Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mini D on April 15, 2003, 05:18:30 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84218,00.html
The cops in the 1991 should have gone to jail. I never agreed with the decision in that case.
But... seems Rodney has been living on borrowed time since then. He really is the gift that keeps on giving. I wonder if they could do a reality TV show where camera crews followed him around all day?
MiniD
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That man is a waste of protoplasm... figures a damn crack head makes out like a bandit after his actions caused 55 deaths and $1 billion in property damage...
$ .03 = Cost of a .22 calibre bullet
You determine the placement...
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Can't we all just get along?
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the liberals should stop protecting this guy and let Darwin have him.....
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figures a damn crack head makes out like a bandit after his actions caused 55 deaths and $1 billion in property damage...
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actually it was the rioters who caused the damage.
or you could blame it on the actions of the cops and courts if you are looking to blame someone else for the rioters actions.
or you could even blame the media for making the issue out to be a race issue instead of a class issue. if rodney had been a rich lawyer or athlete (whatever) in a nice suit and a benz he would not likely have been treated the way he was. had he been a white guy from a simular background as rodney it could have played out much the same, only you wouldn't have activists looking to help with his legal fee's.
dumb-ass rodney is a ways down the list on who takes blame for the rioters damage.
it's obviose the man is a perpetual looser who is going to screw his life up no matter what happens. but the cops where the true criminals in his 'big case'.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Can't we all just get along?
with a criminal? why?
This booger has a lifetime "Get out of jail" card :(
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
... but the cops where the true criminals in his 'big case'.
Spoken like a true liberal...
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If you blame Rodney for the looting in the US, who do you blame for the looting in Iraq?
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Originally posted by ZOSO
If you blame Rodney for the looting in the US, who do you blame for the looting in Iraq?
Saddam?
Wait, is this a trick question?
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Spoken like a true liberal...
I wouldn't consider myself a liberal and I agree with him. Rodney was a dip**** drunk driver... the cops are the ones that turned into violent criminals.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
I wouldn't consider myself a liberal and I agree with him. Rodney was a dip**** drunk driver... the cops are the ones that turned into violent criminals.
MiniD
Just my opinion, but he got what he deserved.
People are always screaming about the police. Sometimes it's justified, usually it's not.
If the cops tell you to stop, kneel down, put your hands up, or any combination of the previous, and you fail to do so, they should just shoot you.
Cops get no respect.
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They'd get a whole lot more respect if that situation had been handled differently. It set the image of police officers back to the point that they still haven't recovered.
Rodney was an ass, as are most ****faced people. Cops should be adept at handling that. If they have to get rough, then so be it. But, somewhere during that 5 minute beating, I believe they crossed the line. Their behavior was inexcusable.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
They'd get a whole lot more respect if that situation had been handled differently. It set the image of police officers back to the point that they still haven't recovered.
Rodney was an ass, as are most ****faced people. Cops should be adept at handling that. If they have to get rough, then so be it. But, somewhere during that 5 minute beating, I believe they crossed the line. Their behavior was inexcusable.
MiniD
I agree
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I aggree that blaming the guy that got tuned on is pretty much the hight of sillyness. Interesting that he has some more pcp convictions since then.
Was there a riot when he beat up his girl friend..
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Must be a slow news day.
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Originally posted by ZOSO
If you blame Rodney for the looting in the US, who do you blame for the looting in Iraq?
Sadaam
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Originally posted by Martlet
Just my opinion, but he got what he deserved.
People are always screaming about the police. Sometimes it's justified, usually it's not.
If the cops tell you to stop, kneel down, put your hands up, or any combination of the previous, and you fail to do so, they should just shoot you.
Cops get no respect.
ditto Martlet!
I personally think Rodney King deserved each and every blow he received during his 5 minutes of video fame. His own selfish actions caused a situation between a violent drug addict (King) and police officers trying to stop a drug induced rampage to incite riots amongst a part of town that was close to a war zone at its best. I have no problem with rioters burning down there own homes and infrastructure, but I do have a problem with worthless trash killing uninvolved people oweing to their skin color. True justice would have seen a spectre gunship lay waste to the whole lot of frigging rioters and looters.
Ohh, in case you liberal pansies think that stopping and subdueing a drug crazed lunatic is a simple matter, try it sometime. I have, and still bare the scars to prove it. Like Martlet said, cops get no respect. Plain and simple!
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Looks like Rodney is due for another bellybutton whuppin.
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Roidney Kling has a purty mouth.
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Mietla's avatar RULES!.
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Oh yeah,
I'm sposed to say something about the topic.
King was under the influence of lots of drugs and alcohol.
It looks real nice when he's all sober and urging people to "just get along."
The beatdown was fully justified. Rodney took a taser and still fought like a wild man.
Long ago, I was busted by NYC cops when in wildman mode. Broke one's nose and got more in return.
It doesn't matter if you are black or white. They will beat you down just the same if you act like a wild man. Equal opportunity.
I have a scar on my chin from getting slammed into a wall when handcuffed, but I still support the cops that beat down King.
Won a suit against the city though :)
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angel dust is a bit*h. no matter how hard you hit them they still keep coming.
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The Rodney King beating didn't cause the LA riots. Even if Rodney hadn't have been beaten up, we still would have ultimately had the LA riots. South Central was a tinderbox just waiting for something to set it off. The underlying problems in that neighborhood ran a lot deeper than one thug getting beat down to excess by the LAPD.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
The Rodney King beating didn't cause the LA riots. Even if Rodney hadn't have been beaten up, we still would have ultimately had the LA riots. South Central was a tinderbox just waiting for something to set it off. The underlying problems in that neighborhood ran a lot deeper than one thug getting beat down to excess by the LAPD.
J_A_B
BULLtoejam.
Remember Watts '68?
King was a catalyst. The power of video caused the riots.
Just like al-Jazeera inflames opinion on the Arab street by reemphasizing civilian casualty horrors.
A picture is worth a thousand words. A video, a million.
William Randolph Hearst's "Yellow Journalism" is coming back to bite us in the as$.
ON TO SYRIA!
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they were just waiting for an excuse to loot. The iraqui's are pleasant compared to our ghetto dwellers.
lazs
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Nothing justified that beating. I can't believe you think it was deserved.
And then a sham of a legal system let the cops off with a 'it's A-ok, but don't do it again' admonishment.
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Dowding - seeing as you werent there, and neither was I - we can only speculate.
It really boils down to two points of view:
1.) King was a raving lunatic hopped up on some pretty nasty narcotics who required serious force to subdue. Officers tend to be pretty defensive when attacked.
2.) King was the victim of high tensions in the city and the police took extreme, unneeded measures to subdue him.
I happen to agree with the former considering the circumstances leading up to the 30 seconds of tape that the major networks aired in hopes of showing LA cops as bigoted Gestapo officers.
What would King have done with an 18 wheel semi-truck, speeding down city streets in the middle of the night under the influence of dust? How many (liberal key phrase) innocent bystanders (heh) would have been run over as a result of his insanity?
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Whooo eeeee!
The white sheets are back from the cleaners I see.
