Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on April 04, 2003, 07:01:49 AM
-
AP
3rd Inf Div soldiers are wearing protective suits around the clock now after the discovery of a stock of what is believed to be chemical or biological weapons.
Thousands of crates have been found in an industrial area south of Baghdad (must be baby milk powder). The finding is labled as "suspect". Each crate contains three separate containers containing a white powder. (LOL my translation...sorry for that sentence.)
-
Watch it be gold medal flour for a late april fools :)
Seriously, I hope they find something.
-
Better english here:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0cv=CB10
-
FoxNews and CNN reported the atropine is from France.
Hmmmm.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
AP
3rd Inf Div soldiers are wearing protective suits around the clock now after the discovery of a stock of what is believed to be chemical or biological weapons.
Thousands of crates have been found in an industrial area south of Baghdad (must be baby milk powder). The finding is labled as "suspect". Each crate contains three separate containers containing a white powder. (LOL my translation...sorry for that sentence.)
Yeah Hortlund, I've been watching this for awhile on FOX.
I'm positive that the white powder is a super refined baby powder that Iraqi scientists have been developing.
-
What about doing a little search on this marvelous tool internet is ?
Ethyl centralite
http://www.main.co.il/mainweb/products1/fine/ethyl-centralite.asp
Appearance : White to light grey crystalline powder
STORAGE AND HANDLING
Should be kept in well-closed containers, in a cool, shaded area, away from open fire and water. When heated to decomposition (over 325°C) emits toxic gases. Personal safety equipment should be used while handling.
Usage of atropine :
Atropine a naturally occurring alkaloid of "atropa belladonna", is a competitive antagonist of muscarinic cholinergic receptors. It is absorbed from the gastro-intestinal tract, and is excreted in the urine. Atropine undergoes hepatic metabolism and has a plasma half-life of 2-3 hours. Atropine ampoules should be stored away from light and never be frozen.
Uses: When used as premedication for anaesthesia, atropine decreases bronchial and salivary secretions, blocks the bradycardia associated with some drugs used in anaesthesia such as halothane, suxamethonium and neostigmine, and also helps prevent bradycardia from excessive vagal stimulation.
Dose and Administration: Around 500-600mcg are used as a premedication in adults administered intramuscularly 30-60 minutes before surgery. Alternatively it may be given intravenously at induction of anaesthesia. Children should receive 20mcg/kg.
When used to treat bradycardias 250-500mcg is generally effective in adults whilst children should receive 10-20mcg/kg.
During reversal of neuromuscular blockade in adults 1 - 1.2mg of atropine is given mixed with 2.5-5mg neostigmine.
Main effects: There is usually an increase in heart rate and sometimes a tachycardia as well as inhibition of secretions (causing a dry mouth) and relaxation of smooth muscle in the gut, urinary tract and biliary tree. Since atropine crosses the blood brain barrier CNS effects in the elderly may include amnesia, confusion and excitation. Pupillary dilatation and paralysis of accommodation occur, with an increase in intraocular pressure especially in patients with glaucoma. Occasionally small intravenous doses may be accompanied by slowing of the heart rate due to a central effect - this resolves with an extra increment of intravenous atropine.
Cautions: Avoid large doses of atropine in the elderly. Glycopyrrolate, which does not cross the blood brain barrier, is not associated with CNS excitability but is more expensive and less effective for treating bradycardias. Atropine should be avoided when possible in febrile children as the body temperature may be further increased, particularly in places with a high environmental temperature.
Adverse effects: Being a sympathetic cholinergic blocking agent, signs of parasympathetic block may occur such as dryness of the mouth, blurred vision, increased intraocular tension and urinary retention.
-
straffo,
Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
straffo,
Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Martlet, what Straffo is trying to say is that he has already identified the white powder found in thousands of boxes, 3 viles per box. Straffo has demostrated that the internet is the main source of current and accurate information regarding this recent discovery.
-
I'll summarize for you:
1) The mysterious white powder might be Centralite, an explosives precursor - which is known to made at the facility
2) Atropine has many uses, such as premedication for anaesthesia
Clear enough for you?
