Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on April 07, 2003, 09:51:28 AM
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lies, LIES -- ALL AMERICN LIES!!!!!!!!!!!
U.S. Finds Missiles with Chemical Weapons (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=1&cid=578&u=/nm/20030407/ts_nm/iraq_usa_cache_dc)
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and another find....
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0sl=-11
**** you blitz, **** you straffo, **** you boroda, **** you UN, **** you france, **** you germany and **** you russia.
may you rot in hell....
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Initial tests at the site were positive for chemical weapons, so more sophisticated gear — a mobile testing unit provided by the German government — was brought in.
What an irony, uh?
:)
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I'm already roting in France I cannot be at 2 places in the same time :D
btw
But sarin is also used in low levels in pesticides, which were found at the camp, so it is not clear if the facility is a nerve agent site or merely an agricultural facility.
blaaaaahhhhh :p
try again ;)
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Why would you put a pesticide on a missle?
That's one hell of a bug you're trying to kill.
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Originally posted by straffo
I'm already roting in France I cannot be at 2 places in the same time :D
btw
blaaaaahhhhh :p
try again ;)
keep believing in your fantasy world. So far 3 diferent finds. Some in missles and barrels ready to go.
I hope your country enjoys sleeping in the bed it's made....
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Originally posted by Udie
**** you blitz, **** you straffo, **** you boroda, **** you UN, **** you france, **** you germany and **** you russia.
Inventive :rolleyes:
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ahem!
Marines with the 101st Airborne Division
huh?
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Irak in is no way rediculous America to plain threat.
The illustriuous careers of many Pro-Saddam posters on this BBS just came to a halt. :D
George W. Bush for making the world a safer place to live.
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Did you read your own link ?
Here
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0sl=-11
And I've no lesson to receive from people who were eating their popcorn in 1995 and having the saoudian as allied.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
George W. Bush for making the world a safer place to live.
Sorry, but I disagree on a certain extent with this affirmation, let's hope the future will prove I am wrong.
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At the very least and if that results to be indeed a WMD site, would be proof (IMHO) that lack of any effective action would not have rendered the world a safer place. Like the one in that past 12 years...
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Why did all you anti-American folks bother with learning English?
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Something just occured to me... WTF is Weazel? Did I miss the ban party? :confused:
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Yeah, where is he?
Maybe he went to Baghdad to be a human shield.
*Oh God, Please!!!!!*
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Weazel was banned a couple weeks ago. Go to http://forums.checksix.net if you really miss his rantings.
MiniD
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Let's see... the first link that says that Marines from the 101st Airborne discovered the missiles is a poor summation of the NPR report found here: mms://216.35.221.84/me/20030407_me_18.wma (sorry... cut and paste to the browser)
The other says 14 barrels of nerve agent but no mention of missiles. It does say, "We’re talking about finding a site of possible WMD [Weapons of Mass Destruction] storage. This is an initial report, but it could be a smoking gun..."
and
"...it is not clear if the facility is a nerve agent site or merely an agricultural facility."
I'm not sure how the two stories are related. Most if not all insecticides are in fact nerve agents.
The U.S. has already decided that the Iraq is in breach of UN Resolution 1441. I'm not sure how these stories makes any difference other than being an attempt to use the ends to justifiy the means.
Call me skeptical, but right now I think there is more to this story.
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I heard on the radio that Chirq said if any WMD are found in Iraq, he will assume America planted them there.
Chiraq said that the only way he will believe WMD are in Iraq is when the UN says it's true.
Gotta love that worm.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
The U.S. has already decided that the Iraq is in breach of UN Resolution 1441. I'm not sure how these stories makes any difference other than being an attempt to use the ends to justifiy the means.
You can't come to that conclusion until war is over and WMD are not effectively found. Until that happens, I (and is my particular choice) give the benefit of the doubt to the U.S., definitely not to Saddam.
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Let's not jump the gun on the chemical/agricultural site yet...both sarin and tabun have legitimate uses as pesticides. Plus, other pesticides are chemically similar to tabun and serin since they are organophosphates and can give false positives.
If the lewisite is confirmed, that would be pretty damning, as it has no other purpose than to kill people.
