Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BGBMAW on April 01, 2003, 08:59:07 PM
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real shame...i know polls easliy biased...but the desecration is disgusting...
One in three French backs Saddam
By Charles Bremner and Alan Hamilton
ILL-FEELING between Britain and France over the invasion of Iraq has plumbed new depths with the desecration of that most sacred of memorials, a war cemetery.
The defilement of Commonwealth war graves in northern France coincided with a poll for The Times which found that 54 per cent of Britons no longer regarded France as a close ally because of its opposition to the war.
Relations will be further rent by a second poll, in Le Monde, showing that only a third of the French felt that they were on the same side as the Americans and British, and that another third desired outright Iraqi victory over “les anglo-saxons”.
Eleven thousand Allied soldiers lie buried in well-tended peace at Etaples, on the Channel coast near Le Touquet, victims of the struggle by Anglo-Saxons to liberate the French from the German invaders during the First World War.
Last week the obelisk raised in their memory was defiled by red-painted insults such as “Rosbeefs go home”; “May Saddam prevail and spill your blood”; and, in a reference to the long-dead casualties beneath the manicured turf, “They are soiling our land”.
Local gendarmerie have launched an inquiry, but have so far found no clues. They say there had been no significant demonstrations against the war in that area of France.
The graffiti have been scrubbed off, but the incident has provoked outrage among British politicians, war graves staff and the few remaining relatives of those buried at Etaples. French politicians have joined the condemnation.
Bruce George, Labour chairman of the Commons Defence Committee, said: “Remembering what sacrifice these men made for the liberation of France, I cannot believe any mature, sane person would be so stupid as that.”
David Uffold, 63, a Shropshire farmer, is the only surviving relative of Rifleman Frederick Uffold of the London Regiment, who is buried at Etaples. “I find it sickening that anyone would vandalise the cemetery,” he said. “It is the last place they should be protesting about Iraq. These fellows were drafted in to fight for France. I can’t see any connection between the men buried at Etaples and the war in Iraq.”
Peter Francis, of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, said he was disgusted that a place remembering those who died defending freedom in world wars long ago should be dragged into a current political debate.
French politicians did their best to portray the desecration as an isolated act, but it nonetheless underlined anti-American and anti-British emotions running through France over what is seen there as a bungled invasion rapidly turning into a humanitarian disaster.
President Chirac’s spokesman said: “We are indignant and shocked by the desecration of the graves of soldiers who fought for our liberty.” Jean-Pierre Raffarin, the Prime Minister, said: “The Americans are not the enemy; just because we are against this war, it does not mean that we want the victory of dictatorship over democracy.”
Im sure this was doen by soem dum asss kids..i hope...or is this a Blitz and weazel thing
Love
BiGB
xoxo
as a bungled invasion rapidly turning into a humanitarian disaster.
..lmfao...brainwashed..i guess when a country takes over a 2/3 of a countyr they call it "bungled"..what did they call the germans invasion of there country? I guess the Germans "bungled "that one too....lmfaoo
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I'm sure they are looking real hard for the criminals.
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they are looking real hard...
....for blitz's velvet david hasselhoff painting.
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jeez...they let Jim Morrisons grave get graffitized (word???) and now this !!!
preposterous!!!
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and worst they are unable to do a proper swastika : (http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003150352,00.jpg)
About Jim Morrisson grave it's cleaned from time to time ...
But the fan keep paint on it.
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Good ol' Jim Morrison, causing trouble even after his death.
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excuse my ignorance, but what's a rosbeef?
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Cant say if this is more stupid or criminal:(
Anyway stupids and cowards are everywhere, then why that "classic French" on top???
:confused:
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"roast beef" maybe, for Beefeater?
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'Rosbeef' is what the French call the English, when the English call the French 'Frogs'. It is a bastardization of the words 'Roast Beef'.
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hmm too bad there's no Hitler still around for us to threaten to give them back to :)
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Actualy, the ones writing that on that Tombstone probably are nazi lovers.
What a shame do do things like this :(
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
Relations will be further rent by a second poll, in Le Monde, showing that only a third of the French felt that they were on the same side as the Americans and British, and that another third desired outright Iraqi victory over “les anglo-saxons”.
I honestly do not know what to say.
One third of the French population desires Iraqi victory... One third...
Why?
Suddenly all my animosity towards the french seems so very justified.
Reap what you sow french guys...
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Becauae 1/3 of the french economy is illegal weapons and oil business with iraq. ;)
Peace for Oil!!!
FYI:
Another 1/3 of the french ecomony is dedicated to being on strike, so at any one time 1/3 of the workers are on strike.
The last 1/3 is dedicated to preservation of french culture which includes making whines, cheese, burning down mcdonalds, stopping the USA, making french fashinon clothing etc. The UN departmebt is here as well.
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One third of the French population want these guys to defeat the US/UK and stay in power.
Iraqi "soldiers" use children as human shields (http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/02/wfeyad02.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/02/ixnewstop.html)
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Suddenly all my animosity towards the french seems so very justified.
you pretend being rationnal now ?
This post is 1/3 rationnal too.
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Wrong, this thread should be renamed "classic idiots and criminals". The whole Europe is in a strange situation.
In Spain (officially supporting USA) there is about 90% (IIRC) of the people against the war against Iraq.
Germany and France are strongly against war but are afraid to lose their business in the whole area. In the meantime, they allow USA to use her bases there.
In Italy (officially supporting the USA) more than 60% of the people is against any war.
However, we have more than 5,000 troops abrod involved in peacekeeping or peacenforcing (sp?) missions. About 1,500 italian mountain and special forces are in Afghanistan patrolling Kabul and the Pakistan border.
This raised a lot of criticism from the left wing of the parliament. Those same leftists sent our Tornado to bomb Serbia some time ago, without the permission of ONU.
Besides, Italy doesnt allow USA to use her bases to launch attacks against Iraq (the recent departure of USA paras from Italy created a big problem inside and outside the parliament).
I see idiots and bastards everywhere. It depends on your POV.
What I find disgusting is that many european politicians consider this war only as a mean for their political ends.
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We launch whatever we want from whatever base we want, depending on our interests. While we try to respect the wishes of the gov'ts in whose borders our bases sit, we are certainly not beholden to them.
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Tagging poeple under a same brand because they were born on a particular part of soil is utter cretinism.
You sure qualify for that Hortlund
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Tagging poeple under a same brand because they were born on a particular part of soil is utter cretinism.
You sure qualify for that Hortlund
Well Saw, am I judging them on their nationality or on their opinions? Surely you agree that its ok to call an idiot an idiot.
