Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on April 09, 2003, 06:18:50 PM
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http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/8/210231.shtml
I now have hope that people in France are not all Chiraq types.
Sorry for the paste.......
Alain Madelin has labored in the political vineyards of France for 34 years, including service in three French administrations with President Jacques Chirac
"inside Chirac's majority, a lot of politicians are, in their hearts, with the United States. And now, a good number of editors are saying that France went too far"
Madelin, a lawyer and former minister of economy, finance and industry under the Balladur Government, said, "Resolution 1441 'authorizes member states to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution.' In the U.N. language, this means force."
"I want to tell you that there are a large number of French people -- a number I work to increase every day, who understand and support the military intervention... [because] it not only serves American interests, it also serves the interests of the free world, and, in the long run, the cause of peace."
On January 27, 2003, chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix reported that Iraq was not compliant with the Security Council's demands. "This was a clear casus belli [a political occurrence that brings about a declaration of war] that legitimized an intervention," Madelin told his audience.
"The military intervention is not outside but within international law. France should side with the United States to liberate the Iraqi people from the tyrannical regime of Saddam Hussein. France should not side with Saddam Hussein to defeat the Americans."
Madelin said the French President's decision to stay out of the struggle against the Iraqi dictator, was, in part, a pandering to the "anti-American tendencies" of political leftists in France, whom Madelin termed "orphans of Marxism."
The worst danger the world could face would be to see this superpower being tempted by isolationism. This is why I think France and Europe should side with America today. We always had common values and common enemies. Indeed, I do not forget that you protected Europe from the Soviet threat."
Hoping that "French opinion and world public opinion would soon open their eyes" about the Coalition's purpose in Iraq, Madelin said, "I wish for a victory that will liberate Iraq as fast as possible from the dreadful tyranny of Saddam Hussein and get rid of the threat he represents in his region and for the world."
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Hmmmm.....sounds like there's at least one sober Frenchman.
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Or do you just hear the sound of cats scratching hard on a tile floor?
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That sounds like a french guy even Hang could hug.
F.
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ah oui , now zat zee waar is ovar, we shall support it. long live zee french republic.
PS , and please buy our fine whine an cheezz
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Originally posted by Toad
Or do you just hear the sound of cats scratching hard on a tile floor?
ROFL!!
only somebody who's spent years on a cats staff would understand the subtle and powerful statement that truly is.
"change the kitty litter, or the next turd's in yer sneaker"
;)
Toad, I share the sentiment.. I remain hopeful the european community gets it's litter box squared away. Lately, the place has smelled like cat ass.
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I guess no one told her about the billions of dollars at stake?
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She is a he
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Wow, that's well written and conveys the important points succinctly.
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Dammit this guy got my vote...
(comprenne qui pourra)
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Baaa.... its alittle damn late now. I quess support is EASY since they saw the Iraqi people dancing in the streets and the stories they have to tell.
I personaly want allies like Britain that'll stand w/us when the sh(* is thick and the world against us. Fair weather friends we can find by the truck loads.
I truely feel that the nations of the former eastern block will turn out to be some of our most staunch allies w/the Brits in the future. They have lived w/indiv's who have had the power of Saddam over them and realise what him and his ilk are. They have no delusions that people choose to live w/a brutal dictator type over them.
I'm sorry..but after hearing 1/3 of France was hoping Saddam would win was simply to much.
I think a majority of Americans would agree. They burned thier bridges so to speak.... they might NEVER be built back.
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No Bat ,it's newsmax which is late...
Obnubilated by their french bashing US Media completly forgot that some French were supporting US policy
(I didn't support GWB policie but Madelin was and since month)
Originally posted by batdog
I'm sorry..but after hearing 1/3 of France was hoping Saddam would win was simply to much.
It's 1/3 of the "representatives Parisian" polled ...
To be more precise ,is a poll conducted in for exemple NY representative ?
When working in Paris (3 year) I was polled more than 15 time ... in 10 year living in Nantes I was never polled ...
Those "representatives" french make me laugh... just look up how those poll were wrong during french president election ..
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Yea..you got a point Straffo. I heard that Paris has a large Turkish-Arabic population? Could that of been the bais? Or is it more like America where the more liberal indiv tend to dwell in the cosmopoltian areas ie large cities?
Anyway it doesnt matter because nations seem to have short memories. It'll all work out w/in one year. I think BUSH is going to try and do some patch work w/the UN. I'd say w/Franch and Germany as well for the sake of NATO.
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And that is why I will NEVER consider the US a friend of France.
Now that it's all over, even Straffo is trying to spin that France was with us all along, it's the media that wasn't.
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Originally posted by Martlet
And that is why I will NEVER consider the US a friend of France.
Now that it's all over, even Straffo is trying to spin that France was with us all along, it's the media that wasn't.
pose cette bouteille tout de suite !
