Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: brady on April 05, 2003, 05:04:11 AM
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I PAY to play this game: I have sean some refrences in hear and in the CT lately and over the past few moths about this so I thought I would just clear this up for anyone who thought diferently.
I Pay the same that you all do to play AH i dont have a comped acount.
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brady, you and all the other VOLUNTEERS that make the maps, etc. happen in the CT got my respect. :)
>S<
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Hang in there Brady. Just because some of us don't like this planeset , doesn't mean we think bad of you. It's the A6M2 I dislike , I appreciate the efforts of you and all the CT team.
The A6M2 seems to be one of those planes some guys can fly the hell out of and some guys are just targets in. I'm one of the targets. I don't understand it, I've tried to get better in it, more than anything it's a gunnery issue with me. I can get the advantage on an Allied plane, I just can't hit anything with the guns. Where as the A6M5 I have no problem getting a position of advantage or hitting anything with the guns.
I have the same problem with Russian planes , I can't hit dirt if I aim at the ground.:rolleyes:
Hang in there bud it's just a game , and most of us know you pay to play too , hell you pay to contribute.
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(insert pic of arena selection page with CT replaced with "Pik As" and the word "owned" next to it)
If I had my own personal or squad arena I wouldn't ask for a comped account either. Heck, I'd expect to have to pay extra.
(http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/blackeye/hihi.gif)
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Piss on umm Brady. Make the plane set you want. The quicker you drive whiners off the better you will be.
Arlo does nothing in AH. He runs his mouth about everything yet contributes 0. You dont owe any of us anything.
Man Mr Fork is Pik As, Brady is Pik As, maybe Ill come back and it make it clean sweep "Pik As Theatre" sounds great dont it.
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well that was just to nasty so I edited it.:)
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Oh man .... so, like, the fast track to getting to control the CT with an iron fist and making the allied players pay for the sins of thier grandfathers is joining the same squad you, Brady and Fork are in?
Neh ... that good `ol boy network is too cliquish and set in their ways. And, of course, I'd end up makin' ya look like the tard ya are. It's easier than ya'll think. Ya just put some thought into it beforehand with input from players who fly both sides and leave it the fug alone. Changing things later when it ain't broke will always make ya look like the south end of a north-bound jackarse. But hell, deep down ya really did know that, didn't ya? It's caring that counts. ;)
But hey ... I've picked up on all the public relations lines needed to cm the CT currently:
"In my opinun the F4F is moor than a mache for the N1K2 so their will be no chagns."
"Their was a teknicul problum with the alleyed bases. The hangers were reparing themselfes too fast. At leest 40 minites too fast. Changeeng thows bases manulee was my call."
"The arecraft I disabuled was being abused. On moor than one ocasiun I witness it actualee being used in combat."
"The fleets in qwestion could not be sunc by a single val in a single hop so I resett them."
So, do I qualify to join the Pik As country club and run an arena? Not like I'm really applying but hey. :D
Originally posted by Batz
Piss on umm Brady. Make the plane set you want. The quicker you drive whiners off the better you will be.
Arlo does nothing in AH. He runs his mouth about everything yet contributes 0. You dont owe any of us anything.
Man Mr Fork is Pik As, Brady is Pik As, maybe Ill come back and it make it clean sweep "Pik As Theatre" sounds great dont it.
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Piss on umm Brady. Make the plane set you want. The quicker you drive whiners off the better you will be.
Actually, most successful business models cater to the customer. I would assume this would work similarly well for drawing a crowd to the CT. And sometimes its best to actually bite your tongue too.
I will say, I'm glad I'm not running this thing. You'll never make everyone happy. But sometimes throwing a bone is nice too.
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Piss on umm Brady. Make the plane set you want. The quicker you drive whiners off the better you will be.
Hey good plan. Lets run off all the people Buttz doesnt like and you guys can have your own personel little theater. That will show them. Go get'em toughy.