So, I have a poll saying that 33% of the entire French population wants Saddam to win this war. That means there are more Frenchmen who wants to see Saddam win this war than there is Iraqis. Does that sound insane to you? And you really should adress the why question too. Why does 33% of THE ENTIRE FRENCH POPULATION want Saddam to win this war? Why is that Saw? Why?
Moving on, I also have the track record of Chirac-le-worm, he was elected by something like 80% of the French population. And polls in France has shown that his actions in this conflict has had a massive support by the French population.
So...the case against the French so far:
The elected Chirac and they supported his policy. This policy led to a delay of the war that will cause additional casualties beause the US/UK coalition will be forced to fight a war in sandstorm/hot as owen-season. That was before the war started. AFTER the war started, 33% of the French population sided with Saddam, one of the most brutal murderous barbaric dictators there is.
Granted there might be some normal French guys who opposed Chirac (20%) who opposed his policy (even less than 20%) and who support the US/UK coalition now (33%). I have no quarrel with those guys. The rest can ** **** themselves ** **** ******* ******** ************* *****!
But since 80% of them elected Chirac-le-maggot, I think it is fair to use the term "the french" instead of saying "all the french guys except the handful that did not vote for Chirac and who opposed his policy and who supports the war now".
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Originally posted by Martlet
We launch whatever we want from whatever base we want, depending on our interests. While we try to respect the wishes of the gov'ts in whose borders our bases sit, we are certainly not beholden to them.
What an arrogance, mister.
You seem to know very well how to make new friends.
BTW, I guess you are little wrong, about this, or maybe not.
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that's true 1/3 of me is supporting saddam ...
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Originally posted by straffo
that's true 1/3 of me is supporting saddam ...
LOL based on your previous posts on this matter I'd say its pretty obvious to anyone who can read that you are firmly in the "was supporting Chirac's policy"- camp.
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We launch whatever we want from whatever base we want, depending on our interests. While we try to respect the wishes of the gov'ts in whose borders our bases sit, we are certainly not beholden to them.
How are US relations with Turkey going?
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Originally posted by Dowding
How are US relations with Turkey going?
pretty good, thanks for asking.
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Originally posted by Naso
What an arrogance, mister.
You seem to know very well how to make new friends.
BTW, I guess you are little wrong, about this, or maybe not.
Are you saying I'm wrong, or I'm right? If you are saying I'm wrong, read your post first. You prove my point yourself.
As for arrogance, yes, I am.
As for friends...well, it's always lonely at the top.
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Pretty good? Does 'good' have a different meaning in your part of the world?
Your original assertion was called for what it is (arrogant hot air).
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Originally posted by Hortlund
LOL based on your previous posts on this matter I'd say its pretty obvious to anyone who can read that you are firmly in the "was supporting Chirac's policy"- camp.
How it put me in the 1/3 side ?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Pretty good? Does 'good' have a different meaning in your part of the world?
Your original assertion was called for what it is (arrogant hot air).
how is it not good? explain please.
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Originally posted by straffo
How it put me in the 1/3 side ?
It doesnt, but it puts you in the
"The rest can ** **** themselves ** **** ******* ******** ************* *****!"
-category.
..sorry
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you can find the article here :
http://www.lemonde.fr/recherche_articleweb/1,9687,314889,00.html?query=sondage&query2=&booleen=et&num_page=1&auteur=&dans=dansarticle&periode=7&ordre=pertinence&debutjour=&debutmois=&debutannee=&finjour=&finmois=&finannee=&G_NBARCHIVES=769+078
Un tiers des sondés seulement se sentent "du côté des Etats-Unis", un quart se déclarent "du côté de l'Irak"
Un sondage Ipsos-"Le Monde"-TF1 fait état d'une opinion massivement hostile à la guerre et très critique envers les Etats-Unis, accusés d'en être les premiers responsables. A Washington, l'administration Bush est sous le feu de critiques sur la manière dont le conflit est mené.
Sondage IPSOS "Le Monde" - TF1
L'Irak en ligne de mire
Leurs manifestations ont beau marquer le pas, les opposants à la guerre américaine en Irak ne désarment pas. Dix jours après son déclenchement, les Français y sont plus que jamais hostiles, et une grande majorité d'entre eux tiennent les Etats-Unis pour responsables de ce conflit. Au-delà de ce réquisitoire antiaméricain, l'opinion française exprime une inquiétude grandissante sur les risques de la guerre. Tels sont les principaux enseignements du sondage réalisé par Ipsos pour Le Monde et TF1.
En effet, près de quatre Français sur cinq (78 %) désapprouvent - et plus de la moitié (53 %) désapprouvent totalement - l'intervention américaine et britannique en Irak, contre 17 % seulement qui l'approuvent et 5 % qui ne se prononcent pas. Cette condamnation est pratiquement sans appel chez les jeunes de moins de 35 ans (84 %), chez les cadres supérieurs (90 %), parmi les plus diplômés (87 % chez les bac +3 et plus, contre 61 % chez les non-diplômés) et dans les milieux les moins populaires (83 % dans les foyers dont le revenu mensuel est supérieur à 2 000 euros), ainsi que chez les Parisiens (83 %).
Enfin, plus on est à gauche, plus on est opposé à la guerre : 85 % des sympathisants d'extrême gauche ou de la gauche parlementaire expriment cette position, contre 76 % de ceux de la droite et 48 % seulement de ceux d'extrême droite. Cette condamnation massive serait certes nettement atténuée dans l'hypothèse où l'Irak utiliserait des armes chimiques contre les forces américaines et britanniques : mais même cette éventualité ne ferait pas changer d'avis à une majorité (52 %) de ceux qui désapprouvent l'intervention américaine.
ANTIAMÉRICANISME
C'est dire qu'aux yeux des Français la responsabilité américaine dans ce conflit est évidente : c'est le cas pour les deux tiers d'entre eux (65 %), contre 12 % seulement qui font porter la responsabilité sur l'Irak, tandis que 11 % jugent que la responsabilité incombe autant aux Etats-Unis qu'à l'Irak et que 12 % ne se prononcent pas. Cet antiaméricanisme obéit au même profil que celui des opposants à la guerre : il est particulièrement fort chez les jeunes, les plus diplômés, les catégories sociales supérieures et les électeurs de gauche.
