Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on April 11, 2003, 03:56:18 PM
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Sounds like it was as bad as we imagined:
http://www.thbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=C6153
From the officer entrusted with our nation's nuclear codes: proof that Bill Clinton cared little for national security and put every American in mortal danger
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When he was tapped to accompany President Clinton and carry the nuclear "football" that contains the top-secret codes the President needs in case of nuclear war, Colonel Robert "Buzz" Patterson was proud and grateful. He had already put his life on the line for his country many times as he flew combat missions over the Persian Gulf and Bosnia, and he was honored to take on this new and awesome responsibility.
But when he entered the Clinton White House, his gratitude and awe soon gave way to shock, revulsion, and sorrow - as he saw first-hand the cavalier and self-serving way Slick Willie and his henchmen went about the business of running the country. In Dereliction of Duty: An Eyewitness Account of How Bill Clinton Compromised America's National Security, Patterson tells the whole story. Day in and day out in the Clinton White House, he witnessed the President's contempt for the military, his indifference to important issues except insofar as they served his own political or personal purposes, and his reduction of the Office of the Presidency to a playground for his own ambition and thirst for sordid perks.
Patterson not only had numerous opportunities to see Clinton's irresponsibility and neglect of his duties: he also witnessed Hillary's furious, profane rages and relentless shifting of blame to subordinates; the general disdain of Clinton staffers toward the military; and much more. The Clinton White House more closely resembled a college fraternity house than the seat of government of the most powerful nation on earth - and it all led, Patterson argues compellingly, to our armed forces and intelligence services falling into such a demoralized, unprepared state that a disaster was just waiting to happen. That disaster happened on September 11, 2001.
Just when you thought you'd heard it all about Clinton
- Why the biggest security risk in the Clinton White House was the Slick One himself (plus details of the day he lost his copy of top-secret nuclear codes!)
- How Slick Willie lost a crucial chance to strike strategic targets in Iraq because he wouldn't let his golf game be interrupted long enough to examine the situation and give the necessary orders
- The day the President neglected to change the country's top secret nuclear codes: he was too distracted by the Monica Lewinsky story breaking in the Washington Post
- Osama bin Laden: how he came close to being caught on Clinton's watch - except that the President hesitated too long in deciding to give the order
- Clinton's dishonesty: how it extended to everything from his golf game to his extramarital affairs and - most ominously of all - to his priorities as president and his concern for our national security
- Military personnel: forbidden to wear their uniforms inside the White House - by order of Hillary Clinton!
- What Clinton finally did to lose virtually all the faith and trust that military men had placed in him
- Clinton's cynicism: how he was able to turn on grief when needed to gain political points - and turn it off just as quickly
- The subtle and not-so-subtle racism on display regularly among Clinton staffers
- Hillary: "Harsh, difficult, and unpredictable" - and more about why administration officials fled from their desks and scurried into hiding places to avoid having to deal with her
- How the Clintons spent more than $15,000 of the taxpayers' money to airlift Chelsea's forgotten backpack of books to their vacation spot in the Virgin Islands
- Slick Willie's mood swings: with Hillary around, it was fruit, veggie plates, and ever-so-correct behavior. When she was gone? Booze, babes and barbecue
- A Whitewater smoking gun? The mysterious file box that was Hillary's most important - and most closely watched - piece of luggage
- How Clinton revealed his ignorance of and contempt for the military in ways that any military officer would notice
- The direct correlation between Clinton's political trouble at home and his trips abroad - which cost American taxpayers half a billion dollars
- Air Force One: how Slick Willie tried to turn it into a sexual playground (behaving in a manner that would have landed him in the brig if he had been a military man)
- How the Clinton White House neglected basic understandings of military and defense policy - and compounded this ignorance with arrogance toward the men in uniform
- Why Clinton policy in Somalia was a clear recipe for disaster
- Clinton's response to terrorist attacks throughout his administration: lots of talk and little action
- The appalling details of the day Slick Willie gave the Secret Service the slip and left the man holding the nuclear football to walk back to the White House alone
- How Hillary revealed her basic ignorance of the nature and parameters of the United Nations mission in Bosnia that she was helping to oversee
- When President Clinton met Colonel Patterson's wife - and eyed her as if he were in a singles bar
- The shocking reason why Clinton had to discontinue his jogging regimen
- Inside the Clinton White House: why it seemed disorganized and highly undisciplined to military men and career government service officers
- The bold-faced and outrageous lie that Clinton repeated over 130 times during his 1996 campaign for reelection
- How the Clinton administration time and time again attempted to cover up the shortcomings of its policies, rather than deal with them squarely and correct them
- The high Clinton administration official who admitted, "It was very clear to me right away that we were making this up as we went along"
Patterson explains that he wrote Dereliction of Duty not to attack Bill Clinton, but out of his sense of responsibility as a military man to serve the common good. "And I know," explains Patterson, "that the greater good was demonstrably not served by President Clinton and his administration, which put personal wants and needs ahead of the national interest." That makes this book more important than just a record of Clinton's misdeeds: it is essential reading for every patriot who wants to do his part to prevent such a debased character from ever occupying the Oval Office again.