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Originally posted by Puke
Actually, most successful business models cater to the customer. I would assume this would work similarly well for drawing a crowd to the CT.
i appreciate the work CT volunteers do... but.... the above is very valid... you might be surprised to see a bigger CT crowd if one little thing was done... radar/icon = MA norm. this seems to be the *one* big thing that keeps players away. just sayin'
aside: personally i'd have liked a later PTO setup, but .
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Actually, most successful business models cater to the customer
No buisnesses diversify their customer base so they can grow. No buisness succeeds by catering to a single product limited customer base. Look at the growth of the main.
Late war pac set ups havent brought in new guys and average attendence has dropped with these set ups.
Shane
The CT was originally the Norway map no field capture, no cvs or Navy planes and still brought in 50 guys a night. It had main settings.
It then went to the Euro map but that map was bugged. Strat was mixed so you could shot be down right after you took off, there was no radar for the axis and 1 radar dish for the allies. Then they allowed the fleets to be manned so you had guy parking the fleets in the center of the channel. CT attendence dropped, but the was right about the same time a new game update followed up by the Holidays.
Pyro decided to turn the ct over to the community. There were several threads that sought to seek out a what the community wanted. By far they wanted what we currently have. But they included base capture (huge mistake imho).
The majority of set ups early on had no pac planes included at all and numbers still were about 50 folks.
Its not the planeset that brings people in. Its good fights with balanced planesets on good maps. When you achieve all 3 the numbers are high. When dont achieve any of these numbers are lowest.
You can delude yourselves into thinking otherwise but I have been involved in the ct since the first hour it was set up.
Back to the current set up. This set up is just there so they can test a few things before an upcoming scenario. When the BoB map first came out we heard these same whines about the planeset. This was because that setup was rerun frequently.
But there are your general whiners like arlo and slash who contribute nothing but their mouths and if they decide not to fly the ct anymore that would be great. I cant see how any good can come out of catering to these types. But I have nothing to do with ct any more. Just offering my 2 cents.
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Then why do you feel you need to keep telling everyone in here on what the CT should or shouldn't be??
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Everyone? I am telling 2 whiners what their options are. Take it with a grain of salt..........
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Bradys,
to you and the CT staff. But, I HAVE in fact spent significant time over the past few days reading CT posts and your replies. I know you are going to say I am biased, but, the one OBJECTIVE thing anyone can refer to in this argument is the line, or lines of reasoning you use in justifying the plane versus plane decisions. Seeing these, one cannot help but conclude you (be it intentional or otherwise) have an axis bias. Below, I have listed the COMMON themes of ALL your arguments AGAINST allied planes or axis versus allied matchups.
1. Almost without fail, when we (allies) ask for a plane to be considered, you respond with (i am paraphrasing) "your current plane(s) is more than adequate, it is skill and/or a few subtle differences than will allow you to win in it." Look back, that is THE consistent response you have to allied whines (mine included).
-Allies are constantly told by you that we have to make due with our planeset. What about the axis? Forget the fact you told me (look to other "Vent" thread) that I am simply looking for an advantage for the allies. EVERY PLANE HAS AT LEAST ONE ADVANTAGE OVER ITS CONTEMPORARIES. For example, the zekes have a ROC advantage over the p40b and f4f4, as well as one in turning. Brady, all an a6m2 driver has to do is climb to 15k and stay there. He can catch, outturn, outclimb and out run EVERY plane in the arena from that position of power.
2. When explaining the axis position on things, you say (many times) it is "not FUN" for the poor fellow being bnz'd by a much faster enemy. You have made this in reference to the f4u1 debate from a few setups ago. Additionally, you do reference the p40e's performance in the same manner in debating this current slot setup and the fun factor for the japanese pilot.
-Brady since when have you considered the allied "fun" factor. It is not fun for us either to constantly be jumped and chased by uber-diving a6m2s (I am telling you, dive an a6m5b and then an a6m2 and you will see the futility of trying to flee from the a6m2 in p40b). Is our (allied) "fun" as paying game members LESS important than yours (axis)?
-Did you ever stop to consider that maybe game play would be HELPED by the addition of the p40e to the map? With its rate of climb and speed, we allies could spend less time running and more time fighting. I am sure the axis get tired of chasing us. Matter of fact, they want to fight us as bad as we want to fight them, but our only choice is usually to run from co-e zekes when in the slot.
3. You often cite historical reasons for removing allied planes. By itself, that is fine. However, in light of your "axis fun" argument, you cannot make the historical argument against an allied plane, or axis versus allied, matchup and NOT consider allied fun too.
-Don't forget, the f4u-1 was delivered in July of 1942. But, again, bowing to axis fun, you threw out a plane based at one airfield out. Which is dictating your decisions, bradys, HISTORY or FUN? You can't have it both ways when you only consider the "fun" factor for only one side.
Bradys, look back through your decisions and answers to our so-called whines and you will see what I mean. I just hope you are as big a man as you seem to be and can acknowledge that you have dropped the ball a few times. If not, you will probably respond to only half of my points (again) and prove me right about the bias issue.
Z0mBe
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i have no plms with CT settings myself, just saying that seems to be the #1 reason why people don't come back/stay... reduced dar making fights "harder" to find, plus the dot chasing not knowing if friendly or enemy...
just sayin' how about a one month experiement with full MA dar settings just to see what it does for the player base, accompanied with a bit of advertising, perhaps?
worth a little experiement i think....
but YMMV and all that...
oh and zombe... do you ever fly one of the perceived "disadvantaged" planes? i mean all i pretty much see you is in the fastest/"best" thing in the air. just remarking. :D
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Batz,
No offense but, there are plenty of businesses who take the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle, do one thing very well and focus on a market niche. Their customer base grows from crossover appeal into other markets, not because they "try to chase more than one rabbit." In other words, the products themselves do not diversify in these cases, just the single product's quality is so great it appeals to many people.
Diversification as a strategy (not diversification of the customer base as a result of a simple, appealing good or service) is, almost without fail, LESS profitable than a focus strategy. That is the lesson of the Sears-Roebucks and the IBMs of the business world.
If you doubt me, check out any college management text book, or do some research online :).
Z0mBe
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lol shane you should see my p40b versus zeke or p38l vs 109gs stats from the past month. I flew once in the zero this setup. :P
Also, if that were true, I would have flown for the russians in the finrus setup...I flew the la5 one time.
<> see you in the air
Z0mBe
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No buisnesses diversify their customer base so they can grow. No buisness succeeds by catering to a single product limited customer base. Look at the growth of the main.
And is that catering to the customer or not?
Just where did I specify customer base, single products and all this other stuff you are throwing in?
But I guess you guys can just "piss" on us all and make what Brady wants.
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The ct is not crossing over into other markets, it markets to the type of flight sim pilot who enjoys good plane match ups. Each of us have our own ideas as to what "good plane match ups are".
There is a lot of diversity of customers within a given market. Say T Shirts; some like black, some like blue etc. Selling just pink shirts to those 5 who only want pink t shirts isnt a way to grow a buisness.
Catering to a few specific people who dont represent the whole of your potential market does make sense. Theres something to be said for customer loyalty but you cant simply cater to them at the expense of everyone else.
The diversity I am talking about already exists within the current customer base. Its not in creating new markets.
There is a large appeal for Navy planes and there have been a variety of set ups that had navy planes in various theaters, maps, and time frames.
There are a variety of ct cms who have their own preferences. A lot of the whining coming from folks now has to do with "not this planeset again". Which is understandable since this set up was just run. But as stated this is being rerun to help with an upcoming scenario. You would think people would be willing to put up with it for a week.
But all we get is whines from a few folks whos whole contribution to ah is their mouths.
There are other cms and jumping all over Brady as if he alone has stopped any other type of pac set up except the a6m2 vrs the F4F or the inclusion of the F4u-1 is stupid.
Theres a thread right now asking for a late war pac set up. I am sure one of the cms is looking at that and may have something planned.
I dont care for late war pac and as such I just wont fly it. But berating a guy because he chose not to include a particular persons favorite ride is bs. Just dont fly it. Next week something new will be there.
Sure Shane they can certainly try it again it may or may not help get new guys. Previously when main settings were tried they brought the same amount of folks.
A good thing to try would be to set up one of the smaller main maps (mindinao, ndisles, ute) up in the ct with the exact same main settings and full plane set as an offset to the trinity or pizza map.
I bet that would bring in more folks.
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Wotan:{whining} Bwady ..... pwotect me fwum the F4UuuuUUUuuu! Thank you, Bwady! Wemember, Bwady ... nothing can pwotect us fwum the F4UuuuUUUuuu! :D
Originally posted by Batz
Everyone? I am telling 2 whiners what their options are. Take it with a grain of salt..........
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Originally posted by Batz
Arlo does nothing in AH. He runs his mouth about everything yet contributes 0..
this is not true
he makes a fine target floundering around out there while whining on ch1 :)
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I dont think we should confuse the p40e addition to this setup with other more important things (like late war pto and allied plane choices). We had the p40e in this setup last time and it was unbalancing. P40b is a fine plane in here, if you have patience and dont mess up.
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Well see?! There ya go! And I didn't even have to join the GOB network to do it. :D
Originally posted by Eagler
this is not true
he makes a fine target floundering around out there while whining on ch1 :)
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And have a wingie to peel the zeek off yer tail and the zeeks aren't grabbing to 20k and ......
Point is!
Nothing is perfectly balanced. But in the course of human events ... if something goes wrong in the Slot .... the allies must pay the price out of fear of pissing off the IJ players and them quiting.
The F4F (not a bad ride, in general) ends up perk-porked and Brady has to make a choice as to what fighter will temporarily take it's place until things can be fixed. And, as usual, we sure as hell don't wanna give the allied player a plane that can compete, maybe even do better than (some) zekes. Let's play it safe and use the P40b instead. Then if anyone says anything we'll just say they suck. Wotan will have an opportunity to redeem himself by calling others whiners for a change.
The truly ironic thing about it all is the actual character of the dedicated IJ squadrons in the CT. They, for the most part, do not whine, make excuses or carry on about how the IJ players have to be fiercely protected from the hordes of uber blue planes. They welcome challenges. Some even counter the argument that the IJ planeset has no weapon that can counter the awesome and powerful god-planes (the F4U and F6F). Noooo ... these whi .. errr ... arguments are the valiant excu .... errrr .... reasons given by Brady (and co) to "protect" them from not having any fun at all.
So ... if it comes to balance ... there's no alternating or equalizing - only rationalizing. Sorry allied players, you're screwed. Smile and take it or go away because that's yer options.
I don't think so but thanks anyway. ;) :D
Originally posted by ergRTC
I dont think we should confuse the p40e addition to this setup with other more important things (like late war pto and allied plane choices). We had the p40e in this setup last time and it was unbalancing. P40b is a fine plane in here, if you have patience and dont mess up.
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There is a lot of diversity of customers within a given market. Say T Shirts; some like black, some like blue etc. Selling just pink shirts to those 5 who only want pink t shirts isnt a way to grow a buisness.
What the heck are you talking about??
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Originally posted by Batz
A good thing to try would be to set up one of the smaller main maps (mindinao, ndisles, ute) up in the ct with the exact same main settings and full plane set as an offset to the trinity or pizza map.
I bet that would bring in more folks.
that's just an ass-stupid remark. are you *that* anal retentive about radar settings?
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Puke try reading the thread ( a few posts above yours you may figure it out). I hadnt even seen your second post when I replied to Zombe.