Plus impressionnant encore est le faible degré de solidarité des Français avec les Etats-Unis et la Grande-Bretagne. Un tiers d'entre eux seulement (34 %) répondent que, dans ce conflit, ils se sentent " plutôt du côté des Etats-Unis et des Anglais" et ce pourcentage est systématiquement inférieur à la majorité, même chez les sympathisants de droite (44 %) et chez les plus âgés (47 % chez les plus de 70 ans). A l'inverse, un quart des sondés se déclarent " plutôt du côté de l'Irak" et jusqu'à 30 % chez les moins de 35 ans. Enfin, 31 % des personnes interrogées disent ne se sentir proches d'aucun des deux camps et 10 % ne se prononcent pas.
C'est donc peu dire que ce conflit a profondément affaibli les liens transatlantiques. De même, quand on demande aux sondés si, " au fond d'eux-mêmes, ils souhaitent la victoire des Etats-Unis", il ne s'en trouve tout de même qu'une courte majorité (53 %) pour répondre positivement et une forte minorité (33 %, et même 51 % à l'extrême gauche) pour exprimer le souhait inverse.
"PLUTÔT MOINS BIEN"
Au-delà de ce sentiment antiaméricain très fort, l'opinion française a manifestement pris toute la mesure du caractère inquiétant du conflit et des risques qu'il fait naître. Ainsi, plus des trois quarts (77 %) jugent que, sur le terrain, " les choses se passent plutôt moins bien" que ne disent les responsables militaires et politiques des forces de la coalition. De même, plus personne n'imagine que cette guerre puisse être rapide : pour 38 % elle durera plusieurs semaines, pour 48 % plusieurs mois et même pour 7 % plusieurs années. Quant à la probabilité de la victoire des Américains et des Britanniques sur l'Irak, elle est tout de même jugée " loin d'être évidente" par 43 % des personnes interrogées, contre 33 % qui la jugent " probable" et 21 % seulement certaine.
On est donc très loin des scénarios de guerre éclair et triomphale qui semblaient s'imposer il y a dix jours à peine. D'autant que la hiérarchie des inquiétudes des Français par rapport à ce conflit est sans ambiguïtés. Pour près de la moitié d'entre eux (44 %, et 48 % chez les femmes), ses conséquences sur la paix dans le monde constituent la principale inquiétude.
Si l'on y ajoute les 21 % pour qui le plus inquiétant est la conséquence du conflit sur le terrorisme et les 31 % qui en redoutent les conséquences humanitaires, il est clair que les Français ont clairement pris la mesure des risques et font passer très au second plan leur crainte que cette guerre ne dégrade la situation économique française (18 %). L'opinion française apparaît donc hostile à la guerre, inquiète de ses conséquences internationales et franchement accusatrice à l'égard des Etats-Unis.
Gérard Courtois
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the 1/3 part is here :
quote was wrong
C'est donc peu dire que ce conflit a profondément affaibli les liens transatlantiques. De même, quand on demande aux sondés si, " au fond d'eux-mêmes, ils souhaitent la victoire des Etats-Unis", il ne s'en trouve tout de même qu'une courte majorité (53 %) pour répondre positivement et une forte minorité (33 %, et même 51 % à l'extrême gauche) pour exprimer le souhait inverse.
you can use 51% now.
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You asserted that 'we can do as we please from our bases, when we want, how we like it, and without ko-towing to the country in which our base resides'.
That's hardly the case with Turkey, is it? They stopped a whole battlegroup, which was to be the entire Northern front in the Iraq war, from even unloading at the dockside, nevermind passing through.
Relations with Turkey in general have never been lower.
Morevover, take Saudi Arabia. The US has just made massive extension to its bases there and, because of the position of the Saudi government, is not allowed to use them for military operations.
So your assertion, while it might comfort you, is not based in reality at all.
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I'm sorry, what US bases in Turkey are we not allowed to launch military operations from?
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[edit] With all respect for allied soldiers fighting there [/edit] ...
Does "waiting two months in front of Turkeys shores" and "circumnavigating the whole arabic peninsula to get to Kuwait" means "using bases"? :)
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Originally posted by gatt
Does "waiting two months in front of Turkeys shores" and "circumnavigating the whole arabic peninsula to get to Kuwait" means "using bases"? :)
Never did I say we could use anyone's bases that we want. I said we can fly whatever we want from OUR bases.
Please read the posts, then put together an intelligent response before posting.
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Originally posted by Martlet
... put together an intelligent response before posting
Martlet you are right ..... gawd you are so right. Read it carefully you too, plz ;) :) :D
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Originally posted by gatt
Martlet you are right ..... gawd you are so right :p ;) :) :D
I know, thank you for realizing it. Obviously you chose not to take my advice, though.
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useless repetitive slander against the French again........:rolleyes:
I'm gonna start thinking you really DO care about the French:D
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The US planned to launch an offensive involving 62,000 troops using Turkish bases and Incerlik for operations. As far as I know, Incerlik is not allowed to be used for airstrikes.
How about Saudi Arabia and Riyadh?
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As far as I know, it isn't.
What about Saudi Arabia and Riyadh?
I ask again, what US bases are we not "allowed" to launch strikes from?
not:
Turkish bases
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Polls Steve, Polls.... I could probably look up the "internet" and find one that will say the excact opposite.
I can tell you that I am watching the French news (TV), the Television Media in France certainly has more of a CNN / Real TV skew than a Sadaam one. (You don't need to understand french, just go look at http://www.france2.fr or http://www.tf1.fr and you'll get the feeling.)
Also, The French voted 80% for Chirac because at that time they had the choice between him and the local Hitler wannabe, I guess you hate these poeple so much you bother to read the news that only fits your plans ?
You also should know that there is a large percentage of Muslim population in France (France tends to be to some African coutries what the USA is to you ;) ... some kind of "golden land"). How would you cope with that as a Head of state?
Burn them all perhaps ?
And to answer your question before you post it:
Yes, Sadaam needs to be removed, it is something that had to be done, I'm glad someone stepped up to do it. but No I do not have to "enjoy it" like some of the poeple that seem to do here. this is not a free "REAL TV".
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Straffo, dear... I don't think anyone here will bother translating that wall of text, and I feel too lazy now to translate it 8)
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Straffo, dear... I don't think anyone here will bother translating that wall of text, and I feel too lazy now to translate it 8)
It basically said what Hortland said, only remove the swedish slant and add a french one.
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This is what bablefish came up with:
It is thus little to say that this conflict deeply weakened the transatlantic bonds. In the same way, when one asks probed if, "at the bottom of themselves, they wish the victory of the United States", it is all the same of it only one short majority (53 %) to answer positively and a strong minority (33 %, and even 51 % with the extreme left) to express the opposite wish.
