Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Staga on April 18, 2003, 11:30:50 AM
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Now all they need is blue helmets :)
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/international/worldspecial/18OPS.html
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post a copy of it, those bozos want you to pay to read their garbage ;)
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Trained for War, 12 Green Berets Keep the Peace in an Iraqi Town
By JAMES DAO
IWANIYA, Iraq, April 17 — They were trained in the art of war and came to Iraq to fight. But now that the regime has been toppled, Army Special Forces soldiers in Diwaniya have found themselves on an entirely different and, in many ways, more difficult mission.
They are trying to rebuild the city.
It is a battle against chaos instead of bullets. The Green Berets have had to wade into angry crowds. They have mediated between rival tribes locked in blood feuds. They have tried to hold together the city's thin threads of social order, not always with success.
Today, a man was killed when the bodyguards of a sheik from another city fired into a crowd of 200 men who were protesting the sheik's presence at a community meeting. Soldiers arrested 16 of the bodyguards and detained the sheik, drawing loud applause from the crowd. But it was a setback for the team, which had worked closely with the sheik, a leader of the Jabour tribe.
"Just when things looked like they were going good, we have a power struggle in town," said the Special Forces team leader, a 32-year-old captain. Rules imposed by the military bar identification of the leader, or any members of his team.
There is a crisis like this almost every day. The team has become the de facto center of Diwaniya's government, which has all but ceased to function. It is a role the Green Berets have played before, in villages and towns in Vietnam and elsewhere.
Each morning, tribal leaders, businessmen and regular citizens in Diwaniya stream into the compound to complain about the spotty electricity, the rampant looting, the lack of jobs and commerce. They come because several of the Green Berets speak Arabic, though none are fluent. But they come also because there is nowhere else to turn.
The 12-man team is doing what it can. In the last week, it has started a police force, recruited a city manager, located offices for a municipal government and begun holding meetings where community leaders discuss Diwaniya's problems. The goal is to create an administrative council consisting of tribal leaders, government bureaucrats and academics that can take control of Diwaniya, a city of more than 400,000 people 120 miles south of Baghdad.
"Ten days ago, we were taking mortar fire at a bridge outside town," said the team sergeant, a 12-year Special Forces veteran who has become a favorite of the locals. "Who would have guessed we would have come this far? Each day is a baby step forward."
But the problems facing Diwaniya are immense. Though it was not a major battleground and not severely damaged by American bombs, Diwaniya has ground to a halt. Businessmen have kept their shops shuttered. Government workers are staying home. The sewer treatment plant is not operating. Fuel supplies are low. Television and radio are silent. Only the phones seem to work.
After decades of having their lives directed by an iron-fisted government, many Iraqis, including some of Diwaniya's most prominent families, do not seem ready to take control of their city's destiny.
"The Iraqis want us to secure every business, turn on every light, solve all their problems," the team leader said. "But I tell them: `We are only 12. You must start to do it yourselves.' "
One thing has made their work easier: the city has welcomed them as heroes. Working with the leaders of three major tribes and a former Iraqi Army colonel who defected before the war, the Green Berets were able to pinpoint fedayeen and Baath Party headquarters inside Diwaniya and the nearby town of Hamza.
During 24 hours of airstrikes that started on April 8, American warplanes obliterated nine targets with satellite-guided 500-pound bombs, including a building where more than a dozen Baath officials were meeting.
Unlike other southern Iraqi cities where the paramilitaries stood and fought, in Diwaniya they turned and fled, or melted back into the populace. On April 10, the tribal sheiks led a parade of their own fighters, accompanied by the Green Berets and a squad of marines, into Hamza and Diwaniya. Over loudspeakers, the opposition leaders declared the cities free and the Americans their friends.
Within minutes, hundreds, perhaps thousands of people poured into the streets. They hung from windows and rooftops shouting "welcome" and "Bush good." They wept and kissed the soldiers' hands.
"It was the most gratifying day in my career," the team sergeant said.
Then the hard part began.
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So you don't respect the other soldiers?
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Not sure what this is about, but I read of soldiers giving people money out of their own pocket.