Shane I was serious
Btw radar settings change all the time. Range has been adjusted for various reasons and never set a particular distance. So I dont what your talking about. Theres a lot whining about how folks cant fly the planes they want when they want, creating an alternative "main" eliminates that.
The only ct standards are (or were) icon range and ack lethality. Radar depended on the map. Strat is turned off.
I dont what your "anal retentive" remark is about I can only guess you dont what your talking about. In my tenur as a ct cm radar went every where max (more then the main) to every where in between.
So umm whatever I guess...........:rolleyes:
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well, there's no question that it's a valid alternative to some of the maps in MA, but the CT isn't the place to do that. lobby for a second MA.
:D
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Batz, I know how to read, thank you. But let me summarize our progress so far:
You stated Brady should piss on us and do whatever he wants and I said it might be better to cater to the customer. Then you go into some diatribe about pink t-shirts and diversification and all that. Believe it or not, those things are not an argument against catering to the customer. :rolleyes: Rather, diversifying and all this other stuff you bring up supports catering to the customer. (Or maybe you have problem with the singular and I should say "customers.") But please, stop your silly rant about business models because it's completely bizzar.
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"Piss on umm" is directed at only 2 people (well 1 actually if you have read the thread saying brady has a comped account and was abusing his cm powers you would know whats up). If you choose to include yourself in that well thats on you. I really dont care one way or the other.
There are other "customers" that care nothing for pac set ups. You think Brady should cater to 1 particular type of customer (the ones that happen to fly the same planes as you btw). My point to you was theres greater diversity in the customer base that brady shouldnt cater to any of them. Any thing after that had nothing to do with you.
My 2nd reply was to Zombe's post
Batz,
No offense but, there are plenty of businesses who take the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle, do one thing very well and focus on a market niche. Their customer base grows from crossover appeal into other markets, not because they "try to chase more than one rabbit." In other words, the products themselves do not diversify in these cases, just the single product's quality is so great it appeals to many people.
Diversification as a strategy (not diversification of the customer base as a result of a simple, appealing good or service) is, almost without fail, LESS profitable than a focus strategy. That is the lesson of the Sears-Roebucks and the IBMs of the business world.
If you doubt me, check out any college management text book, or do some research online .
It wasnt a diatribe and it certainly had nothing to do with you. You are putting yourself into a discusion that has little to do with you, then taking remarks out of context that have nothing to do with you. And if my remarks upset you theres the "ignore" feature there for you to use.
You brought up "buisness" btw.
Brady started this thread as response to accusations made in another thread. Anything that comes after that should be kept in that context.
Shane I do all my lobbying at the 'Pik As' anti-F4U-1 weekly meeting. :p
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Batz,
You are a funny guy. Funny how you quote me and then go into your diatribe about businesses catering to customers and now you say it never had anything to do with me. That's pretty rich. Fact is, I stated that most successful business models cater to the customer. Fact is you quote that very statement from me and then follow it with a ramble about diversity, pink t-shirts and the like. Fact is, now you say you were never replying to me or I have nothing to do with the convo. I'm getting dizzy from the circles, though it's kind of interesting that dancing and back-pedaling. So, does he listen to the customer or just make what he wants?
There are other "customers" that care nothing for pac set ups.
And there are customes who do. But I guess it's those "other" customers who win out because they have control of this place. Are you guys really that afraid to have a setup for a week where the starring attraction is F4U-1 vs N1K2?
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And there are customes who do. But I guess it's those "other" customers who win out because they have control of this place. Are you guys really that afraid to have a setup for a week where the starring attraction is F4U-1 vs N1K2?
Have there not been pac set ups? Theres been plenty. Has there been pac set ups with the F4Us F6F P51b p47d11 p38l B17 b26 vrs ki 61 an a6m5? Sure there have been. Have there been pac set ups with the Niki ki 61 F6f and F4s? Sure there has. There will be again. I just doudt you will get Brady to put those together.
