Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: TimRas on April 17, 2003, 09:47:09 AM

Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: TimRas on April 17, 2003, 09:47:09 AM
I have made some tests offline to determine the sustained turning performance of some fighters. My original purpose was to measure turning rates of the current German-Soviet planeset in the CT arena. Then I decided to get also the results of some of the more popular planes in MA.

Testing procedure: Planes were at sea level, speed about 200mph indicated. Turn was initiated, and after one full turn the timing was started. Time of 6-9 full 360 deg. turns was measured, and the average sustained turn rate in degrees/second was calculated. Planes had 50% fuel, except for the P-51D where 25% gives about same endurance.

In N1K-J, P-51D, and F4U-1C two notches of flaps was used, although I didn't determine the optimum flap settings for these planes.

I used stall delimiter to get more consistent results. The effect of switching off stall delimiter in La-7 was 0.5 dps increase in turning rate. I tested also the effect of full fuel tanks, the reduction in La-7 was 1.2dps.
 

[LIST=1]
  • N1K-J.......26.3dps
  • Spit IX.....25.5
  • Bf 109F-4...20.2
  • La-7........19.9
  • La-5FN......19.7
  • Bf 109G-2...19.5
  • Yak9-U......18.9
  • Bf 109G-10..18.8
  • P-51D.......18.1
  • Typhoon.....18.0
  • Fw190A-5....17.4
  • F4U-1C......17.4
  • Fw190A-8....16.1
    • [/LIST=1]
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: Urchin on April 17, 2003, 01:01:45 PM
Matches up pretty close to my non-testing experience.

I will say that the P-51 should be turning better than that though, I'm not sure what the best turn speed is for it but with flaps down it'll out turn a 109G2 and an La-7.
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: Furball on April 17, 2003, 01:59:10 PM
depends on pilot ability urchin, all the p51's i meet i can outturn in my la7. but im sure you could outturn me in it.  For an average pilot i would say they can turn an la7 much faster than p51 at those speeds

would like to see some high speed results, i find f4u very manouverable at high speed.
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: dtango on April 17, 2003, 06:04:16 PM
Co-E and below 10K alt, I've never been able to outturn an La-7 in a P-51D even with 2 notches flaps, especially in a sustained turn.  

Maybe it's me but having done some E-M analysis on these 2 a/c specifically I'm not surprised at all at the results.  Instantaneous turn performance, the P-51D may get close to the La-7 using flaps, but it's no question when it comes to sustained turn performance since the La-7 has a signifcant T/W advantage over the P-51D.

Of course I haven't done E-M analysis with really disporportionate diffferences in fuel load / weight such as having the P-51D with 25% or less fuel and the La-7 at near 100% fuel for instance.  Weight is a huge contributor in impacting turn performance.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: Kweassa on April 17, 2003, 06:26:50 PM
Looks right, but in my case I'm surprised by the G-2 and the La-7. I always thought the La-7 was a bit poorer, and the G-2 was a bit better. Guess I'll have to rethink it in the future
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: Karnak on April 17, 2003, 06:59:05 PM
I have on multiple occasions out turned P-51s in my Mossie.  I have never out turned an La-7 in my Mossie.
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: Kweassa on April 17, 2003, 07:24:40 PM
Right.

 I always thought that La-7s were initially poor turners, sucking in sustained turns... and only with some speed that they can maintain a good turn.

 But compared with the F-4, which boasts a very good turn capability(barring the exceptional turn fighters like the Spits, N1Ks and Zeros, Hurricanes... ), I don't think there's anyway that the La-7 can be considered even 'average'.. It's a fairly good turner...!
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: J_A_B on April 17, 2003, 09:56:45 PM
Remember that chart shows only turn rate and not radius.  If the radius is small enough, a slower plane can still get inside a faster one which is how P-51D's occasionally out-turn LA7's.

J_A_B
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: TheManx on April 17, 2003, 11:56:38 PM
I almost always outturn La7's in both P51's and Mossies.
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on April 18, 2003, 03:28:14 AM
What a crap P38 outturns em all with one hand free to drink beer while killing the poor dweebs.
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: OIO on April 18, 2003, 10:08:47 AM
Bug, not everyone knows to lower the throttle on the engine that you're turning on...

now shut up and stop giving away our secrets. Sheesh.! :p :D
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: F4UDOA on April 18, 2003, 10:56:30 AM
Those turn rates are porked if they are right.

In AFDU test the Typh can't outturn a P-47 much less a FW190.

And the 190 can't turn with a P-51 that can't stay with an F4U.

WTF
Title: In AFDU test the Typh can't outturn a P-47 much less a FW190
Post by: Neil Stirling1 on April 18, 2003, 11:10:08 AM
At 20 000ft.

Neil.
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: F4UDOA on April 18, 2003, 11:19:53 AM
FYI,

(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/F4UG.jpg)

I have some others I can paste for verification. If you have one just make sure the weights are listed otherwise the chart is no good.

140Knots = 161MPH at 12,000LBS 3G's Kapish?
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: Kweassa on April 18, 2003, 11:02:14 PM
I always knew Typhs and Temps turn too good!! :D

Pork them!
Title: Sustained turning rate test results
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on April 18, 2003, 11:43:15 PM
Hey OIO
when do u get back to TED and as Tac?

I miss that guy.