Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 11:12:42 AM

Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 11:12:42 AM
Guys
 I have heard both good things and bad things about it.  Like it does it's job well or it is a death trap...

Is it a good IFV?

How does it compare to the German and British ones?

You see them now and they have all this add on armor?

They look way different then when the first entered service?

What's the scoop?
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Monk on April 07, 2003, 11:32:01 AM
Excellent Vehicle, very similar too the British Warrior.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 12:38:46 PM
Some one was posting up here how it was a death trap and one of the bigest failures of the US army or something...

I know the news media went after it any time they could...


That does not mean much though since they went after the M1 abrams all the time and it has proven to be the worlds best MBT
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 12:40:38 PM
it was a death trap untill a congressional investigation on its development fixed that. The knock on it is that it still is to big to be a light tank and to small for a troop transport. Against a modern army it might have problems.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 12:43:12 PM
Frogm4n
 It is not a tank. Not supposed to fight them as far as I understand it.


What was in the investigation that had to be changed?
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 12:47:43 PM
oh, then you never seen the movie on the bradley. Or paid attention to pentagon goof offs.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: ra on April 07, 2003, 12:58:58 PM
Quote
oh, then you never seen the movie on the bradley. Or paid attention to pentagon goof offs.

That movie was typical made-for-HBO liberal propaganda.  Frikkin Olivia Dukakis played one of the main characters.  It was funny how the movie followed the development of the Bradley from the Nixon administration through the Reagan administration, and totally skipped the Carter administration.  Not exactly a historic document.

ra
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 01:03:28 PM
My father was a tank man his whole life(engineer).  He was involved with the M1 tank program from the time I can remember.  Nothing-and I mean nothing can touch an M1.  70 tons of  homogenous steel and depleted Uranium armor.  Gas turbine engines + the most advanced targeting system around.  70 tons means its usually TWICE as heavy as a comprable main battle tank.  Easily better than any Russian or European Crap......
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 01:05:19 PM
that facts that happened are still facts. it still costed way to much money. it was a death trap that the pentagon tried to push through without changeing. it still cant replace the vehicle that it was designed to replace the m113.  Its a damn good vehicle now, but if they didnt make those changes alot of US troops would be dieing in those things right now. Low level rpgs being able to turn the armor into a toxic gas for the troops on the inside sounds real nice.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 01:13:55 PM
oh yea and the bradley development was started in 1968 and completed in the early 80's with a cost of 14billion dollars and another 1 billion to fix its problems.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 01:14:36 PM
of course I knew that the M1 had a German Gun.  As for the Armor-I didn't know it nor do I believe it...
Title: Momoney
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 01:17:39 PM
I think GS is right, the Chobham armor is layered, with Steel, ceramic and now depleted uranium, but the original idea for the layered armor was British.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 01:18:24 PM
it is english armor, that is old news. why do you think it has such a gay name. chaubum or something.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Skuzzy on April 07, 2003, 01:19:42 PM
GS is quite right about the armor Momoney.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 01:34:23 PM
If its English Armor then why in the Hell does it weigh twice as much as any-other Main Battle tank.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 01:35:51 PM
the dodge engine.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 02:04:41 PM
(http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop113.jpg)
Title: Momoney
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 02:05:47 PM
Hate to piss on your fire but.

The M1A2 does not wiegh twice as much as any other tank.


The Brit Challenger 2 comes in at 68 tons, only two short of the M1, and I bet it is almost as good as the M1 as well.

Info on Brit tank (http://www.e-2-127.org/armorid/chal2.htm)
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 02:27:51 PM
Bah! oops! lol Damn metric!  

