Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on November 19, 2001, 02:58:00 PM
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I came very close to canceling my account here today because of the crap that has been thrown around here over the last couple of days. I'm not going to, I enjoy the game too much and like most of the people, but some of them....
Why do certain people like to play this game? They obviously only find it a source of antagonism and horrible favoritism of the things they hate?
Why do they keep coming back?
I am sick and tired of the whining about nerfed LW aircraft and over modeled non-LW aircraft.
If you have evidence, fine, but otherwise please keep it to yourself.
I'm tired of people who will ONLY fly aircraft modeled on the aircraft of one historical nation (yes, Germany) squeaking and moaning about how it isn't fair that the aircraft they like aren't the best at everything (because they were, you know).
Look, I'm sorry if you can't take a bloody 109 and go kill 15 Spitfires in one flight like your heroes did, but those are fake, overblown exagerations.
Try balancing your viewpoints and not constantly attacking anything that isn't LW, while persistantly whining about all things that are LW.
Its fine to like German aircraft, I like German aircraft. Just don't get so caught up in the mythology of it that you become blinded. It isn't "Defending LW aircraft", its presenting yourself as a love muffin that nobody takes seriously.
Reasoned and reasonable statements will win infinitely more arguments than the kind of hyperbole that is usually put out by certain people.
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My suggestion:
Don't let the vocal minority influence you into thinking they are the majority...
just a suggestion
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ummmmmmmm.....uh......ummmmmm .....err.....ummmmmmmmm...... ...
:eek:
i can't wait to read the responses to this one. roflmao :eek:
The Tuckster
"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Col. Chuck Yeager, USAAF
(http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/lawnd2a.gif)
(http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/bastard1.jpg)
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Why are some people here so aggressively hostile?
Karnak, the same reasons people are hostile in real life. Depression, alcoholism, poor impulse control, and I daresay some sociopaths too.
The main thing is to keep focused on the topic of discussion, not on the merits of the people who are taking part in the discussion. Some people can't help but make it personal, and that's when things break down. Make sure you don't "go personal" and if other people do it, end the discussion.
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Uhmmm Karnak why do you feel that only LW guys complain. Allied complain just as much about their SpitIXs and P47D11s props and F4Us and P38s and F6F stall modeling. Still others want changes to Yaks and La7s or Japanese aircraft.
I find it strange why only the LW concerns piss you off so much while you never notice all the Spit or P47 or whatever plane complaint threads.
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Oh god, here we go again.
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Cause it don't hurt so much when you get virtually punched in the nose. :D
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Karnak,
Please do not paint all the fans of german iron with such a broad brush. We are not all "LuftWhiners".
Hell, I don't even want the damn FW's fixed or made any better. They are potent killers now and if improved every jackhole will be flying them.
F.
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Damn Karnak..these LW guys are gonna get "aggresively hostile" :)
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Grun, it's the method some of these guys use to get their point across.
I don't think anyone complains so feverishly and so mindlessly about ANY aircraft as RAM does.
And he associates himself with the LW, and thus he has earned himself and a majority of the LW enthusiasts a place in the LWhiner book.
Now, if you muzzle him and the half dozen others running amock on this board complaining about this, that and the other thing with regards to the German aircraft, then I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't be so quick to call LW enthusiasts whiners.
It's all about style, approach and method- unfortunately a lot of the guys who want LW aircraft fix have none of the above and generally a post to get 1 minor thing adjusted will turn out like so:
"I think the 190[insert submodel here]'s top speed at 20K is off by 12MPH. The above chart shows. It is a blatantly obvious mistake by HTC. This [insert demanding word here] to be fixed.
Today I was flying in a 190[insert previously used submodel here]at 25K and I ran into a [insert any common plane here] which was poorly flown. I managed to outmanuever him and had more energy. I went into the vertical and the [insert previously used common plane here] followed me up, even though I was clearly faster than he! I got shot by a [insert either Hispano or .50 lazers] and lost half my elevator. I dove down to 20K where my 190[insert previously used submodel here] is clearly faster than [insert previously used common plane here] according to this chart. Had the 190[insert previously used submodel here] had been it's correct speed, I would of gotten away alive. And the zoom or energy retention of the [insert previously used common plane here] needs to be looked at because I was clearly faster and he was able to keep his nose pointed at me!
