Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on April 13, 2003, 03:22:01 PM
-
Found this article...
U.S. Boycott Hurts French Cheese Exporters
By JOCELYN GECKER, Associated Press Writer
PARIS - One way to gauge how Americans are thinking about France after the split over the war in Iraq is to ask a cheese exporter like Marc Refabert.
The Frenchman has been inundated by more than 2,000 e-mails from American customers, ranging in tone from apologetic to impolite, but all carrying the message put succinctly by a man from Illinois: "We no longer buy French products."
Many American gourmets seem to be putting politics over palates, and, although they haven't released any numbers, French suppliers say their bottom lines are being hurt by the French government's refusal to back military action.
"I wish we could just invite people to have some cheese and wine and relax, but that wouldn't appear to be the solution for now," said Refabert, co-founder of the Internet retailer http://www.fromages.com, which grossed $500,000 last year, mostly on sales to the United States.
An anti-France reaction that started with "freedom fries" has taken on sprawling dimensions: Some U.S. lawmakers are urging American companies to skip the Paris Air Show. A U.S.-based Web site took advertising space in The New York Times urging consumers not to fly Air France, eat Yoplait yogurt or buy a long list of other French goods.
While brie and Bordeaux are unlikely to become permanent casualties, there is little doubt these and other products have become popular targets as Americans turn up their noses at the French.
For Refabert, the influx of nasty e-mails has declined from a peak at the start of the war, but sales at his Tours-based business have not recovered. He's hopeful U.S. demand for French cheese will pick up around Easter, normally one of his busiest periods.
On the other side of the Atlantic, vendors of French goods hold little optimism for a change soon.
Murray's Cheese Shop in New York, known for its extensive French variety, is running a sale of almost exclusively French cheeses.
"People are buying less French cheese, there's no question about it. And I don't believe its subsiding," said Robert Kaufelt, the shop's owner. "It's going to mean better bargains for the customers who do want to buy it."
Kaufelt feels anti-French sentiment has entered a new phase. Initially — after France's prewar threat to use its U.N. veto to block Security Council support for military action — customers berated Kaufelt for carrying French cheeses.
"We don't get any comments or remarks anymore. We're in the unspoken phase — where they're just not buying it," he said.
The anti-French tide has some vendors scrambling for more pro-American suppliers — like the British.
Kaufelt was one of five American foodbuyers who traveled to Yorkshire in northern England in late March looking for British cheeses that could substitute for his French offerings.
Several British newspapers chronicled the visit, reveling in the idea that the delights from Wensleydale and Thirsk could someday replace those from Camembert and Roquefort.
At Wensleydale Dairy, sales director Phil Jones welcomed the new interest in its cheese: "We're cheesemakers and we try not to get too involved with politics. But if politics helps us, well, we'll take advantage of that."
French wine and cheese exporters say it's too soon for precise figures on recent sales to the United States, but few expect those numbers to be positive.
Even once statistics are tabulated, it will be difficult to measure the true impact of a boycott on French business, which is already suffering from economic gloom and a depreciated dollar that makes French products pricier for Americans.
What's not in question is the importance of the American market. The United States was the world's largest consumer of French wines and spirits last year, accounting for nearly a quarter — $1.8 billion — of total French exports.
"It definitely is a bit more challenging to sell French wine these days," said Jacques Thebault of SOPEXA, a branch of the French Agriculture Ministry that markets French food products in the United States. "We believe we're going to have a short-term impact on sales."
Retailers and chain stores in several parts of the United States have put off planned promotions of French wines and delayed new orders, Thebault said.
At the Syndicale des Negotiants de Beaune, which represents 70 producers of Burgundy and Beaujolais wines, they're taking a low profile.
"We're not looking to actively sell French wines in the United States," spokesman Denis Deveau said. "It wouldn't be the politically correct thing to do."
-
Buy dutch cheese.
Get some real eddammers.
:)
-
This is SO retarded..
Hey all you Good ol' Boys..driving your CHEVYS.. You better send em all back to France.. CHEVROLET was a Frenchman.
-
Originally posted by hawk220
This is SO retarded..
Hey all you Good ol' Boys..driving your CHEVYS.. You better send em all back to France.. CHEVROLET was a Frenchman.
Ya know all the good ole boy red necks I know have cut way down on their french wine and cheese intake :rolleyes:
idiot...
-
Originally posted by Udie
Ya know all the good ole boy red necks I know have cut way down on their french wine and cheese intake :rolleyes:
idiot...
ROFL!!!
-
udie
you're not too bright, are you?