Im sure your right..
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: straffo on April 07, 2003, 02:38:09 PM
Quote
"So if you get into a fender bender, instead of saying "That guy banged me in the ass" can we now say I was "Dowded"? said by muckmaw...


dohhhh :)

Poor Dowding I'm dying laughting :)  !!!
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Pongo on April 07, 2003, 03:42:14 PM
Just so we are clear. Excellent tank but.
British designed armour.
German Designed gun
German Track as well I believe after the first models.
Canadian fire control computer on the first versions. (M1) dont know about the newer ones.
All that is just a pile of stuff unless you turn it into a tank though. After the US and Germany went their seperate ways on the MBT70 project they went away and developed nearly the same tank anyway.(the one the Germans wanted BTW)
The Challenger was made with materials put to gether for an order of tanks for Iran that had to be cancelled. So the British army benifited with new tanks they woudnt have other wise got at the time.
Even comapared to soviet tanks its not twice as heavy. I believe that T72s are in the 45 tone class.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 04:25:03 PM
Never heard of this Canadian Fire Control System.  I doubt it.  Canada doesn't make anyting worth a sht.  Like 70% of the entire country crosses the border every day to work in the US.  Then those terds boo our national anthem.  I wish Bush would start a Real Northern front and we Invade that  backwards country............
Title: Momoney
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 04:26:46 PM
Why don't you admit when you are wrong, and relax.......
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 04:27:26 PM
can you feel the love.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 04:27:50 PM
I not Wrong...M1 Tank 100% USA baby (except for Gun)
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 04:29:09 PM
heh it has all kinds of euro parts in it man. get over it, its not a big deal.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Skuzzy on April 07, 2003, 04:30:14 PM
MoMoney,...you seem to have issues.

Ever heard of the 9700Pro or 9800Pro video cards?  The fastest consumer video cards you can get...they happen to be from a Canadian company.
Not only faster than anything we can offer from America, but quieter and consume less power as well.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Skuzzy on April 07, 2003, 04:32:17 PM
MoMoney, the M1 is not 100% American.  Is does have some of the best technology available in the world though.

Aren't the engines built in Canada?
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 04:35:50 PM
I don't give an F.  I'm a HardCore American Nationalist.  I'm allied with a group that advocates complete US global domination.  We have thousands of Members in the US.  You can see us every weekend at NASCAR races.  We are the buck-tooth men and women waving confed. flags.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Martlet on April 07, 2003, 04:37:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MoMoney
Never heard of this Canadian Fire Control System.  I doubt it.  Canada doesn't make anyting worth a sht.  Like 70% of the entire country crosses the border every day to work in the US.  Then those terds boo our national anthem.  I wish Bush would start a Real Northern front and we Invade that  backwards country............


Anger deep in you I sense.  To the dark side you will go I sense.  Control your rage you must.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: straffo on April 07, 2003, 04:39:32 PM
GScholz as you look to have some knowledge (at least more than me) is the Leclerc the piece of crap I've heard off ?
Title: Momoney
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 04:39:39 PM
Oh yeah, I know you guys.

Your the ones who like to marry their 14 year old sisters?


Why don't you pick up a book about the M1, and find out how wrong you are...

Or go sleep with sis... :D
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Skuzzy on April 07, 2003, 04:41:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MoMoney
I don't give an F.  I'm a HardCore American Nationalist.  I'm allied with a group that advocates complete US global domination.  We have thousands of Members in the US.  You can see us every weekend at NASCAR races.  We are the buck-tooth men and women waving confed. flags.


That was a joke,..right?
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 04:43:38 PM
Yes..I don't like Candians though.......
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Skuzzy on April 07, 2003, 04:46:03 PM
Ever met one?  In real life that is.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Chanter on April 07, 2003, 04:50:13 PM
"The digital fire control computer is supplied by General Dynamics - Canada (formerly Computing Devices Canada). The fire control computer automatically calculates the fire control solution based on: lead angle measurement; bend of the gun measured by the muzzle reference system; velocity measurement from a wind sensor on the roof of the turret; data from a pendulum static cant sensor located at the centre of the turret roof. The operator manually inputs data on ammunition type, temperature, and barometric pressure. "

Read This (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/index.html) before opening your hole.  All the things Daddy never told you.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Hobodog on April 07, 2003, 05:05:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Heh MoMoney perhaps you think Chobham (as in Chobham armor) is a place in the US?