I demand you take a look at these glaring errors now!"
That's just a summation of just about every post done by a pro-LW guy anti-everythingelseguy who believes he's being duped based on a few errors of HIS plane and based on assumptions of what he saw.
And the fact that they always have to throw in something about how their poor plane is undermodelled while the Ahmurikan planes are overmodelled with super guns.
This isn't my opinion either, I can point you to two threads that are in the same forum and are at the top of the list that clearly show just how whiney some of the LW crew can be.
-SW
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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I think (hope) what Karnak wanted to say is, that it is not the matter of who "whines" about his plane is 1 inch to long. It's a matter of how some people post responses and use profanity to offend someone.
I'm relative new to AH and BB's and i find it annoying how much lack of respect is in here.
If someone dont like whines/topics about something then their is no MUST for him to read the thread. Neither there is a MUST to post profanity nor to whine about the whiner or to insult or offend him.
In the hope that this is not a "Oh god, here we go again"-Thread ;)
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Why are some people here so aggressively hostile?
Two words:
"Small noodlees" :)
dago
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HT MY PLANE IS PORKED I REPLACED THE JET PODS UNDER THE WINGS WITH KEGS OF BEER AND NOW IT WONT GO ANYWHERE OR TAKE OFF OR FLY AND I CANT SHOOT ITS NO FUN!!! THIS IS TOTAL BS MY PLANE SHOULD HAVE A PROP SO I CAN KEEP THE KEG GONDOLAS AND IT SHOULD CLIMB LIKE THE JAY JAY SHOW SAYS IT CAN OR ITS BS WHEN WILL YOU FIX THIS WHY DO YOU HATE JAY JAY PLANES SO MUCH????????? I KNOW YOU LIKE THE WWII PLANES MUCH BETTER SO YOU MODEL THEM RIGHT THIS SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://www.matthoffman.cc/bb/jj.gif)
SOB
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Actually GRUNHERZ and RAM are two LW aircraft fans that I like. They are both reasonable, IMHO. RAM used to be too hot, but he has calmed down quite a bit.
I don't see a whole group in this fashion. I try not to even use derogatory references for a group that isn't really a cohesive group, e.g. "Luffewaffles" or "Luftwhiners".
Yes, there are others who complain about certain aircraft, but I haven't see the most agressive of them, Nashwan, launch into a tirade massively distorting the situation. I haven't seen him fly off the handle and accuse people of blatantly false things. Those who request fixes, or improvements to orther aircraft, with few exceptions, either stick to their own subjects or insert non-abusive coments into other's threads.
Furious,
I like German aircraft too. I just don't fly them constantly. I certainly didn't mean to paint all fans of German aircraft into the same picture. Sorry if I appeared to.
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is there a "passively hostile"?
:D
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
I find it strange why only the LW concerns piss you off so much while you never notice all the Spit or P47 or whatever plane complaint threads.
Us P-47D11 guys have something you guys don't...An objective, valid point.
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Ammos sentiment of agressive and dimissive arrogance is no different and no less inapppropriate than any of the LW attitude Karnak is complaing about.
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]
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Karnak. You have to look at the tone of your own posts. You often like to drag the lw types into your discussions about RAF stuff. You too often stereo type them and belittle them. I enjoy the topics of your posts, but the tone is exactly the type of thing you are complaining about here.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Ammos sentiment of agressive and dimissive arrogance is no different and no less inapppropriate than any of the LW attitude Karnak is complaing about.
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]
naa, I am a popsiclecat, and I wanted to push the right button. It seemed that now was the time to do so..and considering that You are an easy target, I took a liberty. I sincerely apologise Grun.
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Shrug, some people are actively agressive (I suppose I fall into this category), and some people are passively-aggresive (I'm sure that term is in your Intro. to Pysch text Karnak, look it up if you don't know what it means). You happen to be passively-aggresive, and you can't understand why nobody wants to have a catty little war of words with you. You keep yanking people's chains, don't be surprised when they snap at you.