I'm not saying this isn't a 'smoking gun'. But there are alternative, credible explanations - let's wait for the lab tests.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Martlet, what Straffo is trying to say is that he has already identified the white powder found in thousands of boxes, 3 viles per box. Straffo has demostrated that the internet is the main source of current and accurate information regarding the recent discovery.
ahhh, thanks.
Is this confirmed, or is it what you think this is, Sraffo?
-
Originally posted by Dowding
I'll summarize for you:
1) The mysterious white powder might be Centralite, an explosives precuror - which is known to made at the facility
2) Atropine has many uses, such as premedication for anaesthesia
Clear enough for you?
I'm not saying this isn't a 'smoking gun'. But there are alternative, credible explanations - let's wait for the lab tests.
yes, clear enough for me. I honestly didn't know what he meant.
While atropine has many uses, I don't think it is a far stretch to assume they collect it to counter a nerve agent.
I'm guessing they don't administer atropine through an injector when used as a premedication for anaesthesia.
-
well ...
Fact one :
The US troop found a suspect white power in a plant producing Centralite...
Fact two :
Centralite is a White to light grey crystalline powder
Fact Three :
Centralite emits toxic gases over 325° ( in a plant producing Explosive the risk of fire is very hight)
Fact four :
Personal safety equipment should be used
Fact Five :
Atropine can be used as a medication in some emergency case (I guess that each coalition soldier has atropine in his package in case of intoxication by a neuro-toxic)
And the gaz emitted by Centralite is perhaps a neuro-toxic (I dunno)
Conclusion : until further analysis of the real nature of the product it's hightly probable it's centralite ...
I don't know when was the last UN inspection of this site ...
-
I do believe Saddam has been making and hiding chemical and biological weapons. But I'm starting to believe he's destroyed it very recently - he's counting on the international community pressurizing the coalition into going home.
-
I don't know when was the last UN inspection of this site ...
Feb. 18th this year, Straffo.
-
Originally posted by straffo
well ...
Fact one :
The US troop found a suspect white power in a plant producing Centralite...
Fact two :
Centralite is a White to light grey crystalline powder
Fact Three :
Centralite emits toxic gases over 325° ( in a plant producing Explosive the risk of fire is very hight)
Fact four :
Personal safety equipment should be used
Fact Five :
Atropine can be used as a medication in some emergency case (I guess that each coalition soldier has atropine in his package in case of intoxication by a neuro-toxic)
And the gaz emitted by Centralite is perhaps a neuro-toxic (I dunno)
Conclusion : until further analysis of the real nature of the product it's hightly probable it's centralite ...
I don't know when was the last UN inspection of this site ...
Is Centralite stored in viles, 3 per box?
Straffo, I just found some clear liquid in a jar..... can you tell me what the liquid is? Maybe I'll search the internet.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Martlet, what Straffo is trying to say is that he has already identified the white powder found in thousands of boxes, 3 viles per box. Straffo has demostrated that the internet is the main source of current and accurate information regarding this recent discovery.
I demonstrated that using a tool you can form your own opinion without having to be feed by a network with "pre-salived" information.
Now if you don't want to make any sort of research it your problem not mine.
I would like to point that my conclusion is :
it's probably centralite but we won't now until complete analysis and all precaution should be done with a product of unknown nature.
-
Originally posted by straffo
I demonstrated that using a tool you can form your own opinion without having to be feed by a network with "pre-salived" information.
Now if you don't want to make any sort of research it your problem not mine.
I would like to point that my conclusion is :
it's probably centralite but we won't now until complete analysis and all precaution should be done with a product of unknown nature.
Hey dummy, nobody other than you has presumed to identify the substance that was found.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Is Centralite stored in viles, 3 per box?
Straffo, I just found some clear liquid in a jar..... can you tell me what the liquid is? Maybe I'll search the internet.
Why not ?
Do you have worked with chemical product before ?
For the jar just taste it ...
If your drunk it was some sort of alcohol
If you need badly have a pee it was some sort of water or juice fruit ...
if you are dead ... well you should have been more prudent :D
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Hey dummy, nobody other than you has presumed to identify the substance that was found.