-
Originally posted by hawk220
udie
you're not too bright, are you?
Looks like someone cant take the fact that his ridiculous attempt at wit blew up in his face...
-
UUUUGh.. ok udie
I'll type real slooow so you can keep up with your 'hooked on phonics' textbook
its absurd to punish the French Gov by sending back Chevrolets cause Louis Chevrolet was French.. its ALSO absurd to punish French cheesemakers cause their Government disagrees with the US. see? kinda the same thing.. see? thus my comment on how retarded the cheese boycott is.
it has nothing to do with the connection between rednecks and cheese as your cute snippet would suggest
-
When I order a sandwich, I stopped asking for it on french bread. LOL. I just can't see myself saying that name when ordering a sandwich, even though I know it has nothing to do with France or imports/exports. Sourdough it is now. I know that's silly of me. I did buy some new shoes the other day, Sketchers...though found out when at home they were manufactured in China. I did wish I hadn't purchased them learning that. Otherwise, that's about as far as I've gone now. I don't think I buy anything French otherwise. I'm not rabid about boycotting French goods, but it did push me a little further to thinking twice about trying to support those companies here at home more than I might've thought before. Trade is good and leads to specialization which can help the consumer in the long run, but I'm a bit more patriotic these days.
Hawk, here's another great quote by him:
IF God listened to the prayers of men, all men would quickly have perished for they are forever praying for evil against one another. -Epicurus
-
Originally posted by hawk220
its absurd to punish the French Gov by sending back Chevrolets cause Louis Chevrolet was French.. its ALSO absurd to punish French cheesemakers cause their Government disagrees with the US. see? kinda the same thing.. see? thus my comment on how retarded the cheese boycott is.
Was it ok to punish the South African wine makers because their government was segregating their population?
Was it ok to punish the French wine makers when the French nuked the Mururoa atoll (again)?
What exactly is wrong with a boycott as a means to demonstrate your personal opinion? Many many people boycott Jaffa oranges because they dislike the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians...are they wrong too?
I know for a fact that Chirac sure as he** dont care about my opinions. I do know that he does care if everyone stops buying french stuff. Boycotts work, if enough people do it.
-
When the business of Marc Refabert and others like him goes down la toilette, do you think he'll pass on his concern to his government? Is it possible he will suggest that their approach in the UN SC was très mauvais and not très bon?
-
Hort
I think its wrong that the people who are just trying to make a buck or euro get the ungreased shaft when their Govs make policies. I know there are countless things that the US has done that the world would boycott our products. How often does a product boycott actually have effect on national policy? I'd venture a guess pretty rare. It seems that it is a way to let the population vent and rage at another country. I guess I think its directing anger at the wrong people. NO, I don't agree with the French gov on their policy in Iraq, but I don't hate the French cheesemaker and don't want him to suffer.
Puke
I like that quote too. equally as deep as the other one. Makes a person think.
-
Originally posted by hawk220
Hort
I think its wrong that the people who are just trying to make a buck or euro get the ungreased shaft when their Govs make policies. I know there are countless things that the US has done that the world would boycott our products. How often does a product boycott actually have effect on national policy? I'd venture a guess pretty rare. It seems that it is a way to let the population vent and rage at another country. I guess I think its directing anger at the wrong people. NO, I don't agree with the French gov on their policy in Iraq, but I don't hate the French cheesemaker and don't want him to suffer.
Puke
I like that quote too. equally as deep as the other one. Makes a person think.
I don't hate him, but I want him to suffer.
I want him to suffer so bad, that every day he wakes up, he writes a letter to Chirac, telling him how much his poor decision is making the cheesemaker suffer.
-
I want him to suffer so bad, that every day he wakes up, he writes a letter to Chirac, telling him how much his poor decision is making the cheesemaker suffer.
I thought this harsh when I read it first, then thought about it. I suppose in a better world, this would work. (or work better) if the govs actually listened to the people getting screwed the worst., the power of the vote and all that. does that happen? do they listen and alter policy based on the concerns of the people?
oh god..I'm an idealist
someone shoot me
-
Originally posted by hawk220
This is SO retarded..
Hey all you Good ol' Boys..driving your CHEVYS.. You better send em all back to France.. CHEVROLET was a Frenchman.
I said a while back on the boards that the americans would stop buying french produce and hurt thier economy. I also said the iraqis would be dancing in the streets when we rolled in
I hate to say I told yall so :D:D:D:D:D
Hawk, chevrolet is not produced by french folks, cheese is.
Your statement makes no sense at all.
I use frenchs mustard.
-
Big difference between a company with a French name (Chevy) and a company that sends my $ to France.
-
Hawk, did you know that Louis Chevorlet came to live in America before he was hired as a consulting engineer by W.C. Durant, the founder of General Morors? However, Chevrolet only wanted his name on big expensive autos. Due to the disagreement he sold out relatively cheap but Durant kept the name and the rest is history. The Chevrolet trademark really owes nothing to France.
-
Americans faulting certain europeans immediatly anti-american when something is said against and then taking it a step further by refusing to buy some french product and renaming things like french fries...
(now which is more anti-?)
Thats just.. sick.
-
Originally posted by Fishu
Americans faulting certain europeans immediatly anti-american when something is said against and then taking it a step further by refusing to buy some french product and renaming things like french fries...
(now which is more anti-?)
Thats just.. sick.
actually, it's freedom.
This isn't a US gov't conspiracy.
It isn't a mandate.
It's every individual's freedom to express their support for allies, and irritation at those who oppose us.
-
I still fail to see how good ol' boys and french cheese are related.
Now, rich yuppies... that'd make more sense.
-SW
-
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I still fail to see how good ol' boys and french cheese are related.
Now, rich yuppies... that'd make more sense.
-SW
now, if it were good ol' boys and Cheese Whiz, that would be different.....
-
Originally posted by Fishu
Americans faulting certain europeans immediatly anti-american when something is said against and then taking it a step further by refusing to buy some french product and renaming things like french fries...
(now which is more anti-?)
Thats just.. sick.
Wow.. didn't see this attitude displayed in this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82789) about Germans boycotting American products.
Participate or don't. What you're doing now is biased and makes you look silly.
MiniD
-
Originally posted by Fishu
Americans faulting certain europeans immediatly anti-american when something is said against and then taking it a step further by refusing to buy some french product and renaming things like french fries...
(now which is more anti-?)
Thats just.. sick.
You'll get no argument from me on the Freedom Fries issue. Frivolous stupidity at its finest.
However, refusing to buy a French product is a form of activism. While some may stop shaving and bathing and don their Birkenstocks to go carry signs around Main Street, I choose to go to work and then use my hard-earned money to make my opinion heard. When the French wine producers see their sales take a hit, they will do the activism for me and petition their government to back off of its current stance. A French corporation holds far more sway over French policy than an American student 3,000 miles away. So I must work through them.
As long as I support a lefty's right to carry signs around on Main Street, the lefties better support my right to spend my money however I see fit.
-
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I still fail to see how good ol' boys and french cheese are related.
Now, rich yuppies... that'd make more sense.
-SW
I think he missed my the point tot my post, looks like the idiot part was true after all :D
-
the function of western governments is to a large extent to facilitate and protect it's nations trade. governments collect duties taxes and tarifs on trade.
when a nations trade is reduced, that nations government funding is affected. vis a vis in capatalistic society, the nations corporate enitys are powerful lobbys. if the french cheese and wine industries are pinched, they will put pressure on the government to change the policys that provoked the boycott.
i strongly support boycotts.
and if that don't work, bomb the sonsasqueakes.
-
Originally posted by Udie
Ya know all the good ole boy red necks I know have cut way down on their french wine and cheese intake :rolleyes:
idiot...
ROTFLOL
WTG Udie, and to top it off, he still hasn't gotten it!!!
LMFAO :D
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
ROTFLOL
WTG Udie, and to top it off, he still hasn't gotten it!!!
LMFAO :D
:D
Hey Hollis, pass me that thar Grey Poupon over thar, I need it fer my hordeovers.. :D
-
This can only benefit California farmers.
All your cheese are belong to us.
-
Originally posted by Puke
I don't think I buy anything French otherwise.
Hey , you have Forgotten Battles don't you?:D
-
oh yeah, Forgotten Battles is full of bugs and worms like french cheese :D ;)
-
No cheese for you ONE year :)
Frankly except for http://www.fromages.com impact is : Nil ...
-
New Zealand makes far better wines and cheeses than France anyway.
-
Well, the only ones you are hurting, is yourself, by missing a great different meal. I don't see why I would have to stuff myself with only Cheddar & Gouda. Boycott french beer instead, it's terrible! :D
-
Originally posted by GScholz
You know, I'm perfectly capable of having a heated argument with my friends, and not getting unfriendly with them in the process. Why can't nations act like grownups?
So what happens when you have heated arguments with your enemies? LOL and arent you the one who threatened to drive to Sweden and kick my bellybutton at one time? ;)
Better think about what you wish for.
-
Originally posted by Vulcan
New Zealand makes far better wines and cheeses than France anyway.
You have to send me a parcel now !
I'll need to check it myself
Just send me the cheese I've already tasted the wine ;)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
France, Germany and even Russia to some degree were considered friends by the US before all this.
You presume too much Hortlund, I can still make that visit. Be careful what you whish for. ;)
Key word being "were".
And I wasnt asking for you to come over and kick my ass, it was just an example on how grown ups can behave sometimes.
-
Originally posted by Tarmac
While some may stop shaving and bathing and don their Birkenstocks to go carry signs around Main Street
Hey you think hippies just stoped batheing for the war ... lmao they never bathe! Strangefolk and I think MaxCreek? are haveing a nice camping "hippie" show at the end of may .. you should show up and see for youself :D
You know I never liked France much after some bad experiances in Nice and Paris. At least I based my opinions on experiance; But damn some of you people jump on the american propoganda band wagon....
What your saying is freedom of speech is bad...
you better do what America wants or else, fall in line or we'll make you hurt in the purse (just like Microsoft LOL) maybe we need an open source UN? :D ......
don't hold me exactly to these numbers but I think France has Vetoed 10-15 times in UN history ..and the US around 50 times..... hummmm.... so you want to punish the French for thinking on thier own? It's not like they have histroy of 'whineing' in the UN. Maybe, like many americans, they think this War was a handsomehunk idea , and unlike the British goverment, they pay attention to what thier people want.
where does the US govement put it's attention? .. anywhere but home.
I hear in a grand stroke of PR the US will provide health care and education for Iraqies..... where is my health care .. where is my education ... fediddlein' aholes in D.C.
I think I'm going to go out and buy a nice Pinot Nior.
-
Chevrolet brothers were American citizens. Some may have noticed that people that were formerly from other countries are now U.S. citizens.... You may also note the lack of people that are U.S. citizens giving up their citizenship.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Manedew
What your saying is freedom of speech is bad...
you better do what America wants or else, fall in line or we'll make you hurt in the purse (just like Microsoft LOL) maybe we need an open source UN? :D ......
don't hold me exactly to these numbers but I think France has Vetoed 10-15 times in UN history ..and the US around 50 times..... hummmm.... so you want to punish the French for thinking on thier own? It's not like they have histroy of 'whineing' in the UN. Maybe, like many americans, they think this War was a handsomehunk idea , and unlike the British goverment, they pay attention to what thier people want.
I think maybe you don't understand what a veto is, in this context. In the UNSC, a veto kills the resolution. Period.
It doesn't matter what the vote is. By France saying they are going to veto, they are saying they don't care what the will of the rest of the SC is, they are going to force their will on others.
On the flip side, a "NO" vote by any permanent member is considered a veto. Therefore, if 75% of the SC voted against a resolution, and a permanent member voted "NO", it is recorded as a vetoed resolution. So using recorded number of vetoes to support your argument in this sense is inaccurate. I'm not saying that the data is inaccurate, since I don't know either way.
I'm merely saying that you provide a fact (well, not really, you insinuate a fact) and use it as a comparison that may not be true.
-
What your saying is freedom of speech is bad...
Why isn't my choice of what countries get my hard earned dollars just as valid a form of free speech?
If burning an American flag is procted free speech, surely selective purchasing is.
Wab
-
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Why isn't my choice of what countries get my hard earned dollars just as valid a form of free speech?
If burning an American flag is procted free speech, surely selective purchasing is.
Wab
Not saying it isn't your free speech right , saying your attacking them for saying what they think.... it's an economic attack. It is your right... but do you think it's right ....?
Do you not buy from the baker down the street because he's anti-war .. that's what doesn't make sense to me? Why the French? Lots of people think this war is stupid. Like me.
if Bill Gates was anti-war would you switch to Linux? That's the part of this I don't understand from you pro-war type's.
-
Originally posted by Manedew
Not saying it isn't your free speech right , saying your attacking them for saying what they think.... it's an economic attack. It is your right... but do you think it's right ....?
Do you not buy from the baker down the street because he's anti-war .. that's what doesn't make sense to me? Why the French? Lots of people think this war is stupid. Like me.
if Bill Gates was anti-war would you switch to Linux? That's the part of this I don't understand from you pro-war type's.
Yep. If that baker was anti-war, and I knew about it, I wouldn't buy from him. There are several businesses in my area that advertise their anti-war status, and I don't use any of them. I've also cancelled my corporate accounts with several French owned businesses.
