Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vadr on September 12, 2000, 11:04:00 PM
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Hiya,
Here's the deal:
I'm especially interested in USAAF bomber losses on the two Schweinfurt-Regensburg raids in the Fall of '43. Any other instance where B17's and/or B24's fought the Luftwaffe without fighter escort would also be instructive:
We already have plenty of data on total losses for both sides during these two raids, what I need is the total or approximate number of bombers broken down as:
Losses to Fighters
Losses to Flak/AAA
Please, let's not turn this into an otto/anti-otto flamefest. If you've the data, or can point me to it, I'd appreciate the help. If you don't, please save the heat for another thread while I try to get the facts.
Thanks Much
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://www.jg2.org/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
vadr@jg2.org
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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I think I found some of what you're looking for. Check here (http://www.thehistorynet.com/AviationHistory/articles/1999/09992_text.htm) for some info. Seems the B-17s were escorted only part-way to target, and met half-way on the return leg. This was done by P-47s according to the article.
Another place to check is here (http://www.leesaunders.com/html/Schfurt.htm)
I didn't read the entire thing, but it does have some info about the raid.
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
[This message has been edited by flakbait (edited 09-13-2000).]
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I remember that on the August 17th raid, 10 Bombers were lost to flak and 50 were lost to the Luftwaffe, JG(r) 50 sent up 30 Bf109G6/R6 and shot down 16 bombers alone without a loss to themselves.
August 17th:
10 losses to flak
50 losses to LW
36 were lost from the Schweinfurt formation
24 from the Regensburg formation
25 LW fighters were shot down
I can't find any data about the October 14th raid, except of course that 60 B17s were lost. I would assume the losses of August 17th would be similar to the losses in the October raid.
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BEAT DOWN POSSE
www.theregulators.org/bdp
(http://pobox2.zyan.com/~nath/haha.jpg)
Aces High Scenario Corps
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Nath, those are about the numbers I remember as well, but I can't find the reference I got them from, and I need to be able to quote a source.
If you can find one, please post it.
Thanks folks, keep the help coming!
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://www.jg2.org/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
vadr@jg2.org
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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"Bf 109F/G/K Aces of the Western Front" by John Weal
"Chronicle of the Second World War" Longman Chronicle
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 09-13-2000).]
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://www.jg2.org/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
vadr@jg2.org
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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Vadr,
you can add to your references also this beautiful book:
"Wrong place, wrong time!"
George C.Khul
Schiffer Military History
ISBN 0-88740-445-6
It is the story of the 305th BG in the 2nd Schweinfurt Raid. The 1st Division lost 45 out of 60 B17 that day ....
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Again, during the 1st raid:
47,5 B17 lost to single engined fighters
2,5 B17 lost to twin engined fighters
9 B17 lost to Flak
1 B17 lost due to technical problems
"The Schweinfurt-Reensburg Mision"
M.Middlebrook
Penguin Books