Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wardog on October 22, 2000, 02:55:00 PM
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Heres your chance to pick the ride of your choice. Pyro has asked for imput in the Aircraft & Vehicles section.Your choices are..
P-47M
P-47N
P-51H
Fw 190D-9
Fw 190F-8
Ta 152H-1
Tempest V
Spitfire XIV
F4U-4
La-7
Yak-9UT
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000930.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000930.html)
Dog out......
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I'd like to see a Ta152C there instead of the H-1. A 152C should be way more playable in MA than a 152H. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
BTW please notice that you must put your choices IN ORDER of preference. So please BE SURE that you put the 190D9 the first (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-22-2000).]
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Doesn't this belong in the planes and vehicles forum?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Foul!!!
Vote padding!!!
A thread with this title linking to a thread that should be neutral is not right. I was wondering why the voting was so Luftwaffe centric.
Pyro, please delete this thread.
Sisu
-Karnak
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RAM Maybe because Ta 152H was put into production and was issued to a combat unit while Ta 152C was a prototype?
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H1 will be perk plane. C will be perk plane.
Given the perking for both as guaranteed, I'll vote for C anytime (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And remember that Ta152C wasnt flying from mid-1944 because RLM was a niche of stupids that denied Tank the engines to build prototypes...so well, was a prototype but could've been much more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
plus, is better plane for MA (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Only 2 Ta152Cs were completed. 150+ of the H series completed and saw action. If we're gonna start modelling prototypes, lets stick some P51Hs in here. 487MPH at 25,000ft.
That's what I thought.
-SW
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P51H is in wish list, SW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Actually, wasn't it about 45 H-0 that were produced, let alone saw action?
Ooh aah, 332mph at sea level. I'm in awe of it's supreme performance, LOL! Oh well, at least it can out-turn the Tempest...
You want a prototype, here's a prototype...
Hawker Fury
Powered by a 3055 hp Napier Sabre VII 24-cylinder horizontal-H liquid-cooled engine. Armed with four 20-mm Hispano Mk. V cannon plus two 1000-lb bombs. Maximum speed was 457 mph at 8000 feet, 485 mph at 18,500 feet. Range was 1480 miles with two 45 Imp gall drop tanks. Initial climb rate was 5240 ft/min. An altitude of 24,000 feet could be reached in 6 minutes. Service ceiling was 41,500 feet. Weights were 9350 pounds empty, 12,120 pounds loaded. Wing area was 284.5 square feet.
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-22-2000).]
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Originally posted by juzz:
Actually, wasn't it about 45 H-0 that were produced, let alone saw action?
Ooh aah, 332mph at sea level. I'm in awe of it's supreme performance, LOL! Oh well, at least it can out-turn the Tempest...
Sorry but there were around 150 produced however only 55-65 (depends on the source) saw action. Many were destroyed at airfields waiting on the pilots to take them to the operational units. As for it not out turning the Tempest.....wrong again. Go out on the web and look up Willi Reschke. You will find a PERSONAL account of his fight and subsequent kill of a Tempest at TREE TOP LEVEL. I think it is a very even account and you will find that he was a Ta-152H-1 driver in the Stabschwarm of JG 301. These were the best of JG 301 and JG 300 who were put into the Ta-152H-1 because they were the best. He described his fight against it as very even but found himself making ground on the Tempest he was flying against without pushing his plane to its limit or so he says. I don't have the link right now but you can find it with a minimum of searching.
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Maj. LJK_Reschke
Jagdbomber I-31, StaffelKapitaen JaboStaffel Ein
Kommandeur Jagdbomber, LuftJagerKorps
www.luftjagerkorps.com
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Reschke, SW, we've been through this before on the board, maybe before you guys were here. Vermillion has some pretty authoritative documentation on this. The lower figure is correct.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-23-2000).]
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Been through what? I only stated the C had 2 versions built. Neither armed, neither flew in combat. There were over 150 H models built.
-SW
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What I meant is that the factory records show that 45 H models built is a more accurate figure.
Here's the thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/003476.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/003476.html)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-23-2000).]
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Btw: P-51H was far from a prototype, 555 were produced before the war ended.
LJK_Reschke; why don't you go and read what I said about Ta 152H vs Tempest again...