Serioulsy now ,I don't pretend such think, I just said that some French were on you side but your media were so noisy/buzy bashing us that none noticed that.
Again I was (and I'm still) anti-war without UN mandat(*).
Is that clear ?
(*) my very own position still standing.
Yea..you got a point Straffo. I heard that Paris has a large Turkish-Arabic population? Could that of been the bais? Or is it more like America where the more liberal indiv tend to dwell in the cosmopoltian areas ie large cities?
Exact there is a lot more Algerian-Morroco population in Paris suburbs and as in USA citizen living in big town tend to be more on the left than in the countryside.
Anyway it doesnt matter because nations seem to have short memories. It'll all work out w/in one year. I think BUSH is going to try and do some patch work w/the UN. I'd say w/Franch and Germany as well for the sake of NATO.
yep, in fact we share a lot of things.
The real shocking fact for me was the incredible amount of French bashing revealed ...
I know some american still picture us as stinking arrogant bastard but I was not figuring it was a national sport.
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Originally posted by straffo
pose cette bouteille tout de suite !
Serioulsy now ,I don't pretend such think, I just said that some French were on you side but your media were so noisy/buzy bashing us that none noticed that.
Again I was (and I'm still) anti-war without UN mandat(*).
Is that clear ?
(*) my very own position still standing.
Exact there is a lot more Algerian-Morroco population in Paris suburbs and as in USA citizen living in big town tend to be more on the left than in the countryside.
yep, in fact we share a lot of things.
The real shocking fact for me was the incredible amount of French bashing revealed ...
I know some american still picture us as stinking arrogant bastard but I was not figuring it was a national sport.
Well Straffo... you have to admit most French seem to look upon American "Culture" like one would look at something they steped in. The sad fact is that most French I have met have always reinforced that attitude. I'm talking French Officers, and at least one French Bartender waaaay down south.
I think the attitude of your leadership didnt help alot ethier. Americans felt betrayed. I'm amazed Germany didnt catch more grief.
I will say that my observations/interactions w/the French on this board ie yourself and Frenchy have allways been mostly postive w/some exceptions of course. We simply drift on the far side of the Political spectrum. This is a good thing...balance is needed in the world.
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Originally posted by batdog
Well Straffo... you have to admit most French seem to look upon American "Culture" like one would look at something they steped in. The sad fact is that most French I have met have always reinforced that attitude. I'm talking French Officers, and at least one French Bartender waaaay down south.
Believe it or not I'm not against eating a hamburger for exemple and I'm not alone ;).
The american bashing is a speciality of Extreme-left and surprisingly extreme-right in France the average "joe" (Jean in french ;)) just don't care.
The culture defense is done by some elitist parisian groups trying to preserve their interrest without even trying to make a single effort.
Not that I disagree complelty we have to find some way to preserve our difference but their lobbying is plain boring.
I don't think the average French citizen is very different from the US one (except obvious thinks like language and some background)
I think the attitude of your leadership didnt help alot ethier. Americans felt betrayed. I'm amazed Germany didnt catch more grief.
I was astonished by this feeling as for me it was not a betraying but more the affirmation that we think differently
The actuall outcome of Iraq war look to be quite good ,it's in fact less human costly than a revolution and better it work !
So I was wrong when thinking that was the way to lead to a pan-arabims explosion and a strong nationalistic reaction from the Iraqi.
I will say that my observations/interactions w/the French on this board ie yourself and Frenchy have allways been mostly postive w/some exceptions of course. We simply drift on the far side of the Political spectrum. This is a good thing...balance is needed in the world.
Yep we are different and it's the reason why the link between our country should be rebuild not forgiving our differences.
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Originally posted by batdog
Well Straffo... you have to admit most French seem to look upon American "Culture" like one would look at something they steped in.
I think the attitude of your leadership didnt help alot ethier. Americans felt betrayed.
I will say that my observations/interactions w/the French on this board ie yourself and Frenchy have allways been mostly postive w/some exceptions of course.
hmm wierd...american culture looks upon the French in the same way.....dog chit.
Ireally do hope you feel betrayed....cause you did the same too me....
I really hope I'm the exception....see I don't have the big body of water to seperate us....
I get your watermelon 24/7......and I get watermelon from all of you on this board....but unlike straffo....I interact much more with americans then he does.....
and the attitude was mostly negative.....some french suck....but so do alot of you americans.....
suck it up chump.....
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Originally posted by SLO
hmm wierd...american culture looks upon the French in the same way.....dog chit.
Ireally do hope you feel betrayed....cause you did the same too me....
I really hope I'm the exception....see I don't have the big body of water to seperate us....
I get your watermelon 24/7......and I get watermelon from all of you on this board....but unlike straffo....I interact much more with americans then he does.....
and the attitude was mostly negative.....some french suck....but so do alot of you americans.....
suck it up chump.....
