Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on April 13, 2003, 12:26:29 AM
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May 14, 1967: Egypt's President Gamal Nasser demands the withdrawal of United Nations force--established in 1957 as an international "guarantee" of safety for Israel--from the Sinai peninsula. The UN meekly obeys; the United States and Britain fail to rouse the Security Council to take action.
May 15: Three Egyptian army divisions and 600 tanks roll into the Sinai. World community does nothing.
May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel."
May 18: Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."
May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war. (US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")
May 20: Syria's defence minister (now president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."
May 27: Nasser: "Our basic objection will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."
May 30: Nasser : "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel."
May 30: Jordan's King Hussein signs a five-year mutual defence pact with Egypt and the two set up a joint command, making clear its stance in any future conflict.
My 31: Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."
May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."
June 4: Iraq joins Nasser's military alliance against Israel.
June 5: Six Day War begins: Israeli Airforce attacks airfields in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.
June 10: Israel and its enemies accepted UN Security Council cease-fire demands. The war ended, leaving Israel in control of the Sinai peninsula, eastern Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, Judea-Samaria and the Gaza Strip. (The Sinai was returned to Egypt between 1978 and 1982, as part of an Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty.)
"Never in human history can an aggressor have made his purpose known in advance so clearly and so widely. Certain of victory, both the Arab leaders and their peoples threw off all restraint. Between the middle of May and fifth of June, world-wide newspapers, radio and, most incisively, television brought home to millions of people the threat of politicide bandied about with relish by the leaders of these modern states. Even more blatant was the exhilaration which the Arabic peoples displayed as the prospect of executing genocide on the people of Israel ... In those three weeks of mounting tension people throughout the world watched and waited in growing anxiety--or in some cases, in hopeful expectation--for the overwhelming forces of at least Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq to bear down from three sides to crush tiny Israel and slaughter her people
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Arabs threaten to destroy Israel, UN does nothing, Israel kicks the Arabs tulips while being overwelmingly outnumbered. Maybe preemptive strikes( and not UN help) have value after all.
Israel attacked the Egyptians beginning on June 5, 1967. In the first hours of the war, Israel destroyed over 400 enemy aircraft to achieve total air superiority.
Israeli troops quickly conquered the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza. Jordanian artillery began firing at Jerusalem on the first day of the war, and then the Jordan Legion advanced and took over the headquarters of the UN (Governor's house - Armon Hanatziv ) in Jerusalem.
After warning King Hussein repeatedly to cease fire, Israel conquered the West Bank and Jerusalem. During the first days of the war, Syrian artillery based in the Golan Heights pounded civilian targets in northern Israel. After dealing with Egypt, Israel decided to conquer the Golan heights, despite opposition and doubts of some in the government, including Moshe Dayan, who had been appointed defense minister. Israel agreed to a cease fire on June 11, 1967.
UN Resolution 242 called for negotiations of a permanent peace between the parties, and for Israeli withdrawal from lands occupied in 1967.
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How classic is the 6 day war? Arabs announce that they are going to wipe Israel off the map, then lose their tulips and territory.
Says a lot (in my opinion) about taking the fight to the people who proffess their intent to destroy you.
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it would happen again in a heart beat, Israel doesn't play games, they come to the party with their gloves off & brass knuckles on ....
that is why they still exist
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Six years later Arabs not done and after first bellybutton kicking, attack Israel and lose yet more land. : Note our "ally" Saudi Arabia's role.
In an effort to force Israel to unilaterally surrender captured lands, Egypt and Syria jointly attacked Israel on October 6, 1973, on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish calendar. Other Arab states contributed troops and financial support. Caught by surprise, Israel suffered severe losses in human life and equipment. Following an Egyptian refusal to accept a cease-fire and a Soviet airlift to the Arab states, the U.S. sent an airlift to Israel enabling her to recover from earlier setbacks. Saudi Arabia then led the Arab world in an oil embargo imposed on the United States and other western nations.