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Well, at least from this thread everyone can really understand the status of USA-Europe relationships and their respective attitudes :rolleyes:
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Your original post was in answer to gatt's comment about Italy not allowing the US to launch strikes from its bases. You basically said that the US could do what it likes from its bases. In Italy, the US base at Aviano, is not actually owned by the US at all. It has a similar arrangement regarding Incerlik in Turkey and Ryadh in Saudi Arabia. Therefore your point, in answer to gatt's point about overseas bases, has nothing to do with bases actually owned by the US.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Straffo, dear... I don't think anyone here will bother translating that wall of text, and I feel too lazy now to translate it 8)
C'est leur probleme pas le mien si ils ne peuvent pas lire la source originale ...
Je fait souvent cet effort c'est leur tour.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Your original post was in answer to gatt's comment about Italy not allowing the US to launch strikes from its bases. You basically said that the US could do what it likes from its bases. In Italy, the US base at Aviano, is not actually owned by the US at all. It has a similar arrangement regarding Incerlik in Turkey and Ryadh in Saudi Arabia. Therefore your point, in answer to gatt's point about overseas bases, has nothing to do with bases actually owned by the US.
The US has an Army, a Navy, and an Air Force base in Italy.
Please try to keep up.
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Originally posted by straffo
C'est leur probleme pas le mien si ils ne peuvent pas lire la source originale ...
Je fait souvent cet effort c'est leur tour.
C'est un BBS anglais. Si vous voudriez que les personnes comprennent votre avis, vous devriez écrire en anglais. Pas chacun peut parler français, même pendant que le mauvais en tant que mien.
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It's not the problem Martlett ,if you want to use a source you should rely on the primary source not a secondary one.
Do we agree again ?
If ever I try to translate this text it would be :
[list=1]
- badly translated
- my interpretation
- completly unreadable :) (it's almost unreadable in french)
[/list=1]
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Yes, but they are not 'yours'. They are still property of the Italians.
Hence, your point that they can do as they like is not correct. As we have seen with the Saudis and the Turks, they can dictate what they get used for. And they have done. The Italians are not letting strike aircraft launch from there, only as a stop-over.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Yes, but they are not 'yours'. They are still property of the Italians.
Hence, your point that they can do as they like is not correct. As we have seen with the Saudis and the Turks, they can dictate what they get used for. And they have done. The Italians are not letting strike aircraft launch from there, only as a stop-over.
You are incorrect. They are ours.
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Originally posted by straffo
It's not the problem Martlett ,if you want to use a source you should rely on the primary source not a secondary one.
Do we agree again ?
If ever I try to translate this text it would be :
[list=1]
- badly translated
- my interpretation
- completly unreadable :) (it's almost unreadable in french)
[/list=1] [/B]
I do agree. I'm simply stating that if you want to make a point, and truly have people understand it, then you should post in a language they understand. Unless they speak French or have it explained, it serves your argument no justice.
With the US being as far away from much of the world as it is, speaking multiple languages isn't as common over here.
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Incerlik, Ryadh and Aviano are yours?
I'm afraid you're in for a shock.
Check this (http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20020722d.asp) article for starters about Aviano.
"Navigating among Aviano's many sponsors and contracting agents would frustrate an experienced program manager. Although the upgrade is a NATO project, Italy is the host country and owns the base. All contracts must comply with Italian legal standards."
I'll find more when I get more time. Enjoy.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Incerlik, Ryadh and Aviano are yours?
I'm afraid you're in for a shock.
Check this (http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20020722d.asp) article for starters about Aviano.
"Navigating among Aviano's many sponsors and contracting agents would frustrate an experienced program manager. Although the upgrade is a NATO project, Italy is the host country and owns the base. All contracts must comply with Italian legal standards."
I'll find more when I get more time. Enjoy.
I never said any of those were ours.
Please get your facts straight before posting.
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Originally posted by Martlet
I do agree. I'm simply stating that if you want to make a point, and truly have people understand it, then you should post in a language they understand. Unless they speak French or have it explained, it serves your argument no justice.
With the US being as far away from much of the world as it is, speaking multiple languages isn't as common over here.
I agree (ouch ... next step we will embrace each other ;))
I just wanted to add the original source nothing more.
I't not my fault if you've chosen English as your native langage :p
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Originally posted by straffo
I agree (ouch ... next step we will embrace each other ;))
I just wanted to add the original source nothing more.
I't not my fault if you've chosen English as your native langage :p
your native language, unfortunately, is not a choice. However, if you have one, English is by far the best. Languages should be stressed in school, though.
Many people speak French where I grew up.
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So when gatt was talking about Italian bases, and you replied to him, what were you referring to?
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Originally posted by Dowding
So when gatt was talking about Italian bases, and you replied to him, what were you referring to?
Livorno, Vicenza, and Sicily.
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Originally posted by Martlet
your native language, unfortunately, is not a choice. However, if you have one, English is by far the best. Languages should be stressed in school, though.
I was kidding ;)
Many people speak French where I grew up.
ho ? by a strange coincidence it appear that it's true for me too :D
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Originally posted by straffo
I was kidding ;)
ho ? by a strange coincidence it appear that it's true for me too :D
Another strange coincidence, many people smell funny where I grew up too. ;)
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Originally posted by Martlet
Livorno, Vicenza, and Sicily.
SICILY??????!!!!!!
THE ENTIRE SICILY????
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Maybe you mean Sigonella?
LOL.
And I bet that you are convinced that US invented Pizza, Pinocchio, and Leonardo was a naturalized US citizen. :D
Your real name is Al Gore?
;)
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Originally posted by Naso
SICILY??????!!!!!!
THE ENTIRE SICILY????
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Maybe you mean Sigonella?
LOL.
And I bet that you are convinced that US invented Pizza, Pinocchio, and Leonardo was a naturalized US citizen. :D
Your real name is Al Gore?
;)
Sigonella is in Sicily, in case you need a geography lesson.
The rest of your post is typical nonsense, and rhetorical, so I obviously don't need to respond.
Typical, though, that when you are proven wrong, you go completely off topic with utter crap. I love when you do that, it shows you've become so flustered you can't think of a rational response.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Sigonella is in Sicily, in case you need a geography lesson.
The rest of your post is typical nonsense, and rhetorical, so I obviously don't need to respond.
Typical, though, that when you are proven wrong, you go completely off topic with utter crap. I love when you do that, it shows you've become so flustered you can't think of a rational response.
:D
Pushed a button, uh?
Proven wrong?