And to put the "cache" of BM-21 "medium range" missiles into perspective...well, that is a 122mm multiple rocket launch (MRL) system that is akin to artillery, which was developed by the Soviets in the '50s....on the low end of medium range (about 15-20 miles). The "cache" of 20 rounds would be half a standard 40 round rack (probably left over from the Iran-Iraq War...I wonder if it was found with a bunch of other conventional BM-21 racks). Does anyone know right off the size area that 20 rounds would create sufficient concentration of airborne sarin to be lethal? I heard an expert on Fox who said that for a chemical attack via artillery to be effective over a battlefield size area you have to fire hundreds of chemical rounds.
I'm glad we have found something...our credibility will be much worse if we don't.
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Hmmm...back home we always put our pesticides in sprayers and what not. I guess missiles are more efficient?
And if the second site is "just an agricultural site"....why hide the barrels in the ground covered up with leaves as the story says?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Something just occured to me... WTF is Weazel? Did I miss the ban party? :confused:
Weazels been banned, he's trying to get banned over at AGW too, but their censors aren't as hard-nosed.
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Originally posted by Pepe
You can't come to that conclusion until war is over and WMD are not effectively found. Until that happens, I (and is my particular choice) give the benefit of the doubt to the U.S., definitely not to Saddam.
I phrased that poorly. Put it this way... There better be more, a lot more. I hardly consider a few short range rockets and some barrels of insecticide to be a "threat to world peace."
I'm not drawing any conclusions yet.
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Originally posted by sling322
Hmmm...back home we always put our pesticides in sprayers and what not. I guess missiles are more efficient?
Note...two different sites, two different news stories. One site has a "cache" of 20 MRL rockets. The other has drums of chemicals. Most mosquito control is not done with a can of Raid. They get the pesticides in drums and load it into mobile sprayers.
And if the second site is "just an agricultural site"....why hide the barrels in the ground covered up with leaves as the story says? [/B]
I'll definitely be interested in seeing pics of the site. I'm not surprised they would store the stuff in a pit. Both of those chemicals when vaporized are heavier than air, keeping the barrels in a pit would contain spills or leaks. But I'm really curious to see the leaves...seems a camo net would have been more logical if you were really trying to hide something.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I'm not drawing any conclusions yet.
Neither do I. But If I have to choose one side to be skeptical, I undoubtfully chose to be skeptical on Saddam's denials.
As CrowMAW says, U.S. credibility is at risk here. Despite all "political correctness" (aka "hidden agenda stupidity") around Europe, I give a LOT more credit to U.S. government than to Saddam's one or U.N. inspectors skills or ability to fulfill their task effectively. So, at the time being, I'm skeptical about not finding any WMD.
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Read the stories CrowMAW.
The first one said there were 20 missiles that were in a "ready to fire" state and were loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.
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Originally posted by Udie
and another find....
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0sl=-11
**** you blitz, **** you straffo, **** you boroda, **** you UN, **** you france, **** you germany and **** you russia.
may you rot in hell....
Jumping the gun a wee bit aren't we?
Tronsky
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Chemical weapons in rockets is by far and away the least of anyone's worries. It might be hyped... but that's for the publicity.
Any state sponsored terrorism from a country that has shown a pension to use chemical weapons on its enemy is a very real threat. In the case of Iraq, you had two strikes and we weren't going to wait anymore for the third. It really is that simple. Most of the rest is just rhetoric and subterfuge (from both sides).
I'm not concerned about the autrocities that Saddam was responsible for in Iraq. These have been going on for some time and everyone seemed to be just fine with them before. There's nothing new being exposed here... and there's much worse going on in other countries (especially in Africa). I'm also not concerned about the presence of nukes and chemical weapons in a country that is 12,000 miles away and only has missiles that can launch 300 miles, because they can't touch me.
I am very much concerned that this country sponsors terrorism and has the ability to manufacture radioactive material and chemical/biological weapons. These are transportable and can be used via terrorism. Anyone that denies that Saddam sponsored terrorism or is capable of providing that kind of support to terrorist is being obtuse.
So please, everyone, please continue to spew rhetoric back and forth as if it matters. Saddam is out of power now. That is all that really mattered in this situation.
MiniD
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Originally posted by sling322
Read the stories CrowMAW.
The first one said there were 20 missiles that were in a "ready to fire" state and were loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.
BM21 infos:
http://www.fuchs.co.za/rocket/bm21.pdf
Produced in South Africa (next in the axis of evil... or of weasel?)
http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/Rus...description.htm
Those are not missiles, are rockets 122mm caliber.
In my opinion (humble, of course) 20 shell-like full of sarin (if confirmed) or whatever, are'nt enough to call it Weapon of Mass Destruction.
