Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on April 02, 2003, 02:23:10 PM
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What kind of message must this send to our enemies and potential enemies?
1. We will stage a medium sized offensive as a cover!
2. We will coordinate up to 4 different branches of our military within 24 hours and come up with a plan.
3. We will send in our top troops including SEALS, Rangers and Special Ops Air Forces to snatch ONE soldier.
4. We will also take the time and risk to save the dead bodies of 11 other soldiers while we're at it.
DAM! Are we awesome or what?
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The Iraqui officials must be so steaming mad :)
I bet they were planning on using her as a bargaining chip later on in the war.
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Midnight
I am a firm believer of noone gets left behind, I think it shows our resolve in this conflict.
The other incident that come to mind is the F-16 pilot shot down over bosnia we went in and got him too.
Somolia as well, the rescue there was a huge effort.
America's Armed Forces
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They probably already were using her, in unspeakable acts. She's a hottie and I feel for the pain she must have been going thru.
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the coordination not that big a deal. the USAF special operation helo guys train with all the army and navy and marine operators during workups. and the rangers train for that component of mission all the time. you can plug any group of snatchers in you want dont change the rangers job in the situation. dunno about the offensive being cover wasnt the front line not too far from hospital? sounds like they got a suprise present in form of credible info on pow. once they make call info credible the assault and rescue guys are on call waiting for some kind of mission. make the go call, collect info on the target and area of op, brief, run thru, and go.
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Originally posted by Dingbat
They probably already were using her, in unspeakable acts. She's a hottie and I feel for the pain she must have been going thru.
Lets give them the benefit of doubt and wait for what she has to say.
I have never heard or read reports of Iraqui soldiers raping female POW.
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I posted a link in one of the other many POW threads relating to the sexual abuse.
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compared to the iraqi regular army
1) who is dressed in rags and gets shot in the back of the head if they do not attack.
2) who kill their own soldiers so they can lay blame on the enemy.
I can't begin to imagine what it must look like to people in those conditions.
You are right, it is pretty amazing, even non-comparatively speaking.
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Originally posted by Dingbat
I posted a link in one of the other many POW threads relating to the sexual abuse.
Well, can you link it here?
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I wonder if they would have attempted a rescue like that for a male soldier?
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Originally posted by Airhead
I wonder if they would have attempted a rescue like that for a male soldier?
Dont tell me you have vagina envy...
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Rumsfeld: "War ain't going so well!"
Bush: "hmm we're getting bogged down..media playing up the negative stuff!"
Rumsfeld: "We need a PR coup! Something for the folks back home to feel good about!"
Franks: "Well....we've got some intel on a possible POW still alive"
Rumsfeld: "POW..hmm...beat up guys on TV don't look so good"
Franks: "Actually it's a 19 your old hot chick..."
Bush/Rumsfield: "All units GO GO GO!"
*please note, I fully support the war. You don't need to speak with a german accent to be a nazi.
three times. Different each time!
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I'm just curious if her gender influenced the decision to attempt a rescue. If so then it validates my arguments opposing women soldiers in war zones. At any rate the first question everyone has is if she was raped or not.
It's a miracle we got her out, and Thank God for that, but looking at her picture in a stretcher suffering from multiple broken bones, gunshot wounds and a weeks' worth of torture I can find no valid justification for sending our daughters into combat zones. That she was ever put in harms' way is a disgrace.
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If you all are so upset we went to this trouble to rescue her, I suppose we could just put her back.
:rolleyes:
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Actually I think the first question is where are the rest of the POWs...why did they only find one alive?
They have been rescuing POW's in all wars, but now that it's a female you wonder if they rescued her because of her gender?
I figure you must be joking.
Originally posted by Airhead
I'm just curious if her gender influenced the decision to attempt a rescue. If so then it validates my arguments opposing women soldiers in war zones. At any rate the first question everyone has is if she was raped or not.
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Originally posted by Animal
I have never heard or read reports of Iraqui soldiers raping female POW.
You have now....
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/heroes/cornum.htm
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I'm just curious if her gender influenced the decision to attempt a rescue. If so then it validates my arguments opposing women soldiers in war zones.
couldn't agree more,
it's not about the ability of the women..
it's about the nature of how men will act ..
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
You have now....
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/heroes/cornum.htm
That article only reinforces my stance that women should always be allowed to serve in the military.
No freedom loving American should be denied the choice of fighting for his or her country
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
You have now....
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/heroes/cornum.htm
Thanks Rip, Saves me the trouble of doing the search again :D
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
couldn't agree more,
it's not about the ability of the women..
it's about the nature of how men will act ..
Ya know those sodoms will rape men pows too.
Anyway she has broke arms and legs and I bet those bastards did it after she was captured. I think when her story is told sh t
is gonna hit the fan.
Oh right, it already did...
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Ya know those sodoms will rape men pows too.
true, but besides the point.
having men on the front lines doesn't affect other men,
having women on the front does.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
true, but besides the point.
having men on the front lines doesn't affect other men,
having women on the front does.
simple, those men do not belong there.
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From the article Rip posted----
Five of the eight crew members did die. Cornum survived-only to be captured by Iraqi soldiers and held eight days as one of the Gulf War's 23 pows. Few who know the wiry, iron-willed doctor with the golden-green eyes are surprised she survived both ordeals. "I felt sorry for the Iraqis who captured her," says former supervisor Maj. Gen. John Ryneska. But she didn't have an easy time. Cornum broke both arms, shattered her knee, and took a bullet in her right shoulder. An Iraqi guard sexually assaulted her. Repeatedly interrogated, she refused to reveal classified information.
Cornum's stalwart conduct helped reshape the debate on women in the military. The possibility of capture was often cited to keep women out of combat. "This was a validation that if women are in combat and something like this happens," says retired Air Force Brig. Gen. Wilma Vaught, "they do have the strength, the stamina, the mental courage to meet the demands." After Cornum testified about her experience in 1992, many combat posts were opened to women.
Looks like this makes a great argument for women in combat.
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Originally posted by Dune
If you all are so upset we went to this trouble to rescue her, I suppose we could just put her back.
:rolleyes:
No, I'm thrilled we got her back- I'm upset she was there in the first place. If we went through any extra efforts to rescue her then it substiantates my point in another thread- women have no place in a combat zone. Not only does their presence put an added stress on their male counterparts, but in my opinion it goes against a basic law of nature.
I understand recognizing the physical and mental differences between men and women isn't politically correct and I understand prohibiting women from serving in combat zones isn't fair- but our number one concern should be that we present fighting units free of distractions and focused on their missions.
Women in combat zones are a distraction at best and an anchor at worst. It's a national disgrace we've allowed women to be killed and captured in Iraq.
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I have read SOP and other Special forces stuff...
They are truly badmthfkrs....The best in the world..
It will be very interexsting to read this stuff in 20 years..
Hopefully we contain the WMDs before **** really hits...
On that note..what woudl or could we do if those scum of the oil fields do use vx and other crap ?
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I think its a shining endorsment for the war fighing capabilities of the US military. Would they have done the same for a male soldier. Yes definalty..would it have been as big a deal in the press..probebly ..who knows.
But to have the intel and capability to perform the mission is bad news for the Iraqis. And they will know it.
The success of this operation helped put some more awe back in shock and awe.
well done. This war is not mogadishu.
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Just another glaring setback for the mercinary invaders in their doomed war on the peaceful people of iraq.
:D
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We know PFC (she was a Private First Class, right?) Lynch was captured with other men.
They're all dead AFAIK.
I can't help but wonder if they weren't killed for acting out against their actors for her sake- being that they were torturing her/raping her, they tried to put an end to it- lost their lives for it.
I'm not saying anything yet... but if that's the case, then it would prove what had been said in that previous thread (Women In War).
Now, that said- how many times were rescue operations of this magnititude launched for a private first class in previous wars?
I know officers and pilots were high priority, but privates?
Now before you get all upity, I'm basing this on past wars and that I've never heard of a rescue op for just one private.
-SW
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Is there evidence that she was tortured or raped? Honestly haven't heard that confirmed yet.
Not that it would matter. Male or female, a soldier has been rescued.. We can sort out the BS later.
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The thing that sends shivers up my spine is her age.
Gods, why do we send kids to do the fighting? No one under 25 should be in a combat zone..or near one imo. :(
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No, it hasn't... actually I ran that article on Cornum together with Lynch's case by mistake.
-SW
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I wonder if they would have rescued her if she weren't a hottie? I'll bet if she were fat and ugly she'd still be a POW.
I'm just kidding, not trolling.