ROTFL.... could you pleassssssseeeeee snivvveellllllllll some more.
I'm sorry that YOU personaly feel betrayed. Seek help ... the "feel sorry for me posts" are getting a tad lame.
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Originally posted by straffo
Believe it or not I'm not against eating a hamburger for exemple and I'm not alone ;).
The american bashing is a speciality of Extreme-left and surprisingly extreme-right in France the average "joe" (Jean in french ;)) just don't care.
The culture defense is done by some elitist parisian groups trying to preserve their interrest without even trying to make a single effort.
Not that I disagree complelty we have to find some way to preserve our difference but their lobbying is plain boring.
I don't think the average French citizen is very different from the US one (except obvious thinks like language and some background)
I was astonished by this feeling as for me it was not a betraying but more the affirmation that we think differently
The actuall outcome of Iraq war look to be quite good ,it's in fact less human costly than a revolution and better it work !
So I was wrong when thinking that was the way to lead to a pan-arabims explosion and a strong nationalistic reaction from the Iraqi.
Yep we are different and it's the reason why the link between our country should be rebuild not forgiving our differences.
Straffo.
The hardest part is going to be the rebuild of Iraq. I feel the TRUE test will be there. I could really careless if France gets a piece of the pie so to speak. Well..it rankles me some but if Iraq comes out as a strong force for Democracy then its all good. Everyone will benefit.
The only problem I see w/Iraq being prosperous are the several of the nations she borders with. This could all resolve itself as well... people see the other side being fat and happy they want it too.
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The only Europeans anyone can trust are the Danes.
And they can only be trusted to be sexually promiscuous.
But that ain't too bad, if you ask me, who live and...well, do stuff here.
Tataa
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I think the attitude of your leadership didnt help alot ethier. Americans felt betrayed. I'm amazed Germany didnt catch more grief.
Perhaps it was because it wasn't Germany's country we saved
twice in the last century.
Only to have the graves of those who sacrificed for their benifit desicrated.
Wab
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eh, we helped liberate Germany from a monster in 1945; too bad Britain and France didnt mobilize reserves when he marched into the Rhineland in the 30's; then the German Army would have done it for us.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Perhaps it was because it wasn't Germany's country we saved
twice in the last century.
Only to have the graves of those who sacrificed for their benifit desicrated.
Wab
Obviously you don't know how to count properly ...
Or you were speaking of your 1917 intervention of soldier without guns and cannon ?
too bad Britain and France didnt mobilize reserves when he marched into the Rhineland in the 30's; then the German Army would have done it for us.
should I remember the Sarre again ?
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Or you were speaking of your 1917 intervention of soldier without guns and cannon ?
Exactly the response I'd expect from the ungrateful decendents of cheese-eating surrender monkeys.
Wab
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Amazing that these guys can take Madelin's statement and turn it into an anti-France thread.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Exactly the response I'd expect from the ungrateful decendents of cheese-eating surrender monkeys.
Wab
So what was the origin of 81 % of you planes ?
What was the origin of many gun and cannon used by the 2nd DIUS ?
ps : funked I'm not attempting to bash the US but more to piss and educate an idiot.
I know of Bois Belleau and other part were the 4th USMC brigrade fighted.
I've knowledge of the 1500+ croix de guerre awarded to the marines
But mister wabbit look to know nothing.
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at the point the United States intervened in 1917, France and Britain were plenty glad to have our boys, with or without guns and cannon. Would anyone like to do a time experiment where we dont come in? [Visualizes pic of Kaiser Wilhelm and aides with Eiffel Tower in background after the Michael Offensive- maybe yes, maybe no]
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Exact,
but it's inexact to pretend that the sole intervention of the US ended the war.
At the time the intervention was authorized by the congress the US army was looking like a "tramp" army than anything.
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well, I'd have to say the additional American troops helped quite a bit to break the back of the German Army in summer/fall of 1918. Now without the US, Germany might still have lost the war, or there might have been a more evenly negotiated peace, or mutinies might have broken out in the French or British army before the revolution broke out in Germany. At the least, the US entry helped very much to counteract the German troops shifted from the east, which otherwise looked a very dangerous development in 1918.
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yep,
this helped too :
(http://www.miniatures.de/img/vehicles/fsfTL002.jpg)
(http://www.miniatures.de/img/vehicles/revirescoHT3.jpg) (http://www.miniatures.de/img/vehicles/matchbox-40176-renault-FT-17.jpg)
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They had poor quality plastic models ? ;)
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yep they melted over the trench killing the german :D
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Yeah those Renaults were great little tanks, probably the first proto-modern tank. However, I dont know how much impact they or other Allied tanks had; the use of combined infantry-armor was in its infancy then. [Even more so, armor-tactical air.] The use of tanks at Cambrai *might* have had permanent impact, if cavalry had been available to exploit and infantry to hold the seized ground.