guy in person as well.
-
Thanks for the Song Tay link, but nonetheless it says no POWs were recovered. (In fact you might call the Song Tay "clusterf**k, except we didn't lose any people.)
Whatever, like Mauser says it's no big deal, so carry on your stories of daring military rescues. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Airhead
Thanks for the Song Tay link, but nonetheless it says no POWs were recovered. (In fact you might call the Song Tay "clusterf**k, except we didn't lose any people.)
Whatever, like Mauser says it's no big deal, so carry on your stories of daring military rescues. :rolleyes:
dunno dude a cluster**** to me means poor planning and poor execution. on son tay the only hitch was that the pows were moved shortly before the raid. the raid went off just as planned the enemy were wiped out without loss to the rescuing force and the raid did accomplish something. it caused the enemy to move all the pows to hanoi. this was good because before they were in many smaller camps and alot of guys disappeared from those camps never to be seen again. when all our guys were in hanoi together it was guranteed that if someone was captured theyd turn up in hanoi sooner than later. dont know what you mean by "stories of daring military rescues". like i said when i was being taught how to conduct that type of op years ago some of my teachers were guys who had run that type of op in VN. they used the what went wrong and what worked good from real life ops to teach the new guys. they still do. you say daring but in all honesty what alot of them ammounted to was the guys getting reliable intel that pows were being held at village x and the enemy strength at village y wasnt really overwhelming. so village y gets raided once the sun goes down. by the way the son tay link was so you could see that such missions were indeed planned.
-
Originally posted by anonymous
...by the way the son tay link was so you could see that such missions were indeed planned.
K, I'd not heard if Son Tay before, or if I had it's a distant memory. Thanks for the education.
At least it went better than the Iran hostage rescue attempt.
-
Originally posted by Airhead
At least it went better than the Iran hostage rescue attempt.
that was a heartbreaker. the planning was sound if the delta boys had managed to insert i think they could have rescued the hostages and gotten out. there were many armed militia in tehran but they were mostly block specific groups with no coordination or communication between themselves. the extract from the soccer stadium was a great idea as well. i think they would have been gone before a counterassault with enough forces could have been organized and executed. and that origional group of delta guys was very capable and experienced. but there was a small benefit to that disaster even. it led to creation of jsoc and joint service training even when working up for normal deployment. for example tf160 works with SEAL platoons all the time during deployment workups now. was a costly lesson tho alot of great guys killed before they got a chance to show their stuff.