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Whoooo eeee!!
wheres mine?
lol
:D
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:rolleyes:
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Heh, try to justify that beating all you will.
When a person or persons is given a position of power and authority, I expect them to live up to the responsibility that comes with it.
Police, by virtue of the profession, must be better than common thugs, violent drug addicts and whatnot.
They are expected to be trained to handle violent people and have the mental discipline to use what force is necessary to subdue a violent person.
Now, 4 guys smashing on for five minutes on a guy lying down is, in my book, excessive. They could have used a tenth of the force they used to subdue the dude.
He might have called them names, kicked, spat and hit at them. Since police officers deal, on a regular basis, with the scum of society, they are supposed to be trained on how to deal with such individuals. They are also expected to have mental discipline enough not to fall down to the levels of common street thugs.
Anyone arguing that they did not use excessive force either hasn't seen the video or has amnesia. Look at one thing and one thing only; could they have used substantially less force to subdue the man? The answer is a resounding 'yes'. That they didn't may have many reasons, including him spiting/resisting them, but the fact of the matter is that they lost self control and in turn did something illegal themselves, and in doing so violated the trust and authority put in them by the general population.
And good cops get all kind of crap based on their behavior. It's sad when a whole community is judged by the actions of a few rotten apples, but that always happens with some groups. If, however, the group doesn't distance itself from the bad apples or even try to defend their actions well then they are considered equal to 'em.
The cops I've met here have been good cops, with only one exception. There are thse who are in it for the power trip, bt that is a very small minority. They don't get enough respect, that is very true - but that doesn't in any way justify the excess of violence comitted against that no good idiot moron ****e, 3.8 million dollars and he cannot pull his shie together - truly pathetic. Still, the violence was excessive no matter how I feel about King.
Btw; this isn't a reps vs dems issue. I am sure such labelling help you to justify ignoring the other guys argument, but this has nothing to do with it. Especially as us Europeans aren't reps or dems.
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I think Mr. King deserved to get his bellybutton kicked, and I hope they kick his bellybutton again.......... I also think those two guys that drug that poor man to his death in Jaspar Tx, deserved to be drug to death themselves.......... Do I still think I have white sheets Midnight?
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BEVO - anyone who turns this into a race issue isnt interested in discussing the actual occurance.
BTW - awesome avatar. :D
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Whooo eeeee!
The white sheets are back from the cleaners I see.
I am enjoying the rantings of the country bumpkin sociologists.
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saur, I agree.
oh and thanks!:D
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Whooo eeeee!
The white sheets are back from the cleaners I see.
Yes how dare we suggest that a black man should be punished for his crimes.
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I heard that the rioters are so ashamed of rodney that they are returning looted goods today.
lazs
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IIRC, the beating Rodney King took was unjustified. He was guilty of failure to stop, speeding, reckless driving. Was he under the influence of alcohol?
He was not under angel dust, that was a statement made by one of the police officers in his defense of his justifying the beating. From what I remember, they didn't look like they were trying to subdue him but beat the living daylights out of him.
Imagine you're told to stay still all the while you're being painfully beaten. Hard to keep from writhing in pain. Yet they still beat away.
Under the influence of angel dust? If one is under the influence of that powerful animal (horse) tranquilizer, they are impervious to pain. No beating, even those that result in broken bones would stop the one under influence. Notice when he was finally face down, they still were beating on him. One of the cops was even targeting the back of his knees with repeated strikes...after he was face down. The resulting pain (survival instinct) was to keep moving.
The "Angel Dust" was a legal defensive ploy.
If the cops were in the right, why were their reports of the incident fabricated? Seems they knew from the outset it was wrong to beat someone to a pulp.
What if that were you or a family member being beaten? Hard to stay still under constant beatings. Pain has a way all its own. Would you still be so understanding?
Bottom line, the cops didn't do the right thing in that case.
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There was no excuse what so ever of that beating Brian (IIRC his name, the truck driver). that was attempted homicide, maybe attempted murder. I don't know how long those that threw objects at his head had the notion of "getting back" at someone. They were throwing at his head which surprisingly he didn't die from.
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In both these instances, the perpetrators doing the acts were guilty IMHO. If I was an eyewitness to the Rodney beating, I would have trestified against the cops.
If I were in the LA area and seeing that lethal force being used against another individual (like what happened against the truck driver) and no police around to keep order, I would have shot at those trying to kill another (if my verbal warning wasn't heeded)....regardless of the skin color of those involved.
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Martlet,
Just noticed your sig.
"Being ignored by: Straffo, miko2d, Zembla"
If you get 5 to ignore you, do you become an ace?
:D
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Martlet,
Just noticed your sig.
"Being ignored by: Straffo, miko2d, Zembla"
If you get 5 to ignore you, do you become an ace?
:D
Nah, you probably get banned. ;)
Unless, of course, you realize that it's only the morons that ignore me. I'm still waiting for Blitz and Baroda.
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When a dude is on the ground, curled up like a fetus, he is no longer a threat. His beating went on long past that point.
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I wouldn't beat him, I wouldn't want him bleeding on me. I wouldn't want to touch him. What if he got aids? If I was a cop there, the one that makes him bleed is the one who has to cuff him and book him. butter that.
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There is a guy who drives around our condo development that is going to get Rodney'd pretty soon if he does cease and desist.
He drives like a lunatic and endangers everyone living there by being an idiot behind the wheel. He was asked to slow down once by an old man who lives a few doors down from me. He slammed his brakes and the wife said it looked as if he was going to fight the old guy. When my wife ran in and told me about it I ran out to confront this little salamander, but he took off before I could get to the car. If he comes close to hitting my family or me I'll Rodney him and post a pic for all to see.
The night Rodney King got beaten he nearly killed a bunch of people in the chase you DIDN'T see in the video. He was drunk and on crack. He resisted arrest.
He deserved an bellybutton whooping.
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Curval - stop ruining this thread with FACTS!!!!
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Its called Karma.. he was a pile of **** and needed a good beating.
But the cops should have controlled themselves better, they should not do those things, Rodney just got unlucky and pissed off the wrong cops, but that does not make him any less of a scum bag..
Maybe the cops could have handled it better, hell just by beating the camera man and taking the tape even!! :D
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Originally posted by osage
Oh yeah,
I'm sposed to say something about the topic.
King was under the influence of lots of drugs and alcohol.
It looks real nice when he's all sober and urging people to "just get along."
The beatdown was fully justified. Rodney took a taser and still fought like a wild man.
Long ago, I was busted by NYC cops when in wildman mode. Broke one's nose and got more in return.
It doesn't matter if you are black or white. They will beat you down just the same if you act like a wild man. Equal opportunity.
I have a scar on my chin from getting slammed into a wall when handcuffed, but I still support the cops that beat down King.
Won a suit against the city though :)
What were you arrested for, and what was the docket #?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Whooo eeeee!
The white sheets are back from the cleaners I see.
Gotta love the race card when it's played... guess you think the white folk are too blame for slavery too ya revisionist bastard!
:rolleyes:
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It's nice to see so many support what I call 'situational justice'.
Meaning if you really want to do something, it really isn't illegal because the rules don't apply equally to everyone all the time.
