Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on April 16, 2003, 03:53:39 PM
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I've often wondered why Saab prices were so high. Seems like you don't get much for the money. I guess it must have something to do with the economics of the country where the cars are made. High taxes and a welfare state are job killers. :(
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/saab16_20030416.htm
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Saabs are, IMO, some of the best bang for the buck cars out there, if you can live with FWD.
My father had a 9-3 SE (HOT) for awhile and it was a good little car. Very fast considering the class, roomy, and somewhere just below Audi and BMW in terms of quality of fitment.
Ive always had a thing for the 99-02 9-3 Viggens. Much like your WRX, there are marginally impressive in stock form, but with a few grand, they can be made very, very fast.
The 2.3L Turbo Viggen engine pumps out 230HP and 260 ft/lbs at 21 PSI. There is a large aftermarket base for the 9-3 in all forms and with about $3,000 you can turn a Viggen into a 350HP monster.
The 99's are going for between $15K-18K - for the performance it offers, there arent many cars I know of that are in the same league. (That and the cars are very, very rare. Saab only made 400 Viggens in 99)
(http://www.solinger-tageblatt.de/_bilder/st-autos/viggen2.jpg)
(http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/news/aw/saa9908301cmg.jpg)
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Every time I look at Saabs at the car show, they are at least $10k more than a comparable Japanese car that is equal in terms of luxury and performance. The Germans can get away with that, because they have the reputation of quality, but for a Swedish FWD 4 banger it's ridiculous.
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Those Viggens were close to $40k new and they aren't nearly as quick as a WRX or a bunch of other less expensive performance sedans in the <$30k range.
I think they are cool cars, but at that price the are a non-starter.
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I tend to agree... although the cars do have a reputation for being comparable to Germany's finest in terms of reliability. Its not uncommon to see Saab's with well over 200,000 miles on them.
Personally... I considering one of these as my next daily driver... 00-02 Audi S4.
Make a call to Autothority... waste a Saturday in the garage... and then...
booooooOOOOOOOSSSSTTTTT!!!!!
(http://www.denijs.be/images/Gallery/Audi/Other%20audi%20cars/audi_s4_front.jpg)
(http://www.denijs.be/images/Gallery/Audi/Other%20audi%20cars/0599_1.jpg)
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Originally posted by funkedup
Those Viggens were close to $40k new and they aren't nearly as quick as a WRX or a bunch of other less expensive performance sedans in the <$30k range.
I think they are cool cars, but at that price the are a non-starter.
Well, with the torque being limited in 1st and 2nd gear on the Viggens, they are hardly drag racers - and you just cant argue with AWD for launching - but having driven both in stock and modified form - the Viggen owns the highway without question.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I tend to agree... although the cars do have a reputation for being comparable to Germany's finest in terms of reliability. Its not uncommon to see Saab's with well over 200,000 miles on them.
Personally... I considering one of these as my next daily driver... 00-02 Audi S4.
Make a call to Autothority... waste a Saturday in the garage... and then...
booooooOOOOOOOSSSSTTTTT!!!!!
(http://www.denijs.be/images/Gallery/Audi/Other%20audi%20cars/audi_s4_front.jpg)
(http://www.denijs.be/images/Gallery/Audi/Other%20audi%20cars/0599_1.jpg)
Why get a poor imitation when you could get a real WRX? :)
STi is coming out soon. Save your pennies. It will eat even modded S4's for breakfast. :)]
I guess German cars are cool if you have too much money. I'll take WRX + House down payment over S4 + Living in cardboard box anyday. :)
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Hell for the price of the new S4 I think you could have a WRX and an S2000.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Why get a poor imitation when you could get a real WRX? :)
STi is coming out soon. Save your pennies. It will eat even modded S4's for breakfast. :)]
I guess German cars are cool if you have too much money. I'll take WRX + House down payment over S4 + Living in cardboard box anyday. :)
HAH!! Because I dont like plastic interiors! :D
Ill see if I cant find a link to a video I DLed last night... Stage II APR S4 vs. Evo VIII... the Evo kept up nicely, but in the end, the result was as expected. I dont expect the Sti to fair much better. :D (The SII setup is about the most aggressive setup you can run on the stock blowers - somewhere around 370 HP and 400 ft/lbs IIRC)
As for downpayments on a house... silly Funked... thats what monthly payments and debt are for!! Isnt America GREAT! LOL :D
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Oh hell, Im not talking new - the 2000 S4's are in the $25,000 range. Whats a new STi run? Somewhere around $30K right?