Following a cease-fire, the war officially ended on October 22, 1973 but fighting continued on the Egyptian-Israeli front and the U.S. and the Soviet Union were nearly dragged into a full-scale superpower confrontation. Such a confrontation was avoided and when hostilities finally ended, Israel held an additional 165 square miles of territory from Syria, and had encircled the Egyptian Third Army on the west bank of the Suez Canal. Egyptian forces held two areas of Israeli territory along the east bank of the canal. Israel, Egypt and Syria all held prisoners of war.
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Isreal is going to be bred off the map. The arabs in Isreal are reproducing at a much more rapid pacethat the Jewish Israelis
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That's why Isreal has the big one.
Les
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yep that is the real truth of it.
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If you look hard enough you can find parallels everywhere in history to aid whatever ideals you hold.
Its like looking at the clouds and seeing all kinds of shapes.
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That being said, you, from this point on, will never resort to such and expect to be taken seriously, right?
Right! Carry on. :D
Originally posted by Animal
If you look hard enough you can find parallels everywhere in history to aid whatever ideals you hold.
Its like looking at the clouds and seeing all kinds of shapes.
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Originally posted by Arlo
That being said, you, from this point on, will never resort to such and expect to be taken seriously, right?
Right! Carry on. :D
Right :)
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I would be interested in the source of your statistics, never-the-less I'd like to remind you that Israel has not closed it's doors to Jewish immigrants and the list is long.
Originally posted by Steve
Isreal is going to be bred off the map. The arabs in Isreal are reproducing at a much more rapid pacethat the Jewish Israelis
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It's amazing the different picture you can get when look at non Hasbara sources. (Hasbara is the Hebrew word meaning to explain, and also the name of an Israeli organisation and government program that diseminates propoganda to Europe and America. See http://www.infoisrael.net/ as one example.)
For example, you could look at what Yitzhak Rabin, chief of staff of the IDF had to say in 1968 to Le Monde:
"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai in May would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it."
You could look at what Menachem Begin (Israeli cabinet member during the war) had to say:
"In June, 1967, we again had a choice. the Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him"
You could look at what Moshe Dyan had to say about the way the IDF deliberately provoked the Syrians, repeatedly violating the DMZ until the Syrians fired, at which point Israel would respond with artillery and air strikes.
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I would be interested in the source of your statistics, never-the-less I'd like to remind you that Israel has not closed it's doors to Jewish immigrants and the list is long.
Currently the population of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza is about 50/50 Jewish and Arab (excluding other groups). The Arab birth rate is much higher than the Jewish birth rate, and within 10 years Jews will be a minority group.
There's a lot of debate within Israel about the demographic threat, and it's the motivating factor behind several groups calling for a peace deal and the withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza.
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I would still be interested in an official source. If you're one, I missed your credentials.
Thanks. :D
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Originally posted by Nashwan
Currently the population of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza is about 50/50 Jewish and Arab (excluding other groups). The Arab birth rate is much higher than the Jewish birth rate, and within 10 years Jews will be a minority group.
Well, its a good thing the arabs in the west bank and gaza strip are not Israeli citizens then dont you agree? I mean if they cant vote, who cares how many they are.
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I mean if they cant vote, who cares how many they are.
Israelis. There is a lot of discussion in the Israeli press about it. They get very worked up about words like apartheid being thrown their way.
In 20 years or so, when you have 6 million Jews ruling 10 million Palestinians, it gets more difficult to claim Israel as a democracy, when neither place of birth, or place of residence, determines citizenship, but only religion.
It also gets more and more difficult to police them. The IDF has to use reservists now, what happens when their population has doubled, and Israel's remains the same? Every citizen doing 3 months reserve duty? The economy is on it's knees as it is.
Not only the Palestinian birth rate is outstripping Israel's, but Israeli Arabs are outbreeding them as well. According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics, they currently make up 15% of the population, and have a birth rate double that of Israelis.
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Well then, if only the Pals and the Israeli arabs quit blowing stuff up, they could wait until they are a majority and vote the Israelis out of the west bank.
Because the Israelis are winning the war of attrition if you want to look at it that way.