Honestly ,I never pretended I was knowing the nature of the product were did you read that ?
-
I demonstrated that using a tool you can form your own opinion without having to be feed by a network with "pre-salived" information.
the "tool" I normally use is my brain.
-
straffo is just defending the terrorists again while Dowding is defending straffoooo... biz as usual
carry on
-
Originally posted by Dowding
I do believe Saddam has been making and hiding chemical and biological weapons. But I'm starting to believe he's destroyed it very recently - he's counting on the international community pressurizing the coalition into going home.
If he has destroyed it ALL, then the US has been able to do in 2 weeks what the UN couldn't do in 12 years.
WTG!
-
Originally posted by straffo
Honestly ,I never pretended I was knowing the nature of the product were did you read that ?
Oh, other than your first post, maybe I read about your identification here
Conclusion : until further analysis of the real nature of the product it's hightly probable it's centralite
-
Originally posted by straffo
For the jar just taste it ...
If your drunk it was some sort of alcohol
If you need badly have a pee it was some sort of water or juice fruit ...
if you are dead ... well you should have been more prudent :D
ROFL! Science made simple. WTG Straffo
:)
-Sik
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Hey dummy, nobody other than you has presumed to identify the substance that was found.
It would seem (apart from Dowding, and straffo) that everyones assuming this white powder is a bio weapon would it not?
Tronsky
-
I love it when guys like Straffo make snap judgments, fail to back them up, get called on it then back-peddle like mad.
-
Originally posted by straffo
Honestly ,I never pretended I was knowing the nature of the product were did you read that ?
According to FoxNews, it would seem your assumption was correct.
-
Exactly Curval
Not to mention getting rid of a dictator that will go down as one of the bloodiest in history.
While I doubt he will catch Hitler or Stallin It sure looked like he was trying.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
straffo is just defending the terrorists again while Dowding is defending straffoooo... biz as usual
carry on
Pretty stupid comment did you bother to read my posts ?
Originally posted by NUKE
Oh, other than your first post, maybe I read about your identification here
Since when hightly problable is a formal identification ?
-
Originally posted by -tronski-
It would seem (apart from Dowding, and straffo) that everyones assuming this white powder is a bio weapon would it not?
Tronsky
No, I don't pretend to know what the powder is
-
Originally posted by NUKE
I love it when guys like Straffo make snap judgments, fail to back them up, get called on it then back-peddle like mad.
I backed each of my posts when linked ressources
You backed none of your.
so ?
-
Originally posted by NUKE
No, I don't pretend to know what the powder is
I'm positive that the white powder is a super refined baby powder that Iraqi scientists have been developing.
really now....so you really think it would be baby powder then?
Tronsky
-
Originally posted by NUKE
the "tool" I normally use is my brain.
Uhm ...... ;) :D
-
Originally posted by straffo
Pretty stupid comment did you bother to read my posts ?
Since when hightly problable is a formal identification ?
Your first post stated that "we should do a little research" on Ethyl centralite. You implied that the powder was centralite...nobody else stated that conclusion.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Your first post stated that "we should do a little research" on Ethyl centralite. You implied that the powder was centralite...nobody else stated that conclusion.
FoxNews did.
-
Originally posted by -tronski-
really now....so you really think it would be baby powder then?
Tronsky
I never pretended to know what the powder is, unlike Straffo.
-
What a wierd thread...
I think we all need to step out and have a smoke lol.
-Sik
-
Originally posted by Martlet
FoxNews did.
I don't thing I need to post more now.
ty Martlet.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
I never pretended to know what the powder is, unlike Straffo.
Turn it up.....
Tronsky
-
Originally posted by straffo
I don't thing I need to post more now.
ty Martlet.
So what is the definitave indentification of the powder Straffo? I need to know.
You are going off of Martlet's word that Fox news somehow knows what the powder is? You rest your case based on 4th hand information?
LOL
I'll wait until it's identified before I pretend to know what it is.