When, and about what?
Stop it, or I will die laughing :)
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Originally posted by Naso
:D
Stop it, or I will die laughing :)
Feel free.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Feel free.
BTW, serious for a moment, how old you are?
Just to know if I am playing this game with an adult, or with a less than 18 old (in wich case I'll stop provoking).
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Originally posted by Hangtime
they are looking real hard...
....for blitz's velvet david hasselhoff painting.
Bwaaahahahaha!!
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lol, I missed that :D
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Naso, ease up on him. If he wants the whole Sicily to play as a general with his toy soldiers, let him get it. He has the same attitude of my old sergeant major .... hmmmm, maybe .... nhaaaaaa ... my sergeant had a really dull attitude :)
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I thought I could add something to this babel tower by saying:
I ara què eh? Qui tradueix això? Em penso que si començo a parlar català em quedaré força sol, però qui sap, potser algú te un cop amagat i fa que aquest texte, escrit en un idioma extrany per tots els usuaris d'aquest fòrum, tingui algun sentit.
Now... babelfish THIS! :D
Daniel
PS: Now this is the best language in the world, if you ask me ;) :D
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Et alors maintenant! Qui peut me traduire ça? Je pense que si je commence à parler en français, une langue que peu d'utilisateurs de ce forum pratiquent, mais qui sait, peut-être que quelqu'un en comprendra le sens...
Now... you can babelfish THIS! :p
Moi, j'ai passé une bonne partie de mes vacances à Vilassar de Mar, Catalunya ;)
Straffette :)
Feliç Pasqua!
You got busted Daniel ;)
Straffo
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Originally posted by gatt
Naso, ease up on him. If he wants the whole Sicily to play as a general with his toy soldiers, let him get it. He has the same attitude of my old sergeant major .... hmmmm, maybe .... nhaaaaaa ... my sergeant had a really dull attitude :)
Ok, Gatt, as you want....
Lol, can you imagine the rage when some of those plastic soldiers will end melted in Etna's crater?
:)
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Eh eh Straffo and Cyrano!!
:)
Visto che ci siamo, metto anche io un piccolo assaggio della mia lingua, ma come giustamente Cyrano ha detto, ci vuole qualcosa di meglio....
Vulesse sapè si mmiez'a 'sta ggente ce fosse quaccheduno ca capisce 'o napulitano, me schiattasse i cianchi rè risa si chesta fusse na BBS accussì.
Stateve bbuono a tutte quante.
Babblefish This :)
The above is the language of the most famous songs in the world :p
;)
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Originally posted by Martlet
Sigonella is in Sicily, in case you need a geography lesson.
Lol
Now now...you did use the specific locations to dispell Dowdings argument, it would seem perfectly logical Naso would pull you up for the doing same...no use getting testy about it
Tronsky
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Originally posted by Naso
Visto che ci siamo, metto anche io un piccolo assaggio della mia lingua, ma come giustamente Cyrano ha detto, ci vuole qualcosa di meglio....
Vulesse sapè si mmiez'a 'sta ggente ce fosse quaccheduno ca capisce 'o napulitano, me schiattasse i cianchi rè risa si chesta fusse na BBS accussì.
Stateve bbuono a tutte quante.
I'll ask my friend Naso to translate this ;)
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Originally posted by straffo
Et alors maintenant! Qui peut me traduire ça? Je pense que si je commence à parler en français, une langue que peu d'utilisateurs de ce forum pratiquent, mais qui sait, peut-être que quelqu'un en comprendra le sens...
Now... you can babelfish THIS! :p
Moi, j'ai passé une bonne partie de mes vacances à Vilassar de Mar, Catalunya ;)
Straffette :)
Feliç Pasqua!
You got busted Daniel ;)
Straffo
Uuuuaaaa maintenant je suis choqué, vraiment époustouflante!!
Et alors, quand est-ce que tu reviens? ;)
Daniel
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Ben apres la perte de presque 3000€ car notre chaudiére est morte ça va pas être cette année :(
-
Désolé :(
J'irai - peut-etre - à la "Ferte Alais" ce Juin, mais ça n'est pas sure...
Je sais pas si tu penses y aller.
Daniel
-
Originally posted by -tronski-
Lol
Now now...you did use the specific locations to dispell Dowdings argument, it would seem perfectly logical Naso would pull you up for the doing same...no use getting testy about it
Tronsky
Who's testy?
They spouted off. They, as usual, made completely false statements. I proved them wrong, so they changed the discussion to a lame detail, then dropped it, slinking off considering my failure to be "specific" as a major win for their team.
And read the thread again, before you join flapping minority. I said we'll do what we want. Dowding used specific locations in an attempt to discredit my statement. I challenged them, he ASKED for examples, and I gave them.
My answer That we had a station in Sicily is entirely accurate.
-
My god, you do take things seriously don't you?
I wonder if those bases are US owned... nah... can't be arsed to dig.
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Originally posted by Dowding
My god, you do take things seriously don't you?
I wonder if those bases are US owned... nah... can't be arsed to dig.
The day I take the BBS of a game I play in my spare time seriously, is the day I check myself into Danvers.
I enjoy the game, and the people I fly with.
I was raised by politicians, so through habit I try to stay informed.
I love to debate.
The majority of people on here have very creditable opinions, and portray them intelligently, even if they may differ from my own. It doesn't make them any less substantial. These are the people I can have a fun "back and forth" discussion with.
The "moron minority" makes outrageous statements. They generally aren't even familiar with the topic they are discussing. They make inflamatory posts out of hatred for a person, his country, or his beliefs. These people are fun too. They are easily exposed as morons with no factual leg to stand on. Usually they are easy to rile up, and the resulting fireshow can be fun to watch.
-
If you didnt take things seriously in this thread, how are you when you do?
Gatt, runs away taking adequate cover ..... ;)
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Originally posted by gatt
If you didnt take things seriously in this thread, how are you when you do?
Gatt, runs away taking adequate cover ..... ;)
Maybe I'm just misunderstood serious. I guess I'm "serious" about all my discussions. I try to jump into only the ones I'm knowledgeable about. I don't like to have to research to make sure I can get my point across.