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I have a good companion article to that one:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030411-94012.htm
here's a little quote:
As Mrs. Pelosi praised the troops, she also said their success was owed "in large measure" to former President Bill Clinton.
"This best-trained, best-equipped, best-led force for peace in the history of the world was not invented in the last two years. This had a strong influence and strong support during the Clinton years," she said.
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This best-trained, best-equipped, best-led force for peace in the history of the world was not invented in the last two years.
That's completely true, and here is the man to thank:
(http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Ronald%20Reagan.jpg)
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Now THAT was a Great President!
:D
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Ronald.
He will be remembered as the latest "great one."
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The guy that raided social security and then tried to dismantle it? Yeah, great guy. As a matter of fact, they had to rewrite laws to prevent it from happening again.
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Colonel Patterson shuld be tried for treason. How dare he betray his Commander in Chief!!!:mad:
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"I won't raise taxes"(but i'll steal the social security) That's how he filled all the holes in his budget, what a debacle. But i'm sure the right will spin it their own way;)
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the conservitives will forever find dirt no matter how small or laughable to throw at clinton, just like i will for reagon. the morons brain was full of holes by his 2nd year. he didnt even run the country tards.
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This is going turn into a flame fest for sure... lol
Your picking on everyone favorite lib!!
I am sure at some point they will attack the character of the Marine who wrote the book too.......
Or play it down "oh so what thats all in the past"
"Or we don't care about his personal life"
"its all right wing BS"
Or "the conservitives will forever find dirt no matter how small or laughable to throw and clinton, just like i will for reagon. the morons brain was full of holes by his 2nd year. he didnt even run the country tards."
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Please dont pick on the Dems poster boy..... They are very sensitive lately and could go postal...
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BTW, before the right freaks out, I liked Ron, he did alot for the mind set of the nation and took the penalty tax off the rich(everyone should be taxed equal) But he spent like a democrat w/o the funds to back it up. Then out of desperation came the raid on S.S.
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Dismantling that clusterfark of a system would be the best thing any president could do. SS is a joke.
SOB
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bill isnt the democratic poster boy. Most democrats consider him to be right wing. We just like how you get all pissed off and blood pressure up everytime you see his picture. its quite entertaining. The best part is he is such a ego maniac he will never go away. and unlike republicans god wont punish him with degenerative brain disease's(maybe an std) like heston and reagan(who was just told to just go up on stage a read a speech, im amazed the guy could remember his own name during this time).
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Tell that to the old folk who depend on it. Work all your life, put all that money into it, out of every check....then a politician swipes it...very nice.
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Originally posted by SOB
Dismantling that clusterfark of a system would be the best thing any president could do. SS is a joke.
SOB
and what to you pose as an alternative? The stock market?...............Blahahahahaha, very funny. Watch my money go to CEO bonuses then watch the company collapse....ahh, no thank you. Sorry, I would rather the government keep an eye on the money than the guys at enron.
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there is no real alternitve for SS right now. Unless you just want to cancel the entire thing and watch people in this country start starving to death again.