-
I know for sure that a journalist of Fox News is currently reading this BBS :D
-
Originally posted by NUKE
So what is the definitave indentification of the powder Straffo? I need to know.
You are going off of Martlet's word that Fox news somehow knows what the powder is? You rest your case based on 4th hand information?
LOL
I'll wait until it's identified before I pretend to know what it is.
I'm usually on the other side of the argument from straffo.
In this case:
straffo posted what his assumption the white powder was.
Everyone else (myself included, but I try not to post unless I have facts to back it up), thought it was chemical weapons.
I merely said FoxNews just reported the pentagon said the powder was an explosive, not a chemical weapon. And that is what they said.
You pointed out that noone else said the powder was an explosive.
I pointed out that FoxNews, in fact, said it was an explosive.
-
Originally posted by Curval
If he has destroyed it ALL, then the US has been able to do in 2 weeks what the UN couldn't do in 12 years.
WTG!
LOL Curval...I just read this
-
It's a shame.. people like straffo.. and all those "opposing" this action to get rid of saddam suck on mah nuttz, hussein.. should line up with the Rublican guard... and defend their mighty leader.
It is going to be a glorous day, when AMERICAN AND BRITISH forces are cheered for doing what we did, all the while the eurothumbtwiddler united nations oscarholes sat there and did NOTHING.
Hoorah
-
It may be cocaine, so we have the smoking gun that Saddam is linked with the columbia cartel, and is trying to pollute the US youth with that evil white snow!!
;)
-
Well, I agree that "white powder" found in vials could be many, many things. And its dumb to jump to conclusions.
But the "atropine" is used for many purposes arguement is pure bull crap. Atropine found in military grade/style injectors (single dose, auto-injecting, spring loaded containers) is only used for one thing. And that is chemical warfare. If you've ever had chemical warfare training (and yes, I have) you would know that using such devices is a brute force method to delivering an antidote and is reportedly quite painful. Not something you would use in a medical setting.
If it was intended for civilian purposes it would be in normal glass vials used for other medicines, and injected with normal syringes. Sorry Straffo, but it makes me think that your lossing perspective a little bit when you start defending things like the atropine. Questioning people's interpretation on "mysterious powder" is one thing, the atropine is totally another :(
-
I'm picturing the townsfolk in the Frankenstein Movie.......
"Its Straffo!!! Get him!!!"
LOL.... funny chit.
-
Vermillion - Straffo simply posted information about Centralite after the MSNBC report mentions the factory makes the stuff. As for the atropine, there is no mention of in what form it took, whether in bulk or in one shot applicators.
I think you, along with many other in this thread, are losing any sense of objective judgement. It's always best to wait and see with these things - all the materials are being sent to independent labs for analysis.
-
THATS WHERE MY FLOUR WENT!
-
I don't undertstand Verm ?
I've not defended anything I've just say what could have been this crates with white power and post an article about the usage of atropine nothing more than information.
I'm not the one jumping on conclusion but I think Eagler,NUKE and JoeSmoe are reading this information in a biased manner without using their "tool".
Btw JoeSmoe after reading your comment I'll ask to put your name in the top of the brain transplant list.
-
there is nothing even vaugely wrong with atropine. every military in the world has it . it had no offensive use lol.
and isnt this the second time you boys screamed chembio weapons. the first time you were half cocked and wrong after listening to the "never mind a confirmation" fox news.
hope you are this time also.
-
Just seen it confirmed on the BBC - it's official:
The white powder is Tony Blair's stash. That man's been looking more and more fried every time I've seen him over the past 6 months. Reckon he's just put in an advanced "cache" for when him & Dubya rule Iraq. The atropine is apparently just in case he OD's or if he just needs some variety and doesn't need to read anything for about 6 weeks.
-
oops ... I've just understood your post Verm...
My hypothesis was that in case of gas produced by centralite atropine can be used ...
-
Dowding, every time they have showed footage of the Atropine thats been discovered, its been in the standard military injectors. Cigar sized and shaped plastic containers, which you pull off the safety caps, and jab against your thigh in one rapid motion. It then releases a large spring loaded needle ( you would swear it was actually a ten penny nail ;) ) with enough force to pentrate both a chemical warfare suit and the standard fatigues simultaneously, and rapidly inject you with the presurrized atropine.