However, these discussions don't elicit an emotional response. I don't get "pissed off". I just enjoy a good discussion.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Your original post was in answer to gatt's comment about Italy not allowing the US to launch strikes from its bases. You basically said that the US could do what it likes from its bases. In Italy, the US base at Aviano, is not actually owned by the US at all. It has a similar arrangement regarding Incerlik in Turkey and Ryadh in Saudi Arabia. Therefore your point, in answer to gatt's point about overseas bases, has nothing to do with bases actually owned by the US.
dowding dont bother explaining. Hes obviously oblivious to how stupid his statement appears. That the US can do whatever they like from whereever they like, whether meant in this arrogant manner or not it was either a dumb statement, an arrogant and sorely uninformed statement or just plainly badly written.He continues to ask for bases he cant fly out of and in this thread youve already pointed out 3 countries that have refused the US or UK the ability to launch strikes from.Hes either trawling or just doesnt see it.
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Originally posted by hazed-
dowding dont bother explaining. Hes obviously oblivious to how stupid his statement appears. That the US can do whatever they like from whereever they like, whether meant in this arrogant manner or not it was either a dumb statement, an arrogant and sorely uninformed statement or just plainly badly written.He continues to ask for bases he cant fly out of and in this thread youve already pointed out 3 countries that have refused the US or UK the ability to launch strikes from.Hes either trawling or just doesnt see it.
lol, lucky hes not taking it seriously...
Tronsky
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Originally posted by hazed-
dowding dont bother explaining. Hes obviously oblivious to how stupid his statement appears. That the US can do whatever they like from whereever they like, whether meant in this arrogant manner or not it was either a dumb statement, an arrogant and sorely uninformed statement or just plainly badly written.He continues to ask for bases he cant fly out of and in this thread youve already pointed out 3 countries that have refused the US or UK the ability to launch strikes from.Hes either trawling or just doesnt see it.
Are you really this dumb? Seriously, are you?
I asked which US bases we couldn't fly out of. Not NATO bases. Not Turkish bases.
Not German bases.
US bases.
The US CAN do whatever it likes, as is evident now. Sorry if that bothers you.
-
More, dear hazed, the use of Bases in the Italian Territory is under the 1954 Threaty, intergated by a memorandum of 1995, while the first is still secret, the outcome of the Cermis public investigations, let us know that the bases are Italian soil under authorization by our government of complete use of Allied forces (both NATO and US bases).
Each base have a Italian "commander" that MUST be informed of every relevant activity (his only role) and an USA (or allied) commander that have the complete responsability of the base activity.
Every activity must be made under the rules of the Italian state, including Air traffic control, driving rules, and so on.
AFAIK, of course.
But I MUST be wrong, I am just a sub-human. :)
P.S.
Mr. Martlet, in the last times you are qualifying as the second kind of people (check your own post) ;)
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Désolé :(
J'irai - peut-etre - à la "Ferte Alais" ce Juin, mais ça n'est pas sure...
Je sais pas si tu penses y aller.
Daniel
si tu y va j'y vais !
Et je te loge à la maison (il y a 1 à 2 heures de routes à peine)
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Originally posted by Naso
But I MUST be wrong, I am just a sub-human. :)
P.S.
Mr. Martlet, in the last times you are qualifying as the second kind of people (check your own post) ;)
You are correct, you are wrong.
I have no idea what your P.S. is saying. Please check with your local translator, and try again.
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If Naso is right, then Aviano falls under the jurisdiction of that ruling. Given that I've already explained that Aviano is not owned by the US, it follows that none of the other bases are owned by the US either. Consequently, your original point is not only unsubstanciated, it is also clearly incorrect.
If Naso is wrong, why don't you simply enlighten us all with your knowledge on the matter?
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Originally posted by Dowding
If Naso is right, then Aviano falls under the jurisdiction of that ruling. Given that I've already explained that Aviano is not owned by the US, it follows that none of the other bases are owned by the US either. Consequently, your original point is not only unsubstanciated, it is also clearly incorrect.
If Naso is wrong, why don't you simply enlighten us all with your knowledge on the matter?
Naso is wrong. What would you like to be enlightened on?
-
Why is he wrong? What part of his statement is incorrect? Do you have any sources that contradict his information?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Why is he wrong? What part of his statement is incorrect? Do you have any sources that contradict his information?
How can I find sources to contradict something that doesn't exist?
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martlet you made the statement the US can do whatever it liked, you at first DID NOT say solely US bases and even if you did you seem to be ignoring the fact that wherever your bases are they are used under treaty or agreement with those countries. If Italy and spain and the UK decided to agree with the French and German governments and refused to allow strikes to be launched from those bases they would simply not be used.What gets all of our backs up is the arrogant manner in which you imply the US can do whatever it likes.You have what seems to me either ignored your history lessons or simply choose not to see how obsurd your statement was.
Just for instance lets say the UK said no to launches on iraq from UK. what would you say would happen?
I say your bases in UK wold not be used.You obviously think somehow the US would just use them regardless?.
this is the point being made. Not anything more than basically:
'Martlet that was a dumb statement'
All i see is you trying your best to not admit it. 'I only meant US bases' etc is you doing exactly what you accused dowding of doing.
Sure you guys can apply pressure in political ways or financial but you simply cannot just do whatever the hell you like from whatever base you have and neither for that matter can any other country. Naso im aware of treaties etc and i agree you are correct. Legally speaking the US have the right to use their bases as they see fit but what im saying is they will ultimately bow to whatever public opinion is shown in those regions, same as all of us.They just have a bit more financial clout to try to force an issue.
Forgive me but I was of the opinion that if there was EVER a country that bows to a public opinion over a conflict its the US.
Look at vietnam and somalia. The USA COULD blow the crap outta those countries but they wont will they? Its this basic knowledge that makes martlets 'we can do whatever we like' crap so infantile.
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Originally posted by hazed-
martlet you made the statement the US can do whatever it liked, you at first DID NOT say solely US bases and even if you did you seem to be ignoring the fact that wherever your bases are they are used under treaty or agreement with those countries. If Italy and spain and the UK decided to agree with the French and German governments and refused to allow strikes to be launched from those bases they would simply not be used.What gets all of our backs up is the arrogant manner in which you imply the US can do whatever it likes.You have what seems to me either ignored your history lessons or simply choose not to see how obsurd your statement was.
Just for instance lets say the UK said no to launches on iraq from UK. what would you say would happen?
I say your bases in UK wold not be used.You obviously think somehow the US would just use them regardless?.
this is the point being made. Not anything more than basically:
'Martlet that was a dumb statement'
All i see is you trying your best to not admit it. 'I only meant US bases' etc is you doing exactly what you accused dowding of doing.
Sure you guys can apply pressure in political ways or financial but you simply cannot just do whatever the hell you like from whatever base you have and neither for that matter can any other country. Naso im aware of treaties etc and i agree you are correct. Legally speaking the US have the right to use their bases as they see fit but what im saying is they will ultimately bow to whatever public opinion is shown in those regions, same as all of us.They just have a bit more financial clout to try to force an issue.