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Geez, the man rebuilt our economy from shambles. Yes, he got a ****job in the White House. I doubt , however, he was the first President to do so. All I see here is some guy trying to sell his book. Has it come to a point in America that if you are NOT a Republican you are Anti-American? Not all Democrats (note: I left you some room here) are out to turn us over to the first nation that wants a piece of us.
The major difference between Bill Clinton and every other President that has taken the oath is the current state of our Press Corps. Every single one of them wants to be the next Woodward and Bernstein. If we had put the same scrutiny to the last 10 Presidents we would be speaking Russian today. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and a First Lady all had a Mistress. 99% of the country didn't know FDR was wheelchair bound. Truman was given his start in Washington politics by a known Organized Crime Leader. Our current President and Vice President have some VERY shady deals rattling around in their closets.
The pedestal Oliver North has been placed upon stupefies me. He sold drugs in wholesale fashion and lied about it to Congress, but somehow he is a Super Patriot now. Yes, he is a convicted Felon...but He's Republican so it's okie dokie. Wonder how much of the drug profits went on to support Terrorism like Homeland Security is telling us.
Point is, quit beating a dead horse. I don't think he's going to be elected to anything anytime soon...or later for that matter.
(Venting over, let the Flames Begin!)
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The lack of understanding of economics displayed in this thread is astounding.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
and what to you pose as an alternative? The stock market?...............Blahahahahaha, very funny. Watch my money go to CEO bonuses then watch the company collapse....ahh, no thank you. Sorry, I would rather the government keep an eye on the money than the guys at enron.
The fact that you aren't smart enough to manage your retirement funds doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to.
SOB
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I hear this all the time "BOO BOO they are calling me anti american if Im not a rep, or I dont tow the party line"
It's BS, who called you anti American? I didn't nor do I think you are.
I think maybe deep down you might feel it though, since you and people like you keep bringing it up. Jeez just cause we dont agree does not mean I am going to label you... get over it.
I may think you are not very smart, but hell, that's your right, right up there with thinking everyone you don't agree with thinks you are anti american. You are wrong, but hey it is your right.
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Originally posted by SOB
The fact that you aren't smart enough to manage your retirement funds doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to.
SOB
Ah, so those who know the stock market are the ones entilted to retirement. Keep speaking plz.
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Originally posted by funkedup
The lack of understanding of economics displayed in this thread is astounding.
Enlighten us.
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BTW SOB, I agree you should be able to manage that money. But that should disqualify you from S.S. fair enough?
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SS saves us from alot more trouble then you guys realize. of course if you enjoy watching old people starve to death then maybe we should get rid of it. Of course their generation realized it was a good thing to have around have the 1930s.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
there is no real alternitve for SS right now. Unless you just want to cancel the entire thing and watch people in this country start starving to death again.
The system is a broke-down turd. End it, and end it now. People forced to pay into the system up to this point should continue to recieve benefits, and that will hurt, but keeping a broke-down system in place is not the answer.
Hell, if they halved my current SS contribution I could do better for myself with the other half than what I'm likely to recieve from SS when I retire...if I'm fortunate enough to live long enough to qualify at whatever age will be required by then. And if I die before I reach my planned retirement age, my family or an organization of my choosing will get the money I've saved and invested...not the government.
SOB
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Well, like I said, SOB makes a good point. If you want to manage that money instead you should be able to, it's your money. But in the future if your investments do not come to fruition, you will have to look to welfare, not S.S. for retirement.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
BTW SOB, I agree you should be able to manage that money. But that should disqualify you from S.S. fair enough?
Hell yeah, that would be perfectly fine by me. And you don't need to be a stock market wiz to invest your money wisely. There are plenty of alternatives to the stock market, and if you aren't saavy there are plenty of businesses around to help you plan out your retirement goals.
SOB
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BTW SOB, can you explain why it is broken down?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
and what to you pose as an alternative? The stock market?...............Blahahahahaha, very funny. Watch my money go to CEO bonuses then watch the company collapse....ahh, no thank you. Sorry, I would rather the government keep an eye on the money than the guys at enron.
Stop it, my side is killing me from laughing so hard.....WHO do ya think is running the government now?