Now, lets take a closer look at the USArmy's weaponry. First the M16A2; excellent rifle, still needs to be kept clean, but an all round excellent rifle. That was the US part. You got Italian pistols, German sub-machineguns, Belgian machineguns, Swedish anti tank/bunker rockets, and your MBT has a German main gun and Belgian coaxial MG. Oh wait I almost forgot the Browning M2Hb, a very good American heavy machinegun ... using Norwegian multi-purpose ammo. Clear enough?


Yes all the small parts that could be easily reproduced in the US if needed. Now what about the tanks, aircraft, ships, bombs, etc?
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Hobodog on April 07, 2003, 05:26:40 PM
Primarily the most technologically advanced things come from the US. Its a blanket statement and you will try to prove it wrong. France made this, Germany made that. Oh wait im srry you made that and that we made all this. You combine its still not an equal. The US has a higher defense budget than all of those countries combined.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 05:53:50 PM
First of all.  General Dynamics is an AMERICAN company.  They happen to assemble the targeting system in Canada but it is US tech.  This is another example of Canadian Propaganda like:

1) Canada won the war of 1814
2) the Avro Arrow was the Greatest Plane of all time.  
3) People give an F about Hockey.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 07, 2003, 06:10:59 PM
Maybe one stole his girl... er I mean dated his sister?
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Skuzzy on April 07, 2003, 06:13:13 PM
MoMoney, you have a problem and cannot seem to get past it.

Do you own an American car?  Good chance a very high percentage of that car was either built in Canada, and/or a high percentage of the parts in the car are from Canada.

If this is some sort of personal bigotry, you need to keep it off this board.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Martlet on April 07, 2003, 06:13:57 PM
I hate spiders.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Pongo on April 07, 2003, 06:14:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MoMoney
First of all.  General Dynamics is an AMERICAN company.  They happen to assemble the targeting system in Canada but it is US tech.  This is another example of Canadian Propaganda like:

1) Canada won the war of 1814
2) the Avro Arrow was the Greatest Plane of all time.  
3) People give an F about Hockey.



lol
they bought the canadian company..to get the technology and nationalize it I would imagine.

1) isnt it 1812?
2) only canadians as dumb as you are believe that..they are rare but never the less they do exist.
3) someone in the US cares enough to pay canadians 4 million dollars a year to play the game. And they care enought to try to get the US judge in the womans olympic final to set the new olympic world record for cheating..
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Hangtime on April 07, 2003, 06:20:31 PM
*thunk* *thunk*

hello?

I wuz hoping to get an education on the Bradley... opened the thread, and instead i find a pissing contest with some poor canadians that ain't done nuthin ta nobody nohow being used as the pivot point of a circle jerk.

and wtf is a leClerk? A leAccountant with a smaller desk and no leSecretary?

Seems to me the Bradley's doin a hell of a job in sandland...
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: MoMoney on April 07, 2003, 06:35:42 PM
I don't want to get SKUZZY angry at me ....ok I give up..the M1 and F-22 were Toronto HighSchool science fair projects.  We stole it just like the avro arrow......
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 08:12:59 PM
i think 1945 german tanks wouldnt have much problems faceing the iraqis.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: jamusta on April 07, 2003, 09:13:15 PM
The bradley is a very good IFV. Its primary function is to protect M1's from dismounts. The 25mm cannon can reach out and kill easily at 1.5k. It has just proven that it can destroy a T72 with its main cannon. With its TOW missles ond optics it can defend itself at 4k. It can take RPG hits but anything bigger like a Dragon missle and its toast. Put it up with any BMP even the BMP3 and it will destroy it. Only reason countries buy the russian armour is that they are inexpensive.