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I've sat in plenty of Audis. Sure looked like plastic to me.
(they had leather seats and cheezy aluminum trim rings though whupdefrikkindoo) :D
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Oh hell, Im not talking new - the 2000 S4's are in the $25,000 range. Whats a new STi run? Somewhere around $30K right?
Yeah that's about right.
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Audis are crap. I know someone whos parents died in an Audi from a minor collission. He took the insurance money and nows hes pimping in LA driving a Ferrari.
Funked, I always hear about your WRX. Advice, get a Shifter Kart and do some real racing.
:)
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Hey it was krautboy who brought up the WRX. :D
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SAABs are superb cars. Extremely well built and reliable, like Volvo before Ford bought them out.
Not my cup of tea though.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Hey it was krautboy who brought up the WRX. :D
Hehe, quiet rice-boy - Im just trying to make you feel better after your purchase is all. :D
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~hrellis/Porsche_files/image001.jpg)
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1987 900 Turbo running 20psi of boost and water/alcohol injection. I've surprised quite a few ricers :)
(http://www.kodae-arts.com/FDB/raub/saab.jpg)
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
1987 900 Turbo running 20psi of boost and water/alcohol injection. I've surprised quite a few ricers :)
(http://www.kodae-arts.com/FDB/raub/saab.jpg)
20 PSI!!! ADI!!! YOU SICK LITTLE MONKEY!!!
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Jeezuz...
And I thought I was crazy running 18 PSI in the 951.
Torque steer must be rediculous in that thing, no?
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I removed my motorcycle picture because I figured their arent many motorcycle enthusiasts here. Oh well, that Saab is front wheel drive? I think the engine is logitutionaly opposed (long hood) so it woudlnt suffer from torque steering like a Honda would. Left and right side drive shafts would be about even. But then logitutionaly opposed would mean its probably rear wheel drive (no torque steering under acceleration).
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Saabs are infamous for torquesteer... although Saab owners and the boys in Sweeden call it "Character."
:D
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Hehe, quiet rice-boy - Im just trying to make you feel better after your purchase is all. :D
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~hrellis/Porsche_files/image001.jpg)
Don't make me start with the Boxster S kill stories. :)
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I don't know if newer Swedish cars are built as well as the older ones, but in the past, when you bought a Saab or Volvo, you bought the safest car (in its size/class) and the most durable cars on the road (esp. Volvo.)
Historically, Volvo and Saab have invented more safety features than any other make (perhaps Mercedes ranks up there as well). Ever notice that whenever competitors talk about safety, they usually compare themselve's to Volvo? The Swedes have been making safety a priority, way before most makes ever dreamed of going beyond the bare minimum. Granted, a lot of other makes and models are now much safer than ever.
Durability is also a great reason to go Swedish.
I have two Volvos parked in the driveway. The 86 has 234K on it. I think the 82 might have about 350+ K (The OD is out, but the documentation that it had when I bought it several years ago indicated 350K). I neglect them and abuse them, change the oil and do mainatinence maybe once a year. The last Saab I had had over 200K on it. It gave me a bit of grief, but still ran, way past 200K.
One time I was playing around with a cars for sale search engine. There was (I think) about 1,500 cars for sale in a given area, only about 25 were Volvos. The search engine let you sort the cars by # of miles. If I recall, of the 12 cars (out of the whole lot) with over 200K on them, 7 were Volvos.
Sure, I've seen a few Subarus with over 200K on them, they are good cars. But Volvos consistanly hit, 2, 3, and 400K. Within the last year, a Volvo owner hit 2,000,000. World record for one owner. (1966 model P-1800)
eskimo
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BTW,
I've had 2 Saab 99s, and 2 900s. All of them had very noticable torque steer.
eskimo
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Oh yeah, you better have a tight grip on the wheel when it starts to spool up ;)
Hardest part is getting the power to the pavement....and keeping your gearbox from exploding. Gotta take it easy in 1st and 2nd. Stock clutches don't really care for it either. I've gone to one of the later 900 gearboxes and a 9000T clutch.
Running that boost is pretty safe because I still have the APC (Saab's turbo computer) active. It automatically drops boost back a bit when it senses engine knock (detonation). I have the timing set at 20 BTDC off boost and it retards to 10 BTDC at full boost. That combined with a Volvo 740 intercooler and the water injection pretty much limits chances of ping to 0.
I know folks who run more boost on the 900 btw. The engines are really fediddlein tough. One guy is running something like 311bhp (stock is 165).
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Oh yeah....
Funny you should say "Saabaru" Funky...
Saab is introducing a new AWD sport sedan in 2004......built by Fuji Industries :)
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(http://www.motortrend.com/motor/roadtests/coupe/112_0303_futgt_static_l.jpg)
Buy American.
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Funked - you go kill as many Boxsters as you like... Ill stick to killing Rex's... well... not anymore since I sold the waterpumper... but still. :D
Raub - rumor has it that Saab will be introcuing an AWD Viggen successor sporting a bi-turbo V6 and 350 HP.
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Just buy a 350z and be done with it LOL.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
Oh yeah....
Funny you should say "Saabaru" Funky...
Saab is introducing a new AWD sport sedan in 2004......built by Fuji Industries :)
RTFM you tard!!! I posted a link about that car. :D
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Raub - rumor has it that Saab will be introcuing an AWD Viggen successor sporting a bi-turbo V6 and 350 HP.
Hmm you sure it's not a biturbo H-6? Sounds an awful lot like the upcoming Legacy STi. Looks like Saab has become the new Geo.
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Originally posted by rc51
Just buy a 350z and be done with it LOL.
Not in a million years. Maybe an old 240... but a 350? Its a Maxima with a pointy hood.
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Yeah 350Z does not impress me at all. Not a hell of a lot of speed for the price and it's butt ugly.
Skyline GTR gives me major wood though. GOJIRA!!!
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Originally posted by funkedup
RTFM you tard!!! I posted a link about that car. :D
LOL :D I tend to avoid links...sorry :)
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I see plenty of 1970's SAABs and VOLVO's drivinng in Sweden.
Wold you rather buy a car from a company that makes cars and ...cars or from one that makes cars and COOL fighters?
Am a prop/jet-head, so the choice is made for me :D. Can see some overenthusiastic engineer saying 'hm, so how do we get the afterburner into THIS one?' :D
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If you are gonna spend that kinda money, get something that stands out from the crowd...
(http://www.oldwoodies.com/img/rv/redneck-rv.jpg)
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Shame they stopped making the Skyline GTR, one of my all time favourite cars.
I've come to the conclusion that the best Japanese sportscar is the Evo VII, although I don't know much about the Evo VIII.
They screwed the pooch on the Scooby styling with the round headlights and the new version doesn't make up for it (although the STi version isn't bad). I saw a Turbo 2000 Scooby in midnight blue with 17" gold spokes/silver rim alloys - only 3 years old and still looking hot.
Then I test drove a Mini Cooper S. Now that's a car - it's like a racing kart. Soooo much fun on around twisty roads and is very nippy too. The 6 speed box should have closer ratios though, but it's nice and smooth the way it is. Some people say the noise of the supercharger is annoying, but I loved it; I've always wanted a turbo or supercharger enhanced car.
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I have yet to drive a Mini - but Ive never heard a bad word about them.
Mini D - how much boost can the engine handle?
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No idea. I wouldn't be inclined to mess around with the engine other than maybe get the machine chipped.
I hate the original mini. Stupid death trap. But the new mini is not only very safe, but it looks the business too.
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I've seen a few of the SC mini's on the Autocross circut.. Their nice and sport.. handle great. But for the twisties Miata all the way hehe..
Next year mine will be Forced Induction....watch out Boxers. :D
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Blah FWD sucks. :)
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Yean can we say understeer... :D
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AWD suffers from understeer too.
If youre going to the track, RWD is the only way to go. :D
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COUGHbull****COUGH :D