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Doh!
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Originally posted by Sixpence
BTW SOB, can you explain why it is broken down?
Two very simple reasons.
1. I can recieve a larger return on my investment outside of SS...even when investing conservatively.
2. If I die before I reach my planned retirement age, my money will go where I choose. It won't suddenly disappear. My father died at 54. He got squat from SS for his years of paying taxes. We didn't even qualify for the pittance that they will sometimes pay out for funeral expenses.
There are other reasons for SS to be in existance, but those are the two reasons why it's broken down in terms of why it would be important for me. And in my opinion, that's what it's all about. It's meant to help me, and frankly, I feel I can help myself a whole lot better.
SOB
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Originally posted by Sixpence
BTW SOB, can you explain why it is broken down?
I'll answer for you....because S.S. goes to alot more than the retired. I'm not going to list all the people that get it, but it's alot. And IMO, it should be for the retired. I know alot of disabled people collect from it, and i'm not saying they don't need the money. But it shouldn't come from S.S.
S.S. is a savings bond(analogy) put aside so people who don't have the money to put into the the stock market or hire lawyers to manage their money can have something at retirement.
It's a way to prevent all the retired from having to collect welfare, which will be the alternative if you scrap S.S.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
S.S. is a savings bond(analogy) put aside so people who don't have the money to put into the the stock market or hire lawyers to manage their money can have something at retirement.
Just wanna mention one thing about this. You DON'T need to be rich or hire lawyers to invest your money and plan your retirement. You just need to be serious about doing so.
SOB
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Originally posted by SOB
Two very simple reasons.
1. I can recieve a larger return on my investment outside of SS...even when investing conservatively.
2. If I die before I reach my planned retirement age, my money will go where I choose. It won't suddenly disappear. My father died at 54. He got squat from SS for his years of paying taxes. We didn't even qualify for the pittance that they will sometimes pay out for funeral expenses.
There are other reasons for SS to be in existance, but those are the two reasons why it's broken down in terms of why it would be important for me. And in my opinion, that's what it's all about. It's meant to help me, and frankly, I feel I can help myself a whole lot better.
SOB
1. Can you guarantee that return? Of course you can't. You make it sound like everyone can just make a bundle in investments. People lose their shirts.
2. Is a good point. If you die your children collect till they are 18. However, in that case I believe the money that you have put into S.S. should have a 5%(on top of your money of course) dividend and given to your family.
I believe in S.S. , it's a safety net for retirement. I have put into it since the age of 15, and i'm damn glad I have.
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I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I never claimed to be called Un-American. I am a Vet and DAMNED proud of it. What I was trying to get across, and may have failed to do so, is that Clinton became a chic whipping boy for the Press. The "leftist" media (I need to figure that one out, since he was definitely more Port than Starboard) started a feeding frenzy and it refuses to stop. I bet if I wrote a book saying Clinton held Bestiality Training Classes in the Lincoln bedroom while faxing the nuke codes to Saddam, it would be on the New York Times Bestseller list in record time. While nothing I printed could be verified, neither could it be disproved....but it sounds like juicy reading.
Just for the record, I am neither Republican nor Democrat. I refuse to bind my vote to a party, I look for the most Qualified Candidate.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Colonel Patterson shuld be tried for treason. How dare he betray his Commander in Chief!!!:mad:
Airhead, settle down, Wild Bill ain't the Commander-in-Chief anymore. That title of Mr. President is purely honorary after they leave office.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
SS saves us from alot more trouble then you guys realize. of course if you enjoy watching old people starve to death then maybe we should get rid of it. Of course their generation realized it was a good thing to have around have the 1930s.
No one will starve. It's more a matter of dignity. I would rather collect a S.S. check that I invested in(my money was put aside for it), than to have to resort to welfare.
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BTW SOB, I have earned enough credit to collect just over 1k a month when I retire. If all else fails and the bottom falls out, I know I have earned that. I didn't get rich, but I don't think it has been a bad investment. And hopefully it keeps a roof over my head when I'm old and broken.
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lol, and don't say i'm already old and broken;)
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Hmmm... the military built under Clinton just waltzed through Iraq in 21 days.
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Well, you have to thank reagan too, he spent the most on defense. He did, he went nuts. It drove the russians to keep up and spend the same(they couldn't do it), and caused their demise.
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The real credit for our military go to JFK and LBJ. They got us into and kept us in Vietnam. What would our military be today if not for Vietnam?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Enlighten us.
1. SS is a ponzi scheme. If you don't know what it means, look it up. It is not indefinitely sustainable and will collapse eventually.
2. I defy anyone to find a 10 year period since the inception of SS where the SS return on investment outperformed the Dow. Money invested in SS is money thrown down the drain. If the same money had been put into the stock exchange, the country would be much richer in the long term.
3. If SS were eliminated it could be replaced with need based government aid. No need for retirees to starve like some alarmists say.
4. Clinton did not "rebuild" the economy. Presidents do not have a major effect on the economy. Fiscal and monetary policies do affect the economy, but they are not directly controlled by the President, and they are only secondary effects. The ups and downs of our economic indices are primarily a result of complex system dynamics of the economic behavior of our populace. Humans evolved trade as a method to facilitate mutually beneficial economic transactions. The best thing the government can do is get the hell out of the way and let us do our thing.
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There is not one fact nor shred of hard evidence in that entire post at the beginning of this thread.
Just a bunch of generalized statements.
As Shaq would say... get that weak watermelon outta my key!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
There is not one fact nor shred of hard evidence in that entire post at the beginning of this thread.
I think ya gotta read the book dude. It's a book review.
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I was waiting for you to post the book Funked :)
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I don't have it. Amazon recommended it to me so I found the most inflammatory review I could find and posted it here. :)
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served under 4 different cics so far. only one where myself and others were ordered to attend cic speaking when visiting base where we were at was clinton. other cics republican and democrat the boys always showed up for speeches. clinton and friends knew it would look horrible if he go to speak at base in korea or elsewhere and almost no military personnel show up. stories about clinton staffers being anti military were true. that and clinton and secdef at time of somalia sacked admiral in charge theatre after mogadishu firefight to place blame on admiral after they deny admiral assets needed for operations in somalia. my fav quote was from one of his appointees a little girl talking to media who said "our best and brightest did not serve in viet nam".
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Hmmm... the military built under Clinton just waltzed through Iraq in 21 days.
bull****. military not built by clinton or any president. military built by senior leadership of military. clinton negligent from lack of knolwedge on subject. for example he strip military of ability to fight on two fronts same time because he not see it happening during his presidency. this part of reason that north korea so brave. enemy intel types know that we not have carrier groups to engage in offensive operations in one area, cover other areas, and rotate carrier groups for necessary maintaning. we had the assets to do this under Regan and Bush like i say above ive been in for 4 cics so far and cic who make biggest difference with military was Regan but even he not change the way guys taught to shoot move fight and so on. clinton sure did some things right but foreign policy and military are not on that list.
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Military is high on the list. Clinton is the one that authorized the POM that made all these advanced weapons and defensive systems possible.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
1. Can you guarantee that return? Of course you can't. You make it sound like everyone can just make a bundle in investments. People lose their shirts.
Everyone CAN make a bundle in investments. And by bundle, I don't mean millions of dollars overnight, I mean steady growth for your retirement. You invest your money, get a reasonable rate of return, let compounding interest work for you, and after thirty or forty years, you have a nice tidy sum. The stock market goes up and down in the short term...in the long term it goes up, and so does your retirement fund. And as you get closer to retirement, you can steadily transfer your assetts into more stable investments that earn less interest. It's not rocket science, and I'm sure I'm just repeating **** you already know...so, uh, I'm not sure what we're arguing about. Oh yeah, the guarantee. Well, yeah, I think I can guarantee that the return will be better than SS provided it's not gambled on high risk stuff until the day you plan to retire. If I'm wrong, look me up in 30 years and kick my ass. :)
SOB
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Originally posted by anonymous
military not built by clinton or any president. military built by senior leadership of military. clinton negligent from lack of knolwedge on subject. he strip military of ability to fight on two fronts same time because he not see it happening during his presidency. this part of reason that north korea so brave. enemy intel types know that we not have carrier groups to engage in offensive operations in one area, cover other areas, and rotate carrier groups for necessary maintaning. we had the assets to do this under Regan and Bush like i say above ive been in for 4 cics so far and cic who make biggest difference with military was Regan but even he not change the way guys taught to shoot move fight and so on. clinton sure did some things right but foreign policy and military are not on that list.
Is anonymous = Tonto?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is anonymous = Tonto?
no dude had not played in big arenas yet when i first used bb so no player id so i used anonymous.
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LOL Don't cha feel like watermelon now MT??:D
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ya.... a little :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
1. SS is a ponzi scheme. If you don't know what it means, look it up. It is not indefinitely sustainable and will collapse eventually.
2. I defy anyone to find a 10 year period since the inception of SS where the SS return on investment outperformed the Dow. Money invested in SS is money thrown down the drain. If the same money had been put into the stock exchange, the country would be much richer in the long term.
3. If SS were eliminated it could be replaced with need based government aid. No need for retirees to starve like some alarmists say.
4. Clinton did not "rebuild" the economy. Presidents do not have a major effect on the economy. Fiscal and monetary policies do affect the economy, but they are not directly controlled by the President, and they are only secondary effects. The ups and downs of our economic indices are primarily a result of complex system dynamics of the economic behavior of our populace. Humans evolved trade as a method to facilitate mutually beneficial economic transactions. The best thing the government can do is get the hell out of the way and let us do our thing.
So what you are saying is that savings bonds are useless?Pyramid scheme too I guess.
Like I said, i'll keep putting into S.S., you can keep your money. But don't ask for S.S. when you get there.
Need based government aid..aka..welfare. So instead of them paying into their own retirement, you want them to collect tax paid welfare.
Ok, the Dow. Let's say you put 100,000 in the stock market. Over 5 years it grows 10%. Then over the next 5 years it loses 10%. How much money do you have? Oh yeah, everyone gets rich in the stock market. Over the past 5 years, for every one person who made money, can you tell me how many lost money? I have nothing against the stock market, but i'm not going to trust my retirement to it. I'de rather buy bonds. With all the scandel and the insider info, I don't have faith in it anymore, sorry. Inside info deals like Bush and martha stewart(to name a few) Scandels, like enron. It never ends. My 401k has taken such a beatin the market is going to have to really perform over the next 20 years for me to make a modest gain.
BTW, if S.S. were used just for retirement(like it should), it would never run out of money. Problem is that everyone who throws out their back or has any kind of disability collects from it. I think that money should come from elswhere. IMO.
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heap big laugh kemosabe :D
kbman
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Is that how you spell kemosabe?
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Like I said, i'll keep putting into S.S., you can keep your money. But don't ask for S.S. when you get there.
No I can't. The money is stolen from my paycheck before I even see it.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Need based government aid..aka..welfare. So instead of them paying into their own retirement, you want them to collect tax paid welfare.
What is tax-paid welfare? It's a redistribution of income from richer to poorer.
Many of us pay way more into SS than we will ever get out of it. Which means that... SS is a redistribution of income from richer to poorer.
I'm not against the redistribution, at least not for old retired people. What I'm against is the government forcing us to put large sums of money into an investment which has an abysmal rate of return.
Let me invest my own money and take care of my own retirement. There will be enough for me and enough left over that I can pay taxes to cover the elderly who need help.
TAKE YOUR DAMN HANDS OUT OF MY POCKETBOOK, WASHINGTON PIGS!!! :D
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There was also a book by Gary Aldrich, FBI Liason to Clinton's office, "Unlimited Access", that makes excellent reading and quite likely confirms much of what Patterson's book covers.
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Thanks Rasker, I'll put it on my Amazon wish list along with Patterson's opus.
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i want my social security perhaps the system needs some revamping a protection from the govemnet fund raiders.
but the silly conservatives need to stay away from social security
texas is suffering thru a horrible budget crisis thanks to bush.