-
So in essence, I'm being asked to choose between France and Wisconsin. What type of choice is that :)
Charon
-
Originally posted by Manedew
Not saying it isn't your free speech right , saying your attacking them for saying what they think.... it's an economic attack. It is your right... but do you think it's right ....?
No more or less correct than France vetoing the security council vote.
Freedome of speech is one thing... shear hatred is another thing. The recent summit meeting with France, Germany and Russia was broadcast with translations for every major language except English. Do you not buy from the baker down the street because he's anti-war .. that's what doesn't make sense to me? Why the French? Lots of people think this war is stupid. Like me.
Anti war? Hmmmm... this is part of the problem. France is not anti war. They've been supplying weapons to virtually every country with a dollar. France has been making money off of wars for some time. The problem is France is anti-American. If there was a baker down the street that was anti-American... well... He can see how easy it is to open a bakery in another country.
This coalition against the war seems to be comprised of countries that buy their oil from Iraq or sell weapons to them. The anti-war sentiment is incredibly misguided. How about if you admit that its "America is ****ing with our bottom line and we're not going to take it!" and nothing more noble than that.if Bill Gates was anti-war would you switch to Linux? That's the part of this I don't understand from you pro-war type's.
Lame analogy.
-
Originally posted by Fishu
Americans faulting certain europeans immediatly anti-american when something is said against and then taking it a step further by refusing to buy some french product and renaming things like french fries...
(now which is more anti-?)
Thats just.. sick.
It's too bad isn't it. Perhaps a spade should be called a spade in the future, rather than phony friendships being courted by diplomats.
I find all of this refreshingly honest.
-
according to the world fact book, the US has a 3.5/1000 marker to it's population growth.
-
Originally posted by Mini D
Freedome of speech is one thing... shear hatred is another thing. The recent summit meeting with France, Germany and Russia was broadcast with translations for every major language except English.
Umm I think 'we', the US, started this 'us and them' thing ... long before sept. 11th.
-
Originally posted by Manedew
Umm I think 'we', the US, started this 'us and them' thing ... long before sept. 11th.
We did? How? When?
-
Backing out of treaties and pissing everyone off
-
Originally posted by Manedew
Backing out of treaties and pissing everyone off
what treaties?
-
GSholz,
In my work-life experience, Ex-Pats normally get very nice financial arrangements for living and working overseas. Normally better than for the same work performed in the States.
I know the companies I've worked for did this. Of course, the vast majority of the time, the arrangement had a time frame stamped around it also.
My wife is from Italy, and became a citizen of the US alot later so she could vote. But as we are trading anecdotes, I'll share what she has to say about this....She has always stated that there is still no place equalled to the US for opportunity and the chance to improve one's standard of living. Granted she came from a rural part of Southern Italy, but it says something that her family came to the States to improve their lives and not to another European Country or even within Italy. Which does not say that the same isn't possible...I believe it is.
They came here literally not speaking a word of English. They rented a small apartment for the entire family, and he worked for an auto-body shop.
In the following years, he bought the Auto-Body shop, bought the 6 family house they first rented the apartment from (and 3 other 2 family homes), sent 3 daughters to college, sold the Auto-Body shop and is retired.
If we're going to trade those types of stories, than our immigration numbers alone would tell this story many times over.
My father owned a Cabinet Company in the Midwest, and hired a few immigrants from Korea in the late 70's when there was a large wave of folks from that country that settled in the Midwest.
Again, these people did not speak the language at the time they arrived. But during the following years the Korean employees rose up to supervisory positions...A couple even started their own businesses and 1 started his own Cabinet company.
I personally know of many more stories like that, then just the 2 you site. But you know, it's all anecdotal and doesn't prove much aside from the personal drive of these folks.
-
Not saying it isn't your free speech right , saying your attacking them for saying what they think.... it's an economic attack. It is your right... but do you think it's right ....?
You bet. As you admit, its my absolute right. Its economic speech. Its non-violent. And in the aggregate of millions, it could have a quite noticable effect. I choose where my money goes and not you or anyone else. I can change my spending habits whenever I choose, for whatever reason pleases me. Period. Its not for you or anyone else to tell me its not "right". I'll spend where I please.
Its my little slice of leverage.
Wab
-
Originally posted by Manedew
Umm I think 'we', the US, started this 'us and them' thing ... long before sept. 11th.
The fact that this comes off sounding as if it were delivered by a 3rd grader pretty much summizes most people's view of the French and Russian governments right now.
Some other lines you should try:
"I know you are, but what am I?"
"Who the hell do you think you are?!"
"Those damn Americans!"
MiniD