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Originally posted by Dago:
Two words:
"Small noodlees" :)
dago
??? I'm not hostile! (http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/ruinkai/rolleyea.gif)
Tumor
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Pongo,
It isn't just in response to me.
I see these kinds of responses from certain people whenever they seem to feel that "their" aircraft is threatened.
Urchin's first post in the "Spitfire IX is too slow" thread was to fly completely off the handle.
Chron posted the following:
How about making the current Spit an early 61 engined F with the B armament package (good for scenarios) but bring in a bubble-top XVI with the packard merlin, LF wing and E-armament package? I'm all for that :)Lets get it right and get a reasonable (non XIV) late war Spit in the MA. It's only fair after all :)
And Urchin responded with this:
Actually, that sounds real good. I really think we should introduce whatever the fastest spit was, it will make the dweebs life SO much easier. No longer will they have to choose between the fastest plane OR the best turner, instead they can get it all with just one plane! We can also just remove 95% of the planes we have in the game to have different skins for the 1 plane that will see 95% of all the usage in the game(you know, so all the dweebs don't look alike- that is the only way to introduce a little variety, especially since everyone would be flying the same plane).
Then I got testy/downright unpleasant towards him and he ending up accusing me of all sorts of things that simply arne't true.
Online today I heard way to many "Shitfire" comments as well as a steady fly of complaints about Hispanos, Browning 50 cals and N1K2s.
What I'm frusterated with and tired of are the few people who present themselves as superior because of the aircraft they choose to fly in a game and the people who constantly insinuate that there is some sort of conspiracy against their toys.
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excercise your keyboards fellas! .squelch moron is used alot with me. Soo if someone throws a <S> my way, I apologise for not returning it.
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Well the initial post started out with a valid point, then it went into the crapper bringing up the LWhiner thing again.
I fly LW aircraft most of the time and my squadmates and I find success in all of them. Success being a 1 to 1 kill ratio, maybe more, I haven't figured it out. But it is a great feeling beating a F4U, N1K2, or a LA7 in air to air combat while flying a 109F4. Sure I lose alot, but that is the nature of the game.
There are alot of new simmers comming into the game and they may get the feeling that all LW squadrons whine and complain about the LW aircraft. This is extremely far from the truth, but post like this tend to support that theory.
So please, if you have to call this to everyones attention, pick out specifics and do not draw all the virtual LW aircraft fliers into it. It would be appriciated by those who fly LW aircraft with the lack of complaint.
It's bad for press.
Thank You and have a nice day! :)
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Swager ]
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My little leprechaun friend told me he thinks this is going to win the W.O.T.W.
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you whiner "whiners" are usaully the ones to drag threads out even if they are ugly or not.
I dont know why you feel it necessary to reply to every whine you see.
So what someone whined......
now im gonna go whine about that type of whiner and ignore this whiner because this whines whines with me when we whine against those whiners.
How hard is it when you see a whine to simply close the thread and movbe on?
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Heh karnak, look at your thread.
Look att the broad brush you're using. Look at the language.
It's a very hostile post.
People respond in kind. You've basically called the majority of the LW people idiots and have explained that you hate them because they spoil your fun and are spoiling the game.
Never mind the "y00 sux00rs" newbies and the gunman like comments. And if you do a search of the board, you'll see that there are many ill spirited posts comming from your allied friends: you're not at the receiving end of them so probably don't notice them too much. But, believe me, they're there.
You might hate me, but I still love you. Smooch smooch, lots of kisses, and will drop by tonight :D
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give it a rest guys ... this stuff gets real old, real fast
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Karnak said
Look, I'm sorry if you can't take a bloody 109 and go kill 15 Spitfires in one flight like your heroes did, but those are fake, overblown exagerations.
Well, I can! :p
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Hey! Everybody has an amazinhunk...It's just that these mouthy hostile types have their's firmly secured around their neck!
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Originally posted by funkedup:
Karnak, the same reasons people are hostile in real life. Depression, alcoholism, poor impulse control, and I daresay some sociopaths too.