Straffo, maybe it was due to the language barrier. But it seemed to me that you were suggesting that atropine is a common item used in common medicine. And that the Americans and the reporters were just using its existence, and the white powder for hype. In a sense dismissing its presence as something that should not be considered significant.
And as someone else pointed out, atropine is not an offensive item. But finding large quantities of both chemical warfare suits, and atropine in many locations does tend to make me and many other suspicious. I won't even bring up the fact that many of the chemical warfare suits and atropine units found so far, were manufactured since the last gulf war, which was a definite violation of the UN Embargo on items of a military nature, and a corruption of the Oil for Food program.
-
Straffo, maybe it was due to the language barrier. But it seemed to me that you were suggesting that atropine is a common item used in common medicine. And that the Americans and the reporters were just using its existence, and the white powder for hype. In a sense dismissing its presence as something that should not be considered significant.
No ,it was not my aim I just wanted to correlate to information,doing the part no journalist will ever do ...
1st information the centralite aspect , 2nd it's toxicity when buring and 3rd the presence of Atropine.
But I can admit I was biased as last week I was in the plant of a customer producing some very dangerous product*, when discuting security with the team I was meeting they showed me their emergency equipement and among the NBC protections their was some Atropine in the very same package used by the Army or the emergency services.
* don't ask me what I've not a single idea :)
-
Originally posted by straffo
I don't undertstand Verm ?
I've not defended anything I've just say what could have been this crates with white power and post an article about the usage of atropine nothing more than information.
I'm not the one jumping on conclusion but I think Eagler,NUKE and JoeSmoe are reading this information in a biased manner without using their "tool".
Btw JoeSmoe after reading your comment I'll ask to put your name in the top of the brain transplant list.
So Straffo, if someone else wants to guess what the powder is they are just jumping to conclusions...... but you are just saying what you think it might be and that's somehow different?
By the way, you are the one who implied that the powder was Centralite. No one else even guessed what it was.
-
I'm sorry NUKE but you are wrong ,I didn't say it was centralite ,it's in the headline of the linked article :
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0cv=CB10&cp1=1
The Latifiyah Explosives and Ammunition Plant, seen here last September, is where U.S. troops found suspicious white powder. The factory is known to produce centralite, a military chemical, and U.N. inspectors had checked it out several times for weapons of mass destruction.
-
Originally posted by straffo
I'm sorry NUKE but you are wrong ,I didn't say it was centralite ,it's in the headline of the linked article :
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0cv=CB10&cp1=1
The original link on your first post had nothing to do with your last link. Nice try Straffo
-
Ethyl centralite
http://www.main.co.il/mainweb/products1/fine/ethyl-centralite.asp
Here is your original link Straffo. This was posted before any information was known other than white powder was found in thousands of boxes , 3 viles per box.
-
sorry NUKE you are wrong again it's the 3rd post of this thread :
Originally posted by Hortlund
Better english here:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0cv=CB10
it's not mine ,the day I'll pretend being Hortlund you will have to kill me to end my pain.
-
Originally posted by straffo
sorry NUKE you are wrong again it's the 3rd post of this thread :
it's not mine ,the day I'll pretend being Hortlund you will have to kill me to end my pain.
Straffo this is my last post here.
YOU are the one who jumped to conclusions as to the ID of the powder found after reading Hortlunds link. You posted a link to centraline and made assumptions based on the article you read.
You then claimed that others jumped to conclusions, when no one did but you.
-
I can't identify your problem.
-
"The Latifiyah Explosives and Ammunition Plant, seen here last September, is where U.S. troops found suspicious white powder. The factory is known to produce centralite, a military chemical, and U.N. inspectors had checked it out several times for weapons of mass destruction."
from straffs post
he said that a white powder that was in a plant known to produce centralite, packaged like centralite. is probably centralite. how do you figgure it was jumping to conclusions?
sour grapes more like.