Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on April 10, 2003, 05:03:24 AM
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Goodbye Concorde. The first and the only successful supersonic airliner.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38879000/jpg/_38879909_concorde203.jpg)
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British Airway and Air France ???
damm :(
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Yup :(
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Hiya's,
Well it's had a good run for it's money
As i can tell it's always been subbed anyways so maybe in world climate now it was inevitable spl?
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I just wish it went to more places on the east coast than just New York, and that it didn't cost $10,000 to fly there from London. I might have considered taking a ride on it otherwise.
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Wouldn't we all.
It used to land, pick up a competition winner and take off again from RAF Finningley every year at the air show there. It's quite a sight; like some elegant swan but with four after-burners. :D
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Looks like it, even though they have a licence up until 2009. Demand never recovered after the crash in 2000.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Goodbye Concorde. The first and the only successful supersonic airliner.
(http://airlines.afriqonline.com/images/sst3.jpg)
:p
Hey! It succeded...
in crashing.
-Sik
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I hope they park them somwhere so when the industry rebounds like it always does,they would fly again.:(
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The story about that plane is very intriguing. There is evidence to suggest that a French Mirage recon plane was taking pictures of it above the cloud layer at the air show. The Russian pilot, as he approached the clouds, saw the Mirage and took evasive action by pushing the nose of the plane down. This stalled the engines; to get them restarted he used a steep dive. This succeeded, but not before he had to pull up hard to avoid the ground, overstressing the airframe, which broke up in mid-air.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Looks like it, even though they have a licence up until 2009. Demand never recovered after the crash in 2000.
Too bad, that bird had a great service record.
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The 20th Century Limited of our day.
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found this :
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/downloads/ej64.jpg)
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like any of us would every have the green for a ride on it :rolleyes:
just more snobby fat arses in the "common mans" airlines first class section....
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Originally posted by straffo
found this :
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/downloads/ej64.jpg)
Is that the RCAF Red Arrows?
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Originally posted by Eagler
like any of us would every have the green for a ride on it :rolleyes:
just more snobby fat arses in the "common mans" airlines first class section....
Pretty pricey alright, seems I read about $9K for a round trip from London to NY.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Goodbye Concorde. The first and the only successful supersonic airliner.
What's your definition of successfull? It lost buckets of money and pissed-off the population in every area it opperated to/from.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Concord is a great technical achievement and it's too bad it isn't sustainable. I just wouldn't say that it was ever the success that it was inteneded to be.
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its a pretty cool flight
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inspite of the high ticket prices, it never made money, UK and france had to sudsidise not only the building but the operating costs, because of the sonic boom it had limited use and could only fly over oceans, they are stopping flights because of low ticket sales.
the US and russia both had prototypes , but decided it was a not a good deal bussiness wise.
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I wonder if the reason it never recovered from the crash is because potential passengers found out that they never solved the tire issue.
It was a major design flaw that was never resolved. Making the tire stronger only meant that if the tire failed anyway there was absolute certainty that unsurvivable damage would be done. It was a true Catch 22. Unless the tire problem was solved, tires would continue to fail, fairly regularly, and continual tire failure actually causing a crash was inevitable. Make the tire strong enough to survive normal use without failure, and if there was a tire failure due to extreme circumstances, the stronger tire would shed stronger debris and wreck more of the plane.
I hate to see it go the way of the dodo. It was an ambitious project, and a valiant effort.
On the other hand, I think ALL of the civilian aircraft manufacturers and carriers are in DEEP trouble. It ain't all due to 9/11 either.
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They are the RAF Red Arrows.
I see a lot of sour grapes and envy. Surprising to see it also comes from 'Roll-eyes' Eagler - just because you can't afford it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Are you a socialist or something?
The concorde was never the success it was meant to be, but it was profitable until the crash. And if you want to talk about subsidies in the airline industry - you'll find it very difficult to find the moral high ground.
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dowding , tell us , is losing the concord as bad as VW/BMW buying rolls-royce?
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I couldn't care less. I'm not likely to buy a Rolls-Royce anytime soon. I hear they are quality cars though. But I'd rather drive a TVR; your Rolls-Royce is a car for old men.
The Concorde on the other hand, doesn't look like it will be flying again under any ownership. Which is a real shame - she is one of my favourite birds. A thing of grace and time-less style, and a superb example of the beauty hard-coded into science.
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Originally posted by Dowding
But I'd rather drive a TVR
Nice to see that Dowding and I can agree on at least one thing :)
-Sik
Owner of a Triumph "If it isn't leaking Oil, It's likely Out of Oil" Spitfire, that wants to be a TVR when it grows up.
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Do TVR export to the US?
I wish I could afford one. But I couldn't even afford the insurance. Strictly an over-thirties car unless you are ultra-rich.
What's your favourite model Sik?
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Interesting pic there...
...tell me, when did the Shriners start flying planes?
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Hey Dowd, speaking of annoying European exports, who is the jerk putting all these Mini's on NY's streets?
These are the weirdest little cars I've seen since the Yugo, and they seem to be reproducing.
BTW, I am lucky enough to have lived a mile from JFK INtl Airport.