Forgive me but I was of the opinion that if there was EVER a country that bows to a public opinion over a conflict its the US.
Look at vietnam and somalia. The USA COULD blow the crap outta those countries but they wont will they? Its this basic knowledge that makes martlets 'we can do whatever we like' crap so infantile.
I see that I didn't say "US bases", but it WAS what I meant. Obviously, the US can't just storm into another country and use their bases.
And you are right, most bases were originally granted under treaty, or some similar agreement. For example, perhaps you participated in aggression against the rest of the world, and you got your butt kicked. We'll drop a base or 2 smack in the middle of your country. Bugger off if you don't like it.
And you are right about america not wanting to go against the will of a host nation. We will rarely dishonor the wishes of a country in which we have a base. It creates far more trouble than its worth. My point was in response to (and I can't even remember who said it now, but it's in this thread) someone saying that "Italy forbid the US from using their airspace to launch attacks.....blah blah blah......well, they did anyway, but we sure are mad about it". I simply said we'll do what we want, as we did in that case.
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I did it Martlet. And Italy actually *is* forbidding US from launching air strikes from Italian bases. You are allowed only to send men and stuff. Remember it.
I know you would like to do what you *want* and not what you *can*. Sorry.
Your behaviour and arrogance is exactly what piss off friends and allies of your great country.
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Originally posted by gatt
I did it Martlet. And Italy actually *is* forbidding US from launching air strikes from Italian bases. You are allowed only to send men and stuff. Remember it.
I know you would like to do what you *want* and not what you *can*. Sorry.
Your behaviour and arrogance is exactly what piss off friends and allies of your great country.
In your own post, you said Italy *is* forbidding US from launching airstrikes from Italian bases, and then, in the same post, said we *did* do it anyway.
So apparently what we *want* and what we *can* are the same thing, and there is buttall you can do about it.
Your behavior and attitude is exactly why my great country doesn't care if it pisses some friends and allies off.
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I know english is not my mother tongue but plz reread what I wrote. Is sending paras an airstrike? USA sent paras from an italian base. This could be seen as a support operation or as a military operation, it depends on your POV, but hardly as an air strike. Anyway, I dont care.
Sorry man, actually you cannot manage Europe like a south american dictatorship. Even allied and friendly countries like Italy. I know it is hard to understand for you armchair general, but eventually you'll realize it :)
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Originally posted by straffo
si tu y va j'y vais !
Et je te loge à la maison (il y a 1 à 2 heures de routes à peine)
Merci par l'invitation, c'est trés gentile :)
Je dois trouver 5 copains pour faire le vol accessible (je pensais y aller avec une des bimoteurs du club). L'instant que je sais quelque chose sûre, je toi fairé savoir.
Daniel
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Originally posted by gatt
I know english is not my mother tongue but plz reread what I wrote. Is sending paras an airstrike? USA sent paras from an italian base. This could be seen as a support operation or as a military operation, it depends on your POV, but hardly as an air strike. Anyway, I dont care.
Sorry man, actually you cannot manage Europe like a south american dictatorship. Even allied and friendly countries like Italy. I know it is hard to understand for you armchair general, but eventually you'll realize it :)
Only in Italy would 1000 paras being dropped on the enemy in a time of war be considered a support operation.
Additionally, we aren't managing Europe at all. Only our military bases. We like Italy, too. Never did I imply we didn't. We like the vast majority of Europeans, both personally and politically. It is very rare that we use one of our bases for something that would tick the host country off. We don't want to cause problems there. However, we refuse to put our selves at risk just to make someone happy.
Armchair general? Ask someone with a better understanding of English explain to you what that means, then pick a more fitting insult.
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Merci par l'invitation, c'est trés gentile :)
Je dois trouver 5 copains pour faire le vol accessible (je pensais y aller avec une des bimoteurs du club). L'instant que je sais quelque chose sûre, je toi fairé savoir.
Daniel
J'irai aussi. :D
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6 personnes ?
Ca va se terminer en camping ;)
avec un manque de voitures pour y aller ... (c'est pas insurmontable)
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Originally posted by straffo
6 personnes ?
Ca va se terminer en camping ;)
avec un manque de voitures pour y aller ... (c'est pas insurmontable)
Je comprends. Vous pouvez juste me dire vous ne voulez pas que j'aille. Mon Français est ainsi le mauvais, je ne pourrais pas comprendre de toute façon.
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Pas de probleme pour moi .
Par contre tu risque d'avoir un probleme de budget ;)
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Originally posted by straffo
Pas de probleme pour moi .
Par contre tu risque d'avoir un probleme de budget ;)
Je suis riche. Je payerai chacun!
Je souhaite.
En fait, je projetterai un voyage en Europe bientôt.
-
So apparently what we *want* and what we *can* are the same thing, and there is buttall you can do about it.
Only in Italy would 1000 paras being dropped on the enemy in a time of war be considered a support operation
Well martlet, you qualify yourself pretty well. Theres no need for me and my poor english to do it :D
P.S.: "Armchair general" it is not an insult IIRC. Nor it was meant as an insult. It just describes you playing Rambo, in front of a keyboard and with a joystick in your hands, moving divisions and launching air strikes from italian bases :D
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Originally posted by Martlet
Only in Italy would 1000 paras being dropped on the enemy in a time of war be considered a support operation.
In fact there a lot of discussion between left and right about it, with the left saying it was a combat movement, while the right is saying the paras where moved to a non-combat place (Kurdistan), and then moved to the combat zone (politicians, lol)
Additionally, we aren't managing Europe at all. Only our military bases. We like Italy, too. Never did I imply we didn't. We like the vast majority of Europeans, both personally and politically. It is very rare that we use one of our bases for something that would tick the host country off. We don't want to cause problems there. However, we refuse to put our selves at risk just to make someone happy.
You keep failing the point, you MUST respect the pacts you have with the nation, OR BREACK it, it's not a question of making someone happy.
In our country, you must warn the Italian base commander of your movements, to be AUTHORIZED.
Check beginning of '80s when Craxi was Prime minister here, something happened in Sigonella, inside the base, when we risked a firing confront.
( to the Carabinieri and their courage).
Armchair general? Ask someone with a better understanding of English explain to you what that means, then pick a more fitting insult.
Big mouth?
Maybe is better?
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There is no "Italian Commander" of a US base, in the sense that he is the commander of that base.
