Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on April 14, 2003, 04:11:56 AM
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Something just hit me as I was reading a news telegram about the Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz warning Syria to stop supporting Hezbollah (terrorists) and to comply with the US demands to stop aiding the Iraqis.
Iraq is gone, and with that, the greatest threat for WMD attacks on Israel. IDF is one of the absolute best armed forces in the world.
What if the war on Syria will be through proxy (i e Israel).
The diplomatic fallout from US moving in on Syria right now would be too severe, I honestly dont think the US would dare to take out Syria right now.
But what about Israel? They sure could do it just as effective as the US could. The end result would be the same (scratch another moslem dictatorship supporting terrorism), the fallout wouldn't be too bad on the US. Especially not if the US voiced strong concerns or maybe even some UNSC resolution demanding an end to the hostilities or something dreadful like that.
So the arabs would hate the Israelis? So what, they already do that.
Hm, the more I think about it, the more plausible the idea sounds.
I mean who would threaten Israel if they did move in? Egypt or Jordan? I dont think so. And the war would take something like 2-3 weeks, probably even less, since the IDF hasnt ever had any problems going to Damascus. After they remove the current dictatorship and their supposed wmd's, terrorist leaders and hiding Iraqis, the Israelis could back out again saying encouraging words like "so sorry". Maybe the UN could fill the void after that dictatorship...who knows, doesnt really matter either since the Israelis and the US probably have some exile leader they could insert there too..
Hmm..
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Uhhhm no...
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only if you yourself agree to be in the front line during the assult Hortlund.
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
only if you yourself agree to be in the front line during the assult Hortlund.
Bozon
?
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Bozon, you mean that managing wars seated in a big and comfortable chair with blankets wrapped round you and watching at the television is easier than fighting at the front?
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Originally posted by bozon
only if you yourself agree to be in the front line during the assult Hortlund.
Bozon
Well said Bozon :)
;)
... and Gatt :D
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pretty much
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Originally posted by bozon
only if you yourself agree to be in the front line during the assult Hortlund.
Well, I see you aren't gonna elaborate on exactly what you mean by that quote. So I guess we'll see what happens...
But I have to admit, I dont think the IDF will insist on having me in the front line in order to attack.
"We cannot possibly attack unless Hortlund is here with us"
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I think the news in Al Jezeera is already headed that way:
Washington ups the ante against Syria (http://english.aljazeera.net/topics/article.asp?cu_no=1&item_no=2564&version=1&template_id=263&parent_id=258)
accused Israel of masterminding the accusations in an effort to sour US-Syrian ties. Reports attributed to Israeli intelligence say that prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Baghdad had placed its WMD's and banned missiles close to the Syrian border to facilitate a quick crossover.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
"We cannot possibly attack unless Hortlund is here with us"
It's up to you to keep world peace, Horty:)
Damnasscus is watching you closely!!!!
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Hortlund, nothing personal m8. I was refering to gatt's reply that explained it nicely.
This is not like the european or american wars away from home, pounding some distant land killing the "barbarians" while the guys at home get to watch it on TV. In the Israeli case it's a war on it's border, they will have to live with the consequences if the war goes sour and considering the distances, all major cities are in scud (and also short range missile and artillery) range.
ponder about it a little in a comfort sofa.
Bozon
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That would be a first, a swede on the front line.. :D
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The presence of the IDF certainly makes a US invasion easier. There is no way the syrians can defend south and east.
Hard to see whats in it for Isreal though. They know all about helping super powers then being abandoned by them for oil. Look at how the Brits and French abandonded them after they helped at Suez in 56. Who ends up helping them? The US who were the ones that betrayed the French and Brits at Suez...
its a wierd world.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Oh cool! Then we all could stock up on six-packs and popcorn, and watch the Middle-East self-destruct live on TV!
That is a scary thought. You're right, if Isreal attacks anyone, all hell will break out.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
That is a scary thought. You're right, if Isreal attacks anyone, all hell will break out.
Not really. Everyone knows Israel has nukes. Everyone knows the US will back Israel in case the survival of Israel is at stake. Everyone knows the Chinese, Russians, French, Whathaveyou have no possible way to back the Arabs the way the USSR did once.
Sure there would be alot of whining and gnashing of teeth in arab-street, but any nation declaring war on Israel would in effect commit suicide...everyone knows that.
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Originally posted by Pongo
The presence of the IDF certainly makes a US invasion easier. There is no way the syrians can defend south and east.
Hard to see whats in it for Isreal though. They know all about helping super powers then being abandoned by them for oil. Look at how the Brits and French abandonded them after they helped at Suez in 56. Who ends up helping them? The US who were the ones that betrayed the French and Brits at Suez...
its a wierd world.
Were did you learn history ?
Remind-me who betrayed who at Suez ?
Can you write it using HUGE letters ?
it should be easy as it's only 3 letter long.
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Where do I go to apply as a candidate for the democratic election of the next ruler of Iraq?
(http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~prospero/images/screenshot/tswlm8.jpg)
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Originally posted by straffo
Were did you learn history ?
Remind-me who betrayed who at Suez ?
Can you write it using HUGE letters ?
it should be easy as it's only 3 letter long.
Maybe you should tell us so that we can know if your an idiot or very deep. Read my post again. I spotted you the U and the S.
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Originally posted by GScholz
If Israel used nukes she would be isolated from the world. You know Hortlund, the current US administration and even the Israelis under Sharon are not as borderline fascistic like you. The US would not, could not support Israel if she committed genocide like that. Israel would not even be able to feed her population without the imports. Not even NK would touch her with a ten foot pole.
Where did I say the Israelis would use their nukes? I just pointed out that they have them. Something that undoubtedly will make any potential agressor think twice before launching a conventional war on them.
As for the personal attacks and insults. I honestly dont know why you chose to include those. Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions, maybe you should cut back on the personal attacks.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Sure there would be alot of whining and gnashing of teeth in arab-street, but any nation declaring war on Israel would in effect commit suicide...everyone knows that.
The arab governments are having a hard time containing their people as it is. If Isreal gets involved arab governments could be overthrown and chaos will insue. The middle east would explode. Isreal does not want this to happen more than anyone. I don't think they will be attacking anyone. I hope not anyway.
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I could rule Iraq. Just give me half of one of them palaces with the amazing interiors and only a small harem (re-evaluated annually) and I will smile for the camera and shake hands with the high and mighty. There would be no need for statues, either - I would be a very even-handed and fair-minded ruler who everyone would love.
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Originally posted by Dowding
(re-evaluated annually)
:D
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Steve.. I'd guess that if Isreal moved on Syria she'd be totally isolated.
We'd not support her unless Syrai struck first in a 'pearl harbor' style military attack..
It's just not a smart tool move. I think america will wake up to the fact that Israel is NOT an ally of America in any meaningful way any damn day now.
She propogates terror by grinding palestininas under her heel, is standing in violation of UN resolutions, has refused to cease espionoge activities within our borders, continues to sell US technology to proscribed nations, refuses extradition of american citizens wanted in this country for murder, has used duplictious means to secure funding, has violated the terms for that funding... etc etc etc.
No.. if Syria does not not directly treaten the U.S.; if it does resond correctly to diplomatic demands for known iraq war criminals proven to be under it's protection then Syria need not worry about military interference from America.
While Syria has some dirty rags in it's closet.. the bloody ones in the israli cabinet concern me more.
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Not entirely inplausible Hortlund. If the US cannot get the support, why not let Israel do it for them? They're hated in the region already, and any products they need from the Arab world they can buy from the US.
If the US is determined to get Syria, it'd be one way to go around the Western world. The Arabs would see it as a Zionist conspiracy, too.
A definite possibility, I'd say.
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Originally posted by StSanta
Not entirely inplausible Hortlund. If the US cannot get the support, why not let Israel do it for them? They're hated in the region already, and any products they need from the Arab world they can buy from the US.
If the US is determined to get Syria, it'd be one way to go around the Western world. The Arabs would see it as a Zionist conspiracy, too.
A definite possibility, I'd say.
Yes, your insinuations make a lot of sense.
That's probably why just this week they offered to give up space in order to cease hostilities with Syria.
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Originally posted by Dowding
...and only a small harem (re-evaluated annually)...
Just how many young arab men would your harem require Dowding????
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Originally posted by GScholz
Peronal attack? I was just making an observation. My impression of you is that of a far-right borderline fascist. I may be wrong, but that's what I think of you.
Btw. Judge Hortlund rebuking people for making personal attacks must be the greatest Swedish irony since King Carl Gustav got shot by his own men at Fredriksten fortress.
Fine, have it your way.
Let me point out then that your general knowledge in history seems to be on pair with your general intelligence level...Carolus XII was shot in Norway, not "King Carl Gustav" who is alive and well thankyou.
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Straffo, that is exactly what Pongo said, I think you missread him :)
No need to act like arses guys.. english is not his 1st language.
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Bodhi - are you pimping for your boy-squeakes again? Or maybe that is a personal offer?
Either way, i'll pass, thanks. I'd much rather have some of those fit westernized Jordanian women I saw on the TV the other day.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Yes, your insinuations make a lot of sense.
That's probably why just this week they offered to give up space in order to cease hostilities with Syria.
W H A T?
Did the Israelis offer to give up the Golan heights?
Link please.
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http://www.satirewire.com/briefs/virtualpalestine.shtml
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lol matlet
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Heh, actually, I just couldn't remember where I had seen it.