Fills me with hope and admiration for my fellow man as well as with respect for the judicial system.
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most of the beating was more than justified... it went on too long tho if you consider that they were police. If it were a private citizen beating poor harmless rodney then I would say that it didn't go on long enough.
L.A. has had to rent an empty warehouse to hold all the looted goods that are being returned by looters ashamed of rodney.
lazs
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Gotta love the race card when it's played... guess you think the white folk are too blame for slavery too ya revisionist bastard!
:rolleyes:
You are a funny little man Bohdi...
Putting words into my mouth then telling me I'm wrong for saying them.. thats rich.
But just to ease your mind a little....
"White folks" aren't too blame for slavery, but some dead white folks are, along with some dead African folks. Now go back to your meetin bubba.
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MT how come you are so insensitve and call other human beings by derogatory titles like "Bubba."
Did you miss the last mandatory california comrade citizen sensitivity workshop? :D
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
MT how come you are so insensitve and call other human beings by derogatory titles like "Bubba."
Did you miss the last mandatory california comrade citizen sensitivity workshop? :D
Dammmit! When was that... Can I get your notes?
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Here comes MT and his "piano theory"
:)
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I've revised it....
There is a black man and a white man. The white man drops a piano on the black man......
everyone say's how sorry they are, but secretly think it is the black man's fault for standing under the piano.
I hope that clarifies things for ya ...
:p
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I belive Rodney beat the hell out of a cop (female i think) and choked them down before the cavalry arrived.
choking a cop alone will get you an bellybutton beating around here... but this is the wild west too.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I've revised it....
There is a black man and a white man. The white man drops a piano on the black man......
...And the black man is charged with posession of a stolen piano, and is sentanced under three strikes to life in prison....
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Originally posted by -Concho-
I belive Rodney beat the hell out of a cop (female i think) and choked them down before the cavalry arrived.
choking a cop alone will get you an bellybutton beating around here... but this is the wild west too.
Concho, this is why I believe our peace officers should have to dress up in clown costumes, ride unicycles and be armed with nothing more dangerous than joy buzzers and cream pies.
Had the LAPD adopted this dress code policy then Rodney King would have suffered nothing more serious than cream filling in his eyes.
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lol
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I belive Rodney beat the hell out of a cop (female i think) and choked them down before the cavalry arrived.
choking a cop alone will get you an bellybutton beating around here... but this is the wild west too.
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I often wonder why it's considered ok for cops to get revenge when someone hurts them or theirs. but the rest of us are suposed to trust in the justice system to handle it.
you fight a cop and win other cops will arive and beat your ass, no trial before punishment, no legal representation. just beat your ass, then arrest you and take you in for trial.
but if someone jumps my brother, son or whatever and I get my hands on them, and beat their ass. then I end up locked up for assault. I'm suposed to have faith in a system that has no faith in it's self.
cops should be expected to have more self controle than your average 'man on the streets' not a free excuse not to follow the same rules as the rest of us.
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For those that say the beating was justified, would you say the same if it was a family member or friend of yours in Rodney's place? How about if it was you getting beat up?
Taken from:
Los Angeles Police Officer's Trial Page (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingvideo.html)
Second-by-Second Account:
0:00 King begins to get up from his hands and knees.
0:02 King is up and charges in the direction of Powell.
0:03 Powell hits King in the shoulder area with his baton and King falls on his face.
0:04-0:14 Video out of focus. King hit by numerous blows from Powell to various parts of his body--probably including one blow to the head.
0:14-0:17 Video clears. King is on his stomach. No blows are struck.
0:17 Powell has baton raised and appears ready to strike King. Briseno puts his hand in front of Powell.
0:20 King is rising. Powell strikes King in arms and chest.
0:21 Wind strikes King near buttocks.
0:23 After Powell strikes King in upper chest, King topples over and turns.
0:25-0:26 Powell strikes King in arm and shoulder area.
0:27-0:28 Powell strikes King in back while King attempts to rise.
0:30 Powell hits King in left arm as King rises from his knees.
0:31 Wind swings at King as King begins to fall.
0:32 King falls. His face appears to hit asphalt.
0:33 Powell strikes King on knee, while Wind hits King in shoulder.
0:34-0:40 King's head his up. Powell and Wind deliver hard blows to King's back, buttocks, and thighs.
0:41 King rolls to left and noodles right leg.
0:43 After two-second break, officers resume force, striking King's legs.
0:44 King lifts his upper torso.
0:45-0:47 Powell strikes King's ankle while Wind strikes his back.
0:51 King rolls on ground while Koon puts arms in form of cross, showing the position he wants King to assume.
0:54 King, on his back, noodles his left leg.
0:56-0:58 King rolls as Powell strikes his hand.
1:02-1:04 Powell reaches for his handcuffs.
1:04-1:06 King raises his torso. Briseno stomps on Kings shoulder and Kings head hits asphalt.
1:08-1:09 Briseno points to King. Powell and Wind strike King's right arm.
1:10 King is on his hands and knees.
1:12-1:13 Wind strikes King's back three times.
1:16 Powell strikes King's left arm.
1:17-1:21 Wind delivers three kicks to King's shoulder and back area.
1:21 Video back in focus. Powell swings at King.
1:25 King is sitting on his calfs. Koon is pointing at King.
1:30 King puts his hands on his head.
1:35 Briseno begins handcuffing King.
1:43 King is put in handcuffs after officers.
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Up to 1:10 he is still resisting by trying to get up.
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I'm not saying its right at all, its just how things are.
Thing have improved dramatically over the past 10-15 years in the way police brutality cases are handled.
Me personally I dont see any reason in beating someone down, it serves no real purpose. Other than making some one feel more like a man I guess.
My original point was that the guy was beating on an officer, and still doing so when the other guys arrived on the scene. At that point were past all of the talking, he made the choice to go to the next level in the use of force continuum. All he had to do was put his hands on his head and give up.
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My original point was that the guy was beating on an officer, and still doing so when the other guys arrived on the scene. At that point were past all of the talking, he made the choice to go to the next level in the use of force continuum.
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I'll agree with that but then the other cops arived and chose to go to another level too.
the police are trained profesionals and I would expect better decision making from them.
if we as citisens are expected to trust in the legal system for justice for wrongs against us then it would seem that cops should do the same. so maybe they should have just taken control of him (with out the extra-curicular beatings) and added the assaulting an officer charge to the rest of it. if they can't do that maybe they are in the wrong line of work.
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At 00:00 he was on his hands and knees, no officers were trying to restrain him at that time. The Cops were there pissed off and they were going to beat the guy to "teach him a lesson".
Koon thought King was on PCP? LOL, sure keep beating on someone that won't even feel it. Keep in mind that if you beat on a suspect bad enough, they could die from internal injuries. The PCP victim will just never feel it (broken bones or not).
Truth is King was never a threat the cops wanted us to believe in. The "threat" label given him was due to their getting caught on video tape and didn't want to get punished.