19 out of 100 local teachers laid off last week but last year they were under staffed? my taxes and fuel prices went up more than the last decade in the las year under these republican fools.
guess that is what conservatives want for the nation. sigh
ohh and poor starving destitute old folks. who werent smart enought to invest. compasionate conservative indeed.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is anonymous = Tonto?
oh man i just got it. have mercy im not nearly as slow in person dude. and i also use better grammar and punctuation on official paperwork. :)
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I want to stay as far away from Social Security as I can.
How about this:
Stop deducting SS from my check and do not require a SS payments from my employer on my behalf.
Just give me back 50% of what I've put in over the years. Allow me to roll it over into a self-directed IRA. Just the principal, no interest. Deduct no taxes, no penalties.
When I reach retirement age, it's mine to do with as I please.
In return, I will gladly give up any and all "entitlements" to any sort of Government aid that I would normally be qualified for at retirement age.
Sound fair? I'm only asking for half of what I put in........ and anyone who wants to stay in the present system can do so.
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(http://kodae-arts.com/FDB/Osage/dogbutt.jpg)
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Originally posted by funkedup
[I'm not against the redistribution, at least not for old retired people. What I'm against is the government forcing us to put large sums of money into an investment which has an abysmal rate of return.
Let me invest my own money and take care of my own retirement. [/B]
Like I said before, I agree, you should have the option to "out" of S.S. and use that money as you feel. It's your money. My argument is scrapping it would be a bad idea. I think in the end alot more people would have not saved their and managed their money than people who did. And honestly, I want to keep my payments to S.S., i'm counting on it.
Now your rate of return depends on how long you are retired. Let's say I put 30k into S.S. through my lifetime. Then when I retire, I collect $1200.00 a month for 8 years of retirement(hopefully more). That is actually a pretty good return on your investment, no?
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Sixpence,
I am getting in late on this debate but would like to make a few points.
1. Social Security - That program was being raided to pay for other programs as early as 1974. So Reagan didn't start the process.
2. Clinton CUT the military and intelligence budgets during his first two years in the White House. He would have continued to do so IF Congress had allowed him to, BUT, we all remember what happened during the Congressional elections of 1994, DONT WE!
3. As a native Arkansan, I have been watching the antics of Slick Willie a lot longer than you boys have. Make no mistake about it, He and his "wife" have demonstrated on many occasions their true feelings about the military. While few of us on these boards would question the motives of our military personnel, they could and did do that very thing. While Hillary is usually seen as the more "radical" of the two, he's a close second. Ole Slick just hides his a lot better.
Regards, Shuckins
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I like military spending in all honesty. I think more money should be spent on research and development. Kidney stones are now an outpatient procedure because of work done in the military. Research and development spins off into the medical and other fields.
My point is scrapping S.S.(imo) is not the best way to go. I've payed alot into it and i'm expecting it to be there if and when I get there.
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Hey Funkedup, Halfprice books is selling new copies of "Unlimited Access" for 98 cents, plus, I assume, shipping and handling. Gary Aldrich continues to write commentary on some conservative web sites
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BTW, you mention Clinton inaction. He did try to get support for action against Iraq. He couldn't do it. In one debate where he was trying to rally support, he got roasted. Chants of no blood for oil filled the forum. I found a bunch of links "clinton action against saddam" in a google search. Some good reading. I would like to find the debate I saw on the history channel when he tried to get support on action against saddam. It really was a disaster. If not for 9/11 I don't think Bush would of had the support either. I still can't believe the U.N. would not support saddams removal. Now they want to jump in and take all the credit for it, crack me up.
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clinton had some of our guys training with the pakis to go after bin laden. op got scrapped when military coup took place in pakistan. in that case you cant really blame him for putting op on hold. last thing you want is a few of our guys in deep weeds a long way from home and no buddies or support for several hundred miles in any direction. the guys were still good to go for the op but when you are waiting to go you have all the perspective of a dobie. thats what bosses away from the action exist for sometimes is to lend perspective to the go or no go call.
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dont forget anything that clinton tried to do was pretty much blocked by the republicans in congress. Of course then it wasnt treason and some reason it is now.
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Ok, I get it now, heh, thanks for the clarification!