Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bfreek on April 12, 2003, 12:47:44 PM
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Isnt that a bit lame to have in a simulation where 30k bombers can do barrel rolls and hammerheads and chandells
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Originally posted by bfreek
Isnt that a bit lame to have in a simulation where 30k bombers can do barrel rolls and hammerheads and chandells
Never tried it myself :p
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Originally posted by bfreek
Isnt that a bit lame to have in a simulation where 30k bombers can do barrel rolls and hammerheads and chandells
Well this is just arcade game not real world simulator...
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And who says they couldn't really do a barrel roll anyways?
Here is a picture of the Boeing 707 prototype being put thru it's paces.
(http://www.historylink.org/hl2/images/707roll.jpg)
Notice anything a bit odd about the picture?
http://www.historylink.org/_output.CFM?file_ID=390
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Then again, a 707 isn't carrying 10 crew members and ## amount of bombs hanging in its belly. But hey, maybe they could do barrel rolls.
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Originally posted by Major_Hans
And who says they couldn't really do a barrel roll anyways?
Here is a picture of the Boeing 707 prototype being put thru it's paces.
(http://www.historylink.org/hl2/images/707roll.jpg)
Notice anything a bit odd about the picture?
http://www.historylink.org/_output.CFM?file_ID=390
Saw the film of the 707 doing a barrel row over a crowd when it first came out...was on Discovery Wings....very cool!
About the point of this thread...the author is right. Ive been flying the P-38 a lot, and I've had buffs outturn and do some pretty amaing things that should've meant structural death.
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Some bombers were reportedly quite nimble, e.g. the Short Stirling (obviously you are not going to see one of those at 30k, though!).
With the Lancaster, doing aerobatics at 30k would be theoretically possible (I think they looped one once) but not likely. You need to be able to do a corkscrew in one, though.
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Some twin-engined bombers were fully aerobatic, although the amount of fuel and bombload at any given moment might preclude some of the more violent manouvres. Bear in mind that any plane stressed for dive-bombing duties shouldn't find a loop beyond its abilities, so long as it either has sufficient excess power or goes into the loop after an initial dive. AFAIK, the Ju88 and G4M were both very nimble and intrinsically capable of loops and barrel rolls; I'd be surprised if the same wasnt true of the Ki67 and B25, plus the Blenheim, A26 and B26. (Probably others, too)
HOWEVER: the pilots manual sfor planes list manouvres that are prohibited. For example, loops, spins, rolls,inverted flight, vertical banks and Immelmans were prohibited for pilots of the B25. The reason for this is becausethose manouvres are, to a greater or lesser degree dangerous, the more so the more heavily laden the plane is. If all goes well on a mission, a bomber pilot shouldn't NEED toperform violent manouvres - and lets face it, it'd be an unlucky fighter pilot that couldnt match a bombers manouvres!
Even some larger bombers were capable, under the right circumstances, of some surprising aerobatics. IIRC the Lancaster could be barrel-rolled, although I havent heard of one being looped in RL, although I have twice performed that feat with the AH Lancaster (and several times with the WB B17. Havent tried it with the AH B17).
With regard to the realism orotherwise of buffs using violent manouvres to evade fighters in AH, especially in the MA, I can only say that I have little sympathy for the affected fighter pilots. Why? because AH is so seriously and ludicrously biased towards fighters and fighter gameplay that outside of historic refight scenarios I'd countenance, and indeed HAVE pulled every aerobatic trick in the book in order to attempt to survive fighters attentions. Usually unsuccsesfully, but every now and then a minor miracle occurrs.
If you dont want buffs doing unrealisticmanouvres toprevent you from a chance at killing them, then bug HTC for Otto gunnery (so we dont die whilst using the bombsight just because there arent any human gunners aboard), more realistic damage modelling in its effects (IMO, guns are too lethal and/or planes too easily damaged - probably to cater for the "Iwanna kill NOW!" dweebs), plus moreacuratemodelling of bomber loadouts, and - engine overheating if engines are run at more than 90% throttle for too long. Also doing away with GPS and replacing it with some system that doesnt let fighter pilots get completelylost, whilst allowing the effortsof buff navigators to navigate properly to be rewarded would help. Oh, and targets that stay down for a sensible amount of time and have sensible effects in the arena(instead of this 15 mins down lunacy) would help, too. Maybe giving buffpilots a decent rewardf or their efforts in perk points would help, too, for those that are bothered about perk points.