As far as the M1. Yes the technology comes frome many different countries. But its all in the packaging. The armour is from Britain but was modified. In its thickest armour it is said to be 4" equivalent to 18 inches of battleship steel. No one realy knows except who designed it since its classified. If you plan on killing it you better be close and a side or rear shot. The front of a M1 can take a shot from a TOW missile.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 07, 2003, 09:30:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
i think 1945 german tanks wouldnt have much problems faceing the iraqis.


No they would be slaughtered, even the simplest iraqi T-55 is  better gunned than a King Tiger and has the same or greater level of frontal protection and then of course there are advances in sighting and night vision. Now the germans had night vision in ww2 but it was not widely used.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Hangtime on April 07, 2003, 09:59:54 PM
(http://cagle.slate.msn.com/comics/updating/duffy.gif)
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Pongo on April 07, 2003, 10:00:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MoMoney
I don't want to get SKUZZY angry at me ....ok I give up..the M1 and F-22 were Toronto HighSchool science fair projects.  We stole it just like the avro arrow......


Better reason to give up is your making an idiot of yourself.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Frogm4n on April 07, 2003, 11:18:38 PM
your forgeting the operators of those t55s and t70s
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: AdmRose on April 07, 2003, 11:28:07 PM
If you have anything GM, good chance it was assembled in Canada.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 08, 2003, 12:03:47 AM
Bradley is doing fine.. :D
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: straffo on April 08, 2003, 01:27:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
No the LeClerc isn't a bad tank. Infact I would think it's more versatile than the "three heavies". Weighing "only" 56 tons the LeClerc enjoy a greater degree of mobility in the European landscape. The LeClerc's got a good gun with a high rate of fire (12 rounds per min). I've read it had some reliability problems (it's French you know ;)), but that it got mostlly sorted out in the 1998 Mk II upgrade. I know it's a highly computerized tank, very much on par with the M1 in that regard.

What have you heard about the LeClerc?


(http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leclerc/images/leclerc18.jpg)


I've heard it from a previoux AMX 30 owner (at least he pretend to be ;) ) his concern were more fiablity as you said.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Monk on April 08, 2003, 11:28:06 AM
The Bradley is a great piece of equipment.
The M1 and Challenger "Own" the battlefield now. I would give the edge to the Challenger. (this coming from a Gunner on a M1 in the Gulf War).
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 08, 2003, 11:34:14 AM
Why? The brits still us that two piece ammo and a rifled gun dont they? I read that always hurt them in the NATO competions..
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Monk on April 08, 2003, 11:40:10 AM
Heck of a better gas milage, but since we stole the worlds oil............muhahahaha, doesn't really matter.;)
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 08, 2003, 11:41:14 AM
Yes, that turbine is thirsty..  But it sounds cool..
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: Monk on April 08, 2003, 11:53:16 AM
......and if the wind is blowing right,  the enemy doesn't hear a thing. (snicker, snicker...........we are so mean.)
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 08, 2003, 11:55:31 AM
LOL :D
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: midnight Target on April 08, 2003, 12:02:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ever met one?  In real life that is.


I've met both Canadians... they are nice people.
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: AWMac on April 08, 2003, 12:41:42 PM
There are TWO of them????  Holy watermelon an ambush!!!!

:D
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: gofaster on April 08, 2003, 01:07:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
You miss the point. They ARE produced in the US. The gun is German designed, but is made on license in the US. The Armor was developed by the British, but is made (and modified) in the US.

Is the M1A1 the best tank in the world? I would say yes ... Is it "Made in the US of A"? Absolutely ... Is it made of US technology? No, most of it was developed outside the US, but you did a good job in putting it all together. Get it?

All the other weapons I mentioned are also made in the US ... on license.


That's nothing new.  We've been doing it for years.  Just look at what the Packard company did with the license-built Merlin engines that went into the D model P-51.  We actually made it so that the engine parts were interchangable! :p
Title: M2/M3 Bradley
Post by: gofaster on April 08, 2003, 01:09:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
(http://cagle.slate.msn.com/comics/updating/duffy.gif)


Hilarious!