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MSNBC just reported that Marshall University is giving Jessica a 4 year scholarship.
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Target,,thts kik ass
and why do we send very yopung folks in..Cause they have not had any if at all near death expericnes..
ITS very hard to send a majority of the older folks into a very Deadly area..
Hell dont you read history books....Read about ww2 Bomer crews...Young..young...hell almost all the soldiers were..
The average age of infantry was 19yrs old in vietnam.
they heal quiker..more flexiable..and a certain invinciblity at younger age. As you learn more..you say..HOLY SHEAT..i aint doin that sht!!
Im 29..I feel pretty good that i would satnd side by side with our boys. i will kill alot of peopl who threatn our nation and familys/kids/moms/sisters/grandparents...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
MSNBC just reported that Marshall University is giving Jessica a 4 year scholarship.
I don't know if she'll need the money MT because she'll sign a Made for TV Movie Deal worth millions. No doubt there'll be plenty of shots of Jessica tied to a bed in her underwear as she's tortured by an Iraqi soldier. I understand they wanted Kierstn Dunst to play Jessica, but she's busy with another made-for-television saga- "The Elizabeth Smart Story."
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I know there are a gazillion reasons to send kids in, but im willing to bet all of them are in the best interest of other than theirs.
Still, it depresses me to see that in a "controlled" conflict (not a WW2 like total war scenario), they send them in.
Dunno, maybe have the forces grouped by ages so when somethign like this comes up they can have 25+ years old sent out while the younger ones remain training or something. Im no uberexpert on this stuff, maybe im leaning to the nickelodeon world as that iraqui fella bashed an airheaded girl on radio... it just aint right in my book :P
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
and why do we send very yopung folks in..Cause they have not had any if at all near death expericnes
dunno about this. i cant speak for army infantry but average age in special operations is fairly high. also age dont mean much in a combat unit. you can have a 20 year old that handles himself better under pressure than a 28 year old. in general id say you arent going to have someone who cant handle themselves as part of modern American combat unit. you guys need to remember that things went very wrong in terms of intended use the moment these maintanence people got fired upon by rifles. big big difference between combat troops and non combat troops.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
2. We will coordinate up to 4 different branches of our military within 24 hours and come up with a plan.
3. We will send in our top troops including SEALS, Rangers and Special Ops Air Forces to snatch ONE soldier.
some details for you midnight target. planning time was over 48 hours. Marines, Rangers, and SEALs involved.
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I believe all jar heads are supposed to be combat first, all the rest is secondary.
Heard she was about 2 months out of boot camp when she got sent over and never had any "O-**** I've been captured" classes. That really bites as she probably was in no way prepared for her ordeal.
On another note, she may have survived because she's from Palestine...who knows.
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Oh yeah, I also noted there was no talk of us taking ANY prisoners in the op.
That speaks volumes to any present and future people taking any of ours prisoner.
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Originally posted by Lizard3
I believe all jar heads are supposed to be combat first, all the rest is secondary.
Heard she was about 2 months out of boot camp when she got sent over and never had any "O-**** I've been captured" classes. That really bites as she probably was in no way prepared for her ordeal.
shes army no USMC. also not everyone go SERE training. aircrew, special operations, others with good chance of being behind enemy lines go SERE.
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Originally posted by Lizard3
Oh yeah, I also noted there was no talk of us taking ANY prisoners in the op.
That speaks volumes to any present and future people taking any of ours prisoner.
prisoners valuable usually. if prisoners not option reason is usually limited space for people on extraction or not enough manpower to secure prisoners. it seems like they had plenty of both. whered you hear the no prisoners report?
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Just another glaring setback for the mercinary invaders in their doomed war on the peaceful people of iraq.
:D
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Originally posted by anonymous
prisoners valuable usually. if prisoners not option reason is usually limited space for people on extraction or not enough manpower to secure prisoners. it seems like they had plenty of both. whered you hear the no prisoners report?
Oh, I didn't hear a report of no prisoners. I heard they got her and 11 bodies. They never mentioned prisoners and I think maybe they would've if they'd gotten any.
And your exactly right, I goofed the jar head thing. I guess I just like saying....Jar HEAD! (that from a squid no less)
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I think she killed them all herself because she was tired of their endless speculation.
but I won't say anything more about that till we know the truth.