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Originally posted by juzz:
Btw: P-51H was far from a prototype, 555 were produced before the war ended.
LJK_Reschke; why don't you go and read what I said about Ta 152H vs Tempest again...
Juzz;
Sorry I thought you wrote can out turn. I was on my way to bed and had my eyes playing tricks on me. Things like that can happen when you have had 3 hours of sleep in the last 36. I apologize m8.
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Maj. LJK_Reschke
Kommandeur Jagdbomber,
StaffelKapitaen I-31 LJK
www.luftjagerkorps.com
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Originally posted by funked:
What I meant is that the factory records show that 45 H models built is a more accurate figure.
(edited 10-23-2000).]
I have two sources showing 150+ built. Whether they were armed, had engines or even got off the factory lines before being destroyed or left to rot, I do not know.
-SW
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Sounds right SW. I don't know which stage of production Werknummern were assigned at, but the author of Verm's book purports to have tracked down the Werknummern of all the H's that were completed.
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what a hell is a Pony H >? and jug M ?
they need alwayes superior plane to kill Lw ?
and when we ask for dora to finaly much something up the actualy pony the y call us whiner (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
so what a hell is the pony H and JUG M ?
hope not a uber super nuklear misile armed ufos ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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No, Typhoon kill LW planes just nicely. We dont need no stinkin p51H (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Just more LW drivers,im running outa targets...
Dog out.
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GATT definitely lost his hope for a balanced plane set and good scenarios ...... I'm happy for all you strato-laser-lightspeed and "what-if" events guys.
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GATT
4° Stormo Caccia - Knights (http://www.4stormo.it)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 10-23-2000).]
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never mind
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-23-2000).]
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thx westy , for me the best WW2 plane is the tempest V i become Lw driver just about never got the tempest in Wb now i stick on hardly with 190 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) dora can finaly deal with other planes i just hope dora will be inaf Tricky to fly , if anly doras will see all around me that will p.s me realy off (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
tempest V will be a real danger for any plane, jsut plz remember tempest pilots Always loked to fight below 12-15 K so pork the plane inaf to not see him to furbal at 20 K like typhie now and made him excel below 15 k , becose Ah not have realistic weather conditions simulated the unrealistic 25 K pony bounce work , in real life if u high u fight high if u low u fight low planes defenitely Ah need some Fog thinky to limit visibility from 20k and above , dan 3 Km distance and moving low and deck in real life no chance to see anything , actualy i never saw (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
in WB the 110 was my prefered , it was ideal to kill Ho spits (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Gatt,
You're right. The Fw190F-8, Fw190D-9, La7, Spitfire MkXIV and Tempest MkV were all "what-if" aircraft that never saw sevice except in the closing few weeks of the war. And then only in numbers totaling less than 50 per type.
What were we thinking when we asked for these? I can't imagine. We know that the war was fought with Bf109E-3s, Bf110C-4s, Hurricane MkIs, Spitfire MkIs, D.520s, I-16s, A5Ms, P-40Bs and C.202s.
Why are we asking for post war aircraft?
Sisu
-Karnak
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Hi
Big "NO" vote for any plane that didnt see acutal combat! BTW if some of you are so confident of this 332mph figure, why do you want the Ta152 perked so bad??
thanks GRUNHERZ
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"Big "NO" vote for any plane that didnt see actual combat! "
Baloney. Utter clap trap. That would mean that anything Frans Gruber and Sayonara Sam could glue, rivet or tie together and push/pull/shove out a hangar door in 1944-45 was "in combat."
There's little difference between a P-51H flying in the skies of Ohio on the same day as a TA-152 flies over Berlin.
-Westy
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Gatt,
You're right. The Fw190F-8, Fw190D-9, La7, Spitfire MkXIV and Tempest MkV were all "what-if" aircraft that never saw sevice except in the closing few weeks of the war. And then only in numbers totaling less than 50 per type.
What were we thinking when we asked for these? I can't imagine. We know that the war was fought with Bf109E-3s, Bf110C-4s, Hurricane MkIs, Spitfire MkIs, D.520s, I-16s, A5Ms, P-40Bs and C.202s.
Why are we asking for post war aircraft?
Karnak, you know well that my post is not about production numbers and prototypes. I dont care. I could not care less. My point is: model late-late war aircraft and you'll not be able to design historically accurate and balanced scenarios. Late-late war kites are for Main Arena players, you know what I mean, dont you? With those beautiful, fast, heavily armed kites you'll not be able to design a balanced scenario simply becouse late war is not balanced and is all a "what-if" environment. And, IMHO, these kind of online sims survive only with good scenarios. Only my 2 (weak) Euros.
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minus;
The P-51H was the "ultimate" development of the Mustang - lighter and more powerful, with better visibility over the nose. Top speed was 487mph at 25,000ft. I don't think they ever saw any combat - even post-war, since the USAF used the stronger P-51D in Korea.
The P-47M was built to chase down German V-1's and jets in the ETO. It had a 2800HP engine, giving a top speed of 470mph at 30,000ft.
The P-47N was a long-range Thunderbolt for the PTO, with the same engine. It had a redesigned wing with integral fuel tanks. Top speed was 460mph at 30,000ft. Both of these planes saw combat in the last year of WW2.
GRUNHERZ; I wouldn't care if the Ta 152H-1 was an everyday arena plane, but because it had such a limited availability during WW2 compared to other Fw 190 types, it should be "perked" to restrict numbers in the arena. The F4U-1C and Ostwind should be similarly restricted, as they are equally unrepresentative of their kind.
Hey gatt, don't worry - once HTC have modelled all these "uberplanes", put up with 6 months of whining from Luftwhiners when they find out the Allied planes in AH are still "better" - then they might move on to early-war times when Axis planes were well-known to be "better" than the Allies'. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Originally posted by juzz:
minus;
Hey gatt, don't worry - once HTC have modelled all these "uberplanes", put up with 6 months of whining from Luftwhiners when they find out the Allied planes in AH are still "better" - then they might move on to early-war times when Axis planes were well-known to be "better" than the Allies'. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-24-2000).]
262 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Hristo:
262 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
229 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by gatt:
Karnak, you know well that my post is not about production numbers and prototypes. I dont care. I could not care less. My point is: model late-late war aircraft and you'll not be able to design historically accurate and balanced scenarios. Late-late war kites are for Main Arena players, you know what I mean, dont you? With those beautiful, fast, heavily armed kites you'll not be able to design a balanced scenario simply becouse late war is not balanced and is all a "what-if" environment. And, IMHO, these kind of online sims survive only with good scenarios. Only my 2 (weak) Euros.
You fly only scenarios? maybe you yes, but the major part of HTC's customers, don't (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
And BTW, with Fw190D9, F8s and SpitXIV we can do finally some real NICE Bodenplatte scenarios (given a snowy terrain (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)),as the rest of the latewar planeset is ALREADY HERE...(P47D/30,109G10, P51D...)..you get the HINT?
If you are so worried about latewar uberplanes I dont know why have I heard you ask for a Re2005...or why do you have a C205...you can't put many early war scenarios with them, true?...then why don't you whined and asked it to be replaced for a C200 when pyro announced the C205, Gatt?...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
I'll tell you what happens with you, gatt,and with all italian customers in AH. You have the plane that was the zenith of Italian air design in WWII, the C205. And as there is NOTHIGN better than that done by italians, and you want to fly more italian planes, then you wat to go BACK in time and get the previous planes.
Of course you know that there wont be many chances to fly them in MA because a CR42 or a C200 will be eaten alive by Chogs...and you wont have many early war scenarios as,so far, there aren't many early war fighters either...
Still you want more italian planes. And to fly in them with more than 5 minute of expectative of life. I understand it,but so far HTC's plans seem to be different.
Sorry man you have your state-of-the-art italian plane, the C205. You have a midwar plane, the C202.
Even you have the last plane used by Italian squadrons in the last days of WWII, the 109G10 (K4)!!!!.
Regarding fighters you have ALL the fighters that italians used from mid-1942 onwards. You lack bombers, true. But it wont be long before a SM79 is here, I'm sure about it.
Most people here (british and LW nuts mostly), haven't that luxury. So now be cool and not egoist, and let the people who is flying early 1943 planes (190A5 and Spit IX) or bomber hunter heavyweights (190A8) get planes that we can use in Main Arena, ok?. After it you can go all the back you want.
Think a bit in the rest of the people. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Dear RAM, you are absolutely wrong.
MC 205V is a early 1943 plane, like spitIX and 190A5, not a 1945 monster.
Maybe the Fiat G.55 will be a better choise to represent the top, or the Re.2005, but they are still 1943 planes !!!
But if you want to play in MA with quake BFG9000 armed US Irons, ask for it.
It's you right, the same right others have to ask more balancing planes.
Or maybe is time to talk about the Me-262?
Bring it here and we luftlobby whiners will fight our fight in the boring quakeMA.
But you can imagine the WHINE the UScustomers will start?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
Go on with your HOs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(oh my, the Reinfield virus has infected me, help!!) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Regarding fighters you have ALL the fighters that italians used from mid-1942 onwards.
Hmmm, C.205 and Me 109G/K is all the Italians used from '42 on? You missed the Spitfire Mk V, which is also here. And missed by both you and from AH are:
G.55
Re.2005
P-39N/Q
D.520
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Naso...they are 1943 planes? really?...
so?. It was one of the last italian fighters designed. Was one of the last designs that saw combat. Was the ultimate ITALIAN DESIGNED combat fighter of WWII.
I wont lose time answering to the rest of that post. It isnt worth it.
Originally posted by juzz:
Hmmm, C.205 and Me 109G/K is all the Italians used from '42 on? You missed the Spitfire Mk V, which is also here. And missed by both you and from AH are:
G.55
Re.2005
P-39N/Q
D.520
Only G.55 and Re 2005. I was talking about the Germany allied italian side, not the italian pro-allied side.
And C205 is better than 2005, and more than a match for G55.
Thing is, we will lack D12 too. We wont have D13 neither, we will have 190D9 and that is enough for us LW pilots. So Italians have C205, and will get G55 (I'm sure of it).
And I dont mind that C205 was a 1943 design. Was the ultimate ,one of (If not THE) best planes designed in italy during WWII. And here it is.
For the italian guys here: sorry if I sound harsh, but it is clear that you have a plane that is a really wonder to fly, the C205, and that can match the best of the best in AH. IF you had to fly all day in 190A5 and/or 190A8, you'd think quite different.
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RAM,
read my post again, slowly. I didnt ask for ANY italian fighter or bomber. I'm fully aware that we italian are lucky to have 1941-45 covered with the C.202 and C.205, and that the C.205 is a good mid-late war example of italian industry.
I simply stated that this late-late war rush (IMHO) simply feeds the Main Arena guys and wont allow for balanced scenarios.
Look, I've been flying Warbirds for three years, attending all scenarios where Luftwaffe was involved. I can assure you that you'll be cannon fodder in almost all 1944-45 scenarios.
I say it again: I'm happy for you Main Arena and "what-if" scenarios guys. What else can I say for people crying for TA-152 and P-47M? And you complain about C-Hogs. C'mon RAM! If you ask for D-12 or TA-152 you deserve not only C-hogs but even cannon armed F4-U4.
1941-43 is the best phase of the war, the most balanced, the most interesting, both for the arena and the scenarios. But, again its only my opinion. No offence for anyone.
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Originally posted by RAM:
Naso...
(CUT)
I wont lose time answering to the rest of that post. It isnt worth it.
(RICUT)
For the italian guys here: sorry if I sound harsh, but it is clear that you have a plane that is a really wonder to fly, the C205, and that can match the best of the best in AH. IF you had to fly all day in 190A5 and/or 190A8, you'd think quite different.
Definitively must be the R. disease, i am quarrelling with RAM !! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Take it easy RAM, i was joking.
RAM, i usually fly everythink in the planeset, and i agree with you: the 190s suck.
Look at my vote in pyro's poll.
But i am still worried of this rush for the uber ride.
At the end of the war the Germans were pushing the limit, while allied were producing better and better planes (and in BIG numbers, too!!), the result we will have in MA will be Me-262s (i love it!!), and all the quasi jet last US fighters.
Fun for USiron lover, and me262 lover (like me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)), boring for the others.
But, such is life. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)