BTW, I am a big supporter of the police in general. I've got some friends that are cops. Tough job. Yes, there are so called "victims" that make false accusations of the police. I know of one case specifically because I was there. The suspect never saw me so he thought it would be his word against the police officer's. (I can give you that account if you wish, but not now.)
Another account from a cop friend of mine. He injured his back BTW from this arrest. He and three other officers had to subdue a struggling (yes, on drugs) suspect. They succesfully subdued and arrested him without beating him. Did he feel like beating up the suspect for disobeying verbal warnings and instructions? Yup, but he's a cop and had to put his feelings aside.
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police are authoirzed to use one level higher that the person coming at them.
ie. if a guy trys to hit you with a pices of pipe you can shoot him.
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Police radio transmissions (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/Kingtransmissions.html)
The Rodney King Trial: Police Transmissions
The transcript of transmissions between squad cars and the watch commander's office of the Los Angeles Police Department's Foothill Division in the early morning of March 3:
12:29 a.m. From unidentified foot patrol officers in Sunland-Tujunga to Officers Laurence M. Powell and Timothy Wind: "What are you up to....We are up on the rock with [cars] L170, 82 and A89 on top of some abandon house with narco and BFMV [burglary from motor vehicle] suspects in it ....We are waiting for them to hit some places."
12:31 a.m. From Powell to the foot patrol officers: "....Sounds almost exciting as our last call....It was right out of Gorillas in the Mist."
12:32 a.m. From the foot patrol officers to Powell and Wind: "....HaHaHaHa....let me guess who be the parties."
12:32 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol officers: "....I'm just trying to get through the night cause then I'm off for six, count them six, days....time for some serious bike riding."
12:32 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol officers: "....Good guess."
12:34 a.m. From the foot patrol officers to Powell and Wind: "....You can't even get out of bed in the morning let alone bike ride....I'll believe that when I see it....I have one more then I'm off for four."
12:36 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol officers: "....That's where your wrong....I was up at 12:30 today....I can't sleep that's the problem....I need to get worn out."
12:43 a.m. From the foot patrol officer to Powell and Wind: "....But can you keep up....HaHaHaHa....People better know we are talking about bicycling and not something else or they will begin to wonder what these messages are about HaHaHaHa."
12:45 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol officer: "Oh bicycling....Of course."
12:47 a.m. From emergency board operator to all units: "CHP [California Highway Patrol] advises their officers are in pursuit of a vehicle failing to yield southbound Paxton- Foothill....Vehicle is white Hyundai, license 2KFM102, now approaching Glenoaks....Vehicle is now southbound Glenoaks- Paxton....now passing Sylmar....Vehicle is now northbound Van Nuys-Bordon....Foothill RTO [radio-telephone operator] is taking over the broadcasting of the pursuit [car] 16A23 [Powell and Wind] is the primary unit....Now eastbound Van nuys at Fulton...stopped at a light southbound Van Nuys at Foothill...two male black occupants...Vehicle still refusing to yield now eastbound Foothill at Osborne..."
Powell and Wind then got out of their car to investigate on Foothill east of Osborne. One of them broadcast a Code 4, meaning sufficient units were on scene and suspects were in custody at 12:59.
12:56 a.m. From Sgt. Stacy C. Koon to Foothill watch commander's office: "...You just had a big time use of force...tased and beat the suspect of CHP pursuit, Big Time."
12:57 a.m. From watch commander's office to Koon: "Oh well...I'm sure the lizard didn't deserve it....HaHa. I'll let them know O.K."
1:11 a.m. From Koon to watch commander's office: "....I'm gonna drop by the station for a fresh taser and darts...please have desk have one ready."
1:11 a.m. From watch commander's office to Koon: "Okey doke on the ACC desk....You want extra darts??? It's got two."
1:12 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol officer: "....ooops."
1:12 a.m. From the foot patrol to Powell and Wind: "oops, what?"
1:13 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol: "I haven't beaten anyone this bad in a long time."
1:15 a.m. From the foot patrol to Powell and Winds: "Oh not again....Why for you do that....I thought you agreed to chill out for awhile....What did he do?"
1:16 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol: "I think he was dusted...many broken bones later....After the pursuit...."
1:17 a.m. From the foot patrol to Powell and Wind: "What pursuit?"
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Koon's and Powell's police reports (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingreports.html)
The PCP was a coverup angle IMHO.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
At 00:00 he was on his hands and knees, no officers were trying to restrain him at that time.
I've seen hundreds of arrests on Cops and have talked to my uncle (highway patrolman / MP for the last 30 years) about it. If you are on your hands and knees you are still resisting. You need to get on your belly.
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thats the truth funked.
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Link to the video tape (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingvideo.html)
It starts not at the beginning but somewhere after King gets tasered at least twice. Seems the cops should be on him trying to cuff him at that point.
Because we don't have audio and the video of the incident from the beginning, we can only surmise what really went on.
Seems some of the cops wanted to teach King a lesson. they got caught on video tape.
From the tape I see an unarmed suspect reacting to fear and pain. Let's see here. At least ten armed officers surround him but yet he's a threat? Yeah, right.
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Originally posted by funkedup
I've seen hundreds of arrests on Cops and have talked to my uncle (highway patrolman / MP for the last 30 years) about it. If you are on your hands and knees you are still resisting. You need to get on your belly.
Yet how many arrests on "Cops" show a suspect being beaten like that? I've seen many episodes of that show as well. Amazing how civil cops can be under the circumstances.
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If King was truly viewed as a threat, the cops would have had their guns drawn. Most are standing by just watching.
They were watching a beating pure and simple.
Had they known a video was recording them, I'd bet there wouldn't of been a beating at all. Heck, it takes another officer to approach Koon to remark about something (perhaps the beatings enough, they're out of control?). Koon then seems to regain composure and orders the apprehension of King.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Yet how many arrests on "Cops" show a suspect being beaten like that? I've seen many episodes of that show as well. Amazing how civil cops can be under the circumstances.
The person being arrested dictates the ammount of force needed to effect the arrest.
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Use of Force (http://www.cpoa.org/Publications/Sample%20Policies/forcechart.shtml)
the bottom in red is the violators actions, the boxes are the officers response
active resistance warrant the use of intermediate weapons ie ASP Baton or chemical sprays
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You are a funny little man Bohdi...
Putting words into my mouth then telling me I'm wrong for saying them.. thats rich.
But just to ease your mind a little....
"White folks" aren't too blame for slavery, but some dead white folks are, along with some dead African folks. Now go back to your meetin bubba.
Bubba? I put no words in your mouth, I just responded to your assinine comment about people's opinions concerning the King case. You made the accusations of racism through Clan membership, in turn I responded to your accusation. Or did that slip your mind???
Originally posted by midnight Target
Whooo eeeee!
The white sheets are back from the cleaners I see.
It seems to me, that if you would like to whine about slavery and the ilk, you can load your happy little arse on a flight to south east asia and go help out the people suffering from indentured servitude and the like that goes on there. Maybe that may interfere with your Black Panthers schedule though.
:rolleyes:
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I thought some of the posts were a little on the racist side.... So I posted a general comment.
And you seem to be the only one who took personal offense.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I thought some of the posts were a little on the racist side.... So I posated a general comment.