The main thing is to keep focused on the topic of discussion, not on the merits of the people who are taking part in the discussion. Some people can't help but make it personal, and that's when things break down. Make sure you don't "go personal" and if other people do it, end the discussion.
Funkedup .... <S>
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Just get rid of showing kills, that would cure the problem.. just take a look at WWII OL, nobody can curse at each other since they don't know who killed them.
Theres no public cross country channel either though ;)
Anyways, I could be serious of taking away printed kill credits... more historical ;)
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Yep... I hate hostile people too and...
the reason LW guys are whiners is because they are slow witted bullies with tiny little members who's only knowledge of history comes from reading a couple of gushy "I flew for the master race" romance novels.
But... look at the good side. It is lazs's axiom that.... LW guys are whiny and petulant when things are modeled correctly and arrogant and insuferable when they are modeled improperly so.... Whiny LW guys is a sign of a good sim modeled properly.
lazs
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Karnak,
Stop with this pansy ansy "I didn't mean to paint" crap. If your going to squeak about someone "whining" (over used 1st grade word), call their bloody names on it. Those of us in the room yesterday know who ur talking about. Why not just say his bloody name.
Btw...this post belongs in the O club not really General discussion material.
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I see more "passion of opinion" rather than any real hostility here. We're no different from people who enthusiastically and boisterously talk about thier favorite sport and it's players with others.
Westy
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um... well, I like the LW planes. Anyone who doesn't think the plane they fly is 'good enough' can fly something else, don't you think?
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Why are some people here so aggressively hostile?
I doubt that it has anything to do with LW aircraft modeling.
Bitter people (like myself) usually just feel like the shaft is always sniffing at your pooper and are tired of feeling it day after day.
Frankly, I don't see why anyone would whine about an LW plane in particular unless they don't see the bigger picture.
My beef lately is this roadkill lag that has followed the new servers. It' doesn't matter what plane it is, the lag is having a terrible effect on my ability to survive a fight. And all HTC can say is that the 5ms Host Queue has nothing to do with it.
Fact is, when the Queue was 0, I had no problems.
A fellow named Mage heard many such complaints 2 1/2 years ago from myself and several others. Many of us got fed up and came to see then new AH beta. Mage never did listen and now everyone is blaming EA for the AW demise.
Why are some people here so aggressively hostile?
Because when they speak, no one listens, but when they get hostile, EVERYONE notices.
Viper
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If it wasn't for Trolls these boards would fade into dusty oblivion.
Trolls are the unpaid "agents provocateur" of the flamers who would whither and die without them.
Both are here for my amusement. YMMV.
[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: DamnedBuzzard ]
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It's the relative anonymity afforded by the web: nobody can see you, they don't know who you really are, and they don't know where you are, so it makes it easy to be ten times more mean and aggressive than you are in real life. Kind of like road rage. Wrap a big vehicle around a weenie and they become a little Napoleon, out to conquer the highways. Not too much different when you give 'em a chat buffer to work with.
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Originally posted by lazs1:
Yep... I hate hostile people too and...
who's only knowledge of history comes from reading a couple of gushy "I flew for the master race" romance novels.
I have to admire this turn of phrase.
I remember Rod Serling giving a lecture - touching on the Nazi glorification phenomenon of the early 1970s - saying that he wouldn't be surprised to see a Saturday morning cartoon series, "The Merry Men of Auschwitz."
- Oldman
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LOL.....i love this game, sometimes the forum is almost more fun than flying.
44MAG
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Why are some people here so aggressively hostile?
Anonimity?
Nobody knows who they in real life are. This is the place to let it out. Here they can say everything what they never would dare to say in public. It's a safety vent maybe. Better this than running arround with a loaded gun.
The topic is of no importance, only the possibility to make a shocking childish statement does count.
Just my 5c
sailor
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I fly german aircrafts (109 G-2) coz I like to fly airplane with Finnish tags and its great feeling to fly airplane that has historical significance that touches me.
I havent played this for long but I have flown other planes too and they just dont have the feeling that 109G2 has.