I went with my grandfather when I was about 5 to protest the first Concorde flight into JFK. (Actually we just drove our car to the airport and jammed up the roadways to protest the noise this baby made. There were alot of people there too.)
As I got older, and learned to think for myself, I loved watching her fly into 13L, coming over my house at 500 feet. The windows litterally rattled.
A few years back, after a bad day, I went to the airport and sat at my favorite "Plane Spotting" point. If you've never seen the concorde blast off the runway, you've missed something.
It is an awesome, somewhat frightening event. The ground actually shakes, and your car rocks when she comes tearing down that runway at full throttle. I'll never forget that moment on a sunny Saturday afternoon. :(
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I always admired that plane. Something rather beautiful and powerful about her.
The Mini's, as in the Mini-Cooper, is a product of BMW. They bought the Mini-Cooper name and put it on thier version of the bug.
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This Mini thing needs to stop. They friggin up the undercarriage of my Suburban every time I drive over one.:D
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Originally posted by Dowding
They are the RAF Red Arrows.
I see a lot of sour grapes and envy. Surprising to see it also comes from 'Roll-eyes' Eagler - just because you can't afford it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Are you a socialist or something?
The concorde was never the success it was meant to be, but it was profitable until the crash. And if you want to talk about subsidies in the airline industry - you'll find it very difficult to find the moral high ground.
If you think that about my post, you might try thinking more clearly. On the otherhand, it is my understanding from people in the British aircraft and air carrier industries that the Concorde was a huge dissapointment and a rather large money pit. I recognize it for the technical success it was.
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Seems to me the US had a successful SST, but the program was scrapped due to "anti-noise activists".
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No Hilts, I was definitely not referring to you.
Muckmaw - I used to see it every year, at RAF Finningley. Never got tired of seeing it fly.
If you think that is loud, you ought to hear this baby take off. At RAF Finningley they used to have a squadron of them. Before my time though, I just used to see the sole flying example fly as a kid until funding was cut and it was mothballed. Seriously, there's something about the sound it makes as it throttles up - like armageddon. :) I was only a kid but I remember the feeling - excitement, tinged with fear.
And when it finished the display, the raptuous applause was always accompanied by sound of a thousand car alarms blaring. :D
(http://www.paulnann.com/images/pn_w1251.jpg)
Skuzzy - the Mini was owned by Rover, which was bought by BMW. BMW was going to end Rover production, but it first stripped it of the successful brands - Mini, Range-Rover and Land-Rover. The Mini is made entirely in the UK by BMW as a subsidiary. Fortunately, a British managment consortium bought out Rover and they are producing some good cars.
The new mini is simply great - I went on a test drive in a Cooper S at the weekend, and it's definitely the car I'm going to buy.
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Thank you Dowding. I knew BWM had thier hand in it, but was never really clear on how the Rover thing turned out.
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You ain't heard loud 'till you heard one o' these puppies take off.
(http://www.inettek.com/stuff/sr71.jpg)
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Missed out on that priviledge. Went to Mildenhall the year after it went out of service. It had planned to do a flyby at Finningley once, but technical problems prevented that.
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Got to see a SR-71 land and take-off once. Stood flight line duty for it one night.
Of all planes that have every graced the air, this one has always left me with an adrenalin rush. It just screams, "I am the baddest bad-boy on the block!"
An incredible aircraft.
Oh,..the dang thing leaks fuel like crazy when it is on the ground. Apparently, the design takes into account for frame/panel expansion and seals itself at high speed, but once on the ground and cooled off, it seeps fuel.
I don't know what they put in it for fuel, but it is not JP4. All I was told, was do not let the fuel touch any part of your body/clothing.
The guys that filled it up early next morning were wearing protective clothing I have never seen before.
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I've spent quite a bit of time at radar sites very close to runways. The three loudest planes I've heard are in the following order.
3. F-111
2. Fully loaded KC-135
1. SR-71
The SR-71 may not really be all that loud. But it has an unmistakeable deep rumble that you feel deep in your bones.
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Skuzzy, as you well know in that time frame that was afigment of our imagination, You eyes wasn,t functioning properly, especially out on that flight line ;) . Na workked on one of them Figments in the late 60,s somewhere in the UK an not Mildenhal either :D
SP's ain't got no sense of humor never forget sound of M-16, going lock load. :confused:
AkIron, you ain't heard a F4 bubble check in full ab then.
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actually i think the bear is one of the loudest planes, if you go by sound levels.
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I dunno Iron. Between a fully loaded C5A, KC-135 and a SR-71...
You are probaby right. The pitch of the SR-71 is unmistakable. To this day, I have never heard another plane come close to that sound.
The C5A and KC-135 are screamers....the SR-71 is a rumbler.
You should have seen that plane landing at dawn. And the take-off was just as breath-taking.
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Krotki,..lol!
Yeah, couldn't even talk about that plane until a few years ago. Did you get to see the cockpit?
It was amazing.
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Skuzzy, I spent 6 years at Kadena, saw the "Habu" do it's stuff many times. You always knew when there was a mission up. The locals would be lined up on highway 58 at the end of the runway with their cameras and telephoto lenses.
I've been to a lot of airshows. Got to watch the F15 do some test flights in Panama in the early '70s, but the most fun I've ever had watching an airplane was at Carswell AFB in '76. They were still testing the F-16 at General Dynamics and put on some truly amazing shows. I spent 3 years at Nellis and never saw the Thunderbirds do anything even close.
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damn...that bird was the best
it also had the best safty record...20 years and 1 crash due to human error:(
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Originally posted by vorticon
damn...that bird was the best
it also had the best safty record...20 years and 1 crash due to human error:(
Damn good record.
If ya wanna talk airline safety records now, Southwest Airlines, no fatalities since it began service in 1971.
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Originally posted by Dowding
If you think that is loud, you ought to hear this baby take off.
I miss the Vulcan :(
If you want pure ground shaking, gut wrenching noise then thats the baby you want to be watching. I still remember the displays, intentionally getting as close to crowd centre as possible, turning away and climbing at a crazy AofA at full throttle with the business ends of 4 Olympus engines pointing straight at the crowd. THAT was loud.
The Harrier must get a mention too. Especially while hovering because it can get pretty close to the crowd and the noise is CONSTANT. Fun stuff.
Back on topic, I hear Branson wants to buy the whole fleet of Concords for £1. BA has said NO in no uncertain terms. Shame, I'd love to see them keep flying. I can't see them scrapping any of them though. I'm sure just about every museum in the world will be after one.
Gatso
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when i was a kid I watched 44 B-52's roll outta Pease AFB one late summer day. The ground shook, traffic stopped, folks climbed outta thier cars.. faces turned skyward. the noise, smoke and the smell of kerosene in the air was incredible. every soul in Portsmouth thought we were about to get nuked.
turned out it was the 509th relocating to Guam. En Masse. was an incredible sight, none the less.
(http://www.dschointventschr.ch/images/filmarchiv/b52/1_342.jpg)
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Yeah those B52s are an awesome sight. Never could get over how when they took off it always looked like the tail was higher than the nose.
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Cool Iron. Hehe,..we might have seen each other around the GD test area. I used to live in West Ft. Worth. Did the same as you. Used to go out and watch the crazy stuff they did in with the F16 during the early flight trials.
It was awesome.
You're correct. They did stuff no one would dare do at an air show.
The B51,..first time I saw one leave Carswell,...I thought I was gonna lose it. I just kept shaking my head in amazement that the thing would get up in air.
Brings back a lot of good memories.
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Originally posted by Dowding
What's your favourite model Sik?
For the modern TVRs, I'd say the Chimaera... it's the pinnacle of the British Roadster (IMHO of course)
-Sik
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Originally posted by AKIron
Yeah those B52s are an awesome sight. Never could get over how when they took off it always looked like the tail was higher than the nose.
That's is party piece isn't it? It WILL climb nose down lightly loaded with full flaps down. Actually quiet an alarming sight :D
Gatso
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Dowding! :p
Not surprising that the Concorde is to be mothballed. I'm surprised it wasn't done in 2000 after the crash. BA didn't seem to get the message that the air travel trend was towards low cost "no frills" airlines. That's what people want. And I just can't see spending £8000 on a return trip to NY. Branson once flew me from London to Newark (just outside NY) for £145 including taxes. :eek: Hello? Erm... most people accept that their time is not worth £1000 per hour. :rolleyes: And that's why Branson/Stelios/O'Leary are thriving while the big airlines flounder. I almost have visions of Mr. Toad weeping into the grass box of his lawnmower. :(
As for TVRs - hmmm, badly fitting doors, poor electrics, electric windows that have to be "helped" up - these are the kind of things that happen with them; the sort of things that owners of German cars would not tolerate. Still, at your tender years you could pay cash for the car, and take out a loan for the insurance.
Gatso!! You mentioned the Vulcan bomber. I was at the Battle of Britain 50th anniversary display at Boscombe Down in 1990. The Vulcan was by far the loudest aircraft to take off that day. You could see the diamonds just behind the engines on the take off roll.
As to Concorde, it was a common sight in the skies round here, and would pass over my house twice a day shortly after take off from LHR - at 1050 and at 1925. Sometimes my windows would rattle! These days it's a rare sight. Seems like the service has been cut way back already.
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Originally posted by beet1e
, badly fitting doors, poor electrics, electric windows that have to be "helped" up - these are the kind of things that happen with them;
Like I said, the Pinnacle of the British Roadster :)
Sounds just like mine, only newer
(http://www.geocities.com/cap-triumph/alexandercesarzlarge.jpg)
-Sik
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Flew round trip to England from NYC in 98... was a neat novelty as the time frame required it and work paid for it... other than that, it was a bit uncomfortable.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I don't know what they put in it for fuel, but it is not JP4. All I was told, was do not let the fuel touch any part of your body/clothing.
The guys that filled it up early next morning were wearing protective clothing I have never seen before.
The fuel costs more than good single malt whiskey.
squeak of a hangover too.
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Diddnt Braniff have one, or wanted one?
http://www.concorde-jet.com/e_braniff.htm
Too bad all people remember Braniff from is South Park. It was a cool airline.