And you seem to be the only one who took personal offense.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
So, whats yer take on Reginald Denny, his beating near to death and the justice that followed? Or do you just point your racism finger, make snappy comments and leave?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I thought some of the posts were a little on the racist side.... So I posated a general comment.
And you seem to be the only one who took personal offense.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Did not take personal offense, more or less was irritated that the racism card gets played any time a black person is a beligerent idiot and gets what is coming to him. Personally I could care less about slavery, too long ago to be a part of my or anyone in this worlds life. Yet somehow, I am, and my children will have to pay for the mistakes made by some ignorant african tribesman selling off his and the people of other tribes to Dutch Traders.
Makes me really go hmmmmmm too!
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Did not take personal offense, more or less was irritated that the racism card gets played any time a black person is a beligerent idiot and gets what is coming to him. Personally I could care less about slavery, too long ago to be a part of my or anyone in this worlds life. Yet somehow, I am, and my children will have to pay for the mistakes made by some ignorant african tribesman selling off his and the people of other tribes to Dutch Traders.
Makes me really go hmmmmmm too!
:rolleyes:
(voiceover of narrator as Bodhi speaks) : It's a new Klan for a new Amerika... a Kuddlier, Kinder Klan.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Did not take personal offense, more or less was irritated that the racism card gets played any time a black person is a beligerent idiot and gets what is coming to him. Personally I could care less about slavery, too long ago to be a part of my or anyone in this worlds life. Yet somehow, I am, and my children will have to pay for the mistakes made by some ignorant african tribesman selling off his and the people of other tribes to Dutch Traders.
Makes me really go hmmmmmm too!
:rolleyes:
Now thats going to make new friends.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Did not take personal offense, more or less was irritated that the racism card gets played any time a black person is a beligerent idiot and gets what is coming to him. Personally I could care less about slavery, too long ago to be a part of my or anyone in this worlds life. Yet somehow, I am, and my children will have to pay for the mistakes made by some ignorant african tribesman selling off his and the people of other tribes to Dutch Traders.
Makes me really go hmmmmmm too!
:rolleyes:
So everyone regardless of race deserves that type of beating for what can best be described as passive resistance. Kinda hard to stay motionless when you're in fear of getting beaten possibly to death.
Kind of like the overbearing parent spanking the kid silly for crying in public. "STOP THAT CRYING RIGHT NOW BEFORE i GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT!!
And yet the parent wonders why they can't get the kid to stop crying.
So I take it the sole blame for slavery rests on not the whites that bought and resold the slaves and abused them, but "mistakes made by some ignorant african tribesman selling off his and the people of other tribes to Dutch Traders. "
Kind of like saying our local drug dealers and abusers are not responsible for the drug problem, but only some ignorant poppy growers, etc.
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LOL we have a guy lying down being savagely beaten by several cops why other cops stand around watching. It'd be a no brainer to cuff the suspect and gettim into a car.
And people think the beating was justified.
I'm very, very happy that many on this board aren't in a position where they have authority over others in this manner.
Me, I only got beaten up by the cops once. Nightstick to the ribs and one hit over the back and I stopped acting tough in front of my friends - very effective. Two hits then they sat on me. This was back when I was a stupid teenager doing stupid things - and I fought back a great deal more than King, kicking, biting, you name it.
So either the cops here are better trained, better disciplined or there are some very large differences in violent culture.
Sure we have rotten eggs. Once they're caught on camera they get punished like other citizens. And lose their jobs.
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Did they have pepper spray?
And or do they now?
Tronsky
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Originally posted by Airhead
(voiceover of narrator as Bodhi speaks) : It's a new Klan for a new Amerika... a Kuddlier, Kinder Klan.
This bait is terrible, throw it back.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
So everyone regardless of race deserves that type of beating for what can best be described as passive resistance. Kinda hard to stay motionless when you're in fear of getting beaten possibly to death.
King, had just taken the cops on a 100+ mph chase through residential neighborhoods, endangering the lives of innocents with his idiocy. Then to top it off he continued to fight back (after he hit a cop) through a tasing, and getting thumped with a night stick. Personally, I think, regardless of race, they should have shot him, and that would have been the end, possibly more humane.
Originally posted by SaburoS
So I take it the sole blame for slavery rests on not the whites that bought and resold the slaves and abused them, but "mistakes made by some ignorant african tribesman selling off his and the people of other tribes to Dutch Traders. "
Kind of like saying our local drug dealers and abusers are not responsible for the drug problem, but only some ignorant poppy growers, etc.
Not like saying that at all. The white people who bought them and abused them were wrong as well. Nothing justifies slavery in any shape or form. But I am tired of hearing how wrong white people are and how white people are the source of all the african americans problems. Never do you hear about the "other" parties involved. Sickening....
The drug problem has no bearing or comparison on this. I think the drug problem relies on the dealers, a drug addict has lost all control and needs help. The poppy growers who knowing sell the poppys to a drug maker are just as guilty too.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
This bait is terrible, throw it back.
That's not bait, it's a shoe. Seems to fit you too.
Hey, whatever, it's too nice of a day to debate with someone who says things like King "got what he had coming to him" and "I am tired of hearing how wrong white people are."
I could debate you on your statements, but some things are so obvious there's no point in anyone pointing them out. Like I said, it's a new Klan- a, Kuddlier, Kinder Klan.
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Airhead,
You had best find another shoe for me then, I am in no way affiliated, nor would I ever agree to support the Klan.
But I do believe Rodney King (it could have been anyone black, white, purple, or blue) deserved his beating, BUT the humane thing would have been to shoot him. Either way, you are going to slap a label on me because of my opinion on the subject. Whoopee for you. But I suggest you learn a bit more about me before you try that in the future.
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Fair enough Bodhi, I have no right to imply you are affiliated with any hate group, the Klan or otherwise. I don't agree with your opinion on the King beating, but I apologize for "slapping a label" on you based upon one paragraph in one post.
Like I said, it's too nice of a day for debate, so and have a good day.
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Same to you.
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"If the cops gotta come after you, they're bringing an bellybutton whoopin with them"-Chris Rock
Yeah those cops in the video are punks, I don't know how you can watch it and surmise otherwise .
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Suave, if you look at it in the sense that the man being beaten is an innocent, then you see foul. If you look at it in the sense that the man being beaten is a known violent offender hoped up on alcohol and drugs, then you see it in a whole different sense. Lets not forget, Rodney was already well known, for his beatings of his wife and armed robberys, to the LAPD. Little wonder they did not seek to make damn sure this violent offender was not subdued before he thumped one of them. The biggest wonder is why they did not just shoot him and make all our lives simpler...
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Suave, if you look at it in the sense that the man being beaten is an innocent, then you see foul. If you look at it in the sense that the man being beaten is a known violent offender hoped up on alcohol and drugs, then you see it in a whole different sense. Lets not forget, Rodney was already well known, for his beatings of his wife and armed robberys, to the LAPD. Little wonder they did not seek to make damn sure this violent offender was not subdued before he thumped one of them. The biggest wonder is why they did not just shoot him and make all our lives simpler...
:rolleyes:
So the police being judge, jury, and executioner is ok by you?
The cops didn't know Rodney until they had him in custody. But I see now, shooting unarmed suspects is ok by you. Frankly. I don't want my life that "simple", nor the country I live in being that "simple". Frankly I don't care if the assailant is a violent felon or an innocent suspect. In that situation there wasn't an "active resistance" present to warrant that kind of beating. Bottom line is this as to the police thinking he was a threat to him:
THEY WOULD HAVE HAD THEIR GUNS DRAWN IF HE WAS A THREAT!
Show me an instance of any cop not drawing their gun in a threatening situation.
The police are to apprehend the suspect to let our justice system take care of the innocence or guilt of the suspect.
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Bodhi, two wrongs don't make a right.
Violent criminal behavior is violent criminal behaviour, makes no difference if it is perpetrated by a crack head wife beater or a public servant . Those cops are no better than the thugs that beat Reginald Denny . Actually I think the crime is more heinous because the perpetraters wore badges .
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Show me an instance of any cop not drawing their gun in a threatening situation.
I can think of a couple of personal stiuations that I was scared as hell and I didn't draw down.
When your gun comes out it automaticly elvates the situation, something you don't always want to do.
Also the group of officers are in a heightened mental state. If one guy draws his gun, the next guy might not know whats going on and presumes there is a gun and starts shooting. That happened in New York a while back when that unarmed kid was killed.
You can have all the training in the world and still make a mistake.
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Originally posted by StSanta
Now, 4 guys smashing on for five minutes on a guy lying down is, in my book, excessive. They could have used a tenth of the force they used to subdue the dude.
Oh..you were there huh?
Let me tell you this. One of my best friends is a cop. One time, there was a girl, a tiny, skinny 16yr old girl who had taken some weird drug and gotten a *really* bad trip. They were 4 cops on her. And I'm talking big guys here. My friend is 6 feet tall, and weighs 120kg (240 pounds) and he is a cop, he can do all kinds of crazy grips and moves. (He always wants to demonstrate them when he's drunk too, something that tends to make drinking with him ...eventful.)
Anyway, they were 4 guys on this 16 yr old little girl on a bad trip, and they almost could not control her. They were holding one limb each and still she managed to kick, bite, spit, claw, scratch, hit, HURT every one of them. He thinks that is the worst fight he has ever been in, and that is including the fistfight with a known HIV positive guy who whacked his hand through a glass window and then tried to get as much blood over the cops faces as possible. He said that if it had been a guy, the 4 cops would have gotten their batons and beat him senseless and then put him in the car. But somehow it felt wrong when the bad guy was a little girl.
Moral of the story. If you werent there, who are you to determine what force was necessary to subdue that guy?
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Oh..you were there huh?
Let me tell you this. One of my best friends is a cop. One time, there was a girl, a tiny, skinny 16yr old girl who had taken some weird drug and gotten a *really* bad trip. They were 4 cops on her. And I'm talking big guys here. My friend is 6 feet tall, and weighs 120kg (240 pounds) and he is a cop, he can do all kinds of crazy grips and moves. (He always wants to demonstrate them when he's drunk too, something that tends to make drinking with him ...eventful.)
Anyway, they were 4 guys on this 16 yr old little girl on a bad trip, and they almost could not control her. They were holding one limb each and still she managed to kick, bite, spit, claw, scratch, hit, HURT every one of them. He thinks that is the worst fight he has ever been in, and that is including the fistfight with a known HIV positive guy who whacked his hand through a glass window and then tried to get as much blood over the cops faces as possible. He said that if it had been a guy, the 4 cops would have gotten their batons and beat him senseless and then put him in the car. But somehow it felt wrong when the bad guy was a little girl.
Moral of the story. If you werent there, who are you to determine what force was necessary to subdue that guy?
Have you seen Rodney's video?
This was not some good cops trying to subdue him. This was a beating.
He was on the floor, helpless, and they beat the crap out of him for five minutes.
I cant believe anyone can see that video and strongly believe such use of force was necessary.
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Oh I've seen that video. Back when it happened, they ran it pretty mucu round the clock on the news here.
Like I said, I wasnt there, to my knowledge neither was anyone here.
All I see is alot of people posting their own personal opinions and thoughts "oh, how could he have been a threat, he was on the ground", or "he was not resisting, its obvious" or whatever.
My opinion:
I wasnt there, I havent seen the whole story, just some "edited for the 6 oclock news"-segment, I dont know what happened before that segment, nor do I know what happened after that segment. I do know that personally I trust cops, and I would never ever end up in a situation like that, simply because when a cop tells me to stop, I stop. If the tells me to lay down, I lay down. But that is beside the point.
But there's more. Not only do we know jack cheese about what really happened. The case has been to trial where a jury found the cops not guilty.
So ok, we dont know what happened because we werent there, all we know is what the media has decided to show us. Others do know what happened (the jury in the trial) and they decided that what the cops did was ok.
So who the he** are all the people in this thread claiming to have some inside info on what really happened?
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Oh..you were there huh?
Anyway, they were 4 guys on this 16 yr old little girl on a bad trip, and they almost could not control her. They were holding one limb each and still she managed to kick, bite, spit, claw, scratch, hit, HURT every one of them.
Moral of the story. If you werent there, who are you to determine what force was necessary to subdue that guy?
Rodney King didn't do that in any part of the film or is it stated that they tried to subdue him before the film was shot. Read the Police reports linked above.
BTW, Koon and Powell were found guilty in the second trial.
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Steve, all that proves is what the rest of the world has always known- in Sweden the women are tougher than the men. :D
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Originally posted by -Concho-
I can think of a couple of personal stiuations that I was scared as hell and I didn't draw down.
When your gun comes out it automaticly elvates the situation, something you don't always want to do.
Also the group of officers are in a heightened mental state. If one guy draws his gun, the next guy might not know whats going on and presumes there is a gun and starts shooting. That happened in New York a while back when that unarmed kid was killed.
You can have all the training in the world and still make a mistake.
How would drawing your gun in this case elevate the situation? Remember, the cops beating him were in fear of him or so they say. Amazing how many officers on the scene just stood and watched as if it were a "show". After Koon tases King, you can see him nonchalantly swinging his Taser by the cables.
Yeah, they were in real fear all right :rolleyes:
The cops that were doing the beating were angry at King, not fearful. They really didn't want compliance until they beat the crap out of him first.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Oh I've seen that video. Back when it happened, they ran it pretty mucu round the clock on the news here.
Like I said, I wasnt there, to my knowledge neither was anyone here.
All I see is alot of people posting their own personal opinions and thoughts "oh, how could he have been a threat, he was on the ground", or "he was not resisting, its obvious" or whatever.
My opinion:
I wasnt there, I havent seen the whole story, just some "edited for the 6 oclock news"-segment, I dont know what happened before that segment, nor do I know what happened after that segment. I do know that personally I trust cops, and I would never ever end up in a situation like that, simply because when a cop tells me to stop, I stop. If the tells me to lay down, I lay down. But that is beside the point.
But there's more. Not only do we know jack cheese about what really happened. The case has been to trial where a jury found the cops not guilty.
So ok, we dont know what happened because we werent there, all we know is what the media has decided to show us. Others do know what happened (the jury in the trial) and they decided that what the cops did was ok.
So who the he** are all the people in this thread claiming to have some inside info on what really happened?
Like I said in one of my first posts in this thread, we can only surmise as we don't have the full video, nor the audio of the incident.
You claim to be a judge. How do you determine the truth in your cases? The cops are always right? They never make mistakes? They never are in the wrong? If they are in the wrong, they never lie about it? Police reports are always 100% truthful?
Look at the testimony. Look at the police reports. Then look at the video.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
You claim to be a judge. How do you determine the truth in your cases? The cops are always right? They never make mistakes? They never are in the wrong? If they are in the wrong, they never lie about it? Police reports are always 100% truthful?
[/b]
That is impossible to give a general answer to..."how do you determine the truth" LOL who says we get even close to the truth even half of the time? You think this is easy?
I can say this though, we always presume the cops tell the truth yeah. I've never been on a case where a cop has been the defendant though. Maybe it would be different then, I dunno.
Look at the testimony. Look at the police reports. Then look at the video.
...then look at the not-guilty verdict from the court.
Face it, you dont know enough about the case to make the kind of statements you are making.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Rodney King didn't do that in any part of the film or is it stated that they tried to subdue him before the film was shot. Read the Police reports linked above.
BTW, Koon and Powell were found guilty in the second trial.
See the highlighted part.
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The only reason the cops were retried was to appease the rioters who were out of control in LA... thats the only reason, and an unjust one at best!
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I was avoiding this thread like the plague as I figured posting in it is a no win situation. After reading some of the posts it's obvious many here are depending on a brief tape that is incomplete from the start of the situation much less the stop. The portion broadcast repeatedly is only a small portion of that tape as well. It was a case of yellow journalism at it's best. No attempt to remain an unbiased observer reporting facts but a willfull editing and broadcast of a portion of it.
Animal
The tape and stop was not 5 minutes as you state. It was much shorter.
Saburo,
The drawing of a weapon is an escalation to deadly force. Unless the Officer is facing a threat to their lives ie. a weapon of some type be it a rock, stick, knife or other potentially lethal weapon drawing a weapon makes it available to be used should you get into a close contact situation. In short, you do not draw it when only facing an unarmed suspect unless there is a disparity in body size or numbers against the Officer. The continuum of force that Officers are trained in indicates that you use only the level of force that will contain the suspect and keep you from being injured.
The Officers HAD tased king twice. In testing a taser hit is SUPPOSED to take down a suspect in ONE hit. Officers are trained in this bit of information as well. Tasers are relatively ineffective against people who are on some drugs known to cause psychotic behavior such as PCP and other high doses of amphetamins as well as a really deranged person due to a mental problem. When an Officer observes a person shake off 2 taser hits and multiple shocks the conclusion to be drawn based on their training is obvious. Observations are all they have to work with as a blood test won't be a possibility until AFTER control is gained and the suspect is in a medical facility and the results known several days later. Until that happens the Officer has to rely on observation of the situation and make his tactical response accordingly.
Drawing a weapon, as you suggested, is not appropriate here based on a perceived threat. Your supposition of threat feeling of the officer is inapropriate. You were not there, have never been there and do not know what you are talking about outside of monday morning quarterbacking based on information unavailable to the Officers involved in the situation.
As to the amount of force used in the situation. As far as I am concerned it could and SHOULD have been handled differently. I was trained, as were my fellow Officers in my Department, to use a swarming technique. It exposes you to more risk and has resulted in frequent Officer injuries including some I have suffered. I do not know if the Officers involved had been trained in that maner at all. Neither does anyone else posting here that was not a part of LAPD at the time.
Saburo, you seem to want to use this situation to tar ALL Officers of all Departments by stating they suffered as a result of this situation. That is your prejudice there. Please recognise it and keep it to yourself. All Officers are not like this situation and frankly very few situations are like this one as well. That is why it made such a big news production. It was news as it is rarther infrequent. If it were commonplace it would not have been news, so please refrain from generalizing about Officers because of this incident.
You use a tape transcription of comments as a damning indictment of those involved. Taken out of context it IS damning. It is indicative of a person (as in a human being) who has been in a rather intense situation and is not indicative of them in a NORMAL environment. Is it good? No but it is not unexpected given the amount of stress and adrenalin reaction. Should it be taken as an indicator of a state of mind before the incident? No again as it is a result of the stress during the incident.
As a matter of fact, in the use of batons, side handle or otherwise, please note the relative lack of effectiveness shown by king's reaction to the blows. This in itself indicates a lack of reponse to pain stimuli or a lack of power being delivered by the blows. Baton training tends to indicate that compliance of the force being delivered is a fairly guaranteed concept. It may be optimistic but it IS predicated on dealing with a more or less NORMAL suspect not under the influence of drugs or mental problems. This observation would also indicate a person who is under the influence of a psychotic drug or psychosis itself. Would YOU want to get into th grasp of a person like that?? To cuff him without the total submission of the suspect is to do just that. I believe one of your earlier posts indicated that one of the Officers was cocked ready to strike, next to king but did not do so until king moved in contradiction to commands. That indicates to me that they understood the situation and were not ready to expose themselves to king UNTIL they felt he would respond as commanded. Without a sound track or the Officer's thoughts I could be wrong in that supposition.
As to the trial and results. I was rather surprised at the vcerdicts. After all the press and media attention including the repeated broadcast of the small portion of video I had no expectations of acquital. All the info I had at the time was the media as well so my conclusions were that the Officers would end up fried. The jury, none of which were Police Officers. saw it defferently. I accepted it as much as I had to accept the verdict of a jury in all the case I was involved with. The heard the evidence presented, the arguments provided, pro and con, and made their decision. That is the way the system works.
When the second trial was started, please note only Law Enforcement are subject to prosecutions of violations of civil rights and repeatedly tried for essentially the same offense AFTER acquital based on the same incident, I had absolutely NO expectation of an acquital. The riots, blamed on the first trial, and subsequent publicity made it fairly certain that ANY jury pool would be tainted beyond an chance of being unbiased. The publicity made it abundantly clear that the first jury "didn't do the right thing" and the second trial would correct that situation. That there were only 2 convictions was a surprise to me.
Now that is about all I am going to say on this situation. I am rather surprised that it is as much of an issue as it is today but I suppose that some can't just let things go if it doesn't fit their paradigm of life or justice or whatever. Hold your grudges one way or the other if it makes you happy. I'm moving on.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Saburo, you seem to want to use this situation to tar ALL Officers of all Departments by stating they suffered as a result of this situation. That is your prejudice there. Please recognise it and keep it to yourself. All Officers are not like this situation and frankly very few situations are like this one as well. That is why it made such a big news production. It was news as it is rarther infrequent. If it were commonplace it would not have been news, so please refrain from generalizing about Officers because of this incident.
You seem to want to catagorize in boxes views other than your own. My critical comments have been limited to this case only. Perhaps if you'll point out where I try to "tar ALL Officers of all Departments."