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Let's just say I respect some of them more than others.
oh and it has nothing to do with nationality; when I was doing my time in our army I did broke couple noses (one MP and one corporal) but I also gave some help to old Suez veteran :)
You know, I've always had problems with guys with "respect my authority" and small balls :D
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btw here's the second part:
"The team's first priority was security. Looters roamed free, stripping government offices, warehouses and universities of everything down to the ceiling tiles and water pipes. Even bath tubs were not spared.
Following classic Special Forces doctrine, the team began organizing a municipal police force to patrol the streets and enforce a curfew. The sheiks provided the recruits, and the Americans provided rifles and green arm bands in lieu of uniforms.
Many of the recruits were teenagers with only wisps of facial hair and no experience with guns. On the first day, eight of the 50 recruits quit. On the third day, five of them shot at an American Army patrol they mistook for looters. They were handcuffed and disarmed, barely escaping with their lives.
Nervous and trigger-happy, the police recruits often call the Green Berets for backup. On Tuesday, the soldiers answered one of those calls to find a group of officers encircled by a mob of fist-pumping men outside one of the city's five banks.
"Ali Babba!" the mob shouted at the police officers, accusing them of being Baathists who were planning to loot the vault.
A leader of the police force urged the Special Forces team to shoot over the heads of the mob and arrest its leaders. But the team sergeant counseled calm.
Flashing a toothy smile and speaking in Arabic, the sergeant waded into the throng, imploring people to go home. "Bad things happen when so many people come together," he told them.
The crowd fell back for a few minutes, but then began inching forward menacingly. Suddenly, the sergeant leaped onto his Humvee and swung a .50-caliber machine gun — until then unmanned — toward the crowd. People ran screaming. The threat of a riot seemed to pass.
After a 90-minute standoff, a security detail from the 82nd Airborne arrived to replace the police officers outside the bank. When the Special Forces soldiers mounted their Humvees to depart, the crowd cheered and flashed thumbs up.
"It's crazy, isn't it?" the team sergeant said. "The only ones they consider honest brokers are the Americans."
Now the Green Berets are trying to convince the Iraqis they can run the city by themselves.
The soldiers have asked a former professor at the medical college who speaks excellent English to serve as the town manager. They have also tried to organize a governing council of former city bureaucrats and tribal leaders. But as today's near-riot outside the town hall meeting demonstrated, some people in the city are objecting to the Americans' selection of council members.
The Green Berets say that former Baath Party officials in Diwaniya may be trying to inflame passions against the sheiks who have helped the American forces. But they acknowledge that they are wading into tribal rivalries that have no easy solutions, and have asked tribal and religious leaders from Diwaniya to attend the next council meeting.
"I understand you want the people of Diwaniya to be responsible for Diwaniya," the team sergeant told one of the protesters today. "But we can't do everything in one day. If we left now, you'd kill each other. For 35 years, you've had a chance to get it right. Give us a month."
In their spare time, the Green Berets share stories about their girlfriends and wives, their motorcycles and trucks. They talk about past wars: Kosovo, Somalia and Afghanistan. Almost all have won Bronze Stars for exceptional deeds in battle.
But there are no medals or commendations for rebuilding cities, they note with dismay. And although several soldiers said Diwaniya has been one of the most satisfying experiences of their careers, they also express frustration with the tedium of reconstruction. This is not what we do, they often mutter.
"Big green rolls through," said the assistant operations sergeant, referring to the Third Infantry Division, which raced north to Baghdad. "And we get left with this."
Nongovernmental aid groups, Army Civil Affairs teams and the United States Agency for International Development will arrive in Diwaniya to oversee larger-scale reconstruction projects. But that could be weeks, even months away.
"We train to take down governments, but I've never been schooled in building one back up," the captain who leads the team said. "This is new territory."
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Those Green Berets are some very smart guys for sure. They would be top-tier professionals in any field.
Charon
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Are Green Berets the same as Delta Force?
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delta force is very select group of green beret who specialized at first in ct operations now they do more. selection is very tough but they get access to a ton of cool schools because they tier 1 unit. there are several tier 1 units among government and military. for example tier 1 unit you go to secret service school for bodyguard training. tier 2 unit you go to private school run by former secret service agents. if you in sfod delta you are experienced green beret with good reputation as an operator and you passed some really tough screening. groups like sfod delta dont have applicants really. they scout and recruit members who are already wearing green beret from usasf groups. green beret not in sfod delta are still special operations operators and are very rigidly screened selected trained. and also there are some great operators in usasf groups who not in sfod delta because they simply dont want to be.
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Originally posted by davidpt40
Are Green Berets the same as Delta Force?
No
Delta force draws it's people from special forces (green berets)
marine recon navy seals and army rangers
and some air force special units as well.
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David
No Green berets are not Delta.. not even close.
Green berets go and train people to rebel in their own country, and some other things.
Delta is all about Counter terror.
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Originally posted by anonymous
delta force is very select group of green beret who specialized at first in ct operations now they do more. selection is very tough but they get access to a ton of cool schools because they tier 1 unit. there are several tier 1 units among government and military. for example tier 1 unit you go to secret service school for bodyguard training. tier 2 unit you go to private school run by former secret service agents. if you in sfod delta you are experienced green beret with good reputation as an operator and you passed some really tough screening. groups like sfod delta dont have applicants really. they scout and recruit members who are already wearing green beret from usasf groups. green beret not in sfod delta are still special operations operators and are very rigidly screened selected trained. and also there are some great operators in usasf groups who not in sfod delta because they simply dont want to be.
Green berets are Us Army.
Delta draws from all branches of the armed forces.
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Originally posted by rc51
Green berets are Us Army.
Delta draws from all branches of the armed forces.
sfod delta is us army unit dude. members of unit are almost all from usasf.
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Can you recomend any good books on delta?
I had never heard you could join from any service.
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Originally posted by anonymous
sfod delta is us army unit dude. members of unit are almost all from usasf.
Dude I was 11b b4 75inf
I think I would know what and who the delta force is.
Like I said they Draw there personnel from all branches of the armed forces.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
David
No Green berets are not Delta.. not even close.
Green berets go and train people to rebel in their own country, and some other things.
Delta is all about Counter terror.
this is kind of incorrect info that is kind of insult to green beret not in sfod delta. sfod delta is made up of green beret mostly. they get more training in specific skills. green beret are close to sfod delta. all green beret train for ct. delta train for ct and certain other missions all the time. green beret have other mission to train for so they have limited time to train per mission. you ask a delta operator if hes a green beret hell say yes.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Can you recomend any good books on delta?
I had never heard you could join from any service.
very little is really known about the Delta Force.
The Pentagon likes it that way LOL.
You really dont join them they pick you.
My guess would be be a first class special forces operator for a couple of tours and they might take notice of you.
You would need some college and be highly motivated.
They are very bright fellas.
Although I have never met a Delta Force Dude.
I have known many SOG members and they are sharp as a tack.
They used to tell Rangers you guys are sledge hammers and we are the scalpels LOL.
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Originally posted by rc51
Dude I was 11b b4 75inf
I think I would know what and who the delta force is.
Like I said they Draw there personnel from all branches of the armed forces.
misunderstanding dude i thought you were saying they werent us army. as for personnel from all branches yes but almost all are green berets. ive worked with them before and i still go train with guys from delta at least once sometimes twice a year. hats off to you for ranger qualification by the way. whyd you get out?
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1980
Never got tabbed i was a sniper attached to the 75inf.
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Originally posted by rc51
1980
Never got tabbed i was a sniper attached to the 75inf.
ok that date alone explains some things. sfod delta was pretty young back then so probably way more free form if you know what i mean. selection and stuff for them is much more established now and that isnt always a good thing in my opinion. your timeframe and mine differences are like talking about difference between ST-1 in VN and ST-1 in mid 1990s name the same lots of other things very different. i didnt have any contact with sfod delta until early 1990s. what was your weapon when acting as sniper back then?
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I used 2
First was issued m-21
Then was winchester model 70 300win mag.
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You DO NOT have to be SF to join Delta. You do have to be invited to attend their assessment and selection course. You do not have to have any prior Special Forces, infantry, or other combat arms experience to be invited. Their primary initial screening criteria is a certain score on the ASVAB test that everyone takes prior to enlisting. They then screen further using other criteria.
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Staga, you would have liked a documentary show that was on US TV until Iraq took the spotlight away. It was called "Stories from the Front" or something like that, and each show covered a day of activity for two SF teams in Afghanistan, doing the same stuff as the guys in the link you posted. Hopefully they will put it back on the air.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
You DO NOT have to be SF to join Delta. You do have to be invited to attend their assessment and selection course. You do not have to have any prior Special Forces, infantry, or other combat arms experience to be invited. Their primary initial screening criteria is a certain score on the ASVAB test that everyone takes prior to enlisting. They then screen further using other criteria.
hey i believe you. im just saying that from my experience of working and training with them every single delta guy ive ever run into was a green beret. im thinking that the type of selection you are talking about would be for very niche type assignments. if youre one of their shooters id say odds are you came from the typical infantry then ranger then sf background. the screening im talking about is very special operations oriented. shooting and brutal landnav course and such. thats the screening the delta guys ive talked to told me about when they were in sf group and were invited to screen for delta. i mean when they formed the unit it was to have a group of ct specialists. the actual unit name was first special forces operational detachment delta.
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Their primary initial screening criteria is a certain score on the ASVAB test that everyone takes prior to enlisting. They then screen further using other criteria.
Sorry man but you have been reading to many Tom Clancy books.
Delta Force Is not listed as an MOS.
And getting a good score on asvab won't get you a shot at Delta.
I scored High enough for every thing the Army offerd including OCS.
And I never heard of Delta Force Till I was deep In AIT.
LOL Thats a classic.
Oh Sgt recruiter iwant to be Delta Force.I wonder how many times they hear than in a day?
Now times Have changes since i was in so maybe the program is different now.
I don't kknow the correct numbers but damn few make it threw the selection process.
Like i said you don't pick the job the job picks you.
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Originally posted by Staga
Let's just say I respect some of them more than others.
oh and it has nothing to do with nationality; when I was doing my time in our army I did broke couple noses (one MP)
I am a MP in the US Army, I am not sure how they do things over there, but you hit an MP in our military..... man.... I can almost hear the bones crunch. That would have been a one way ticket to "asskickin land" Whats worse, we would have cuffed you first. :cool:
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I was on a weekend vacation and that MP thought (after couple drinks) that he was a tough guy.
We knew same folks and guess he thought it would be easier for him to just forget what happened that night ;)
Anyway at that time I enjoyed good fights but I had to change my attitude after getting broken bones. I was smacking a guy in the terrace when couple of his friends came up and dropped me down (~1,5-2meters).
Pretty rough landing, Shoulder (Clavicula) hit the ground first and results can still be seen on X-ray pics :D
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Originally posted by rc51
Sorry man but you have been reading to many Tom Clancy books.
Delta Force Is not listed as an MOS.
And getting a good score on asvab won't get you a shot at Delta.
I scored High enough for every thing the Army offerd including OCS.
And I never heard of Delta Force Till I was deep In AIT.
LOL Thats a classic.
Oh Sgt recruiter iwant to be Delta Force.I wonder how many times they hear than in a day?
Now times Have changes since i was in so maybe the program is different now.
I don't kknow the correct numbers but damn few make it threw the selection process.
Like i said you don't pick the job the job picks you.
Just FYI....I am currently a SSG in the United States Army. I've been serving for 13 years now. I think my knowledge is a little more current and accurate than your 4 years of service 25 years ago. I have been invited to 3 Delta briefings and attended one last November. The primary criteria they use when screening personnel is the GT score from the ASVAB. You will only get an invite if you are E-5 or above and your GT score is above a certain number (don't recall how high). 1980 was a long time ago dude, get over yourself.
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I was in 23 years ago!!
back when men where men and the sheep ran fast!
So what you out rank me I was onlt e-5 LOL.
Hell back when i was in you had to run in boots no tennis shoes.
And they even had steel pots.
Ps the drill SGTS in basic could slap the crap out of you as well.
Today I hear you get a motivational speech.
Hell I never even saw a Delta operater.
But then again they where new back then .
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And as we see from recent operations our service is more lethal than ever. We must be doing something right.
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true.
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Originally posted by rc51
true.
And as we see from recent operations our service is more lethal than ever. We must be doing something right.
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Not to get between you bad bellybutton army doods but did yall just
like
kiss and make up?