Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on April 15, 2003, 02:12:12 PM
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http://ron.keller.name/Blessed/RollCall.html
Some of the KIA from this war were very young, 18 & 19. Suprised to see a few female KIA also.
Not sure where these folks are now, but their loyalty to duty will be remembered.
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Very nice post sir. I salute you on you're thoughtfulness.
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22,380 signatures in the prayerbook so far. Why not leave a message of appreciation for their sacrifice?
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So may are so young... God Bless Them, God Bless America!
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thanks
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Mosy likley the gov will not give up any info like that. Try sending a letter or calling the local (to the person, not you) newspaper or radioo station. The might help.
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Nice to know that there are those who realize the costs and honor those who paid the ultimate price.
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At least they died for good cause !
(http://www.consrv.ca.gov/DOG/photo_gallery/sucker_rod/01_b.jpg)
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Take that crap down hristo... Its unbelivably offensive and hateful.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Take that crap down hristo... Its unbelivably offensive and hateful.
No Grun, its okay, they and thousands like them died so he has the freedom to make an bellybutton of himself.
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(http://jakarta.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/ali_in_hospital.jpg)
Dear Ali,
We regret to inform you that due to certain higher interests your family is now dead. Your arms are removed and we truly regret it.
It was a wise move to expose yourself to media. Now we will pay you for artificial arms, and you will be notified in time. Please note that we don't encourage such behavior generally.
President Bush has expressed his willingness to shake your hand, but there are still some technical difficulties. We'll stay in touch with you.
Better luck in next life !
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Can you explain it to the thousands that Hussein killed during his reign? Hmm?
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How easily Hristo forgets it is same USA army that helped the croatian forces carry out a 1995 summer offensive to retake the last 1/3 of out territory occupied by serb armies and death squads, the same army that bombed the serbs besiging and shelling innocent civilians in sarajevo, the same army that bombed milosevic when he started his genocidal patterns again in kosovo.
The funny thing about what Hristo is saying is that we should never stand up to murderous tyrants and dictators because innocent people could get hurt in a war against the dictator. This is funny because Hristo and I are from Croatia, a country that put up a 5 year fight against Slobodan Milisevic and his genocidal gangesters where some 200,000 people died in Croatia and Bosnia. Far fewer people could have died if those evil croats and bosnians simply let the gentle serbian armored columns and death squads do their conquering in peace instead of facing resiastance - yes far fewer would have died and things would be better now for sure under the gentle hand of milosevic and his gang of executioners.
You make me ashamed to be be a croatian Hristo.... You ungreatful piece of eurotrash.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
How easily Hristo forgets it is same USA army that helped the croatian forces carry out a 1995 summer offensive to retake the last 1/3 of out territory occupied by serb armies and death squads, the same army that bombed the serbs besiging and shelling innocent civilians in sarajevo, the same army that bombed milosevic when he started his genocidal patterns again in kosovo.
The funny thing about what Hristo is saying is that we should never stand up to murderous tyrants and dictators because innocent people could get hurt in a war against the dictator. This is funny because Hristo and I are from Croatia, a country that put up a 5 year fight against Slobodan Milisevic and his genocidal gangesters where some 200,000 people died in Croatia and Bosnia. Far fewer people could have died if those evil croats and bosnians simply let the gentle serbian armored columns and death squads do their conquering in peace instead of facing resiastance - yes far fewer would have died and things would be better now for sure under the gentle hand of milosevic and his gang of executioners.
You make me ashamed to be be a croatian Hristo.... You ungreatful piece of eurotrash.
You, my friend, have turned tails in that fight. Others stayed and fought back. So please, don't patronize about it.
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So what? I was far too young and out of the country two years before the war, hardly turning tails... Frankly my family who was there did enough and we lost a few people in vukovar and vinkovci where i lived and house was blown up and my mother nearly killed.
Now understand please your pathetic effort to shame me into silence wont work, it added your earlier shamelss and tasteless behavior in this thread speaks for itself - my words merlely frame it into wider context.
You are a sad man Hristo.. So full of hate for america and for no reason... If it wasnt for america the war would be going fpr more years on and thousands more would be dead, I know it, you know it and all those eurotrash UN types know it too.
Simply pathetic! You ghladly welcomed "US agression" and bombing when it was liberating our country but now you show your true colors.. You dont care that 25,000,000 million Iraqis will have a better life in the future becuse we took out Hussein and his familiy, you simply pick little picture of unfortunate and accidental human suffering and bash the USA for being evil..
If nothing else answer this:
Was the USA evio when we were bombing serbian artillery positions around Sarajevo?
and
Was the USA evil when we were bombing serb death squads in kosovo?
BTW I'm assuming yiu are not a racist and did not enjoy seeing the "turks" getting sloughtered.
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Aren't you still obliged to serve in Croatian army ? You had plenty of time in 1990s.
If you chose not to, fine, but at least have some respect for ones who did. Don't patronize to us who were there with arms in hands in early 1990s. We may have a better reason for not liking wars.
You are falling into a dogma that anti-Bush is anti-American.
And if you realy like parallels, I'll give you one. US behavior reminds me of Serb behavior, not the other way around.
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Right the usa is setting up death camps and razing vukovar and
executing all patients in the hospital, then the USA is going to kill 8,000 civilans in srebrenica.
Dont you realize how outrageous your cxomparsion is?
And tell me:
Was the USA evil when we bombed serbian positions around srajevo.
Was the USA evil when we bombed serbian death squads in Kosovo.
Was the usa evil in helping us plan and carry out the 1995 offensive?
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Hristo's.. just a dumb phuck.
lesh mojue jouie hristo
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Right the usa is setting up death camps and razing vukovar and
executing all patients in the hospital, then the USA is going to kill 8,000 civilans in srebrenica.
Dont you realize how outrageous your cxomparsion is?
And tell me:
Was the USA evil when we bombed serbian positions around srajevo.
Was the USA evil when we bombed serbian death squads in Kosovo.
Was the usa evil in helping us plan and carry out the 1995 offensive?
US did some good things. No doubt about it.
Aggression on Iraq is not one of them, though. Only good thing it brought was removal of a dictator.
I didn't know you bombed Serbian positions, Grunherz. I thought you were just an armchair general.
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By we I mean Americans. By us I mean Croatians. Dont be smart bellybutton you know what I was saying.
Only good thing it brought was removal of a dictator.
You make that seem so trivial - the evil dictator was the problem for everyone. Its like saying all a pre ww2 attack on germany would have done was to remove a dictator.
Why isnt the iraq war a good thing?
Arent some 25,000,000 people now free from one of the most the most brutal dictarorships of all time? Arent they free from a ruler who put his needs for wmd ahead of the lives of 1,000,000 of his citizens who starved or died due to UN sanctions? Arent thet free from a ruler who put his palaces ahead of food for his people? Arent they free from a ruler who spend UN oil for FOOD money on his army?
Tell me Hristo is the average iraqi better off under saddam hussein (the way ant it to be) or better off working to build democracy and freedom for himself and his children for the future (the way i want it to be)?
And how is this any different then when clinto attacked kosovo without UN approval and basically finished milisevic as a dictators.
Oh yea maybe you dont really care thats its the same, you only hate Bush no matter what he does..
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The media goal of this war shifted very easily.
Remember how it started ? UN resolution, WMDs here, WMDs there. Now that no WMDs are found, it is oppressed people liberated all of the sudden.
However, the real agenda was always the same. Oil.
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Originally posted by Hristo
The media goal of this war shifted very easily.
Remember how it started ? UN resolution, WMDs here, WMDs there. Now that no WMDs are found, it is oppressed people liberated all of the sudden.
However, the real agenda was always the same. Oil.
Actually, it never changed at all.
The entire premise of the war was failure to comply with 1441.
Liberation is just a great side effect, and makes far better news.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Actually, it never changed at all.
The entire premise of the war was failure to comply with 1441.
Liberation is just a great side effect, and makes far better news.
That's fine.
Now, after the job is done, it might be in order to do a few decent things - appologize to families of killed civilians and get out of there. Leave Iraq to its people.
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Originally posted by Hristo
That's fine.
Now, after the job is done, it might be in order to do a few decent things - appologize to families of killed civilians and get out of there. Leave Iraq to its people.
hmm - you think we are/will do otherwise?
b.i.o.y.a
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Originally posted by Hristo
That's fine.
Now, after the job is done, it might be in order to do a few decent things - appologize to families of killed civilians and get out of there. Leave Iraq to its people.
actually, we've done one, and as soon as a gov't is established, we'll do the other.
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Too bad there isn't a secular alternative to the prayerbook.
I'll think of them, and their families. Best a non theist can do, given the absence of an alternative on the site.
to those who risk their lives for a good cause.
I salute the soldiers for fighting valiantly, and for dying for their country. However, questions still are unanswered about the purpose of the war - it was not to liberate Iraq, but to rid it of WMDs. If none are found, the war must be said to have been an illegitimate one.
While I find Hristo's posts a bit too strong in expression, the message is still one worth noticing; we celebrate and honour the dead coalition soldiers, but it is also worth noticing the huge impact this war has had on Iraqis - civilians and those forced to fight. Coalition losses are small compared to that of the Iraqi military and civilian population. I suspect at least a minority of Iraqi soldiers had the choice between fighting the Americans or getting a bullet in the back of their heads. So let us NOT forget the Iraqi people, even though it is really easy to do so.
In the end though, even if 'war for oil' or other seedy details is true, the fact remains that Saddam is gone and Iraq has a chance for democracy. Despite hidden agendas, despite loss of civilian life, there may very well be a democracy in Iraq in a few years. Terrible as the price has been for the Iraqi people themselves, in the long run it is worth it I think. And Saddam would within a year have killed more of his own than were killed during the war.
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Sometimes the Onion's humor can hit pretty close to the truth...
first reported in 'The Onion'[/b]
BAGHDAD, IRAQ—Reflecting on his time as Iraq's president in a pre-taped television address, Saddam Hussein expressed pride Tuesday that, despite the success of the U.S. invasion and the civilian casualties it has inflicted, he still has killed far more Iraqis than President Bush.
"George Bush believes he is so powerful, so strong," Saddam said. "But even with all of his bombs and missiles and Marines, he has not even come close to killing as many Iraqis as I did."
While estimates of the number of Iraqi civilians killed by the U.S. ranges from 500 all the way to 10,000, Saddam and his associates are believed to have murdered somewhere between 100,000 and 250,000 civilians since 1968.
"The international press counts off on their fingers every Iraqi that dies by Bush's missiles," Saddam said. "The papers make a big story of it when six Iraqi civilians are killed by American GIs near Basra, or when 15 Iraqi civilians are killed in air strikes on Baghdad. What paltry death tolls. I cannot even begin to add up how many died in Basra upon my orders, how many in Baghdad I killed with my own gun."
Throughout his presidency, Saddam said he routinely had political opponents arrested and put to death without trial, sometimes along with their entire families. He also summarily executed countless citizens for crimes as minor as petty theft and "monopolizing rationed goods."
"The race between myself and Bush is not even close," Saddam said. "I easily killed 100 times more men than Bush, not to mention women and children. That's right—women and children."
In his suppression of the Shiite Muslims alone, Saddam said he can lay claim to thousands more Iraqi kills than Bush.
"My officers did more damage rounding up students at [the Shiite Muslim theological institution] al-Hawza al-'Ilmiya in al-Najaf than the entire American 3rd Infantry did roaring through all of southern Iraq in their billion-dollar tanks," Saddam said. "And my men did not put down their guns just because someone asked for mercy. They finished the job like soldiers. They did not serve food to their enemies as if they were women at a picnic."
Saddam boasted that the 1988 Anfal campaign against the Iraqi Kurds added another 50,000 to his tally.
"In Anfal, we rounded up the battle-age men and put them in front of firing squads," Saddam said. "Even today, when you travel through rural Kurdistan, you notice the high proportion of women. That is not because of the U.S. Army. That is not because of the 101st Airborne Division. It is because of me—Saddam Hussein, President of Iraq, the Glorious Leader, the Anointed One, Direct Descendant of the Prophet, Great Uncle to the People."
In his campaigns against the Kurds, Saddam crushed unrest with chemical-weapons strikes against civilian populations—a tactic he said Bush "would never have the nerve to do."
"I remember the day my cousin [Commander of Southern Forces] Ali [Hassan al-Majid] dropped chemical weapons on the town of Halabja," said Saddam, referring to the March 1988 slaughter of 5,000 Kurds. "That is how he got his nickname, 'Chemical Ali.' Much better nickname than 'Dubya,' wouldn't you say?"
"The total number of Kurds we killed could be as high as 110,000, and that is not just an idle boast," Saddam said. "The United Nations Sub-Committee on Human Rights has been keeping extensive records of my actions for years."
In fairness to Bush, Saddam conceded that he has had a significant head start killing Iraqis, beginning his political career in the late '60s as a torturer for the Ba'ath party.
"Back in 1969, I turned the execution of 14 alleged anti-government plotters into a major public event, hanging them in a town square and leaving their bodies on display," Saddam said. "Already everyone knew my name, and this was still a good 10 years before I would carry out the wave of executions that signaled my rise to power."
In addition to killings, Saddam said he bests Bush in the torture department.
"There is a certain type of torture, which is called al-Khaygania—so named in honor of its creator, former security director al-Khaygani—in which the victim is handcuffed and suspended on a piece of wood between two chairs like a chicken," Saddam said. "Then, we attach an electric wire to the man's noodle and toes. Can you see Bush doing this? Can you see Bush smashing a man's skull with a brick? Can you see him calling for the deaths of his own family members? Pah, he is too weak."
Saddam closed with harsh words for his American rival.
"I recently heard a critic of President Bush say he is a dictator," Saddam said. "That made me laugh. George Bush, a dictator! My sons Uday and Qusay showed more viciousness at 10 years of age."
"Bush has a long way to go before he can match me," Saddam added. "My hands are red with the blood of the innocent. His are merely a light pink."
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Update on story from yesterday, turns out this boy doesn't want sympathy (As Hristo has intentional stirred sympathy up) and is alittle disappointed in the Media:
"He does not want sympathy. Speaking with fluent indignation, in his grimy ward in Chewader hospital, he demanded to know why numerous promises that he would be treated in the West had not been kept.
[/i]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/15/wali15.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/15/ixnewstop.html
Well, he's being transferred as we speak to a Western hospital.
Hristo should be ashamed of himself for not only insulting families of those who lost loved ones, but insulting this boy himself.
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Hiristo,
Maybe it was about oil. I really don't care. I do care when someone (you) disrespect the dead. Any man that has ever served will tell you that they love thier country, for the most part, but they are fighting for the man on thier left or right. Have you ever cared enough for someone that you would die for them?
America is a warrior society, as long as we feel the fight is a just one we will jump in. You can keep poking if you like, just keep in the back of your little mind that you might be next.
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Can I be next too Concho?
Ever since the bloody Christians came and turned VIkings into uneducated stupid peasants to be opressed by even more mindless kings and queens, this country has gotten soft.
Now it is PC. Now it is party instead of plunder. Love instead of looting. Raves instead of rapes. And we haven't had any state-sponsored killing of French people/invasions of France in a long time.
Perhaps if the US invaded, we'd get back to our roots and stop being such sissies.
So in the interest of liberating us from our current sissiness, can the US please invade?
I'm sure I can find a gun or broadsword somewhere.
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Originally posted by StSanta
And we haven't had any state-sponsored killing of French people/invasions of France in a long time.
I've spotted a Danese car on the road yesterday ... Should have done something ...
Perhaps was it a scout :D
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Wow, I have never posted in this forum and I now know why. Hristo you are a POS, having served for my country and knowing what it is about I can clearly say you are truly an *******. People like you don't deserve the freedoms that have been granted to you by others that have fought/died for it. Total disgrace to others in here that have to read your dribble.
I am sorry they put our oil wells under their land, and if you think this was about oil then you are truly as blind as your vision has shown us in here. As far as Kosovo goes I worked for the Pentagon out of Langley AFB for the Air Force Center for Knowledge Sharing on that operation and whatever you want to know I can tell you. Just pisses me off to see this crap in here.
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Originally posted by Hristo
At least they died for good cause !
(http://www.consrv.ca.gov/DOG/photo_gallery/sucker_rod/01_b.jpg)
What an idiot.
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sad they died
sad the oil thing can have enough validity to make you angry.
sad day all around for the country.
great day for bush,
odd that?
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get out of there. Leave Iraq to its people.
fool. what do you think we're trying to do?
the problem is that the Iraqi people want us to stay and help them out.. I keep hearing "Potect our business, museums, etc.. fix our power and water.. etc.. give us more food"
Hristo you cross the line.. even Boroda has more sense than that.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
sad they died
sad the oil thing can have enough validity to make you angry.
sad day all around for the country.
great day for bush,
odd that?
sad that you can actually believe "the oil thing" has validity.
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Skuzzy, hasn't this crosed the line yet??? Hristo is really offensive in his posting. :mad:
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The more I think of it, it is a good thing that Saddam was overthrown. Yes, I am aware he was killing his own, oppressing his people so much that they rather stood and watched an aggression than fought back. He got what he deserved. In the long run, the invasion allowed Iraqis (a kind of) freedom.
But I don't buy any of this glorious hero crap. The dead ones knew what could happen to them when they joined the army. They put themselves in hands of a leader who, I am certain, cares little for human life. This whole thing could have gotten very wrong, regarding casualties. Maybe then you'd learn more about GWB. So far only civilians who died of "collateral damage" can attest to it.
The liberation of Iraqis of their regime is just a side effect, I'm afraid. US did good things in Kosovo. Does this mean any military action is justified ? US also did a lot of bad things in the past. Chile, Nicaragua, Vietnam, to name a few.
I served my army as well. Sticking to your buddies has absolutely nothing to do with right or wrong. More like heard psychology and survival. Concho, you seem easy to threaten people to be next. Do you ever wonder why someone took up passenger planes and flew them into your buildings ? Could it have something to do with your (and your country) attitude ?
So far about a hundred of US soldiers died. Several thousand Iraqis. I have yet to see someone start a thread here about them.
You can whine about me crossing the line here. But can any of you clearly state why US invaded Iraq, without second thoughts ?
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Originally posted by Hristo
You can whine about me crossing the line here. But can any of you clearly state why US invaded Iraq, without second thoughts ?
violation of UN resolutions.
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Originally posted by Martlet
violation of UN resolutions.
No seconds thoughts ? really ?
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Originally posted by Hristo
No seconds thoughts ? really ?
Not a one.
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Hristo,
Thats not in a good taste anymore.. so try to drop it.
You should know me.
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I am glad they did, I am glad they liberated Iraq. I am glad they stopped a damn madman from controlling a country that was obviously a menace to the middle east. I honestly hope HT puts a ban on you.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2954333.stm
First surgery for young Ali
Ali faces a series of operations to treat his severe burns
The plastic surgeon treating injured Iraqi orphan Ali Ismail Abbas says the 12-year-old is recovering well after his first round of treatment.
The boy lost both his arms and suffered serious burns to his upper body after his home was bombed during the coalition forces' attack on Baghdad.
Both his parents were killed in the strike, along with other relatives, and it was feared Ali could die from his injuries.
After an international appeal for help, Ali was airlifted to Kuwait where Dr Imad al-Najjadah performed the life-saving operation lasting 95 minutes on Wednesday.
Septicaemia-infected tissue was cut away from his burn wounds and temporary layer of human skin, from the clinic's skin bank, was laid across his burns to form a temporary cover.
Dr Najjadah, of the Saud A Albabtain Centre for Burns and Plastic Surgery, said the boy was doing well and recovering.
"He's awake and we're changing his dressing," he said.
Further surgery
He added he hoped to perform a graft using Ali's own skin from uninjured areas such as his back on Sunday or Monday.
"At the centre for burns we receive worse cases. We have good success with people who are 80 or 90% burnt. Ali has around 35% burns," he said.
He's recovering. He will be okay
Dr Imad al-Najjadah
He said it could be three weeks or more before measurements are taken to provide Ali with artificial limbs.
Ali's picture has been splashed across newspapers around the world and even UK Prime Minister Tony Blair was moved to comment on his plight.
Dr Najjadah said Ali had made progress within the first few hours of arriving in the care of the Kuwaitis.
"He is much better this morning than when he arrived," he said.
"He was pleased to see his uncle by his bedside and has even started to smile."
BBC News Online's Jonathan Duffy said the severity of Ali's burns, covering 35% of his body, may actually have helped him survive this far.
Because they are "full thickness" burns that penetrated deep into the flesh, his nerve endings in that part of the body have been severed.
Other young victims
The centre where Ali is being cared is as good - if not better - as those in many Western countries.
Opened in 1992 at Kuwait City's Ibn Sina hospital, it has 70 beds, making it the biggest burns and plastic surgery centre in the whole of the Middle East and Europe, Dr Najjadah told BBC News Online.
While Ali's injuries have shocked many around the world, the doctor says this is by no means the worst he has dealt with.
"Thirty-five per cent burns is nothing compared to what we sometimes see here - 80% or 90% burns. But even those patients can recover."
Before Ali's arrival, the centre had already taken in five Iraqi children whose injuries from the war were so severe they had to be evacuated from their home country.
One of those is four-year-old Farah Arkan al-Jebory, who suffered serious shrapnel wounds when her father's car was destroyed in another Baghdad bomb attack.
Shrapnel had severed the muscle in her right forearm, although, fortunately, it did not cut the nerves.
She also suffered multiple injuries to the abdomen in the blast, which killed a cousin of hers.
Doctors have been able to repair the damaged muscle and Farah is making a good recovery, says Dr Najjadah.
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Yep those evil war supporting coalition countries just dont a damn about iraqi people....
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Originally posted by Hristo
But I don't buy any of this glorious hero crap. The dead ones knew what could happen to them when they joined the army. They put themselves in hands of a leader who, I am certain, cares little for human life. This whole thing could have gotten very wrong, regarding casualties. Maybe then you'd learn more about GWB. So far only civilians who died of "collateral damage" can attest to it.
Any person that volunteers for service duty,then puts their lives on the line for people other than their own, that they've never met (Iraqi people) with the goal to liberate them, and do it as efficiently as possible as to NOT harm the civilian population (a record for any war of least number of civilian casualties for a war of this scale) are HERO'S in my book. Bear in mind the ones up front, the point men, the Marines, were kids that enlisted after 9/11.
Awaken a sleeping Giant? Indeed, and bad news if you're a border-line terrorist(Ba'ath party) or a terrorist.
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Seems to me if the Iraqi army had wanted to "protect" the citizens, they would have put themselves between the coalition forces and the civilians.
Instead, they put the civilians in harm's way by hiding amongst them.
The coalition way would have been to either evacuate the civilians (kinda hard to do in this case, where are you gonna go?), or positioned their own forces between the attackers and the noncombatants.
I see the civilian casualties as being as much the fault of the Iraqi military strategy, and Hussein's desire to stay in power no matter what it cost in lives of his countrymen, as the coalition's fault.
I don't like the civilian casualties, but they could have been easily avoided and prevented with the simple act of soldiers doing what they are supposed to do, protect their land. Hiding behind your populace and using them as human shields is not the act of a warrior, it is the act of a coward.
I sincerely hope that child recovers, both mentally and physically.
I also hope that the Iraqi people choose wisely when they form their government.
Sadly, what I honestly think will happen is more of the same, just a different ruler this time. That part of the world is too caught up in what tribe or sect they belong to to ever experience true freedom and peace. They will end up killing themselves, some living like subhumans again, but it will all be the US's fault. Like always.
Everything I have ever read about Islamic religion stresses peace and compassion for their fellow man.
When will we see them practicing that peaceful, caring religion? All I have ever seen is a bunch of people shouting and brandishing weapons, shouting hateful slogans, and blaming someone else for their troubles.