I think that the history is part of the game
otherwise I could fly Crimson Skies (wich is really fun game actually) and if some1 "knows" a way to improve historical accuracy then I think he should tell that to HiTech@comp and not whine about it when he/she gets shot down.
(havent seen that though)
Call me sickNtwisted but I prefer German planes.
:D :D
PS. Those flightmodels are fine for me. The 109G2 is not undermodelled in my opinion but is nevertheless a challengin plane to fly and that is part of the magic.
I havent flown anything IRL and I have no idea how 109er flew in the real skies, but if some1 has and knows some flaws
bout this AH-version then he has right to whine. imho :)
[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: SereWiz ]
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There are some decent LW devotees out there. Santa is not one them. :D Leather bound pervert that he is.
I just get the impression from many posts on this board and through the game in general that:
a) Modelling of LW aircraft is generally 'off', in a negative way; LW planes should be much better than they currently are.
b) Certain, popular non-LW rides are generally 'off', in a positive way; these planes should be much worse than they currently are.
Then you get the conflicting 'I'm uber because I fly an underdog LW plane, which is actually undermodelled, by the way'. It doesn't make much sense to me.
But persistent, focussed whining by an individual gets my goat. The main symptom of this afflication is usually the inability to post without mentioning a pet hate. It might be hispanos or the La-7 or the Chog for instance.
I'm all for historical accuracy. But some people get obsessed by it, and become very irritating and very dull, very fast.
[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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what the heck is aggressively hostile?
that doesnt sound right to me. otoh hysterically funny sounds ok so im not sure if this is correct english?
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I believe there are probably a few doctors around that can correct me if I get this wrong. Karnak, I believe the medical term for this phenomenon is 'cranial rectitus' (i.e. head up their ass). It helps if you think of them as sitting on their brains.
Why sort this one whine as so special? The one I get really sick of is the "why are bishops and knights picking on us?" whine. Meanwhile we're down to seven fields and feeling the crushing might of twenty-five cons at every field.
These guys that whine on open channel are simply venting their frustrations concerning the last clubbing they received. Some of these fools get really stupid when they have the numerical advantage, so when they die it has to be someone elses fault.
The squelch command still works, you know?
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I think I said it better.
lazs
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I suppose anytime one makes any kind of comment over CH1, it will or can be considered aggressively hostile. It may also be supposed that anytime one says anything over CH1 or in here, it is hostile. Thing is, the person who has "heard" the comments is the one who considers a comment hostile. You can't control how a person is gonna "hear" your comments. Just as some comments are considered whines by whomever in here or in the MA. Agressive? Well, this is a combat sim, if ya don't come with yer aggression packed ya may as well not fly, because everyone else will be :)
Sheesh! Pyro or HT can't show up in the MA without someone lobbying them for some kind of change to the FM or plane types or whatever. One person, speaking for everyone or, just for themselves. It's the nature of this sim, and the community of players to be this way. Hell, why ask why?
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heh that sux becose i em surely 1 of the LW nerved , but the frekin diference is i pay and NOT play the game !!!!!
now around 20 days not playing, prefering reading BBS for hours like to quake the bird
and feling very well and not thinking at all to unsucribe from AH ,
i hate only whiners about whine
:D
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"Word Warrior" can be fun if done with a good spirit.
Regarding whining and complaints,
A very wise man in a sim long ago and far far away once said:
"You could get 'em all laid and they'd still squeak!"
It's true :)
-W
Originally posted by john9001:
LOL.....i love this game, sometimes the forum is almost more fun than flying.
44MAG
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excuse me, in case y'all haven't noticed he did apologize accept it and quit beatin' the horse it's dead already.
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Nice discussion.
BTW...what's LW?
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The same thing that makes you come back creates the hostility.
This "THING" is the fun / frustration element of the game and is what keeps HTC in bussiness.
Pick your poison....
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My cats as smells like catshit.
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What's invisible and smells like worms?
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"Bird Farts"
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Excuse my noobiness....but what has a cat's bellybutton and a bird's fart got to do with Spitfires and 109s?
:confused: