Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: acepilot2 on April 14, 2003, 10:29:39 AM
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I know a ton of people are going to disagree with me, but HO dweebs really need to learn how to fight. AH is not much fun anymore. Dogfights are non-existent. Everyone is an HO dweeb. I keep either getting shot down or shooting down HO dweebs. There is no fun in it. What happened to the exciting rush of dogfighting, twisting and turning around, trying to throw off you enemy? Now its all HOs. Please, go to the TA and learn how to fight realisticaly...or the fighter part of AH will collapse.
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You're probably fighting the speed burners, like P-51s, LA-7s, FW-190s, F4Us, P-47s, and Me-110s, right?
All you can do is avoid the HO and then try to get a few hits in as they go on by.
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I am fighting all kinds of planes. Most of the time i try and turn sharply to avoid them. The thing that gets me though is when they make me think that their dogfighting. I may be on their six, and they will be doing all sorts of rolls and loops when they suddenly turn around and fire at me before i can react. This happens commonly to me when the enemy plane is doing a loop.
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Originally posted by acepilot2
The thing that gets me though is when they make me think that their dogfighting. I may be on their six, and they will be doing all sorts of rolls and loops when they suddenly turn around and fire at me before i can react.
Let me get this straight. So you're on their 6. And they start evading? They maneuver into a position to shoot at you? And they actually start shooting?
You're right... that is dogfighting :)
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If I am turning with someone & there plane crosses guns, I am pulling trigger, which ever angle it is.
So, those HO dweebs you shoot down, is that shooting them down HO, if so you are one too.
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It always takes two to HO.
HO should always expected from the enemy, just like everything else, as there is no such excuse as "I thought he'd fight honorably and not engage in a HO". This game does not simulate a sports competition. It simulates war machines and their clashes.
In the air, anything goes(except exploits and cheats which is something outside the boundaries of things which can be accepted) - there's no such thing as 'honor' in tactical decisions.
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If you see a Ho coming, avoid it. There's no such thing as 'unavoidable HO'. Nobody put a gun against your head and demanded you point your plane's nose against his nose.
If you are forced into a situation where you are exposed to the other guy's guns head-on, it just means you didn't take the adequate steps to prevent from something like that happening in the first place. Your mistake, no one else to blame.
Besides, most HOs are easily avoided. An effective HO is very rare unless both opponents are serious about landing a shot in such a situation(in other words - suicidal). If somebody actually puts in a lethal shot against a plane moving away from a HO, with such high closure rate and short time to react, by every right he earned that kill.
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The best way to avoid a HO is first and foremost NOT trying to make a shot yourself. Assume the guy is trying for a HO, forget about trying yourself, and barrel roll when he is just under 1 k out. When you come out of the barrel roll yank hard on the stick and loop over the top (if you have enogh speed). If he is a HO dweeb and has no idea how to fight he is yours, particularly if he tries a horizontal turn to get back around on you. If he is an experienced fighter pilot then you still have work to do...and it may involve avoiding a few more HOs...but at least you have a fight on your hands, which is what you are after in the first place.
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gofaster : You're probably fighting the speed burners, like P-51s, LA-7s, FW-190s, F4Us, P-47s, and Me-110s, right?
acepilot2 : I am fighting all kinds of planes.
Nice try gofaster ... Your bait wasn't smelly enuff ... :D
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The plane being small with that huge icon over it can be deceptive at time. You think he's still going away, but instead that *&^%*^% P38 (AKAK) already turned his nose back on you... Surpriiise! ping ping ping boom.
That's not a HO, that's called being caught with yer pants down.
Do not mistake frnt quater shots from HO's, and don't forget it doesn't always look the same on both FEs. Like Kwess said, most of them can be avoided and used at your advantage.
What I do despise is when you have a gang above you, and they all start taking turns comming for your face.
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Only thing worse than an HO dweeb (of which I am occasionally a proud member) is an HO dweeb whiner. Suck it up.
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I give this a 9.5 on the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHom etre.
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Originally posted by acepilot2
Now its all HOs. Please, go to the TA and learn how to fight realisticaly...or the fighter part of AH will collapse.
What do you mean by "fight realisticaly" ? We all have to assume that you are referring to the overwhelming number of kills that were obtained by an unseen enemy. I've seen quotes from 70-80% of the kills were from an undetected aircraft. In such cases, there were no evasive maneuvers.
Most pilots that have experienced combat would agree that the easiest airplane to detect is one that is right in front and coming at you. Those types of encounters were the most likely to lead to a turn fight. Most of these pilots would also go to great lengths to avoid turn fights because you are much more likely to be picked off by an unseen enemy while tracking another target.
MiG
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It takes 2 to HO. If you get suckered in you are as easy to blame.
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Originally posted by CMC Airboss What do you mean by "fight realisticaly" ? We all have to assume that you are referring to the overwhelming number of kills that were obtained by an unseen enemy. I've seen quotes from 70-80% of the kills were from an undetected aircraft. In such cases, there were no evasive maneuvers.
Correct. The icons need to go away completely.
Most pilots that have experienced combat would agree that the easiest airplane to detect is one that is right in front and coming at you.
What makes you believe that? Those that do are probably dead. If it's coming at you from 12 o'clock closure rate is at it's maximum, thus least time to spot it. High 12 (against the blue sky not the ground, unless it's reflecting sunlight) at 90 degrees is best.
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If we get rid of the icons, the depth perception of the game needs to be fixed. At the moment it's terrible without icons (I've tried dueling without them on).
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Originally posted by ccvi
Correct. The icons need to go away completely.
You already have the method of doing that if you wish.
Personally, I dont want to chase dots around all nite trying to figure out if they are enemy or friendly.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
It always takes two to HO.
I disagree.
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If you ask me, a HO shot is a legitimate shot, however, one time I was lining up against Sirloin a perfect HO shot, and the manuever he pulled to avoid the shot and quickly get on my six is one of the best lessons I have learned since coming here from AWIII.
The saying "it takes two to HO" is true, and if you learn to avoid the HO'er, it usually is a short fight, resulting in the kill of the Ho'er.
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Face it, if you get kilt by a HO, your guns were pointing at the NME face and he would be foolish not to fire. He cant assume that, even tho your guns are pointing
directly at his face, you are not going to fire. If your guns
arent pointing at him, then it isnt a HO. Its a deflection shot.
HOing is like engaging in unprotected sex. Its great when
you get some, but it really sux when you catch some.
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(http://taenia.homestead.com/files/Untitled-6.gif)
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What Kweassa said. It takes two.
palef
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HO is tactic even used by the best american ace Bong he loved to HO those fancy turning zero's.
Dogfight is my last option (when i'm trouble)
Dogfight is nice but if u doing it for the dogfight get ready to be bounced in the always busy MA.
HO and cherry pickin costs less energy
This tour i'm totaly flying that way andnever had such a high K/D
So far i got me 103 planes that way while only get killed by 3 planes :D .
This might be boring but pretty realistic.
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Ease up on the guy, hes green :)
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HO's are a part of the game and you have simply got to learn to deal with them. Never fly straight and level with an enemy approaching from dead ahead. Weave from side to side, barrel roll, dive under, do ANYTHING to make it harder for him to get a good sight picture.
However, I DO sympathize. There is nothing more frustrating than to be flying along with a good deal of smash and have a newbie flying some heavily armed perk plane approach from your high 12 o'clock position, dive on you, open fire from 2.0k and get in a lucky shot on a vital part and destroy your ability to maneuver. Frustrating as all get out, especially if you know he's not any good.
Regards, Shuckins
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Didn't Chuck Yeager get shot down over France in a HO with a 190? HO's are a real and realistic part of arial combat. I try to avoid them though, very dicey in a 109.
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i used to be a HO dweeb...now im a hispano on your 6 at d750 dweeb:D
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HO's attacks have been part of Air-to-Air combat since WWI. Plus most Engagements in WWII started as Head ons.
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HO is not always an easy shot either. Theirs a fine line between an HO and a nice deflect shot. What pisses me off is when they ram you trying to HO knowing full well their ****ty, slow, ISP e-machine, wal-mart, piece of crap, setup will probably save them.
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You are so right.
We should quit, because your passion for flight sims is so much greater than ours.;)
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Originally posted by RacrX
HO is not always an easy shot either. Theirs a fine line between an HO and a nice deflect shot. What pisses me off is when they ram you trying to HO knowing full well their ****ty, slow, ISP e-machine, wal-mart, piece of crap, setup will probably save them.
I agree, MAC's are annoying. If two planes collide both should be affected, nomatter on who's FE the collision occurs.
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fly a hurri 2-c be the badest dog on the porch. :D
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HO? I have a suggestion, works every time: Duck
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Originally posted by acepilot2
I know a ton of people are going to disagree with me, but HO dweebs really need to learn how to fight. AH is not much fun anymore. Dogfights are non-existent. Everyone is an HO dweeb. I keep either getting shot down or shooting down HO dweebs. There is no fun in it. What happened to the exciting rush of dogfighting, twisting and turning around, trying to throw off you enemy? Now its all HOs. Please, go to the TA and learn how to fight realisticaly...or the fighter part of AH will collapse.
Hi! You've gotten several responses. Way to go! [/size]
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I love flying yak9T while you are in someone's 6 at D300 and thats more exciting than spraying brownings (50 cals) and hispanos at D1000
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Sometimes, when the mood hits me, I'll HO in a goon!
Sometimes I win too. :p
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hmmmm never ever expect the other guy wont HO..you'll die. Always avoid....works everytime :)....count on the otherguy to HO. Sometimes depending on the aircraft involved or situation it might be your only chance.
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Ok, I have my big stick. Where is that dead horse? Ah....there it is!
WHACK!!
WHACK!!
WHACK!!
That should take care of it...........anyone else??
:)
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Yeah! .. and ANOTHU' THING!
I want to say, that HO'ing is.. (WHACK! Hit with dead-horse stik)..
Hey? I will (or willnot) HO because.... (WHACK! WHACK!)
Owch?! (Rubbing head briskly)
OK, all-ready! I get the hint..
How 'but that La7 thing? It is ubber and should it be perk'd? (WHACK, WHACK, SCHMAK!!!)
Owch!! Put that dead-horse stick away please?
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yup its very hard pointing your nose at other planes and pressing the firing button.....
why learn to fly maneuvers then.....
all this time wasted tryin too learn how to gain some1's 6...when all i had to do was point an shoot....
agree with wildthing....takes 2 to tango...takes only 1 to fire
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Originally posted by SLO
yup its very hard pointing your nose at other planes and pressing the firing button.....
why learn to fly maneuvers then.....
all this time wasted tryin too learn how to gain some1's 6...when all i had to do was point an shoot....
agree with wildthing....takes 2 to tango...takes only 1 to fire
actually WT meant that it's not always avoidable, i.e. mutlicon engagement where that might be the only shot (or an easier one) by one of the parties involved.
if it's just you and one other con, a HO on the inital merge *is* avoidable; after the merge it might end up in a scissors where a HO shot opportunity *will* present itself (altho' not a pure HO in the sense of "jousting") and you'd be dumb not to take the shot.
HO's are there... stop whining about them. I whine about numerous things, but HO's aren't one of them, and if anything i'm not known for being a jouster.
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No shane, you're known as a cheater...what was that guys problem anyway?
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I say it does not alyws take 2 to HO..
If you are getting bounced from above..you really run out of options..and you may need to give then enemy the shortest akmount of time and plane surface to shoot at ..which would be to HO pass....
Barrell roll or what ever..BUT DONT CRY...
IF you do..then turn your prettythang around and take it in the Booty...if not ..your taking it in the face....Either way its a nasty sexual thing..lololol...
Oh and another thing...find your self a wingman...they can really help i hear..
Love
BiG"Ho" B
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Originally posted by SLO
agree with wildthing....takes 2 to tango...takes only 1 to fire
Originally posted by Shaneif it's just you and one other con, a HO on the inital merge *is* avoidable; after the merge it might end up in a scissors where a HO shot opportunity *will* present itself (altho' not a pure HO in the sense of "jousting") and you'd be dumb not to take the shot.
Actually your both stating what i meant ;)
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yes shane is correct..
and wldthing..
HAIL KING OF THE HILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ALL HAIL KING WILDTHING!!!!!!!BOW down you lowly scum...
Wildthing..if needed i will bring supplies or escort or bait for you till next KOTH...
HAIL Wild Thing....
hehehe
Salute
BiGB
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Originally posted by Steve
No shane, you're known as a cheater...what was that guys problem anyway?
Probably what most people's problems are concerning Shane, he shot them down. Ever notice those that whine about Shane are the ones he shoots down on a regular basis? Of course I don't have that problem :D
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Probably what most people's problems are concerning Shane, he shot them down. Ever notice those that whine about Shane are the ones he shoots down on a regular basis?
LOL Exactly..
Wait for the call bgb, wait for the call ;)
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Well, if I remember right, Shane had just shot the guy down.
Hmmmm.
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Get over it - it takes two to HO.
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yes your Hiness.....
is that spelled right..?,,lolol
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"If you are getting bounced from above..you really run out of options..and you may need to give then enemy the shortest akmount of time and plane surface to shoot at ..which would be to HO pass.... " - by BGBMAW
If you are referring to the typical 'turn and face the enemy' type of aggressive defensive against BnZ, that ain't no HO - You turn towards their direction of the Boom sequence, thus, giving the attacker a very high closure rate and steep angle which makes it very difficult to hit anything. Typically the defending plane passes under the attacker - it's a front quarter shot for the attacker, not a HO.
Now, when a plane turns into the Boom sequence, and noses up and meets the attack with guns blazing, that's HO, and it is avoidable.
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BTW, the initial stages of a HO never takes two. Usually it takes the one looking desperatelly for the HO and the other trying to evade it or being forced to acept it. Sometimes they both are looking for the HO, but this is only the typical duel between spits :p