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Originally posted by sling322
Read the stories CrowMAW.
The first one said there were 20 missiles that were in a "ready to fire" state and were loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.
Rather than read the first report, listen to the source of it here:
mms://216.35.221.84/me/20030407_me_18.wma (http://mms://216.35.221.84/me/20030407_me_18.wma)
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...and has the ability to manufacture radioactive material...
You what? I can believe Iraq has C and B facilities, but definitely not nuclear. The uranium supply documents were proven forgeries and Iraq hasn't had a reactor since the Israelis blew it up in '81.
Unlike NK, which already has reactors producing plutonium, an ICBM program and strong links with that international terrorist playground aka Yemen.
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HAHAHAHA told ya told ya told ya.
Now all you naysayers can collectively kiss our entire Buttox!!!
to our allies france germany and russia.
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHP PPPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!
To our true allies the brits bloody good show mates =S=
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This is good news indeed.
HOWEVER:
...MAY have found..
is not the same as
...HAS found...
It is wise to have sure knowledge of a party taking place before one starts to done the party gear.
So let's wait til it is confirmed eh udie? No need to tell countries to go **** themselves.
Assuming nothing is found that hasn't been declared, will the US then, by the same rule, go **** itself, apologize to Saddam and restore lives to the thousands of people that are dead?
It should be noted that I am of the firm conviction that Saddam is hiding substantial stocks of WMD.
All I am saying; remain civil and await confirmation, then go ahead with the 'told you so' and other things that will further divide allies.
After all
On Saturday, a U.S. officer said first tests of a suspicious white powder and liquid found on Friday in thousands of boxes south of Baghdad indicated it was not a chemical weapon.
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sarin (if confirmed) or whatever, are'nt enough to call it Weapon of Mass Destruction.
Hmmmm NEWS FLASH: Sarin gas no longer considered a weapon of mass destruction.
I suppose you wouldn't consider rockets filled with nerve gas a "material breach" of 1441 either.
:rolleyes:
Wab
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Originally posted by Naso
In my opinion (humble, of course) 20 shell-like full of sarin (if confirmed) or whatever, are'nt enough to call it Weapon of Mass Destruction.
So, I take it you wouldnt mind if we brought them over and dropped them on your neighborhood then, eh?
Its Sarin gas, for shrecks sake....loaded in rockets or missiles or whatever. Its still something that he (Saddam) said that he didnt have, isnt it? Its still something that is on the list of banned weapons according to UN sanctions from the Gulf War, isnt it?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Weazels been banned, he's trying to get banned over at AGW too, but their censors aren't as hard-nosed.
AGW censors? Hell they won't even ban MG. The inmates are running the asylum over there.
Actually bad analogy. It's more like somebody put a brick on the gas pedal and jumped out the window.
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Originally posted by sling322
So, I take it you wouldnt mind if we brought them over and dropped them on your neighborhood then, eh?
Its Sarin gas, for shrecks sake....loaded in rockets or missiles or whatever. Its still something that he (Saddam) said that he didnt have, isnt it? Its still something that is on the list of banned weapons according to UN sanctions from the Gulf War, isnt it?
I spent my whole lunch hour today arguing with a guy who has been opposing the US since day one. His arguments have now changed from "There is no evidence of WMD!" to "Chemical and Biological weapons are not WMD...where are the nukes?"
Some people just hate being wrong and refuse to admit it.
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Curval, most of them have already decided there will be no WMD, regardless of the facts. Their antiamericanism blinds them from seeing the truth.
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Kieren said it best on AGW
You (being the anti-Iraq war crowd et al) have shifted the argument variously from "there's no proof anything's there" to "so what if it's there, they can't hurt us with it." In addition, taking the stance "they are no threat to us today" is extremely shortsighted. They have spent the last 12 years preparing for our return, and if that is any indication of their intent with regards to the US, it would at least hint they may go proactive. A lot of assumptions here perhaps (tips hat to Thrawn), but I don't believe it is all that much a stretch.
Imagine this instead... what if Iraq had spent the time dismantling their WMD and biological production instead of building a seige-busting tunnel network under Baghdad? It seems to me their efforts have been more concentrated on hiding what they're doing and keeping us out than in complying with the agreement that ended the first war.
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Co-worker of mine just got back from Europe - said the news has reported over there that US/UK forces have found missiles (type unknown to him) that are in breach of UN resolutions (range) and were built by the French 18 months ago and sold to Iraq.
