Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on October 22, 2000, 11:20:00 AM
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I have to say I'm getting rather tired of the uber/unfair/dweeb/ho/altmonkey comments running around on the bbs these days. Talk about a whining sniviling bunch of crybabies.
Someone posts a thread about having a hard time dealing with a scenario and its inability to match a real war environment and it turns into a "they were higher than us" squeak session. Hang, you are very correct in your assesment on all counts. AH is not quite ready to provide the environment you are looking for. I blame HTC for about 10% of it, and the participants for the rest.
Its time the people complaining about these things realize that what they really want is a game.. not a simulation.
In war, you had to fight no matter what your capabilities. You were given an aircraft and had to make due. If an engagement occured where you started at a disadvantage... you had to make due. If the enemy's aircraft was better than yours, you had to make due. If the enemy had more airborne than you.. you had to make due.
Its time to get rid of the score system. It seems to be the only thing that is keeping people from flying the aircraft they really want to fly. My God, you have the chance to fly, die, learn and re-up again and again... yet you complain about uberness. You are given the tools needed to overcome that uberness (time and experience), but you chose to ignore that and demand fairness.
Life is not fair. War is not fair. What exactly is it you want to be simulated again?
AKDejaVu
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I couldn't agree more...and I'm more sick of the constant barrage of accusations, derisive comments and overall squeakfest that is channel 1. It seems AH is becoming more of a squeaking complaining chat room with airplanes as a backdrop than a flight sim.
And yes I can squelch channel 1 but I like to be able to enjoy some of the adult dialog and friendly discourses that take place there on occasion.
If you think all the bellyaching about Chogs and Nikis and Spits OH MY is gonna change anything you better think again..the history of the other sims bears this out.
I'm sure I'm gonna hear the inevitable "whining about whiners" flames so fire away...flame proof skivvies are already installed.
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Hello,
Ya know it's real funny to look back and see the effects the changes have made in this game and bbs over the various mods and patches. I know there is a learning curve for HTC in getting what we, the customer, wants in a fun time.
Think back a bit. It used to be the main complaints were strictly on guns. The "uber" planes were the 190's and late model 109's that could out turn, out dive and certainly outshoot anything else in the game. No one wanted a spit as it was almost certain death, especially the Spit 5.
Players called for the Zero as an ultimate turn fighter. We got it but look to see how many use it as a main ride.
The 51 was considered to be the ultimate in a BnZ ride with good guns. Later the 50's were downgraded in lethality and other planes ramped up in FM to enable them to gain and retain speed. Now the 51 is a rare sight, yet in WW2 it was one of the most desired planes of the Allies. Certainly the one that stayed in production the longest after WW2. (not necessarily by the US)
In the TA there are really only 2 planes flown after the last FM change. They are the Spit 9 and Nik1. All others are virtually ignored.
My point? Each change requested (demanded) by the player has made an impact in what is flown in MA and TA. The complaints haven't stopped or even been reduced. They just take a different tack. I am almost to the point of thinking the only way to make the majority of AH players happy is to make 2 separate arenas just like AW. A relaxed realism arena where all planes have almost the same capabilities and lethality and a "full" realism (what a joke since it is based in a computer game) arena. Each player could pick his or her "poison" and continue the pursuit of fun.
Scores and the resultant addition of "perk" planes / vehicles do nothing to level out the field. Players are now concentrating on what will allow them to have the best advantage over other players. For most, it seems to be based on what plane will give the most advantage for them to up their score.
The next change in FM will result in a transition towards those planes that give the most advantage in that FM. This is otherwise known as "gaming the game". Unless all planes are "equalized" in performance there will be no even mix of plane types in this game.
"Equalization" of the aircraft isn't really much of an option as it reduces all to an arcade game. In separate arenas it might at least give you a choice.
If you want a "realistic" situation you had better go the the SEA arenas and fly the choices given by the designers. That is fairly close. You fly what your country gives you and on the missions you are "ordered" to fly. In that situation you are close to having a "simulation" instead of a wide open game.
<rant off>
Mav
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I can't agree with you more. Use the planes we have to there advantage and stop whining about things
Vati66
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Deja,
I was going to make a long post explaining how I couldn't agree with you more. However, I decided to spare everyone a long and boring diatribe and just say this:
You have taken the words right out of my mouth (or keyboard in this case (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
-math
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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula. I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot
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By Maverick
<snip>
Scores and the resultant addition of "perk" planes / vehicles do nothing to level out the field. Players are now concentrating on what will allow them to have the best advantage over other players. For most, it seems to be based on what plane will give the most advantage for them to up their score.
<snip>
Maverick;
Strictly regarding your comments regarding the "Perk System".
From what I can gather, you will earn points at a greater rate by being successful in a plane that is in generally less successful in the MA.
- More successful plane vs less successful plane = less perk points
- Less successful plane vs more successful plane = more perk points
Seems to me this would act to level the playing field and not do what you have described.
Personally, I am going to wait and see before I make in value judgements.
Good Luck! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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I am new to this game been on for about 3 weeks. I get shot down 99% of the time in what ever plane I take up. But that just makes me more determend to get back up and try some think diffrent. The game is great how it is. Its me who is crap at the minute. People should relize this a sim not a game there for it is ment to be real as it can get not a game where everyone is same. So stop complaing and get trying diffrent things to get the better of other planes, people. Life is not fair, Love is not fair, War is not fair. So stop squeaking and get on with like I have to. if you getting shot more me let me know as it will make me feel better. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://heathblair.tripod.com/nhcouger.gif)
NIGHTHAWKS "WE BAD"
[This message has been edited by NHMadmax (edited 10-22-2000).]
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Shut up, all you whine whiners.
Do it now. I am sick of it.
And StSanta, shut the hell up already, we're sick of you.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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<S> AKDejaVu
It seems like all I see on the BBS is (SNIFF) he was higherrrrrrrrrrr! Just play and relax, ignor the the score and you will have more FUN!
But I do enjoy RAM's rants hehehe
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I Hate It When That Happens!
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AKDejaVu,
You got that right.
Maverick,
You're an F4U-1C pilot, right? I note that you mentioned the Spit IX and N1K2, but left out the most common aircraft, the F4U-1C. Not that I care really, but it was sort of disingenuous of you. BTW, I see as many P-51s as I do Spitfire MkIXs, maybe more.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by Karnak:
AKDejaVu,
You got that right.
Maverick,
You're an F4U-1C pilot, right? I note that you mentioned the Spit IX and N1K2, but left out the most common aircraft, the F4U-1C. Not that I care really, but it was sort of disingenuous of you. BTW, I see as many P-51s as I do Spitfire MkIXs, maybe more.
Sisu
-Karnak
Karnak
I do not fly the chog or dhog.
The coment about the spit9 and nik1 was based on observation of the TA (training arena). If you had really paid attention and read that part I am sure you might have seen that.
Before you determine who is disingenuous you might try checking or asking. Then look in the mirror.
Mav
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 10-22-2000).]
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WTG DejaVu!
I am tired of hearing "it ain't fun"
when one side or another has a percieved disadvantage.
Most seem to consider this a game which indeed is true but I see it as a game that can be used to simulate WWII air combat and Scenarios are the only way this can happen.
There is an extremely simple course of action to take if an arena or a scenario "ain't fun"
"Don't fly in it."
Those of us interested in simming must participate in scenarios and do whatever we can to make them work.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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My not so Humble suggestion is for the ones who whine about events and their settings to STFU and design their own Events. If they are willing to do so, then they may make suggestions; if not, well, no more need be said.
Lizking
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I agree 100% Deja
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So, Deja, did you see the light ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Saw (still wearing NVGs...)
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Iam taking time outa A/H at the moment, spending more time in W/B with the bulk of 249, I find that A/H is more aggresive in terms of players verbaly abusing people including me, now to be honest its all water of a ducks back to me but its strange how this doesnt seem to happen in other WW2 on line sims.
I know that iam not the only one who has noticed this, overall A/H is great fun, shame about some of the people who fly in it.
Marcof 249 RAF C~H~Q.
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Heheeh ya guys should hear dejavu when kniggits are losing and people are logging off because they don't wnna fight and wanna surrender.
He is more venomous than a rattle snake (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Knights fight to the DEATH dammit; hack ir, or turn rook or bish; they allow sissies.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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On the whole I agree with you DejaVu.
But there is one place where fairness counts.
CM's setting up ANY event should see to it that a level playing field exists. IE no one side has an unfair unrealistic advantage over the other. NO I"M NOT talking about alt limit's.
Sunday's snapshot limited Allies to 30% of the totalnumber flying and while I havn't seen the log yet, I'd have to say it was VERY well balanced!
People seem to forget that "Everyone dies!"
War is HELL! No one ever said it was "Fair".
If you can't lick em with what you've got, try something else! Can't take em out singlehanded, well grab your buds & gangbang em.
Can't take the frustration any more? Then Alt-F4 before you whine, come back again later.
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Marcof,
you are talking out of your arse!
VoX 9.JG54 AH
Bloom- ===TheRedArrows===>> WB
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Heheeh ya guys should hear dejavu when kniggits are losing and people are logging off because they don't wnna fight and wanna surrender.
He is more venomous than a rattle snake .
Ah Santa.. you were there the day some poor sod said "We should just let them have 4 then it would reset". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I do believe you joined were the first to join my rally cry. <SALUTE>
AKDejaVu
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Marcof must be flying a different sim than I.
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What is really amazing is that the Message on the medicine bottle has been there a long time, and so few actually heed it.
"Keep this Product out of the reach of Children"
OH MY!
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When I wanna say this; I throw a <S> instead! (http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/rowgue/stupid.wav)
CyberPilots have bigger Joysticks
<< MILENKO >> (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
ACES HIGH ASSASSINS Website (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
WB/AH ASSASSINS Website (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
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I just wanted to provide my viewpoint on this whole thing. First of all, I think most of the folks that post on this BBS are the "vocal minority", and not necessarily representative of the greater AH community.
Second, different folks play the game differently. The challenge for HTC is to provide an environment where those different styles of play can be accomodated within HTC's vision of the game. I don't give a rat's about score, and I like to fly my favourite plane regardless of the relative merits of it in the situation. (I'm a Jug driver.) I think there are many AH players that just like to fly their favourite plane and have some fun, without getting all caught up in either their score or the land-grab game. These folks will help ensure there is always a decent mix of different planes in the arena most times.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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I see some nasty stuff on the text buffer. Starts when someone calls someone else a dweeb for apparently doing something stupid. If someone calls me a dweeb, I agree and continue with what ever I'm doing.
I don't have time to argue over the text buffer with some mellonhead. I gota fly and fight baby!!!!! That's what I'm paying for!!
Remember someone starts this crap mainly because they got beat! Simple as that. Ya gota check the ego in at the coat room before entering Aces High.
Once I went up against DejaVu in my 109, he shot me down. Took up a Spit V, he shot me down! So ya know what I did? Went to a different airfield!!! Ya don't have to hit me on the head three times to realize I'm getting beat! Went to find greener pastures elsewhere! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW DejaVu! You are on my list for that! I believe you are number 147!! So when I take care of the other 146, I'll be commin for ya!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
You'll always see squeakin because people get their itsy bitsy pride hurt and they have to strike out somewhere. I even, have been guilty of this. Not very often, because my ego is where??? Its in the coat room!!!
Have a Nice day!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I don't know but.. I don't want a "war" sim if it means that setting up the arena with large built in imbalances. I would like as close to a level playing as possible to start out. I find that things like "perk" planes or gross numbers imbalance are things I disslike. I don't care about score but I don't want to look over my shoulder and constantly avoid 262's just so that someone can fly a plane that is untouchable. I don't want him butting into my fights. I think that the way the arena is set up and the 3 color thing make for pretty good matchups so far as plane choice and numbers balance go right now.
I just came over from WB where the "historic" crowd has pretty much taken over. There is a date based rolling plane set with all the poor parity that you can imagine. Huge numbers imbalance as people scramble for the "uber" ride of the day. The total sameness of axis vs allied same ol same ol fights evfery day. This is of course, my opinion and some people are content with it over there. Some here might even be happier in such an environment.
Me... I like parity and variety. Despite what I have read on this board by some people, I find that I am fighting a huge variety of planes in AH and that they all have strengths and weaknesses that make them all pretty viable choices. Any step away from this such as "perk" planes or even introduction of very late war planes into the current arena will most likely lessen my fun.
lazs
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Mind if I quote you HiTech?
No one would like real war in a online sim, its not fun