In those set ups numbers were lower on average.
Funny how you quote me
You were quoted at the very begginning of the thread. A whole other series of replies took place, none had anything to do with you.
There are other cms besides brady. If they choose to give you a bone then so be it. Trying to bully Brady into catering to the particular set up you want is bs. The reason for the current plane set is so the new build of the slot map can get worked over and so the guys who registered for the "Guadalcanal Operation Watchtower" can get a taste of the plane match ups. If you cant accomodate that well to bad. However, I think most of the whining is more or less "oh know not this plane set again" since it has been run recently. But thats understandable. Claiming some sort of conspiracy to keep "the good ole F4U-1" down is stupid.
This thread is in reply to tardlo who feels brady cheated him out of his F4U-1 vrs the a6m2 the last time this set up was run. He then implies the only reason brady is running it again is deny him another chance at his f4u-1.
What I think is funny is you impose yourself into a conversation with out even taking 2 secs to figure the context of whats going.
I dont care what you like to fly. I am no longer a ct cm. If you have a certain set up you want to get implemented take it to those cms who are willing to hear you. Theres a whole other thread about future pac set ups. If you'll noticed I have no replies in there because even though its a set up I dont like I am not going whine and make baseless accusations to get what I want.
I just wont fly it. Thats the same options everyone else has. Its only a week and if you dont like it a new set up will be ready next friday. If you feel 1 particular cm is unresponsive to your request then move on to the next one.
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No it ain't, Wotan. The thread was started by Brady to remind everyone of his selfless sacrifice to the community since people seemed to be dragging their feet in showing appreciation this time. I've never once said I was cheated out of A6M2s for the F4U-1 supper. You keep bringing that up because it's about the only argument you think works after everything else was addressed and filed in the "whiney-arsed excuses" drawer. What I said was keeping the F4U hostage to fulfill a personal agenda under the guise of "serving the community" ain't foolin' anyone. ;)
Wotan: {whining} Bwady! Save me, Bwady fwum dee F4UuuuUUUuuu! Mean `ol F4UUUuuuUUUUuuuu. Even in a Nikee I pee in my fwightsuit at the sight of an F4UUuuuUUUuuuuuUU!
:D
Originally whined by Wotan
This thread is in reply to tardlo who feels brady cheated him out of his F4U-1 vrs the a6m2 the last time this set up was run. He then implies the only reason brady is running it again is deny him another chance at his f4u-1.
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sad thing is arlo, I agree with you.
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ofcourse you do fly the same planes as him......
Brady pulled the f4u out this setup a month or so ago yet Tardlo keeps harping on it. If you dont feel cheated or maybe wronged in some other way , or if you really didnt want the f4u vrs a6m2 then whats the problem?
Theres other cms that maybe more receptive to running a late war pac set up. Yet your whole whine has to do with brady pulling the f4u-1. If all you want is a late war pac set up well I believe Sabre is up next. Why not ask him? Or any other CM (Jarbo Mr Fork).
It was explained why this set up, with this planeset, is being run again. I never liked having to fly the same set up to often but this is a different case in that we have an up coming scenario and a new map build to test. It also gives those who will fly that scenario, and dont fly the ct to often, a chance to get a feel of the plane match up. During BoB I ran that set up several times.
All you keeping spewing out is "Brady wont let me fly an F4U-1" and its all because of those evil axis 'Pik As' who control him.
Brady started this thread because you accused him in 2 different threads of abusing a comped account in keeping you poor navy pilots down.
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imo enough, this theread go to nowhere
respect for brady for his work
ramzey
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Heh heh. Now Batz wants to argue about what this thread is about.
Still... the successful business models cater to the customer. I think your advice to Brady to do just whatever he wants to do is poor advice and I stand by this. Even if you wear a pink t-shirt or not.
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Bull. LOL
Originally posted by Batz
Brady started this thread because you accused him in 2 different threads of abusing a comped account in keeping you poor navy pilots down.