Anyone hear anything about there state-side? Looking for link.
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Well, I just watched Fox news on the subject of the "chemical facility". They had pics of a site. They are not sure if it is the same site that was described by Rueters (the originator of the story). They did say that they have been shown several similar "chemical facilities" and so far all have been pesticides. The one mentioned in Rueters is highly suspect because of the concentration levels and the lewisite "trace" that was detected, plus because of it's proximity to a military training camp. It will be several days before the barrels are evacuated and tested.
I'll try to describe the pics they had. The "pit" looked like an earthen basement dug about 5 ft into the ground, wide enough 3 barrels across and 5 deep. It had pole beam supports for a ceiling and a tattered woven grass mat for a door. Inside were barrels that looked like they been there for some time...caked in dirt (perhaps from the recent dust storm though). Other barrels were standing in the open.
Even the Fox commentator had to admit that sarin was a chemical used in pesticides (unusually candid for Fox). And said the testers had given a 50% chance that this was weapons chemicals.
If this does pan out because of the lewisite, I don't think there will be a chance that folks can say it was planted by the US. The "facility" and barrels look like they've been there since well before the war started.
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Originally posted by Curval
I spent my whole lunch hour today arguing with a guy who has been opposing the US since day one. His arguments have now changed from "There is no evidence of WMD!" to "Chemical and Biological weapons are not WMD...where are the nukes?"
Some people just hate being wrong and refuse to admit it.
He can be right it depend if he is using the old pre-97 definition or the new post-97 definition (I won't say what country wanted to add gas to the WMD list but made all it's possible to not have the landmine in the WMD list.)
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Originally posted by straffo
He can be right it depend if he is using the old pre-97 definition or the new post-97 definition (I won't say what country wanted to add gas to the WMD list but made all it's possible to not have the landmine in the WMD list.)
What makes you think that this definition was changed to add chem/bio in 1997?
-Sik
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I've discuted this with Hortlund some week ago leave me a bit of time I'll dig the ressources.
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I can save you some time, and show how they have been considered WMD for at least the past Thirty One years.
Originally Written into Preambulatory Clause 7 of the Biological Weapons Convention
Convinced of the importance and urgency of eliminating from the arsenals of States, through effective measures, such dangerous weapons of mass destruction as those using chemical or bacteriological (biological) agents,
(emphasis my own)
This was first signed in 1972
[edit]
Full text can be found Here (http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4718.htm#treaty)
[/edit]
-Sik
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Originally posted by Udie
and another find....
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0sl=-11
**** you blitz, **** you straffo, **** you boroda, **** you UN, **** you france, **** you germany and **** you russia.
may you rot in hell....
Udie, please don't fall for every propaganda joke , please :)
Regards Blitz
btw your government will find WMDs, i asure you....
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
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hmmm ... I'm perhaps wrong ...
I thought in fact of this : http://disarmament.un.org/wmd/cwc/index.html
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Irak in is no way rediculous America to plain threat.
The illustriuous careers of many Pro-Saddam posters on this BBS just came to a halt. :D
George W. Bush for making the world a safer place to live.
Damn ****in Iraq Nazies with their evil ICBMs, thank you Mr. Bush ! :D
Regards Blitz
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
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Originally posted by straffo
hmmm ... I'm perhaps wrong ...
I thought in fact of this : http://disarmament.un.org/wmd/cwc/index.html
Yeah, many people find it odd that the Production and possession of Chemical weapons wasn't expressly banned until 1997 with the entry into force of the CWC (the use of them was banned by the Geneva Protocol). However, bear in mind that this was not because Chemical weapons were not considered WMD, but rather because of how difficult it is to create a treaty like this.
The BWC (entered into force in 1975) suffered from major shortcomings with regard to oversite and dual use issues. As a result the UN took a lot of time to create the CWC. According to your link they were working on it since 1980.
-Sik
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I thought you left nazi boy? Typical euro liar....
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Originally posted by crowMAW
Note...two different sites, two different news stories. One site has a "cache" of 20 MRL rockets. The other has drums of chemicals. Most mosquito control is not done with a can of Raid. They get the pesticides in drums and load it into mobile sprayers.
I'll definitely be interested in seeing pics of the site. I'm not surprised they would store the stuff in a pit. Both of those chemicals when vaporized are heavier than air, keeping the barrels in a pit would contain spills or leaks. But I'm really curious to see the leaves...seems a camo net would have been more logical if you were really trying to hide something.