Maybe it is you that is prejudiced.
Perhaps you'll look at the trial transcripts of the people that were actually there. Tim Singer and Melanie Singer (both CHP) were both there. Theirs would be unbiased testimony. Briseno was there too, LAPD. I guess those three hate the police dept also since their testimony counters Koon's and Powell's also, eh?
Perhaps you'll look at the police reports (Koon's, Powell's, Singer's). Have a look again at the video. Look at the radio transmission. Take them all together, then make your statements.
BTW, As far as "escalating" the situation by drawing firearms, that had already been done early on.
How about you state the facts of this case (and this case only) and then argue/debate your position.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
That is impossible to give a general answer to..."how do you determine the truth" LOL who says we get even close to the truth even half of the time? You think this is easy?
I can say this though, we always presume the cops tell the truth yeah. I've never been on a case where a cop has been the defendant though. Maybe it would be different then, I dunno.
...then look at the not-guilty verdict from the court.
Face it, you dont know enough about the case to make the kind of statements you are making. [/B]
Oh, I see. All decisions from all juries are just and accurate to what actually happened.
The following taken from:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/lapdaccount.html (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/lapdaccount.html)
********
Both sides understood that jury selection could be critical to the trial outcome. The prosecution would have loved to seat some blacks--who tend to be skeptical of police practices--, but the jury pool of 260 people included only a half dozen African Americans--and five of those had no interest in serving on a jury in what they considered hostile territory. Michael Stone, attorney for Officer Powell, used a peremptory challenge to strike the one black to make it to the jury box. Even more troubling for the prosecution, all the potential jurors seemed to be very pro-law enforcement. Two jurors were N.R.A. members. Two other jurors were retired military veterans. Terry White, chief prosecutor in the case and an African-American, complained that "everyone seemed very pro-police; they all seemed to come from the same background." White later recalled thinking "we were going to lose this case." Jo-Ann Dimitrius, jury consultant for the defense, was understandably delighted with the final twelve. She called it "a gem of a jury."
***********
BTW, do you feel OJ Simpson is guilty of not guilty of Nicole's death? We know what the first jury decided, but do you feel he killed Nicole?
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Funny how it was so important for King to be face down, prone (he was actually yet he still got beat), yet they ended up cuffing him as he was sitting up. Interesting reasoning for the beatings.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Oh, I see. All decisions from all juries are just and accurate to what actually happened.
[/b]
Eh...no, that is not what I said.
BTW, do you feel OJ Simpson is guilty of not guilty of Nicole's death? We know what the first jury decided, but do you feel he killed Nicole?
Well, in the eyes of the law he is innocent, but he did murder those two people.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Eh...no, that is not what I said.
Well, in the eyes of the law he is innocent, but he did murder those two people. [/B]
There is hope for you after all ;)
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Saburo,
I had thought that before I made my post I had read in one of yours that the king incident had set law enforcement back and that they had not recovered. That was the reason I put that paragraph you quoted in my post. I went back today and did not see that comment in any posts including yours. I do not know if I made a mistake and atributed it to you or if it was edited out. If it was a mistake I aplogize. If it wasn't a mistake then, you can figure out the approprate response.
As to the rest of your diatribe. It is over dude. This incident is in the past. Why are you so set on maintaining a situation that does not seem to have repeated itself? The legal system has spoken and that was supposed to be the end of it.
As to other opinions voiced by your self and others, they are entitled to them. It doesn't mean they are right or wrong, just that they have a position on it. I stated mine but unlike you, I have been in that situation before. You are welcome to believe whatever you want about it as it carries no weight or impact on anything else. You haven't "been there" so all you can do is monday morning quarterback. Enjoy yourself.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Saburo,
I had thought that before I made my post I had read in one of yours that the king incident had set law enforcement back and that they had not recovered. That was the reason I put that paragraph you quoted in my post. I went back today and did not see that comment in any posts including yours. I do not know if I made a mistake and atributed it to you or if it was edited out. If it was a mistake I aplogize. If it wasn't a mistake then, you can figure out the approprate response.
I guess you mean this quote:
It set the image of police officers back to the point that they still haven't recovered.
I didn't type it nor did I infer it in any of my posts. In case you haven't noticed, I try to keep my arguments in this case based on the facts present. I do realize this to be an emotional issue as are many subjects. I try to keep the namecalling out of my arguments as I'm interested in informed (as best we can under the circumstances) discussions regarding the subject at hand lest it develope to childish yelling matches.
As to the rest of your diatribe. It is over dude. This incident is in the past. Why are you so set on maintaining a situation that does not seem to have repeated itself? The legal system has spoken and that was supposed to be the end of it.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but that case was an aberration, a rarity. Yes, I have friends that are cops. Not one of them has been in that type of situation where they had to constantly beat down a suspect like that. Have they been in similar situations where they had to apprehend an uncooperative suspect? You bet. Has it happened often? Not at all. One cop friend of mine was on disability (back injury) off and on for over two years due to a struggle where he and 3 other officers were trying to apprehend a drug crazed suspect. They got him down with-out beating the guy. By far, a majority of suspects give up without a serious fight.
BTW I didn't bring up this case. Just commented on it like everyone else here in this thread.
As to other opinions voiced by your self and others, they are entitled to them. It doesn't mean they are right or wrong, just that they have a position on it. I stated mine but unlike you, I have been in that situation before. You are welcome to believe whatever you want about it as it carries no weight or impact on anything else. You haven't "been there" so all you can do is monday morning quarterback. Enjoy yourself. [/QUOTE]
Unless you were actually there at that scene, you too are being a "monday morning quarterback". With all due respect, I will take the testimony of officers Tim and Melanie Singer, and Briseno as they were there. You weren't, nor was anyone else in this BBS there. Apparently you care enough about what I type, that you feel a need to respond to me.
I'm glad I have your approval to voice my opinion. :rolleyes:
What I or anyone else types here (or most any online flight sim BBS for that matter) carries very little to no weight at all in the real world. Get over it.
Just out of curiosity, I guess we should not discuss the Holocaust, the Spanish Inquisition , Japanese massacre of the Chinese, Slavery, The Civil War, WWII, WWI, etc.? After all, we aren't there. After all that was in the past. Right?
I'll continue to voice my opinion as I'll support anyone here to voice their opinion on sensitive subjects.
Sometimes it is better not to forget tragedies so we don't repeat them ;)
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I stand by me opinion....
They should have shot him!
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The proctologist called... he found your head.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The proctologist called... he found your head.
Why did the proctologist call you? You got a thing going on there huh?
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Ouch Hortlund!!!! Nice shot there and it was well placed too. :) :p
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If the proctologist calls back tell him I'm not in.;)
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Rodney should be grateful he wasn't in NYC. He might have ended up playing "toilet plunger spin-the-bottle" back at the station.
I think he he should dedicate himself to helping OJ find the real killers.
Cain't we awl jes git alawng????
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Why did the proctologist call you? You got a thing going on there huh?
As much as I enjoy a good comeback line.. this is the BBS equivalent of "nanner nanner"
You can do better Stevie.