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I can't help but wonder if they weren't killed for acting out against their actors for her sake- being that they were torturing her/raping her, they tried to put an end to it- lost their lives for it.
-SW
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it said on the news that her location was reported to u.s. troops by iraqis, they told them the room # where she was being held and tortured. it was rather close to the front lines. usually they have to move fast on that kind of info. i dont think her being a young woman had anything to do with it. she was just reachable.
bigsky
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Originally posted by OIO
Gods, why do we send kids to do the fighting? No one under 25 should be in a combat zone..or near one imo. :(
It's been that way for many, many years. Like forever.
What do you think the average age of GI's was during WW2?
WW1?
The Civil War?
Etc...
-Smut
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Originally posted by Lizard3
I believe all jar heads are supposed to be combat first, all the rest is secondary.
Heard she was about 2 months out of boot camp when she got sent over and never had any "O-**** I've been captured" classes. That really bites as she probably was in no way prepared for her ordeal.
On another note, she may have survived because she's from Palestine...who knows.
Err...
She was USA, not USMC.
She had just re-enlisted for four years, so it is unlikely she was a raw recruit.
She is from Palestine, WEST VIRGINIA...not the middle east.
-Smut
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Originally posted by Smut
Err...
She was USA, not USMC.
She had just re-enlisted for four years, so it is unlikely she was a raw recruit.
She is from Palestine, WEST VIRGINIA...not the middle east.
-Smut
She was 19, she couldn't have re enlisted for 4 more years. The closest she could have come to a re enlistment was prior national guard, if she had her parents sign for her when she was 17, and then it wouldn't be a re enlistment, but a switch to active duty.
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Originally posted by Martlet
She was 19, she couldn't have re enlisted for 4 more years. The closest she could have come to a re enlistment was prior national guard, if she had her parents sign for her when she was 17, and then it wouldn't be a re enlistment, but a switch to active duty.
Doesn't the Army still have two year enlistments? She enlisted in 2001, according to this article (good read BTW, this girl is a fighter):
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82923,00.html
I can't find a link to the article that said she had just reenlisted for four more years...I don't have the time to sift through all the articles goggle links to. I am pretty sure that is what I saw though.
-Smut
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the latest i've read......
she wouldn't go down easy.....
she fired her weapon till it was empty.....she fought hard....thats the latest intell....errr news
2 broken legs...1 broken arm....SHOT....STABBED.
no matter what you say.....that young women is very courageous.
to the special ops groups a big WTG
no matter what army your in....thats the kind of special ops you want....at least ya got SOME future prospect of getting recued if your a POW.....
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Heard the same... they say she even got a few. The girls gonna get a medal other than a Purple Heart.
WTFG Jessica.
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Yep I read that too, she is one hell of a soldier.
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It's all wonderful news that she's ok, and that she fought bravely. However, I can understand some of the concerns about women in combat zones. Look at how the media has latched onto this. Look at all the offers she is getting to pay for her college, and one of them is from the state government of West Virginia itself. You think any male POWs that make it back alive will get any comparable offers? I very seriously doubt it (hopefully I'm proven wrong). That shows that she's deserving of preferential treatment because she's a female. That's ok, but if that's the case, she should be in a combat zone?
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Nifty.....
I understand what ya tryin to say....do I agree...hmm no.....russian women in WW2 proved they could fight....and fight they did.....
my only concern would be...during real life combat how would she react.
she stood up and FOUGHT.....my only concern was answered.
in my book she's a mean squeak(ina good way:D )
nuff said
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She was 19, she couldn't have re enlisted for 4 more years. The closest she could have come to a re enlistment was prior national guard, if she had her parents sign for her when she was 17, and then it wouldn't be a re enlistment, but a switch to active duty.
Martlet not true there Bud. I enlisted into the Regular Army, Active Duty at the age of 17. No Reserve time or National Guard time.
Retired at 37.
:D
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I am not saying she can't fight, or that women in general can't fight. That's not the issue. The issue is do they get preferential treatment (from the military or from civilians) because they are females in a combat zone. If that answer is yes (and it looks like it is based off of this story) then does that compromise in any way our military? Whether it be at a global level, war level, battle level or even an individual level. That's what most people in this thread are talking about with respect to women in the military, not that they can't or wouldn't be willing to fight and die for their country.
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She'll be posing in Playboy in six months wearing a camo G-string and caressing an M-16. You watch.