There are several liasson there, and we do consult with them. We do try to get approval before we do something, but it's hardly "permission". Big difference between the two.
I know I'm a big mouth, no news there.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Je suis riche. Je payerai chacun!
Je souhaite.
En fait, je projetterai un voyage en Europe bientôt.
Pas de probleme je te ferais visiter la Normandie et les plages du débarquement.
En fait j'ai déja tout planifié pour une visite future de Ripsnort ... et ce depuis des mois :)
Si tu viens avant on pourra vérifer que le programme marche bien ;)
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Originally posted by straffo
Pas de probleme je te ferais visiter la Normandie et les plages du débarquement.
En fait j'ai déja tout planifié pour une visite future de Ripsnort ... et ce depuis des mois :)
Si tu viens avant on pourra vérifer que le programme marche bien ;)
Je ne me pense pas ai compris tout exactement.
Je voudrais visiter la Normandie, mais je ne suis pas sûr au lequel les pays je rendront visite encore. Est-il difficile de voyager d'Angleterre en France? Est-ce que vous pouvez devriez prendre le tunnel, ou vous voler?
Quand Ripsnort arrive-t-il?
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Originally posted by straffo
Pas de probleme je te ferais visiter la Normandie et les plages du débarquement.
En fait j'ai déja tout planifié pour une visite future de Ripsnort ... et ce depuis des mois :)
Si tu viens avant on pourra vérifer que le programme marche bien ;)
Je voudrai aussi visitér Normandie en future, si tu veux etre mon guije.
Et on peux allér visiter Anzio et Salerno, aussi, ou Cassino.
:)
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very nice french martelo.......easy to understand too:D
not bad at all....
A french bash fest changed to an argrument over Italy.....
whats this board coming too..... :o
I'm leaving that way--------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Originally posted by SLO
very nice french martelo.......easy to understand too:D
not bad at all....
A french bash fest changed to an argrument over Italy.....
whats this board coming too..... :o
I'm leaving that way--------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I can't tell if you are serious or not.
I grew up in Maine, and learned my french from the French Canadians.
I know it is very bad, and I'm not sure if it is different from the French spoken in France.
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Well , using the tunnel I'm at about 4/5 hours drive from London.
You can use Easyjet it will be a one hour trip from london to Paris and then either 2 hour train or 2 hour car.
Concerning Ripsnort I dunno when he will come here.
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Originally posted by Martlet
There is no "Italian Commander" of a US base, in the sense that he is the commander of that base.
There are several liasson there, and we do consult with them. We do try to get approval before we do something, but it's hardly "permission". Big difference between the two.
Looking to the part of the threaty signed in '54 that leaked after the Cermis "accident" :rolleyes:, there IS an Italian commander, AND an US commander who have "command on operation, personnel, and gestion of the base", the only role of the Italian commander is to control the compliance of the said operations with the rules of the Italian nation.
As happened in Sigonella, the no approval implyied the deniance of the "permission".
But keep playing with the words, just to not admit that you have exceeded in arrogance in the first post of this serie.
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Originally posted by Naso
Je voudrai aussi visitér Normandie en future, si tu veux etre mon guije.
Et on peux allér visiter Anzio et Salerno, aussi, ou Cassino.
:)
Yeepee !
We can make a deal :)
Don't bother Martlet your french is good enought to be fully understood (some sentences are strange ... but look at my posts for stranges english structuration :p)
And I've seen native French writing french badly than you.
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Originally posted by Naso
Looking to the part of the threaty signed in '54 that leaked after the Cermis "accident" :rolleyes:, there IS an Italian commander, AND an US commander who have "command on operation, personnel, and gestion of the base", the only role of the Italian commander is to control the compliance of the said operations with the rules of the Italian nation.
As happened in Sigonella, the no approval implyied the deniance of the "permission".
But keep playing with the words, just to not admit that you have exceeded in arrogance in the first post of this serie.
Link please.
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Normandie ... lovely country :) I've been there and seen everything about the D-Day many years ago.
The US cemetery near the shore is very touching. Same thing I feel everytime I drive near the Anzio and Cassino ones and think about what I've read in Carlo D'Este's "Fatal decision" (Anzio and Cassino Battles).
And Bretagne as well, I've many friends there. Great sailors, tough indeed.
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opss its martlet not martelo....sorry.
and I was serious....your french is really not bad at all...like straffo said...just the structure thats a little wierd...always hard writing down what you wanna say..... for the effort.
just like the Limeys English is different from the American English....the same applies too French from France and the French from Quebec....
actually the French from France talk so fast there really hard to understand...it takes time even if I am French:p
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Originally posted by Martlet
Link please.
Here is the link on a scanning of the memorandum of 1995, with references to the threaty of 1954.
http://www.repubblica.it/online/speciale/shell/uno/uno.html
In other places there are parts of the original threaty.
For english informations, I guess something can be found in pentagon's site.
(http://www.4stormo.it/public_archive/09.gif)
I want to point the attention on the "uso esclusivo" part, at the beginning of this page, where it say:
"The attribution of "exclusive use" to installations and structures utilized by US forces, does'nt limit in any way the exercise of the sovereign of the Italian State, as what extablished by the NATO/SOFA [threaty] Art. VII."
In the following page, it clearly states that:
"the installation is under Italian command..."
(http://www.4stormo.it/public_archive/10.gif)
There must be somewhere the english version (was realized in both languages), but i did'nt found it on this site.
P.S.
Oh my God!!
I am transorming in a new (but nicer) Toad!! :eek:
;) :)
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well... it seems that with that many people in a country that are against the cruel invasion by American imperialists.... why can't france sent a few thousand troops to iraq to help fight for the benevolent and kind sadman regime?
I mean... sending weapons is ok but... if they were really idealistic and moral they would be sending troops.
otherwise they just look like envious children who have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar and are afraid of punishment.
lazs
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Uh, Oh, the Holiday from the usual Iraqi-war flamefest is finished.
:D ;)
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Anyway, Martlet, if you will come here to visit me (I hope you are not the type:"I will never drink with you if you not agree with me"" ;) ), maybe (hopefully) with Straffo, I have an "exclusive US base" couple Kms near my house, where I can show you how all this translate in "the real world"(tm).
:)
Well, the moment is not the best to hang around a military US installation, but I can explain and justify to the Italian Carabinieri in full military asset that are providing the external protection to the base, and you to the MP that is doing the same internally. :)
Just if you have lost the sight on the fact that we are allied inside the NATO threaty. ;)
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Martlet, where are you???
Running away?
:D
;)