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Well then, if only the Pals and the Israeli arabs quit blowing stuff up, they could wait until they are a majority and vote the Israelis out of the west bank.
No, Israel will take steps before then.
Candidates for the Knesset can be barred for questioning the Jewish nature of the state, and the Israeli public puts defending the Jewish nature of the state as more important than democracy in opinion polls.
There has been talk in recent years of a seperate parliament for Israeli Arabs, and I expect that to get more support as their numbers increase, if Israel has not become a more integrated society before then, and no deal has been concluded with the Palestinians.
Because the Israelis are winning the war of attrition if you want to look at it that way.
There is no war of attrition. The Israelis kill 1 - 2000 Palestinians a year for the last couple of years. The Palestinian growth rate is nearly 4% per annum, or about 150,000 people per year.
In fact, the closures and curfews actually push the birth rate up, as does increasing poverty.
The war is about public opinion. That's all terrorism can change.
The Palestinians seek to make the occupation too expensive for the Israelis, an have largely succeeded. The Israelis seek to make terrorism too expensive for the Palestinians, and have largely succeeded.
In the end of course nothing will change without outside pressure, because the Israelis equate possesion of the West Bank with security, and the Palestinians believe terrorism is the only way they can get Israel to end the occupation.
Thankfully the "road map" is about to be presented, and may offer a way out if the Americans put genuine pressure behind it.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
Thankfully the "road map" is about to be presented, and may offer a way out if the Americans put genuine pressure behind it.
I agree. But I dont think the US will put any real pressure behind it. Israel is too valuable to the US right now.
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Nashwan,
It is true that Israel started the 6 days war. While there was doubt if and when Egypt Syria and Jordan would start it, the first strike came more as an act of desperation rather then based on hard intel.
The moral was dangerously low, the common joke was to remind each other that "the last man should remember to turn off the lights".
In 1967 the 19 years old country was not sure of it's strength. Israel won the independence war by a margin, but at an atrocious cost. In 1957 it was with the (little) aid of france and britain and just against Egypt. The holocaust was still a fresh memory.
The 1948 borders were almost impossible to defend against attacks from all directions and there was a real danger of the country being cut into two halfs at the narrow waist in the middle (less then 20 km. check the scale http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/map23zsrl.html)
The decision was not to wait and see, but gain some greatly needed suprise advantage.
Still, any good decision must be stunk by the generals. It was recently published that the goverment specificly ordered NOT to reach the suez canal. But the generals got over exited (guess who was one of those that pressed hard to capture it - hint: a prime minister salamander).
The 6 days war was too much of a victory. It's like some molested kid suddenly realises that he has grown and can beat up anyone he likes.
the sin of pride - and still paying dearly for it.
Bozon
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But I dont think the US will put any real pressure behind it. Israel is too valuable to the US right now.
I doubt it will be backed up with enough serious pressure from America, but there are a lot of other factors at work.
Israel is in desperate economic trouble, and if they are resisting American pressure, it's harder for them to get loans from the US taxpayer. The upcoming US elections make it hard for Bush to oppose the Jewish lobby, but denying Israel large aid handouts in the runup to an elections isn't exactly a vote loser.
Also, if Abu Mazen can get his act together and enforce a temporary crackdown, then the Israeli public knows that peace can't last forever without a deal.
So there'll be pressure from the US, pressure from the Israeli public, most of whom approve of abandoning the West Bank and Gaza, and even Sharon sounds like he's starting to wobble. See today's interview he gave to Ha'aretz:
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=283307&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
It's created a storm amongst his right wing colleagues in government.
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Bozon, I am not suggesting Israel was wholly wrong, or even shares most of the blame. But Nuke's post suggesting Israel shares none of the blame, and that's just not true.
Both sides have been too eager to go to war, and not just in self defence. They also have their eyes on what they could gain, and Israel is no different in that.
I know Israeli intelligence thought Nasser wasn't going to attack, and I have seen it claimed Eshkol thought they were, but it wasn't simply a war of self defence. Israel had done it's share of provocation in the run up to the war, and they were anxious to expand their territory in the Sinai and Golan.