In short - make buffing a better experience for buff pilots, more of us will be encouraged to fly em more often, and wont feel we have to fight sofranticallytosuriveevery encounter. As things are, and have been aslong as I've been in AH, flying buffs in the MA is close to signing up for virtual suicide for next to no reward. Fighter pilots in AH have it far too easy - as they have tended to in MMOLS since the year dot. Time to take the training wheels off those fighters and give the buffers a more rewarding game, which overall will enhance the fighter piloting experience.
Esme (stepping down from soapbox...) :-}
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Hey Esme... drop me an e-mail at: afraize@cpomail.net.
I need to talk to you about KG 2.
!
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Originally posted by Esme
HOWEVER: the pilots manuals for planes list manouvres that are prohibited.
Also true for some fighters - including
spins etc.
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I agree with ESME...
Help the buffs out and there'll be more of them in the air... B-17s could take a helluva more lot damage in RealLife and land then they can in AH. I'd also like to see taking the time to fly 5 sectors to bomb the enemies Refinery while shooting down 3 enemy interceptors do SOMETHING to actually affect the game!
I love flying the Buffs... But there seems to be little point in doing so in AH... it's alot faster/easier to load up a heavy P-47 or Typhoon and go take down targets at an air field than to lug a fully loaded B-17 to the same place!
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Agree, the #1 thing AH needs more than anything is some kind of "STRATEGY ENGINE" as well as more "bombable" targets that are linked in some way to each sector. Take out these targets and you will degrade the opertations of the other side in that sector.
Some of my favorites are the refinerys and railyards on the Germany Map and the Radar Towers on the BOB map.
Another that Warbirds had was the "Supply Port" full of shipping. Sink those ships and the fields nearby would rebuild much slower.
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and the jobs for the torpedo/dive bombers will be much easier, I agree!
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i have flown in a real b-17 before..EXtremely strong craft ...and dam powerful.. I have seen footage of them doin a roll or two and survivng..SO i say they cn..Now for the loops and multi rolls..ya maybe a bit to much of a FM..but your ftr if your any kind of decent pilot is more then cpaable of getting away and setting up for a good kill shot...
BTW..if anyone gets a chance to ride in the B-17 ( 909) or the b-24 (dragon and its Tail) I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!!!!! They are ran by the CollingsFoundation...
Please donate if you can..These are Bueatiful Flying History Musuems....
Really Fine planes...and flying in them is frikn insane..LOVED it..
I hopefully will fly in the B-24 this year:)
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Where can one ride in a B-17. No local airports house working Fortresses :(. There is one that is 12 mos. from flying tho. Maybe I will wait a year. lol.
Do you know of any websites with info??
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Originally posted by bfreek
Isnt that a bit lame to have in a simulation where 30k bombers can do barrel rolls and hammerheads and chandells
damn....someone who figured out how i score kills in the c-47(just do a loop on the deck and count on that spit or temp to follow):D
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http://www.collingsfoundation.org/menu.htm
there you go..they fly a b-17G model and a B-24
dam bad..they comn back to my town in MAY..i cant wait..GORGEOUS PLANES..re done so frikn well they look brand new...
Please donate if you can....DEFNTLY VISIT THEM!!
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HAVENT been online here a bit. but it was a Lancaster, he then spiraled down and dive bombed the factory.
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Originally posted by bfreek
HAVENT been online here a bit. but it was a Lancaster, he then spiraled down and dive bombed the factory.
That happenned almost everyday during WW2. I know cause I saw it. :D
This is a game, so dont worry about it. It will only give you an ulcer. :(
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In AH and in CFS2 I've flown a B-17 upside down over a base at about 50ft :)