Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dune on April 16, 2003, 01:04:00 PM
-
From CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/16/sprj.irq.abbas.arrested/index.html)
Erakat: Apprehension illegal
Abbas is general director of the Palestinian Liberation Front, one of multiple offshoots of the Palestine Liberation Organization. The U.S. State Department has designated the PLF a terrorist organization.
Palestinian Cabinet member Saeb Erakat said Wednesday that the United States violated the Oslo peace accords when it apprehended Abbas.
Erakat pointed to the Oslo accords, signed by Israel and the PLO and witnessed by the United States, Russia, Jordan, Egypt, Norway and the European Union, of which Italy is a member.
That agreement specified that no member of the Palestine Liberation Organization will be arrested or brought to court for any action that happened before September 13, 1993, the day the first Oslo accord was signed, Erakat said.
U.S. authorities filed a criminal complaint against Abbas over Klinghoffer's death in 1986, but a federal grand jury never indicted him. U.S. officials said they were scrambling to find out why the complaint was dropped and "actively discussing" what, if any, legal action to take next.
"Right now everybody is talking to everybody -- several agencies, including the Defense Department," a senior U.S. Justice Department official said.
Italy however, is trying to extridate him. (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-War-Italy-Abbas.html)
-
Since Abu Abbas is a former member of the PLO but broke off and created his own off-shoot of the PLO in the late '70s, I don't see how the US is violating the Oslo Accords by capturing him and holding him over for trial. So technically he wasn't in the PLO in the '80s when he did his acts of terrorism.
Ack-Ack
-
We don't have too. We can just extradite him.
Italy was not a signatory to the Oslo accords, and he was sentenced to 4 life sentences (plus) there.
-
Originally posted by Vermillion
We don't have too. We can just extradite him.
Italy was not a signatory to the Oslo accords, and he was sentenced to 4 life sentences (plus) there.
That's good to hear.
So if we can get around the Oslo problem, we can fry him here in the US. If not, worst case is he spends the rest of his life in jail. Either way he's ****ed. :)
-
Take him out to the Med and roll him off a ship in a wheel chair.
Heck, I'll do it.
-
Actually, his organisation comes in under the umbrella of the PLO. So if he is to be prosecuted, it is to be for crimes commited after '93.
Erakat has already proclaimed any trial in the US as being against the Oslo accord, and it looks like he is right. *If* the PLO is seen as the centre of an umbrella organisation. This, however, has a problem; it'd mean the PLO would also be responsible fr the actions of those organisations; and thus be labelled a terrorist organisation.
The US can and should go ahead; the Palestinians themselves can choose whether to cause problems and burn themselves or not.
Do what Monk said. That murderer said that the elderly American incited the other passengers and therefore he was killed. Too hard to gag a wheelchair bound man I guess.
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Since Abu Abbas is a former member of the PLO but broke off and created his own off-shoot of the PLO in the late '70s, I don't see how the US is violating the Oslo Accords by capturing him and holding him over for trial. So technically he wasn't in the PLO in the '80s when he did his acts of terrorism.
Ack-Ack
There is no violation of Oslo Accords, since Abbas has already been sentenced to 5 life in jail, and, even with the permissive and forgiving Italian justice, he will never see the light again.
Since he has been sentenced as terrorist, he will be under Art.41/bis an article specially written for our terrorists and extended later for mafia.
It means continued isolation for the rest of his life, and 1-2 visit allowed per year, under strict control.
Not funny.... maybe he will prefer to die ;)
-
Are the Oslo accords still in effect?
Seems they were supposed to help establish peace in Isreal/Palestine, and those two parties haven't exactly followed the accords to the letter.
Any agreement that allows someone immunity for rolling and old man off the boat doesn't pass the 'legitimate' test with me.
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Any agreement that allows someone immunity for rolling and old man off the boat doesn't pass the 'legitimate' test with me.
I guess you will be surprised about how few of theese "legitimate" tests will be passed by usual peace agreements. ;)
International politics are'nt something "clean".
-
agreed
-
Actually, the Oslo Accords pertain to people in that region for the purpose of peace talks. Kind of like diplomatic immunity. It was made so members could go there and hash out peace without fear of being arrested for crimes up to that point.
-
The case against this guy is very weak to begin with. He wasnt on that boat and they have intercepted telephone recordings of him telling the hostage takers to give up. He was certainly involved and was found guilty by the Italians for his role
Maybe you guys ought to look into the evidence against the guy before sentencing him to death.
Right now all they have is the Italian conviction. We should give him to the Italians and let them deal with it.
-
Interesting thread. Thanks martlet for the update there - you're saying that it only has meaning with regards to meeting in Oslo, and not otherwise?
-
Originally posted by StSanta
Interesting thread. Thanks martlet for the update there - you're saying that it only has meaning with regards to meeting in Oslo, and not otherwise?
Ok, before I get roped into a "you don't know jack" debate, here is my stance.
First, I could give a crap what happens to him. Second, he'll be dead or in prison soon whether we release him or jail him.
Now, to answer your question.
On one of the news channels they were interviewing someone that helped write the Oslo Accords. I don't remember the guys name or the syndicate, so just disregard everything I say on this topic if you'd like. I'm just repeating what the guys said.
He said the Oslo Accords were to allow peace talks to happen in the region. Gaza etc. He used the likeness to diplomatic immunity. He said if you were there, participating in peace talks, you couldn't be arrested. Once you left you were on your own.
He also said a federal law passed allowing the US to arrest and prosecute people for murdering US citizens internationally wasn't passed until after the incident took place. I can't remember what law he was referring to, and haven't looked for it. Assuming everything he said is true, the US wouldn't have a basis for prosecuting him anyway, so we really don't have a choice but to give him to Italy.
Again, I'm just repeating what I heard.
-
Batz, in the past couple of years, Abbu Abbas did an interview for an American "news" show. Something like Nightline, 48Hours, or one of the other primetime news shows.
Basically in the interview, he admitted on camera to everything. There is enough in that interview alone to convict the man.
Obviously at the time, he thought he was safe in Iraq and was thumbing his nose at the American government. Boy was he wrong... hehehehehe.
-
What are you people worrying about?
We all know that even if this guy "walks free" from a legality, Mossad/CIA will plug him soon after.
-
Verm yes he was involved but he didnt order to have the guy killed or kill the guy himself. The News Media leaves that impression on folks.
He has been found guilty and has multiple life sentences. Turn him over to the Italians and that should be that.
I believe the Egyptians (could be wrong as I dont recall off hand) gave the Americans tapes of intercepted phone calls from Abbas to the hijackers. They wanted more evidence to prove his involvement in the actual murder. If anything the tapes would have aided in his defense. However, hes a terrorist and as such he earned those multiple life sentences. There should be no "trying to figure out what to do with him".
-
Originally posted by Batz
Verm yes he was involved but he didnt order to have the guy killed or kill the guy himself. The News Media leaves that impression on folks.
He has been found guilty and has multiple life sentences. Turn him over to the Italians and that should be that.
I believe the Egyptians (could be wrong as I dont recall off hand) gave the Americans tapes of intercepted phone calls from Abbas to the hijackers. They wanted more evidence to prove his involvement in the actual murder. If anything the tapes would have aided in his defense. However, hes a terrorist and as such he earned those multiple life sentences. There should be no "trying to figure out what to do with him".
But two years later he told the Boston Globe a slightly different story.
"(Klinghoffer) created troubles. He was handicapped but he was inciting and provoking the other passengers. So the decision was made to kill him," he told the newspaper.