I saw them on the BBC last night, looked like a pile of barrels (40 gallon drums) in a shallow trench, with a camo net cast over the top and some wood at the end of the trench to hide them. The guys there were very nervous as there were some really obvious wires in and around the barrels, looking like they were boobie trapped.
Hence they're taking their time identifying them.
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Originally posted by Udie
I thought you left nazi boy? Typical euro liar....
Sorry Udie, must be a missunderstanding, it's a well experienced diplomat of the US administration, John Brady Kiesling, who quits after 20 years of serving his country,because of Mr. Bushs deadly politics, nevermind :)
Regards Blitz
btw Can't wait to get back into my trusty P51, only waiting till the killing is over, can't stand to fly at the moment.
America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous- It's a classic bloody 'Aggression War'
When will this tough little country of Vietnam see that apology?
Americans and Vietnamese have something in common :
Their pride
Regards Blitz
btw Breakin News!!! Coalition found thousands of barrels of "Agent Orange" in Iraq :D
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Originally posted by Udie
I thought you left nazi boy? Typical euro liar....
Udie ur Weazels other personality?
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Originally posted by Duedel
Udie ur Weazels other personality?
no i just hate people that support SH and his regime. Especially people who come from a country that used to be nazi. That might include you too nazi boy....
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Udie your nationalism and hate reminds me of the descriptions of the worst nazies during WW2.
Look in the mirror. You have no right to call anyone a nazi untill you do a quick attitude check.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Udie your nationalism and hate reminds me of the descriptions of the worst nazies during WW2.
Look in the mirror. You have no right to call anyone a nazi untill you do a quick attitude check.
True, only Udie isn't supporting a gov't building camps to exterminate a race. Just one trying to free a nation from totaltarianism.
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Hey Martlett you're forgetting Area51 and Bush's regimes blatant attempt to exterminate the aliens from this planet. :(
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Originally posted by Udie
no i just hate people that support SH and his regime. Especially people who come from a country that used to be nazi. That might include you too nazi boy....
Cute Udie
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Hey Martlett you're forgetting Area51 and Bush's regimes blatant attempt to exterminate the aliens from this planet. :(
ahhh, and the minotaurs. I've noticed far fewer minotaurs since Bush took office.
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Udie wrote:
I thought you left nazi boy? Typical euro liar....
As I am right now working on multimodal context based information extraction, part of which involves speech recognition, I have to ask this:
Euro liar
US liar
What fundamental difference is there between those two sentences? If we analyse the short sentences we'll find...
Oh you get it. Good. :).
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Originally posted by Udie
I thought you left nazi boy? Typical euro liar....
Just how does one get a left nazi then?
Tronsky
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well, once yah identify all the right german nazi's, all thats left[/b] is....
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Originally posted by sling322
So, I take it you wouldnt mind if we brought them over and dropped them on your neighborhood then, eh?
Its Sarin gas, for shrecks sake....loaded in rockets or missiles or whatever. Its still something that he (Saddam) said that he didnt have, isnt it? Its still something that is on the list of banned weapons according to UN sanctions from the Gulf War, isnt it?
I dont remember to have taken position about Saddam's owning or not owning the WMD.
Neither I am a supporter of Saddam regime.
I am just expressing my opinion that theese 2 findings are'nt enough to be called "smoking gun".
The "Sarin depot" has been confirmed tonight by the Coalition HQ as a pesticide factory.
20 BM21 rockets.
We are not talking about a Scud here, theese rockets have a warhead of the size of an artillery shell (122mm in this case), and are just half the load of a Katiusha-like rocket launcher.
Not enough even to reach the concentration necessary to have a real effect (except if someone is so dumb to sniff the shell after it hit the ground ;) ).
IMHO this is not the smoking gun.
But I will not place a bet that does'nt exist a real smoking gun, somewhere.
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Originally posted by Martlet
True, only Udie isn't supporting a gov't building camps to exterminate a race. Just one trying to free a nation from totaltarianism.
...and soviet union liberated several countries population from their imperialist rulers.
Good thing Finland didn't end up as one of the "liberated" countries!
I don't believe Bush has 'freedom' in his mind when hes 'liberating' Iraq, he has other interests there and the 'freedom' is just an excellent excuse to get support.
The reason why I've been against the war in the begining - hypocrisy.