No specifics mentioned, but here's the real link.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/13/sharon.settlements/index.html
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hangtime:
She propogates terror by grinding palestininas under her heel, is standing in violation of UN resolutions, has refused to cease espionoge activities within our borders, continues to sell US technology to proscribed nations, refuses extradition of american citizens wanted in this country for murder, has used duplictious means to secure funding, has violated the terms for that funding... etc etc etc.
I can only agree on your statment till the second comma. The rest is a load of crap.
is standing in violation of UN resolutions - when the UN wasn't going the US's way it was ignored too. One only have to get a quick look at the UN's doing in southern Lebanon to see why this organization is a joke.
refused to cease espionoge activities within our borders? - you mean the US is not involved in any espionoge activities within Israeli borders?
continues to sell US technology to proscribed nations? - such as? the US won't let Israel sel it's own technology to coutries such as china (does that threatens the US too?). and the US sells weapons only to enlightened democracies.
refuses extradition of american citizens wanted in this country for murder - true, that case was a legal loop hole. still LEGAL, and the man was trialed.
has used duplictious means to secure funding? - ??
Bozon
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Originally posted by Martlet
No specifics mentioned,
Trust me, the Golan heights is the last place the Israelis will give up. Well maybe East Jerusalem too, but you get the idea.
I thought he was talking about the settlements in the west bank.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I think america will wake up to the fact that Israel is NOT an ally of America in any meaningful way any damn day now.
Sorry Hang, but you're wrong here. If it wasnt for Israeli intel, the war on terror would be a true waste of time. Israel is the only US ally that has intel resources in the Arab world.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
W H A T?
Did the Israelis offer to give up the Golan heights?
Link please.
If israel gives up the golan heights they will be at war in months.
Israelis dont like motar shells lobbed at them from the high places.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Sorry Hang, but you're wrong here. If it wasnt for Israeli intel, the war on terror would be a true waste of time. Israel is the only US ally that has intel resources in the Arab world.
I'd have to disagree. Well, sort of.
I really hate the term ally, since what it boils down to is who has interests in seeing you be successful. The current war is a prime example. Sure, countries like Australia, UK, etc will most likely stick together through most things for some time to come, but look at Russia. We were hand in hand until a few months ago.
Why does Russia not support the war in Iraq? Because they were in bed with Saddam. Same with France. I'm not trying to get on that topic. You could apply the same to the US in any number of copies. I'm just saying that our "allies" change with our presidents, and what our current goals are. Just like everyone elses.
As far as Intel, I'd be extremely hard pressed to believe our only intel is Israel. I served with SOS/MIF team 202 in South America, and I was amazed at where we got our info. One thing I learned is, if you've got the cash, your worst enemy would sell his mother for it.
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Geeh, yer really a hostile little bugger eh Martlet? I ain't out after yah, so relax a bit bud
Yes, your insinuations make a lot of sense.
That's probably why just this week they offered to give up space in order to cease hostilities with Syria.
I'm insinuating nothing, really. What I am saying directly is that if the US wants to go to war against Syria but cannot find popular support, using Israel as a proxy is a possibility.
That way, the relationship between Europe and the US won't be strained so much more, same with Arabs (compared to direct US intervention, which would scare 'em a lot). And there is a general sentiment that the US isn't so bad - it's just controlled by Zionists - amongst Arabs. So it is not entirely impossible that such a thing can be pulled off.
That's all I'm saying. Not sure what you refer to when you say I insinuated something? Just palying it out in my head to see if it is possible or feasible. As to what the US will do, I have no idea. But Bush will reveal that soon enough.
Lighten up bud :)
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That way, the relationship between Europe and the US won't be strained so much more, same with Arabs (compared to direct US intervention, which would scare 'em a lot). And there is a general sentiment that the US isn't so bad - it's just controlled by Zionists - amongst Arabs. So it is not entirely impossible that such a thing can be pulled off.
this doesn't make any sense. If the zionists control america then Israel would fight syria through a proxy (the US)... It didn't happen in the last 50 years.
the accusation as if 5 million people country, on the edge of the western world (with some 3rd world aspects) controlls the 300 (?) million people western super power is rediculous.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Maybe you should tell us so that we can know if your an idiot or very deep. Read my post again. I spotted you the U and the S.
just re-read you post.
I completly mis-translated the last sentence,if you english writer cab stop using funky sentence strutures life would be easy for me :)
sorry to have jumped on you,please accept my apology.
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Isreal put a pretty good deal on the table, but they held out for more, so Isreal took the deal off the table. Now that Sharon is in they won't see a deal that comes close to the old one.
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Bozon it IS ridiculous, i agree completely! Which is why I was surprised to see interviews in Syria with men at cafés - one of them saying 'the Americans, the real Americans...they are good enough. But they are being mislead and controlled by the Zionists!'.
Others expressed similar sentiments. So it is there, no matter how absurd.
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whatever happens, syria will now do it with alittle less cheap oil :)