It's just laughable how many people starts to sound like 1930's nazis, just with the different agenda, but so similar attitude wise.
It doesn't need concentration camps, it's the attitude which judges it.
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Fishu:
Are you saying current US is similar to 1.939 USSR? Or implying that US attitude is comparable to Germany's one from 1936 onwards?
Wow! what a heluva brainwash! :eek:
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Pepe in 1939 Russians came here thinking they would arrive as a liberators and were surprised when they were hit back in a bloody fights.
After reading Bush's thoughts about Iraq's future under US ruling it seems like US is also marching in as an occupier, not a liberator. For me it looks more and more that all this war is about is oil.
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Originally posted by Naso
20 BM21 rockets.
We are not talking about a Scud here, theese rockets have a warhead of the size of an artillery shell (122mm in this case), and are just half the load of a Katiusha-like rocket launcher.
Not enough even to reach the concentration necessary to have a real effect (except if someone is so dumb to sniff the shell after it hit the ground ;) ).
A little research shows that it would take 15 tonnes (about 16 short tons) of sarin to produce a 50% kill ratio over a 60 sq km area (about 23 sq miles) for a time period of about 10 hours in desert conditions (greater than 90F and 10+ mph wind).
For perspective a BM-21 max payload is about 5kg (about 10lb). I don't know the BM-21 payload volume or the specific weight of sarin (I'd guess under 10lb per gallon).
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Originally posted by Staga
Pepe in 1939 Russians came here thinking they would arrive as a liberators and were surprised when they were hit back in a bloody fights.
After reading Bush's thoughts about Iraq's future under US ruling it seems like US is also marching in as an occupier, not a liberator. For me it looks more and more that all this war is about is oil.
No way. If my memory suits me well, in 1.939, USSR (a bloody dictatorship by that time) appointed a self-proclaimed "exile" finish "government" who call for soviet "help" to "free" the country. A country which was a democracy. Correct me If I'm wrong. U.S. (a western democracy) is waging war against a bloody and murderous regime which has used all kind of measures to tyranize its population and neighbours. Making an analogy between Finland 1.939 and Iraq 2.003 situation is absolutely out of focus.
What it looks like in Iraq war is that people are both scared and suspicious. Scared about a bloody regime and suspicious about allies attitude after 1.991 deception. Sure there are people loyal to the regime, as in every dictatorship, but I bet the average Iraqui is more opposed to Saddam than me or you will ever be. This is a liberation war, at least at this stage. Wether at the end a real liberation will take place or not, time will tell. Too early for assesment on such an ambitious goal.
Saying this war is for oil is, to say the very least, myopic. See the big picture.
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Originally posted by crowMAW
A little research shows that it would take 15 tonnes (about 16 short tons) of sarin to produce a 50% kill ratio over a 60 sq km area (about 23 sq miles) for a time period of about 10 hours in desert conditions (greater than 90F and 10+ mph wind).
For perspective a BM-21 max payload is about 5kg (about 10lb). I don't know the BM-21 payload volume or the specific weight of sarin (I'd guess under 10lb per gallon).
Doesn't really matter though does it?
What this proves is:
a) Iraq lied til the very end
b) Iraq was hiding this from the inspectors
c) Iraq was in violation of the UN resolutions all along
No doubt there will be more 'discoveries'. But all trivialising this does is make you look like you're making excuses for Saddam.
Chemical weapons IS chemical weapons mate. Hes got them, he said he didn't. End of story.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Doesn't really matter though does it?
It depends on who you are trying to sell on idea that the invasion was justified. I think that pointing to half a BM-21 rack of rockets found in a warehouse is kind of like trying to make a drug kingpin case against Pablo Escobar when all you've found is a joint in his pocket.
No doubt there will be more 'discoveries'.[/b]
I sure hope so, otherwise the USA's credibility is shot. I really do pray that more is found and that my suspicions are wrong.
But all trivialising this does is make you look like you're making excuses for Saddam.[/b]
As I've said in previous posts...I don't believe that Saddam posed a credible threat to the US based on an excuse that he has WMD. This trivial amount (if confirmed, which it has not) makes my argument that he was not a credible threat.
BUT...it appears to be a moot argument as the find has been discounted:
“I’VE SEEN NOTHING in official reports that would corroborate that,” Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal told reporters at the Pentagon. He was referring to news reports Monday that Marines had found rockets, possibly packed with sarin and a mustard agent, at a warehouse outside Baghdad.[/b] http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp